WEBVTT - Why does billionaire Jim Grenon want to replace NZME's board? 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:06.920 YIELDA. 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:10.040 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:16.599 daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. A battle 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.360 is underway for the future of one of New Zealand's 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:25.240 biggest media companies. Auckland based Canadian billionaire Jim Grennan has 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:28.160 in the last fortnight emerged as one of the biggest 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.520 shareholders in enzed Me, the owner of the enzed Herald, 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.600 newstalk ZEDB and many music radio stations, and next month 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:39.199 he hopes to vote out the company's current board members 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.720 and install himself and three others at the company's shareholder meeting. 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.479 It's the latest bit of turmoil to hit the media 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.440 sector in this country, with nearly every major media company 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.160 seeing upheaval to some degree over. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:54.320 The last twelve months. 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:57.200 Today on the Front Page, we're joined by media insider 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:01.240 Shane Curry to discuss what Grennan wants endzed Me and 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:06.000 if the sector is any closer to stability. 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:12.280 So, Shane, let's start with the big one. Who exactly 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.920 is Jim Grennan and how did he make his wealth 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.000 and why is he now living in New Zealand. I've 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:18.920 got so many questions. 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:21.520 Yeah, Jim Grennan a little bit of a mystery man 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.040 in some ways. And in fact I've asked several times 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.080 for an interview with mister Grennan and he has said 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.440 he will talk at some stage. But he what we 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:31.960 know of him, He is a Canadian billionaire, made his 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:36.319 money through private equity and investing in other businesses. Moved 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.440 here in twenty twelve and as a Kiwi as a 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:43.040 Kiwi resident, lives in Takapuna, and has very much come 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.880 to the four obviously in recent weeks in terms of 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.440 his shareholding and ended me and his intentions to become 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:50.960 an endy Me board member. 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:55.600 So Grennan founded his own media brands since moving here, 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.600 New Zealand News and Essentials and The Centrist. What do 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.840 we know about his motivation to start those brands? 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:07.080 So he has put out several statements in the last 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.560 few weeks just in terms of media inquiries, talked a 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.240 little bit about this centriest and The Centrist itself is 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.079 basically an aggregation site if you like, and he has 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.760 said that he introduced that by means of bringing more 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.359 to the everyday discussion. I guess in the news media 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.240 kind of environment, he felt that there were stories that 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.799 weren't getting or seeing the light of day. They do 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.240 employ some journalists to write stories specifically for the website, 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.000 but other stories they point to, For instance, they will 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:39.040 point to stories on the Herald or to other news websites, 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:40.960 and so it's a little bit of an aggregation site 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.240 as well as having its own unique content. But he 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.639 felt a bit like the platform, I guess in terms 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.200 of the audio sense that there was a conversation missing 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.680 on some topics and some political stances. I guess as well. 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:56.200 So Grennan has sent you a statement that editorial content 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:00.160 is a side issue, but the quality of journalism impacts 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.880 of the business, that he wants to improve the quality 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:07.720 of journalism, including through training to advanced staff skills, and 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.839 that he wants a new editorial board with representation from 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:13.800 both sides of the spectrum. What do you make of 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:14.080 all that? 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:16.240 Yeah, I think if we just take a step back 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.240 a little bit, Chelsea is obviously you know, he is 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:21.840 aiming to have a seat on the board of ensied 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.280 me along with three other nominees, and we have another shareholder, 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.120 Osbian Partners, who have put forward their own two nominations. 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.160 Now at the moment, what we don't know is the 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.800 details of a letter that mister Greennan has written to 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:37.400 ensed Me outlining some of what he sees as operational 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.840 and governance concerns. And so I've been requesting that letter 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.360 from both enzied Me and mister Grennan's group. So far 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:46.360 it hasn't been released. I do expect it will be 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.120 released at some stage ahead of the annual shareholders meeting, 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.080 and in that will get a sense of really the 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.600 editorial I guess, I guess endeavor that mister Grennan is 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.600 talking about here. But on the face of it, you know, 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.400 he's made some comments that should give cheer to the 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:03.880 Enzbing newsroom in the sense of, you know, wanting to 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.680 uphold and uplift the quality of journalism, maintaining standards and 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.480 building standards. But I guess the devil is in the 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.200 detail in terms of just what that specifically means. And 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:18.520 of course, when he talks about an emphasis on factual accuracy, 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.320 the newsroom will say, yes, that there's a big focus 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.920 for us at all times less selling of the writer's opinion. 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.680 He's also said that, and that's a discussion that comes 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.680 up quite a bit in terms of differentiating opinion from 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.320 actual news stories. And you know enz ME is said 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.800 in the past, you know, it's making efforts to make 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:40.120 that emphasis on factual stories versus opinion a lot more differentiated. 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.919 I guess, make it much more clearer to readers just 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.480 when they're reading commentary and opinion versus a straight news story. 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:48.640 And so I think, you know, he's totally in line 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.560 with what the company has been trying to do and 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.200 then appealing to a wider political spectrum. I guess that 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.000 again comes back to some of the points he was 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.479 making around setting up the centrist you know, that free 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.440 flow of information and ideas that there is a broad 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:07.760 church of content, which you know, mass media organizations will 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.520 argue that they are already in that ballpark. 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.560 Well, as you can imagine, this is a significant interest 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.200 to our members. So are many of the journalists at 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.440 NZDME and as the union who represents them. We're working 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.920 through this issue with them, and I think it's fair 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.400 to say that the primary primary concern here is to 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:35.560 ensure that journalists are able to continue doing their job 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:41.760 with genuine editorial independence, without fear or favor. And the 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.839 concern here is that we clearly have an individual who 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.520 is highly motivated to take control of a major media 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.800 entity in New Zealand who is doing so quite clearly 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.880 with the intent of promulgating a particular political perspective, and 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:58.919 there are real concerns about what that might means. The 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.240 editorial independence of journalists are at injymen. 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:09.600 So, Australian based Spheria Asset Management that owns nineteen percent 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.280 of enz ME has come out last week and said 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:13.720 it backs Grinnan's plans. 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:14.760 So does that. 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.719 Mean that this board takeover is basically a given? 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:17.920 Now? 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.800 Do you think the current ENZME board can scrap backer? When? 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:21.280 Ya? 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:21.599 So? What? 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.800 We won't know the final breakdown of the vote obviously 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.680 until April twenty nine, and when the shareholders do all 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:31.240 get together, and before that meeting happens, they will have 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.599 available to them the biographies of all the six new 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.520 nominees for the board, as well as you know existing 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.839 board members. They'll know how they operate and so forth. 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.560 There will be documentation that ended ME distributes and I 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.880 expect that that will include correspondence from mister Grennan to 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.320 the company in terms of outlining his proposals and ideas 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.880 for the business. So potentially that letter, potentially that letter exactly, 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.680 and so I think the idea will be that Enzimy 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.599 shareholders will have as much information as possible ahead of 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:01.520 the vote. So what we do know about the numbers 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.080 right now is that enz Me's bigger shareholder, Spheria Asset Management, 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.200 which has nineteen percent of the company, that is backing 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.400 mister Grennan's bid to become a board member and the 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.160 three other nominee. So that's a significant number to get 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.880 to the fifty percent majority. This is a very fast 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.640 moving story, and I expect that mister Greennin, myself and 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.000 his supporters will be expecting to be over that fifty 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.960 percent majority. If not already then certainly by the time 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:29.480 April twenty nine rolls around. From my discussions, you know, 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.080 talking to lots of different parties, they do seem confident. 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:34.840 Having said that, I also know that enz Me will 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.560 be talking to all of its shareholders in one way 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.200 or another in terms of presenting just how the company 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:45.240 is fearing its progress over the last twelve months. Especially 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.280 we've just heard the financial results and what's planned. I mean, 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.320 at the annual results announcement just a couple of weeks ago, 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.440 the company put forward three significant proposals in front of shareholders, 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.280 including the appointment of a new board member, and VA 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.960 can see on the board for that. So as I say, 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.280 there's going to be a lot more to come in 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.000 the next forty odd days. 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:08.440 I've been at anzedmy for nearly a decade now, and 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.120 I can't say that I've had too much to personally 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.640 do with the board or our shareholders. The same way, 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.320 I don't think doctors in an emergency department are rubbing 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:20.320 shoulders with the Health then Z board for example. But you, however, Shane, 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:24.040 have been on this company's executive team. What does a 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.400 media board do and how much say do they actually 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.840 traditionally have over editorial coverage. 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.559 Well, I can safely say that when I was the 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.360 editor in chief and on the executive and that was 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.040 more than two years ago now, But at no stage 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:44.080 did the board or the executive give direction in terms 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.600 of you must cover the story kind of thing. We're 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.559 a board an executive, you know they will make sure 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.480 the settings are right in terms of resourcing and support. 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.920 I worked very closely, for instance, on our extensive code 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.880 of conduct and ethics, presented that to the board for approvals. 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.360 Really the settings and the environment that the board and 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:06.199 the executive are responsible for to allow that editorial independence 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.960 to be maintained. And of course, what we've heard in 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.400 the last week or so is some concerns from the 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.600 Journalists Union. They just want reassurances that any new board members, 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.120 including mister Greennan, will uphold that editorial independence. And so 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:21.840 far the noises from mister Grennan have actually been very 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:26.160 positive about editorial output and inputs. So the union is seeking, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.640 i think a one to one meeting with mister Greennan, 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.040 just to be reassured itself on those points. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.360 Bezis said that he's in favor of personal liberties. Well, 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.440 of course, so am I, and that's why I'm in 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:43.760 favor of free expression. You know, it's right there in 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.440 the First Amendment. And news organizations have always honored free 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.200 expression by having a variety of points of view on 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.839 their opinion pages. But Beasos now is just shutting that down, 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.480 and he's saying that only his point of view is 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.360 going to be represented on those pages. And that really 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.920 is a betrayal the heritage of the Washington Post, and 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.480 I think a betrayal of the very idea of free expression. 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:15.520 So Amazon boss Jeff Bezos purchased The Washington Post back 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.040 in twenty thirteen, but in the last decade he hasn't 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.440 caused much controversy there as he has in the last 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.680 six months. First he stopped the paper from endorsing a 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.880 presidential candidate in last year's election, and well recently he's 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.160 been dictating what he wants to see in the opinion 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.400 part of the paper. That's led to staff resignations and 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.800 a drop in digital subscriptions. So do you think that 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:40.800 the same reaction could happen here? 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.280 I think a totally different market in America. So if 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:46.679 you look at the American market, you know, obviously tens 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.160 of millions of people in The Washington Post is very 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.280 much a global brand, almost and certainly a national brand. 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.000 The New Zealand market is much smaller than news catching 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.319 the area, if you like, is much smaller, and so 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.480 all of the mainstream media organizations in New Zaan will 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.840 strive to be a broad church of ideas, of opinions 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.480 and commentary, and of course covering lots of the same 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:08.960 topics at times. Now, that's not to say that those 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.720 ideas can be broadened, or that news media organizations can 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.920 pick up different topics to chase individually from each other, 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.800 and of course they do do that. The American journalism 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.000 system and media systems a little bit different as well, 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.480 in terms of the opinion pages are generally run by 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.800 executive editors who report up through a different line from 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.160 the newsroom itself, and so that kind of church and 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.600 state a little bit, the two different divisions, whereas hair 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:38.040 opinion and news is basically led by the editor in 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.120 chief as a whole. And so it's a bit of 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.440 a different model. And I can see what Bezos is doing, 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.040 and it has been, in my view, a change, a 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.160 pivot obviously from him. He's previously said that he didn't 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.120 want to interfere at all with any of the Washington 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:51.720 Post content. I think you need to look at the 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.360 political landscape obviously in America at the moment, and Bezos 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:59.440 was literally sitting behind Donald Trumpet on Inauguration Day along 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.560 with some of the other tech giant CEOs and owners. 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.880 And to know that, you know, there's a very careful 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.079 kind of game being played there at the moment. All 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.360 I see really happening in the New Zealand market, yep, 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.960 they'll be focused on mister Greennan if he becomes a 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:17.120 board member and any other new board members. But of course, 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:21.080 you know, it's a mass market newspaper, the New Zealand Herald. 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.960 It's a mass market media organization ended me. It's always 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.960 had private owners, and I expect that all the shearholders, 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.920 certainly all the directors, will certainly be trying to make 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.280 in of Me as successful as possible into the future. 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.760 So let's move on to the rest of the industry. 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.320 And things have not been sunny the last year. The 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.640 entire news Hub brand was shut down in July, Iconic 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.480 TV and Z shows were canceled after decades on air, 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.280 Shortland Street was cut down to just three episodes a week, 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.840 and now the Heir has had a major restructure of 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:03.960 its staff. Now do you think we are near the 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.360 end of these cuts or could there be. 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.640 More to camp I thought we were at the end 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:13.320 of dramatic change a while ago. I must say last 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.520 year really was one for the books. This year has 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.200 started no differently so far. I didn't expect to be 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.120 covering my own companies in so much detail as I 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.200 have been. And certainly the other big company that's hit 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.880 the headlines already this year is Sky Television. So Sky 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.200 and enz in me early on in twenty twenty five 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.120 to two big publicly listed media companies in New Zealand 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.079 are the ones that I guess have been in the spotlight. 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.480 But I do expect that, you know, change is constant 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:39.920 now and I think we all expect that in the 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.640 media industry. And no, I think if you look at 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.080 some of the outlooks on the forecast that the CEOs 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.079 have been putting out, they are expect They are a 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.520 little more confident about the middle of the end of 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.160 the year in terms of advertising revenue and seeing I 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.280 hate the word, but seeing the green shoots, if you like, 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.240 in the economy that will hopefully shore up some of 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:04.120 that revenue. And so, you know, I'm more optimistic about 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.000 this year than I was about last year, that's for sure. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.480 But certainly, you know, I think at all times we 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.360 just need to be listening to our audiences, observing just 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.000 how they're reading and taking in our content, listening to 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.000 our content in the case of the podcasts and so forth, Chelsea, 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.560 and knowing that we're still appealing to a wide readership 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.640 or wide audience. You know, there's more than two million 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.880 people a day that come into the Herald and so 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.280 you know that these are significant numbers and it's just 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:29.800 about getting that business model right. 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.200 Well, there's been a lot of expectations on the government 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:36.400 to intervene, particularly around the Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill, 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.600 and it seems that it's been in limbo for a 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.240 while now. Is that still on the agenda. 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.440 Yeah, there's three different pieces of legislation if you like, 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.200 or three pieces that the government is focusing on, and 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.640 one of the key ones is the Fair Digital News 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.920 Bargaining Bill. Now that has actually been put on the 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.760 back burner a fair bit because we were initially going 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.760 to be observing how this new legislation in Australia would 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.560 work out. But the Aussies themselves have taken fright. There's 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.240 a federal election obviously not too far away across the Tasman, 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.600 but also taken fright at any sort of repercussions if 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:10.640 they do sort of pin down facebooks in the Googles 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.400 of the world in terms of repercussions from the Trump administration, 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.040 and so New Zealand and Paul Goldsmith now really have 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.440 to decide if we do try and pay their own 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.480 way again in terms of the fair Digital News Bargaining bill. 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:27.000 I do believe it's still alive as an issue, and 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.760 I'm sure the media industry will be pushing for it 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.760 in some form to be enacted at least by the 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:34.840 end of the year. But I do think at the 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:39.239 moment with that on hold and another two pieces of legislation, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.480 one of them is before Select Committee at the moment, 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:45.560 that's the Sunday Advertising legislation, and then there's another which 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.080 sort of encompass a whole lot of other issues such 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.200 as a levy or at least a levy yes on 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:55.520 revenue from the streamers for New Zealand content in New Zealand, 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.800 amongst some other moves. All of this it's a little 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:01.000 bit messy at the moment, but they should start coming through, 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.680 as I say, hopefully midyear, end of the year. 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.000 So Shane, you know I love asking you to look 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:11.400 into your crystal ball for future predictions. Do you have any? 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:12.920 Do you think things are going to get better? Are 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.400 there some challenges we haven't discussed yet? What's your top back? 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.760 Well, I actually had twenty five predictions for twenty five 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.200 and one of my first media columns of the year, 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:22.640 and I think you know some of them have come 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.040 to fruition already just in terms of the first three months, 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.120 and look, it's a changing game all the time. But 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.720 what I do know is that there is you know, 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:35.280 while there are issues around trust and news and absolutely 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.760 media companies need to be addressing that and listening to 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:42.160 their audiences, there is still an insatiable appetite for knowledge 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:44.840 in this world for news. As I talked about the 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:46.800 numbers of people coming to The Herald, it's the same 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:48.720 for ZB, It's the same for a lot of our 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.640 other major media organizations. People are still coming to us 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.480 for information, wanting to know what's going on in the world. 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.640 So as a baseline, you know, that has to be 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.560 encouraging for us. So I'm always with a sense of 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.720 optimism looking ahead. It's about getting these business models right 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.399 and being given that runway and the resource to be 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.920 able to make sure that we are able to keep 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.440 our newsroom levels at the levels they are, if not boosted. Now, 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.480 we've been going through a fair bit of hurt ourselves 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:18.800 in the last few weeks, there's no doubt about that, 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:23.280 but I'm optimistic that that will flatten out and hopefully 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:24.400 rebuild very soon. 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:25.719 Thanks for joining us. Shane. 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:26.399 Thanks Chelsea. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.960 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.760 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.840 at enzadherld dot co dot mz. The Front Page is 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.639 produced by Ethan Sells and Richard Martin, who is also 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:46.840 our sound engineer. 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.720 I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.439 or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:57.760 for another look behind the headlines.