1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk Z'B. Follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,133 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,653 --> 00:00:19,172 Speaker 2: Mark Worams is a former World champion sailor Team New 4 00:00:19,253 --> 00:00:22,453 Speaker 2: Zealand member, author and currently Professor of Sport and Recreation 5 00:00:22,533 --> 00:00:26,092 Speaker 2: at the Auckland University of Technology. Mark, Very good afternoon 6 00:00:26,093 --> 00:00:26,293 Speaker 2: to you. 7 00:00:26,692 --> 00:00:28,173 Speaker 3: Good afternoon, Mark. 8 00:00:28,213 --> 00:00:30,292 Speaker 4: How gatta are you that the America's Cup isn't coming 9 00:00:30,293 --> 00:00:31,252 Speaker 4: back in twenty twenty seven. 10 00:00:32,173 --> 00:00:35,813 Speaker 3: Well, to be honest, I'm disappointed, but I'm not surprised. 11 00:00:36,613 --> 00:00:38,333 Speaker 3: It was always a bit of a long shot. I 12 00:00:38,373 --> 00:00:41,293 Speaker 3: own in some ways I was a little surprised that 13 00:00:41,293 --> 00:00:44,613 Speaker 3: they were even exploring that option. And when they said 14 00:00:44,613 --> 00:00:47,253 Speaker 3: that they were, then of course your hopes get raised 15 00:00:47,253 --> 00:00:50,933 Speaker 3: a fair bit. But realistically it was always going to 16 00:00:50,973 --> 00:00:53,572 Speaker 3: be difficult in the current economic climate that we're in 17 00:00:53,613 --> 00:00:56,612 Speaker 3: here in New Zealand to make the numbers stack up. 18 00:00:56,693 --> 00:01:00,733 Speaker 3: And I do understand that from a Team New Zealand perspective, 19 00:01:01,573 --> 00:01:03,813 Speaker 3: what they need to do first and foremost is they 20 00:01:03,813 --> 00:01:07,093 Speaker 3: have enough money to mount a successful defense of the 21 00:01:07,133 --> 00:01:10,013 Speaker 3: America's Cup, Because if you haven't got the money to 22 00:01:10,093 --> 00:01:13,253 Speaker 3: keep the team together, we go back to two thousand 23 00:01:13,292 --> 00:01:16,533 Speaker 3: and three and that's something we don't want to revisit. 24 00:01:16,853 --> 00:01:19,093 Speaker 4: So, speaking of money, does Team New Zealand even want 25 00:01:19,133 --> 00:01:21,613 Speaker 4: to bring it here considering the money and coverage that 26 00:01:21,973 --> 00:01:23,813 Speaker 4: it can be captured in the Northern Hemisphere. 27 00:01:24,973 --> 00:01:27,533 Speaker 3: I think Team New Zealand absolutely wants to have it here. 28 00:01:27,613 --> 00:01:29,732 Speaker 3: I've got to remember that the vast majority of the 29 00:01:29,773 --> 00:01:32,373 Speaker 3: team are New Zealanders. They've grown up here, they're proud 30 00:01:32,453 --> 00:01:35,932 Speaker 3: New Zealand Sailors. And of course there's the home court 31 00:01:35,973 --> 00:01:38,693 Speaker 3: advantage if you like, We as a team and as 32 00:01:38,733 --> 00:01:41,773 Speaker 3: sailors know the holdactn Golf better than anybody and so 33 00:01:42,333 --> 00:01:44,733 Speaker 3: that gives us a real sense of being able to 34 00:01:44,733 --> 00:01:47,413 Speaker 3: stay at home with our families and have the local 35 00:01:47,453 --> 00:01:51,893 Speaker 3: support and to know intimately the waters that would be 36 00:01:51,933 --> 00:01:55,133 Speaker 3: competing on. So if they could make the money stack up, 37 00:01:55,213 --> 00:01:57,573 Speaker 3: I think that they absolutely would have wanted to have 38 00:01:57,653 --> 00:02:01,813 Speaker 3: it here. But again it comes back to the basics 39 00:02:01,853 --> 00:02:04,693 Speaker 3: of this is an expensive game and so you've got 40 00:02:04,693 --> 00:02:07,653 Speaker 3: to have pretty deep pockets to be able to have 41 00:02:07,773 --> 00:02:11,533 Speaker 3: the team stay together to build the sort of boat 42 00:02:11,573 --> 00:02:15,493 Speaker 3: that you need to be successful as a defender. And 43 00:02:15,533 --> 00:02:19,413 Speaker 3: if you go in without a full kind of wholester 44 00:02:19,532 --> 00:02:22,893 Speaker 3: of weapons against the opposition that comes at you, you 45 00:02:23,053 --> 00:02:26,333 Speaker 3: end up getting shot down. So I agree and I 46 00:02:26,413 --> 00:02:30,413 Speaker 3: understand the prioritization of ensuring the team is as competitive 47 00:02:30,413 --> 00:02:31,053 Speaker 3: as it can be. 48 00:02:31,853 --> 00:02:35,333 Speaker 4: We're talking to Mark Orham's aut sailing professor. Does SALGP 49 00:02:35,532 --> 00:02:37,813 Speaker 4: cover the yachting for New Zealanders. 50 00:02:38,733 --> 00:02:41,053 Speaker 3: I think it does for a certain portion of time. 51 00:02:41,093 --> 00:02:42,692 Speaker 3: I mean, of course, the ol GP is only really 52 00:02:42,693 --> 00:02:45,252 Speaker 3: a three day event, so over that period of time 53 00:02:45,293 --> 00:02:48,253 Speaker 3: people absolutely love it and it's a real highlight now 54 00:02:48,773 --> 00:02:52,053 Speaker 3: of the sailing calendar in New Zealand. And of course 55 00:02:52,133 --> 00:02:54,852 Speaker 3: the recent event in Auckland was a great success. But 56 00:02:55,293 --> 00:02:58,973 Speaker 3: it's quite different than the America's Cup. The America's Cup 57 00:02:59,053 --> 00:03:01,692 Speaker 3: goes on for many months. You have teams and all 58 00:03:01,733 --> 00:03:04,213 Speaker 3: of their families who stay here and become part of 59 00:03:04,213 --> 00:03:07,613 Speaker 3: the local community. You have all of the sort of 60 00:03:08,373 --> 00:03:11,333 Speaker 3: look from supiots who choose to come down for the summer, 61 00:03:11,373 --> 00:03:14,573 Speaker 3: and so the America's Cup is are much much longer 62 00:03:14,813 --> 00:03:18,133 Speaker 3: and in much more sustained kind of event in terms 63 00:03:18,133 --> 00:03:20,613 Speaker 3: of its impact and its interest. And of course you 64 00:03:20,693 --> 00:03:24,293 Speaker 3: can't replicate the history of the America's Cup, which is 65 00:03:24,333 --> 00:03:28,613 Speaker 3: the oldest international sporting event bar none. So Sale GPS great, 66 00:03:28,653 --> 00:03:31,053 Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, but the America's Cup is something 67 00:03:31,093 --> 00:03:32,692 Speaker 3: that's very hard to replicate. 68 00:03:32,853 --> 00:03:34,853 Speaker 4: Do you think we would have done more to find 69 00:03:34,853 --> 00:03:37,293 Speaker 4: the money if it wasn't for Sale GP or do 70 00:03:37,293 --> 00:03:38,733 Speaker 4: do you think there's a lot of people like me 71 00:03:38,773 --> 00:03:40,653 Speaker 4: that go sal GP was awesome, so at least we're 72 00:03:40,693 --> 00:03:42,493 Speaker 4: getting some of that experience. 73 00:03:43,893 --> 00:03:48,413 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd see them as sort of two alternative products, 74 00:03:48,493 --> 00:03:52,573 Speaker 3: if you like. Even though they're both elite professional competitive 75 00:03:52,573 --> 00:03:57,653 Speaker 3: sailing events stayed, they fill quite different roles from my perspective. 76 00:03:58,613 --> 00:04:01,093 Speaker 3: Sale GP for me is a little bit sort of 77 00:04:01,093 --> 00:04:06,013 Speaker 3: an analogous to the Formula one or Moto GP. And 78 00:04:06,093 --> 00:04:09,693 Speaker 3: while it's nationally affiliated buy and you've got these teams 79 00:04:09,693 --> 00:04:12,973 Speaker 3: that are traveling around the world and it's a bit 80 00:04:13,013 --> 00:04:16,652 Speaker 3: of a traveling road show that happens periodically every month 81 00:04:16,733 --> 00:04:20,013 Speaker 3: or in some cases every week or two. The America's 82 00:04:20,053 --> 00:04:22,413 Speaker 3: Cup is an event a bit more like the Olympic Games. 83 00:04:22,413 --> 00:04:24,093 Speaker 3: You know, you build up to it over four or 84 00:04:24,093 --> 00:04:27,653 Speaker 3: five years, has a long history, has a lot of prestige, 85 00:04:27,693 --> 00:04:31,453 Speaker 3: a lot of controversy, and so they for me, they 86 00:04:31,493 --> 00:04:33,693 Speaker 3: feel sort of slightly different roles even though we have 87 00:04:33,813 --> 00:04:36,213 Speaker 3: some of the same people competing in both events. 88 00:04:36,453 --> 00:04:40,493 Speaker 4: We're talking to at Sailing professor Mark Orhams. What does 89 00:04:40,533 --> 00:04:43,933 Speaker 4: this mean for our high tech boating and boat building 90 00:04:44,533 --> 00:04:47,893 Speaker 4: and sailing industries not having the America's Cup coming down here. 91 00:04:49,053 --> 00:04:51,693 Speaker 3: Well, I think both both the marine industry and Auckland 92 00:04:51,693 --> 00:04:54,453 Speaker 3: and more widely in New Zealand and the hospitality industry 93 00:04:54,453 --> 00:04:57,773 Speaker 3: will will be really disappointed because there's no question that 94 00:04:57,813 --> 00:05:01,493 Speaker 3: the America's Cup has and could continue to provide a 95 00:05:01,573 --> 00:05:05,893 Speaker 3: major impetus for those two industry or those two sectors 96 00:05:05,933 --> 00:05:09,333 Speaker 3: if you like. It's not so much from the input 97 00:05:09,373 --> 00:05:13,053 Speaker 3: into to Team New Zealand itself or even the America's 98 00:05:13,093 --> 00:05:16,533 Speaker 3: Cup specifically, it's more about the sorts of profile and 99 00:05:16,693 --> 00:05:19,653 Speaker 3: especially the super yachts and other visitors who come down, 100 00:05:20,093 --> 00:05:23,493 Speaker 3: because when they do bring those really valuable large vessels 101 00:05:23,493 --> 00:05:26,293 Speaker 3: down here, they spend many months, they often take the 102 00:05:26,333 --> 00:05:29,253 Speaker 3: opportunity to refit and pull out of the water, and 103 00:05:29,293 --> 00:05:31,773 Speaker 3: they spend an enormous amount of money while they're here, 104 00:05:31,853 --> 00:05:35,453 Speaker 3: and that supports that marine industry. So without the America's 105 00:05:35,493 --> 00:05:38,933 Speaker 3: Cup being hosted here, you lose that opportunity. New Zealand's 106 00:05:38,933 --> 00:05:41,133 Speaker 3: a long way to come to and so for those 107 00:05:41,133 --> 00:05:44,053 Speaker 3: super yachts and all money that comes with them, you 108 00:05:44,093 --> 00:05:45,933 Speaker 3: need a really good reason to come down to the 109 00:05:45,933 --> 00:05:48,693 Speaker 3: bottom of the planet. The America's Cup provides that reason, 110 00:05:49,173 --> 00:05:51,693 Speaker 3: So not having it here means that we miss out 111 00:05:51,733 --> 00:05:52,413 Speaker 3: on that best. 112 00:05:52,973 --> 00:05:57,373 Speaker 2: Grant Dalton is a phenomenal fundraiser, is very formidable at 113 00:05:57,413 --> 00:05:59,773 Speaker 2: what he does in that realm. Why couldn't we change 114 00:05:59,773 --> 00:06:02,653 Speaker 2: the balance for what the government provides versus what the 115 00:06:02,693 --> 00:06:06,613 Speaker 2: private backers would provide is they're just not the appetite 116 00:06:06,733 --> 00:06:09,413 Speaker 2: from those private backers. They don't enough return from what 117 00:06:09,453 --> 00:06:11,613 Speaker 2: they're putting in. If you're talking about one hundred and 118 00:06:11,653 --> 00:06:12,053 Speaker 2: fifty mil. 119 00:06:13,213 --> 00:06:16,053 Speaker 3: Yeah, interesting, And I think you've identified something that not 120 00:06:16,173 --> 00:06:19,333 Speaker 3: many people have and that Grant Dalton is exceptional at this. 121 00:06:20,053 --> 00:06:25,293 Speaker 3: He is somebody who has developed a very credible commercial 122 00:06:26,613 --> 00:06:31,573 Speaker 3: proposition that he puts to people. He's cultivated important relationships 123 00:06:31,613 --> 00:06:34,373 Speaker 3: with high net worth individuals who trust him and want 124 00:06:34,413 --> 00:06:37,733 Speaker 3: to back him. That said, it's a big ass to 125 00:06:37,773 --> 00:06:39,733 Speaker 3: try and get to those sort of numbers of the 126 00:06:39,773 --> 00:06:45,573 Speaker 3: basis of personal connections and trust with high networth individuals 127 00:06:45,853 --> 00:06:50,493 Speaker 3: and especially in the corporate sense sponsoring an event at 128 00:06:50,493 --> 00:06:53,053 Speaker 3: the bottom of the planet where the vast majority of 129 00:06:53,093 --> 00:06:56,173 Speaker 3: their customers and profile they are looking for. It's in 130 00:06:56,173 --> 00:06:58,613 Speaker 3: the middle of the night in the Northern Hemisphere. Those 131 00:06:58,613 --> 00:07:01,573 Speaker 3: things make it really difficult. So Grant Dalton will find 132 00:07:01,573 --> 00:07:04,613 Speaker 3: it much easier to sell the product of the America's 133 00:07:04,653 --> 00:07:06,853 Speaker 3: Cup and support for Team New Zealand in the Northern 134 00:07:06,853 --> 00:07:10,493 Speaker 3: Hemisphere than he will here in New Zealand. That's just 135 00:07:10,533 --> 00:07:14,813 Speaker 3: the sort of geographical reality and the commercial reality of 136 00:07:15,173 --> 00:07:16,373 Speaker 3: the global marketplace. 137 00:07:17,733 --> 00:07:21,453 Speaker 4: So having said all that, can you see it ever 138 00:07:21,533 --> 00:07:22,693 Speaker 4: coming back to New Zealand? 139 00:07:23,853 --> 00:07:27,373 Speaker 3: Yes, I can, Actually, I mean maybe I'm I'm a 140 00:07:27,413 --> 00:07:31,253 Speaker 3: forever optimist. The reason that I'm optimistic about it is 141 00:07:31,733 --> 00:07:34,693 Speaker 3: that there is still a real commitment within Team New 142 00:07:34,773 --> 00:07:37,693 Speaker 3: Zealand to say we want to host the America's Cup here. 143 00:07:37,973 --> 00:07:40,133 Speaker 3: But we know to have that opportunity, we've got to 144 00:07:40,173 --> 00:07:42,813 Speaker 3: win it, because if we don't want it, then we 145 00:07:44,133 --> 00:07:46,613 Speaker 3: don't shape what happens in the next event. There is 146 00:07:46,653 --> 00:07:49,413 Speaker 3: a context at the moment which is meant that this 147 00:07:49,533 --> 00:07:52,693 Speaker 3: attempt to host the thirty eighth America's Cup here in 148 00:07:52,773 --> 00:07:55,333 Speaker 3: New Zealand has failed, and that context is that we 149 00:07:55,413 --> 00:08:00,733 Speaker 3: are really in a financially challenging context in terms of 150 00:08:01,053 --> 00:08:04,533 Speaker 3: our economy, in terms of our businesses, the government books, 151 00:08:04,813 --> 00:08:09,253 Speaker 3: Auckland Council's books, and so we and I hope we 152 00:08:09,333 --> 00:08:12,213 Speaker 3: do see that turnaround in the near future. If we 153 00:08:12,333 --> 00:08:15,693 Speaker 3: are able to successfully defend the America's Cup and wherever 154 00:08:15,773 --> 00:08:19,493 Speaker 3: it is in twenty and twenty seven, then we'll have 155 00:08:19,533 --> 00:08:23,093 Speaker 3: an opportunity to have another go at bringing it back 156 00:08:23,093 --> 00:08:27,773 Speaker 3: to Auckland when our financial circumstances might be more conducive 157 00:08:27,813 --> 00:08:28,053 Speaker 3: to that. 158 00:08:28,493 --> 00:08:30,533 Speaker 2: Mark really good to chat with you. Thank you very 159 00:08:30,613 --> 00:08:33,533 Speaker 2: much for your time this afternoon. Absolute please it all 160 00:08:33,533 --> 00:08:36,253 Speaker 2: the best. That is Mark Orm's, former a World champion 161 00:08:36,293 --> 00:08:38,813 Speaker 2: sailor Team New Zealand member and professor of Sport and 162 00:08:39,013 --> 00:08:41,652 Speaker 2: Recreation at Auckland University of Technology. 163 00:08:42,252 --> 00:08:44,933 Speaker 1: For more from news talks at b listen live on 164 00:08:44,973 --> 00:08:47,973 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 165 00:08:48,012 --> 00:08:50,532 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on Irradio.