1 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: YIELDA. 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. A battle 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: is underway for the future of one of New Zealand's 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 2: biggest media companies. Auckland based Canadian billionaire Jim Grennan has 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 2: in the last fortnight emerged as one of the biggest 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: shareholders in enzed Me, the owner of the enzed Herald, 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 2: newstalk ZEDB and many music radio stations, and next month 9 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 2: he hopes to vote out the company's current board members 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: and install himself and three others at the company's shareholder meeting. 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 2: It's the latest bit of turmoil to hit the media 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: sector in this country, with nearly every major media company 13 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 2: seeing upheaval to some degree over. 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 3: The last twelve months. 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: Today on the Front Page, we're joined by media insider 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: Shane Curry to discuss what Grennan wants endzed Me and 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: if the sector is any closer to stability. 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 3: So, Shane, let's start with the big one. Who exactly 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 3: is Jim Grennan and how did he make his wealth 20 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 3: and why is he now living in New Zealand. I've 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 3: got so many questions. 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, Jim Grennan a little bit of a mystery man 23 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 4: in some ways. And in fact I've asked several times 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 4: for an interview with mister Grennan and he has said 25 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 4: he will talk at some stage. But he what we 26 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 4: know of him, He is a Canadian billionaire, made his 27 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 4: money through private equity and investing in other businesses. Moved 28 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 4: here in twenty twelve and as a Kiwi as a 29 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 4: Kiwi resident, lives in Takapuna, and has very much come 30 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 4: to the four obviously in recent weeks in terms of 31 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 4: his shareholding and ended me and his intentions to become 32 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 4: an endy Me board member. 33 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: So Grennan founded his own media brands since moving here, 34 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 3: New Zealand News and Essentials and The Centrist. What do 35 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 3: we know about his motivation to start those brands? 36 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 4: So he has put out several statements in the last 37 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 4: few weeks just in terms of media inquiries, talked a 38 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 4: little bit about this centriest and The Centrist itself is 39 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 4: basically an aggregation site if you like, and he has 40 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 4: said that he introduced that by means of bringing more 41 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 4: to the everyday discussion. I guess in the news media 42 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 4: kind of environment, he felt that there were stories that 43 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 4: weren't getting or seeing the light of day. They do 44 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 4: employ some journalists to write stories specifically for the website, 45 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 4: but other stories they point to, For instance, they will 46 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 4: point to stories on the Herald or to other news websites, 47 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 4: and so it's a little bit of an aggregation site 48 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 4: as well as having its own unique content. But he 49 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 4: felt a bit like the platform, I guess in terms 50 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 4: of the audio sense that there was a conversation missing 51 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 4: on some topics and some political stances. I guess as well. 52 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 3: So Grennan has sent you a statement that editorial content 53 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 3: is a side issue, but the quality of journalism impacts 54 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 3: of the business, that he wants to improve the quality 55 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 3: of journalism, including through training to advanced staff skills, and 56 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,839 Speaker 3: that he wants a new editorial board with representation from 57 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 3: both sides of the spectrum. What do you make of 58 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 3: all that? 59 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think if we just take a step back 60 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 4: a little bit, Chelsea is obviously you know, he is 61 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 4: aiming to have a seat on the board of ensied 62 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 4: me along with three other nominees, and we have another shareholder, 63 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 4: Osbian Partners, who have put forward their own two nominations. 64 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 4: Now at the moment, what we don't know is the 65 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 4: details of a letter that mister Greennan has written to 66 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 4: ensed Me outlining some of what he sees as operational 67 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 4: and governance concerns. And so I've been requesting that letter 68 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 4: from both enzied Me and mister Grennan's group. So far 69 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 4: it hasn't been released. I do expect it will be 70 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 4: released at some stage ahead of the annual shareholders meeting, 71 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 4: and in that will get a sense of really the 72 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 4: editorial I guess, I guess endeavor that mister Grennan is 73 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 4: talking about here. But on the face of it, you know, 74 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 4: he's made some comments that should give cheer to the 75 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 4: Enzbing newsroom in the sense of, you know, wanting to 76 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 4: uphold and uplift the quality of journalism, maintaining standards and 77 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 4: building standards. But I guess the devil is in the 78 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 4: detail in terms of just what that specifically means. And 79 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 4: of course, when he talks about an emphasis on factual accuracy, 80 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 4: the newsroom will say, yes, that there's a big focus 81 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 4: for us at all times less selling of the writer's opinion. 82 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 4: He's also said that, and that's a discussion that comes 83 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 4: up quite a bit in terms of differentiating opinion from 84 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 4: actual news stories. And you know enz ME is said 85 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 4: in the past, you know, it's making efforts to make 86 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 4: that emphasis on factual stories versus opinion a lot more differentiated. 87 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 4: I guess, make it much more clearer to readers just 88 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 4: when they're reading commentary and opinion versus a straight news story. 89 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 4: And so I think, you know, he's totally in line 90 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 4: with what the company has been trying to do and 91 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 4: then appealing to a wider political spectrum. I guess that 92 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 4: again comes back to some of the points he was 93 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 4: making around setting up the centrist you know, that free 94 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 4: flow of information and ideas that there is a broad 95 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 4: church of content, which you know, mass media organizations will 96 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 4: argue that they are already in that ballpark. 97 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: Well, as you can imagine, this is a significant interest 98 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: to our members. So are many of the journalists at 99 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: NZDME and as the union who represents them. We're working 100 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: through this issue with them, and I think it's fair 101 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: to say that the primary primary concern here is to 102 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: ensure that journalists are able to continue doing their job 103 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: with genuine editorial independence, without fear or favor. And the 104 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: concern here is that we clearly have an individual who 105 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: is highly motivated to take control of a major media 106 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: entity in New Zealand who is doing so quite clearly 107 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: with the intent of promulgating a particular political perspective, and 108 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: there are real concerns about what that might means. The 109 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: editorial independence of journalists are at injymen. 110 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 3: So, Australian based Spheria Asset Management that owns nineteen percent 111 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 3: of enz ME has come out last week and said 112 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 3: it backs Grinnan's plans. 113 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: So does that. 114 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 3: Mean that this board takeover is basically a given? 115 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: Now? 116 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 3: Do you think the current ENZME board can scrap backer? When? 117 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 4: Ya? 118 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 2: So? What? 119 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 4: We won't know the final breakdown of the vote obviously 120 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 4: until April twenty nine, and when the shareholders do all 121 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 4: get together, and before that meeting happens, they will have 122 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 4: available to them the biographies of all the six new 123 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 4: nominees for the board, as well as you know existing 124 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 4: board members. They'll know how they operate and so forth. 125 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 4: There will be documentation that ended ME distributes and I 126 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 4: expect that that will include correspondence from mister Grennan to 127 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 4: the company in terms of outlining his proposals and ideas 128 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 4: for the business. So potentially that letter, potentially that letter exactly, 129 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 4: and so I think the idea will be that Enzimy 130 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 4: shareholders will have as much information as possible ahead of 131 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 4: the vote. So what we do know about the numbers 132 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 4: right now is that enz Me's bigger shareholder, Spheria Asset Management, 133 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 4: which has nineteen percent of the company, that is backing 134 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 4: mister Grennan's bid to become a board member and the 135 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 4: three other nominee. So that's a significant number to get 136 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 4: to the fifty percent majority. This is a very fast 137 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 4: moving story, and I expect that mister Greennin, myself and 138 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 4: his supporters will be expecting to be over that fifty 139 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 4: percent majority. If not already then certainly by the time 140 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 4: April twenty nine rolls around. From my discussions, you know, 141 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 4: talking to lots of different parties, they do seem confident. 142 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 4: Having said that, I also know that enz Me will 143 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 4: be talking to all of its shareholders in one way 144 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 4: or another in terms of presenting just how the company 145 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 4: is fearing its progress over the last twelve months. Especially 146 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 4: we've just heard the financial results and what's planned. I mean, 147 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 4: at the annual results announcement just a couple of weeks ago, 148 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 4: the company put forward three significant proposals in front of shareholders, 149 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 4: including the appointment of a new board member, and VA 150 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 4: can see on the board for that. So as I say, 151 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 4: there's going to be a lot more to come in 152 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 4: the next forty odd days. 153 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 3: I've been at anzedmy for nearly a decade now, and 154 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 3: I can't say that I've had too much to personally 155 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 3: do with the board or our shareholders. The same way, 156 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 3: I don't think doctors in an emergency department are rubbing 157 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 3: shoulders with the Health then Z board for example. But you, however, Shane, 158 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 3: have been on this company's executive team. What does a 159 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: media board do and how much say do they actually 160 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 3: traditionally have over editorial coverage. 161 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 4: Well, I can safely say that when I was the 162 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 4: editor in chief and on the executive and that was 163 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 4: more than two years ago now, But at no stage 164 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 4: did the board or the executive give direction in terms 165 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 4: of you must cover the story kind of thing. We're 166 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 4: a board an executive, you know they will make sure 167 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 4: the settings are right in terms of resourcing and support. 168 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 4: I worked very closely, for instance, on our extensive code 169 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 4: of conduct and ethics, presented that to the board for approvals. 170 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 4: Really the settings and the environment that the board and 171 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 4: the executive are responsible for to allow that editorial independence 172 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 4: to be maintained. And of course, what we've heard in 173 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 4: the last week or so is some concerns from the 174 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 4: Journalists Union. They just want reassurances that any new board members, 175 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 4: including mister Greennan, will uphold that editorial independence. And so 176 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 4: far the noises from mister Grennan have actually been very 177 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 4: positive about editorial output and inputs. So the union is seeking, 178 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 4: i think a one to one meeting with mister Greennan, 179 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 4: just to be reassured itself on those points. 180 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 5: Bezis said that he's in favor of personal liberties. Well, 181 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 5: of course, so am I, and that's why I'm in 182 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 5: favor of free expression. You know, it's right there in 183 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 5: the First Amendment. And news organizations have always honored free 184 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 5: expression by having a variety of points of view on 185 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 5: their opinion pages. But Beasos now is just shutting that down, 186 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 5: and he's saying that only his point of view is 187 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 5: going to be represented on those pages. And that really 188 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 5: is a betrayal the heritage of the Washington Post, and 189 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 5: I think a betrayal of the very idea of free expression. 190 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 3: So Amazon boss Jeff Bezos purchased The Washington Post back 191 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 3: in twenty thirteen, but in the last decade he hasn't 192 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 3: caused much controversy there as he has in the last 193 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 3: six months. First he stopped the paper from endorsing a 194 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 3: presidential candidate in last year's election, and well recently he's 195 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 3: been dictating what he wants to see in the opinion 196 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 3: part of the paper. That's led to staff resignations and 197 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 3: a drop in digital subscriptions. So do you think that 198 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 3: the same reaction could happen here? 199 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 4: I think a totally different market in America. So if 200 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 4: you look at the American market, you know, obviously tens 201 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 4: of millions of people in The Washington Post is very 202 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 4: much a global brand, almost and certainly a national brand. 203 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 4: The New Zealand market is much smaller than news catching 204 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 4: the area, if you like, is much smaller, and so 205 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 4: all of the mainstream media organizations in New Zaan will 206 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 4: strive to be a broad church of ideas, of opinions 207 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 4: and commentary, and of course covering lots of the same 208 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 4: topics at times. Now, that's not to say that those 209 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 4: ideas can be broadened, or that news media organizations can 210 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 4: pick up different topics to chase individually from each other, 211 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 4: and of course they do do that. The American journalism 212 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 4: system and media systems a little bit different as well, 213 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 4: in terms of the opinion pages are generally run by 214 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 4: executive editors who report up through a different line from 215 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 4: the newsroom itself, and so that kind of church and 216 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 4: state a little bit, the two different divisions, whereas hair 217 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 4: opinion and news is basically led by the editor in 218 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 4: chief as a whole. And so it's a bit of 219 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 4: a different model. And I can see what Bezos is doing, 220 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 4: and it has been, in my view, a change, a 221 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 4: pivot obviously from him. He's previously said that he didn't 222 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 4: want to interfere at all with any of the Washington 223 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 4: Post content. I think you need to look at the 224 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 4: political landscape obviously in America at the moment, and Bezos 225 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 4: was literally sitting behind Donald Trumpet on Inauguration Day along 226 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 4: with some of the other tech giant CEOs and owners. 227 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 4: And to know that, you know, there's a very careful 228 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,079 Speaker 4: kind of game being played there at the moment. All 229 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 4: I see really happening in the New Zealand market, yep, 230 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 4: they'll be focused on mister Greennan if he becomes a 231 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 4: board member and any other new board members. But of course, 232 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 4: you know, it's a mass market newspaper, the New Zealand Herald. 233 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 4: It's a mass market media organization ended me. It's always 234 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 4: had private owners, and I expect that all the shearholders, 235 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 4: certainly all the directors, will certainly be trying to make 236 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 4: in of Me as successful as possible into the future. 237 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: So let's move on to the rest of the industry. 238 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: And things have not been sunny the last year. The 239 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: entire news Hub brand was shut down in July, Iconic 240 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 2: TV and Z shows were canceled after decades on air, 241 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: Shortland Street was cut down to just three episodes a week, 242 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 2: and now the Heir has had a major restructure of 243 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: its staff. Now do you think we are near the 244 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 2: end of these cuts or could there be. 245 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 4: More to camp I thought we were at the end 246 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 4: of dramatic change a while ago. I must say last 247 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 4: year really was one for the books. This year has 248 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 4: started no differently so far. I didn't expect to be 249 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 4: covering my own companies in so much detail as I 250 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 4: have been. And certainly the other big company that's hit 251 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 4: the headlines already this year is Sky Television. So Sky 252 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 4: and enz in me early on in twenty twenty five 253 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 4: to two big publicly listed media companies in New Zealand 254 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,079 Speaker 4: are the ones that I guess have been in the spotlight. 255 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 4: But I do expect that, you know, change is constant 256 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 4: now and I think we all expect that in the 257 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 4: media industry. And no, I think if you look at 258 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 4: some of the outlooks on the forecast that the CEOs 259 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 4: have been putting out, they are expect They are a 260 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 4: little more confident about the middle of the end of 261 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 4: the year in terms of advertising revenue and seeing I 262 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 4: hate the word, but seeing the green shoots, if you like, 263 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 4: in the economy that will hopefully shore up some of 264 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 4: that revenue. And so, you know, I'm more optimistic about 265 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 4: this year than I was about last year, that's for sure. 266 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 4: But certainly, you know, I think at all times we 267 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 4: just need to be listening to our audiences, observing just 268 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 4: how they're reading and taking in our content, listening to 269 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 4: our content in the case of the podcasts and so forth, Chelsea, 270 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 4: and knowing that we're still appealing to a wide readership 271 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 4: or wide audience. You know, there's more than two million 272 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 4: people a day that come into the Herald and so 273 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 4: you know that these are significant numbers and it's just 274 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 4: about getting that business model right. 275 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 3: Well, there's been a lot of expectations on the government 276 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 3: to intervene, particularly around the Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill, 277 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 3: and it seems that it's been in limbo for a 278 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 3: while now. Is that still on the agenda. 279 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's three different pieces of legislation if you like, 280 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 4: or three pieces that the government is focusing on, and 281 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 4: one of the key ones is the Fair Digital News 282 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 4: Bargaining Bill. Now that has actually been put on the 283 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 4: back burner a fair bit because we were initially going 284 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 4: to be observing how this new legislation in Australia would 285 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 4: work out. But the Aussies themselves have taken fright. There's 286 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 4: a federal election obviously not too far away across the Tasman, 287 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 4: but also taken fright at any sort of repercussions if 288 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 4: they do sort of pin down facebooks in the Googles 289 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 4: of the world in terms of repercussions from the Trump administration, 290 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 4: and so New Zealand and Paul Goldsmith now really have 291 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 4: to decide if we do try and pay their own 292 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 4: way again in terms of the fair Digital News Bargaining bill. 293 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 4: I do believe it's still alive as an issue, and 294 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 4: I'm sure the media industry will be pushing for it 295 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 4: in some form to be enacted at least by the 296 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 4: end of the year. But I do think at the 297 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,239 Speaker 4: moment with that on hold and another two pieces of legislation, 298 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 4: one of them is before Select Committee at the moment, 299 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 4: that's the Sunday Advertising legislation, and then there's another which 300 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 4: sort of encompass a whole lot of other issues such 301 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 4: as a levy or at least a levy yes on 302 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 4: revenue from the streamers for New Zealand content in New Zealand, 303 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 4: amongst some other moves. All of this it's a little 304 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 4: bit messy at the moment, but they should start coming through, 305 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 4: as I say, hopefully midyear, end of the year. 306 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 3: So Shane, you know I love asking you to look 307 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 3: into your crystal ball for future predictions. Do you have any? 308 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 3: Do you think things are going to get better? Are 309 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 3: there some challenges we haven't discussed yet? What's your top back? 310 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 4: Well, I actually had twenty five predictions for twenty five 311 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 4: and one of my first media columns of the year, 312 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 4: and I think you know some of them have come 313 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 4: to fruition already just in terms of the first three months, 314 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 4: and look, it's a changing game all the time. But 315 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 4: what I do know is that there is you know, 316 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 4: while there are issues around trust and news and absolutely 317 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 4: media companies need to be addressing that and listening to 318 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 4: their audiences, there is still an insatiable appetite for knowledge 319 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 4: in this world for news. As I talked about the 320 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 4: numbers of people coming to The Herald, it's the same 321 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 4: for ZB, It's the same for a lot of our 322 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 4: other major media organizations. People are still coming to us 323 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 4: for information, wanting to know what's going on in the world. 324 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 4: So as a baseline, you know, that has to be 325 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 4: encouraging for us. So I'm always with a sense of 326 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 4: optimism looking ahead. It's about getting these business models right 327 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 4: and being given that runway and the resource to be 328 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 4: able to make sure that we are able to keep 329 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 4: our newsroom levels at the levels they are, if not boosted. Now, 330 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 4: we've been going through a fair bit of hurt ourselves 331 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 4: in the last few weeks, there's no doubt about that, 332 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 4: but I'm optimistic that that will flatten out and hopefully 333 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 4: rebuild very soon. 334 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us. Shane. 335 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 4: Thanks Chelsea. 336 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 337 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 338 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 2: at enzadherld dot co dot mz. The Front Page is 339 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sells and Richard Martin, who is also 340 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: our sound engineer. 341 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 3: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio 342 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow 343 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 3: for another look behind the headlines.