Speaker 1: YIELDA.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. A battle
Speaker 2: is underway for the future of one of New Zealand's
Speaker 2: biggest media companies. Auckland based Canadian billionaire Jim Grennan has
Speaker 2: in the last fortnight emerged as one of the biggest
Speaker 2: shareholders in enzed Me, the owner of the enzed Herald,
Speaker 2: newstalk ZEDB and many music radio stations, and next month
Speaker 2: he hopes to vote out the company's current board members
Speaker 2: and install himself and three others at the company's shareholder meeting.
Speaker 2: It's the latest bit of turmoil to hit the media
Speaker 2: sector in this country, with nearly every major media company
Speaker 2: seeing upheaval to some degree over.
Speaker 3: The last twelve months.
Speaker 2: Today on the Front Page, we're joined by media insider
Speaker 2: Shane Curry to discuss what Grennan wants endzed Me and
Speaker 2: if the sector is any closer to stability.
Speaker 3: So, Shane, let's start with the big one. Who exactly
Speaker 3: is Jim Grennan and how did he make his wealth
Speaker 3: and why is he now living in New Zealand. I've
Speaker 3: got so many questions.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Jim Grennan a little bit of a mystery man
Speaker 4: in some ways. And in fact I've asked several times
Speaker 4: for an interview with mister Grennan and he has said
Speaker 4: he will talk at some stage. But he what we
Speaker 4: know of him, He is a Canadian billionaire, made his
Speaker 4: money through private equity and investing in other businesses. Moved
Speaker 4: here in twenty twelve and as a Kiwi as a
Speaker 4: Kiwi resident, lives in Takapuna, and has very much come
Speaker 4: to the four obviously in recent weeks in terms of
Speaker 4: his shareholding and ended me and his intentions to become
Speaker 4: an endy Me board member.
Speaker 3: So Grennan founded his own media brands since moving here,
Speaker 3: New Zealand News and Essentials and The Centrist. What do
Speaker 3: we know about his motivation to start those brands?
Speaker 4: So he has put out several statements in the last
Speaker 4: few weeks just in terms of media inquiries, talked a
Speaker 4: little bit about this centriest and The Centrist itself is
Speaker 4: basically an aggregation site if you like, and he has
Speaker 4: said that he introduced that by means of bringing more
Speaker 4: to the everyday discussion. I guess in the news media
Speaker 4: kind of environment, he felt that there were stories that
Speaker 4: weren't getting or seeing the light of day. They do
Speaker 4: employ some journalists to write stories specifically for the website,
Speaker 4: but other stories they point to, For instance, they will
Speaker 4: point to stories on the Herald or to other news websites,
Speaker 4: and so it's a little bit of an aggregation site
Speaker 4: as well as having its own unique content. But he
Speaker 4: felt a bit like the platform, I guess in terms
Speaker 4: of the audio sense that there was a conversation missing
Speaker 4: on some topics and some political stances. I guess as well.
Speaker 3: So Grennan has sent you a statement that editorial content
Speaker 3: is a side issue, but the quality of journalism impacts
Speaker 3: of the business, that he wants to improve the quality
Speaker 3: of journalism, including through training to advanced staff skills, and
Speaker 3: that he wants a new editorial board with representation from
Speaker 3: both sides of the spectrum. What do you make of
Speaker 3: all that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think if we just take a step back
Speaker 4: a little bit, Chelsea is obviously you know, he is
Speaker 4: aiming to have a seat on the board of ensied
Speaker 4: me along with three other nominees, and we have another shareholder,
Speaker 4: Osbian Partners, who have put forward their own two nominations.
Speaker 4: Now at the moment, what we don't know is the
Speaker 4: details of a letter that mister Greennan has written to
Speaker 4: ensed Me outlining some of what he sees as operational
Speaker 4: and governance concerns. And so I've been requesting that letter
Speaker 4: from both enzied Me and mister Grennan's group. So far
Speaker 4: it hasn't been released. I do expect it will be
Speaker 4: released at some stage ahead of the annual shareholders meeting,
Speaker 4: and in that will get a sense of really the
Speaker 4: editorial I guess, I guess endeavor that mister Grennan is
Speaker 4: talking about here. But on the face of it, you know,
Speaker 4: he's made some comments that should give cheer to the
Speaker 4: Enzbing newsroom in the sense of, you know, wanting to
Speaker 4: uphold and uplift the quality of journalism, maintaining standards and
Speaker 4: building standards. But I guess the devil is in the
Speaker 4: detail in terms of just what that specifically means. And
Speaker 4: of course, when he talks about an emphasis on factual accuracy,
Speaker 4: the newsroom will say, yes, that there's a big focus
Speaker 4: for us at all times less selling of the writer's opinion.
Speaker 4: He's also said that, and that's a discussion that comes
Speaker 4: up quite a bit in terms of differentiating opinion from
Speaker 4: actual news stories. And you know enz ME is said
Speaker 4: in the past, you know, it's making efforts to make
Speaker 4: that emphasis on factual stories versus opinion a lot more differentiated.
Speaker 4: I guess, make it much more clearer to readers just
Speaker 4: when they're reading commentary and opinion versus a straight news story.
Speaker 4: And so I think, you know, he's totally in line
Speaker 4: with what the company has been trying to do and
Speaker 4: then appealing to a wider political spectrum. I guess that
Speaker 4: again comes back to some of the points he was
Speaker 4: making around setting up the centrist you know, that free
Speaker 4: flow of information and ideas that there is a broad
Speaker 4: church of content, which you know, mass media organizations will
Speaker 4: argue that they are already in that ballpark.
Speaker 1: Well, as you can imagine, this is a significant interest
Speaker 1: to our members. So are many of the journalists at
Speaker 1: NZDME and as the union who represents them. We're working
Speaker 1: through this issue with them, and I think it's fair
Speaker 1: to say that the primary primary concern here is to
Speaker 1: ensure that journalists are able to continue doing their job
Speaker 1: with genuine editorial independence, without fear or favor. And the
Speaker 1: concern here is that we clearly have an individual who
Speaker 1: is highly motivated to take control of a major media
Speaker 1: entity in New Zealand who is doing so quite clearly
Speaker 1: with the intent of promulgating a particular political perspective, and
Speaker 1: there are real concerns about what that might means. The
Speaker 1: editorial independence of journalists are at injymen.
Speaker 3: So, Australian based Spheria Asset Management that owns nineteen percent
Speaker 3: of enz ME has come out last week and said
Speaker 3: it backs Grinnan's plans.
Speaker 1: So does that.
Speaker 3: Mean that this board takeover is basically a given?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: Do you think the current ENZME board can scrap backer? When?
Speaker 4: Ya?
Speaker 2: So? What?
Speaker 4: We won't know the final breakdown of the vote obviously
Speaker 4: until April twenty nine, and when the shareholders do all
Speaker 4: get together, and before that meeting happens, they will have
Speaker 4: available to them the biographies of all the six new
Speaker 4: nominees for the board, as well as you know existing
Speaker 4: board members. They'll know how they operate and so forth.
Speaker 4: There will be documentation that ended ME distributes and I
Speaker 4: expect that that will include correspondence from mister Grennan to
Speaker 4: the company in terms of outlining his proposals and ideas
Speaker 4: for the business. So potentially that letter, potentially that letter exactly,
Speaker 4: and so I think the idea will be that Enzimy
Speaker 4: shareholders will have as much information as possible ahead of
Speaker 4: the vote. So what we do know about the numbers
Speaker 4: right now is that enz Me's bigger shareholder, Spheria Asset Management,
Speaker 4: which has nineteen percent of the company, that is backing
Speaker 4: mister Grennan's bid to become a board member and the
Speaker 4: three other nominee. So that's a significant number to get
Speaker 4: to the fifty percent majority. This is a very fast
Speaker 4: moving story, and I expect that mister Greennin, myself and
Speaker 4: his supporters will be expecting to be over that fifty
Speaker 4: percent majority. If not already then certainly by the time
Speaker 4: April twenty nine rolls around. From my discussions, you know,
Speaker 4: talking to lots of different parties, they do seem confident.
Speaker 4: Having said that, I also know that enz Me will
Speaker 4: be talking to all of its shareholders in one way
Speaker 4: or another in terms of presenting just how the company
Speaker 4: is fearing its progress over the last twelve months. Especially
Speaker 4: we've just heard the financial results and what's planned. I mean,
Speaker 4: at the annual results announcement just a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 4: the company put forward three significant proposals in front of shareholders,
Speaker 4: including the appointment of a new board member, and VA
Speaker 4: can see on the board for that. So as I say,
Speaker 4: there's going to be a lot more to come in
Speaker 4: the next forty odd days.
Speaker 3: I've been at anzedmy for nearly a decade now, and
Speaker 3: I can't say that I've had too much to personally
Speaker 3: do with the board or our shareholders. The same way,
Speaker 3: I don't think doctors in an emergency department are rubbing
Speaker 3: shoulders with the Health then Z board for example. But you, however, Shane,
Speaker 3: have been on this company's executive team. What does a
Speaker 3: media board do and how much say do they actually
Speaker 3: traditionally have over editorial coverage.
Speaker 4: Well, I can safely say that when I was the
Speaker 4: editor in chief and on the executive and that was
Speaker 4: more than two years ago now, But at no stage
Speaker 4: did the board or the executive give direction in terms
Speaker 4: of you must cover the story kind of thing. We're
Speaker 4: a board an executive, you know they will make sure
Speaker 4: the settings are right in terms of resourcing and support.
Speaker 4: I worked very closely, for instance, on our extensive code
Speaker 4: of conduct and ethics, presented that to the board for approvals.
Speaker 4: Really the settings and the environment that the board and
Speaker 4: the executive are responsible for to allow that editorial independence
Speaker 4: to be maintained. And of course, what we've heard in
Speaker 4: the last week or so is some concerns from the
Speaker 4: Journalists Union. They just want reassurances that any new board members,
Speaker 4: including mister Greennan, will uphold that editorial independence. And so
Speaker 4: far the noises from mister Grennan have actually been very
Speaker 4: positive about editorial output and inputs. So the union is seeking,
Speaker 4: i think a one to one meeting with mister Greennan,
Speaker 4: just to be reassured itself on those points.
Speaker 5: Bezis said that he's in favor of personal liberties. Well,
Speaker 5: of course, so am I, and that's why I'm in
Speaker 5: favor of free expression. You know, it's right there in
Speaker 5: the First Amendment. And news organizations have always honored free
Speaker 5: expression by having a variety of points of view on
Speaker 5: their opinion pages. But Beasos now is just shutting that down,
Speaker 5: and he's saying that only his point of view is
Speaker 5: going to be represented on those pages. And that really
Speaker 5: is a betrayal the heritage of the Washington Post, and
Speaker 5: I think a betrayal of the very idea of free expression.
Speaker 3: So Amazon boss Jeff Bezos purchased The Washington Post back
Speaker 3: in twenty thirteen, but in the last decade he hasn't
Speaker 3: caused much controversy there as he has in the last
Speaker 3: six months. First he stopped the paper from endorsing a
Speaker 3: presidential candidate in last year's election, and well recently he's
Speaker 3: been dictating what he wants to see in the opinion
Speaker 3: part of the paper. That's led to staff resignations and
Speaker 3: a drop in digital subscriptions. So do you think that
Speaker 3: the same reaction could happen here?
Speaker 4: I think a totally different market in America. So if
Speaker 4: you look at the American market, you know, obviously tens
Speaker 4: of millions of people in The Washington Post is very
Speaker 4: much a global brand, almost and certainly a national brand.
Speaker 4: The New Zealand market is much smaller than news catching
Speaker 4: the area, if you like, is much smaller, and so
Speaker 4: all of the mainstream media organizations in New Zaan will
Speaker 4: strive to be a broad church of ideas, of opinions
Speaker 4: and commentary, and of course covering lots of the same
Speaker 4: topics at times. Now, that's not to say that those
Speaker 4: ideas can be broadened, or that news media organizations can
Speaker 4: pick up different topics to chase individually from each other,
Speaker 4: and of course they do do that. The American journalism
Speaker 4: system and media systems a little bit different as well,
Speaker 4: in terms of the opinion pages are generally run by
Speaker 4: executive editors who report up through a different line from
Speaker 4: the newsroom itself, and so that kind of church and
Speaker 4: state a little bit, the two different divisions, whereas hair
Speaker 4: opinion and news is basically led by the editor in
Speaker 4: chief as a whole. And so it's a bit of
Speaker 4: a different model. And I can see what Bezos is doing,
Speaker 4: and it has been, in my view, a change, a
Speaker 4: pivot obviously from him. He's previously said that he didn't
Speaker 4: want to interfere at all with any of the Washington
Speaker 4: Post content. I think you need to look at the
Speaker 4: political landscape obviously in America at the moment, and Bezos
Speaker 4: was literally sitting behind Donald Trumpet on Inauguration Day along
Speaker 4: with some of the other tech giant CEOs and owners.
Speaker 4: And to know that, you know, there's a very careful
Speaker 4: kind of game being played there at the moment. All
Speaker 4: I see really happening in the New Zealand market, yep,
Speaker 4: they'll be focused on mister Greennan if he becomes a
Speaker 4: board member and any other new board members. But of course,
Speaker 4: you know, it's a mass market newspaper, the New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 4: It's a mass market media organization ended me. It's always
Speaker 4: had private owners, and I expect that all the shearholders,
Speaker 4: certainly all the directors, will certainly be trying to make
Speaker 4: in of Me as successful as possible into the future.
Speaker 2: So let's move on to the rest of the industry.
Speaker 2: And things have not been sunny the last year. The
Speaker 2: entire news Hub brand was shut down in July, Iconic
Speaker 2: TV and Z shows were canceled after decades on air,
Speaker 2: Shortland Street was cut down to just three episodes a week,
Speaker 2: and now the Heir has had a major restructure of
Speaker 2: its staff. Now do you think we are near the
Speaker 2: end of these cuts or could there be.
Speaker 4: More to camp I thought we were at the end
Speaker 4: of dramatic change a while ago. I must say last
Speaker 4: year really was one for the books. This year has
Speaker 4: started no differently so far. I didn't expect to be
Speaker 4: covering my own companies in so much detail as I
Speaker 4: have been. And certainly the other big company that's hit
Speaker 4: the headlines already this year is Sky Television. So Sky
Speaker 4: and enz in me early on in twenty twenty five
Speaker 4: to two big publicly listed media companies in New Zealand
Speaker 4: are the ones that I guess have been in the spotlight.
Speaker 4: But I do expect that, you know, change is constant
Speaker 4: now and I think we all expect that in the
Speaker 4: media industry. And no, I think if you look at
Speaker 4: some of the outlooks on the forecast that the CEOs
Speaker 4: have been putting out, they are expect They are a
Speaker 4: little more confident about the middle of the end of
Speaker 4: the year in terms of advertising revenue and seeing I
Speaker 4: hate the word, but seeing the green shoots, if you like,
Speaker 4: in the economy that will hopefully shore up some of
Speaker 4: that revenue. And so, you know, I'm more optimistic about
Speaker 4: this year than I was about last year, that's for sure.
Speaker 4: But certainly, you know, I think at all times we
Speaker 4: just need to be listening to our audiences, observing just
Speaker 4: how they're reading and taking in our content, listening to
Speaker 4: our content in the case of the podcasts and so forth, Chelsea,
Speaker 4: and knowing that we're still appealing to a wide readership
Speaker 4: or wide audience. You know, there's more than two million
Speaker 4: people a day that come into the Herald and so
Speaker 4: you know that these are significant numbers and it's just
Speaker 4: about getting that business model right.
Speaker 3: Well, there's been a lot of expectations on the government
Speaker 3: to intervene, particularly around the Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill,
Speaker 3: and it seems that it's been in limbo for a
Speaker 3: while now. Is that still on the agenda.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's three different pieces of legislation if you like,
Speaker 4: or three pieces that the government is focusing on, and
Speaker 4: one of the key ones is the Fair Digital News
Speaker 4: Bargaining Bill. Now that has actually been put on the
Speaker 4: back burner a fair bit because we were initially going
Speaker 4: to be observing how this new legislation in Australia would
Speaker 4: work out. But the Aussies themselves have taken fright. There's
Speaker 4: a federal election obviously not too far away across the Tasman,
Speaker 4: but also taken fright at any sort of repercussions if
Speaker 4: they do sort of pin down facebooks in the Googles
Speaker 4: of the world in terms of repercussions from the Trump administration,
Speaker 4: and so New Zealand and Paul Goldsmith now really have
Speaker 4: to decide if we do try and pay their own
Speaker 4: way again in terms of the fair Digital News Bargaining bill.
Speaker 4: I do believe it's still alive as an issue, and
Speaker 4: I'm sure the media industry will be pushing for it
Speaker 4: in some form to be enacted at least by the
Speaker 4: end of the year. But I do think at the
Speaker 4: moment with that on hold and another two pieces of legislation,
Speaker 4: one of them is before Select Committee at the moment,
Speaker 4: that's the Sunday Advertising legislation, and then there's another which
Speaker 4: sort of encompass a whole lot of other issues such
Speaker 4: as a levy or at least a levy yes on
Speaker 4: revenue from the streamers for New Zealand content in New Zealand,
Speaker 4: amongst some other moves. All of this it's a little
Speaker 4: bit messy at the moment, but they should start coming through,
Speaker 4: as I say, hopefully midyear, end of the year.
Speaker 3: So Shane, you know I love asking you to look
Speaker 3: into your crystal ball for future predictions. Do you have any?
Speaker 3: Do you think things are going to get better? Are
Speaker 3: there some challenges we haven't discussed yet? What's your top back?
Speaker 4: Well, I actually had twenty five predictions for twenty five
Speaker 4: and one of my first media columns of the year,
Speaker 4: and I think you know some of them have come
Speaker 4: to fruition already just in terms of the first three months,
Speaker 4: and look, it's a changing game all the time. But
Speaker 4: what I do know is that there is you know,
Speaker 4: while there are issues around trust and news and absolutely
Speaker 4: media companies need to be addressing that and listening to
Speaker 4: their audiences, there is still an insatiable appetite for knowledge
Speaker 4: in this world for news. As I talked about the
Speaker 4: numbers of people coming to The Herald, it's the same
Speaker 4: for ZB, It's the same for a lot of our
Speaker 4: other major media organizations. People are still coming to us
Speaker 4: for information, wanting to know what's going on in the world.
Speaker 4: So as a baseline, you know, that has to be
Speaker 4: encouraging for us. So I'm always with a sense of
Speaker 4: optimism looking ahead. It's about getting these business models right
Speaker 4: and being given that runway and the resource to be
Speaker 4: able to make sure that we are able to keep
Speaker 4: our newsroom levels at the levels they are, if not boosted. Now,
Speaker 4: we've been going through a fair bit of hurt ourselves
Speaker 4: in the last few weeks, there's no doubt about that,
Speaker 4: but I'm optimistic that that will flatten out and hopefully
Speaker 4: rebuild very soon.
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us. Shane.
Speaker 4: Thanks Chelsea.
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 2: at enzadherld dot co dot mz. The Front Page is
Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sells and Richard Martin, who is also
Speaker 2: our sound engineer.
Speaker 3: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow
Speaker 3: for another look behind the headlines.