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Speaker 1: Change coming to the three strikes raise human jails is

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Speaker 1: going to be allowing at the threshold entry point currently

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Speaker 1: based around the two year sentence that'll be have to won.

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Speaker 1: The Law Association Vice president Julian Kincaid's with us on

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Speaker 1: this Juliane morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Mike.

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Speaker 1: You're disappointed. Will that be a fairce eummation of your view?

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Speaker 2: Very disappointed. We did make submissions to the committee about

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Speaker 2: the issues that we saw with the three strikes as

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Speaker 2: it was currently drafted prior to the United slant yesterday

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Speaker 2: by Nicola McKay. And this is just exacerbating a problem

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Speaker 2: that will exist anyway.

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Speaker 1: Is it the three strikes or is it the trigger point.

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Speaker 2: It's a combination of it all. First of all, there's

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Speaker 2: no evidence that this actually works in the way that

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Speaker 2: people want to work. It's not at terence. Unfortunately, what

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Speaker 2: we want, all of us want less crime and less

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Speaker 2: serious crime. But this is actually going to capture all

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Speaker 2: sorts of people who shouldn't necessarily be there. For example,

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Speaker 2: sencing is very nuanced and difficult, and some people might

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Speaker 2: be sent to jail simply because they don't have a

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Speaker 2: house in which they can do an electronically monitored sentence.

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Speaker 2: It will lead to unfair and unjust outcomes.

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Speaker 1: Is it nuanced because they've made it nuanced, and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to be as nuanced as it is.

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Speaker 2: No sentencing must be nuanced. There are so many factors

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Speaker 2: in human beings that apply. We look first at the

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Speaker 2: offense always in sentencing, and the judge takes a starting

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Speaker 2: point based on the offense, and then they look at

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Speaker 2: factors that are unique to that offender. And there's a

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Speaker 2: balance that has to be performed with all sentences. And

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Speaker 2: it's complex, and that complexity might not always come across

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Speaker 2: in a newspaper article, which I think is where a

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Speaker 2: lot of the people who see problems get their information.

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Speaker 1: But those people have a vote, as to you, and

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Speaker 1: this is where we're at. We're at the intersection of

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Speaker 1: public opinion versus the legal fraternity, aren't we.

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Speaker 2: Yes, one would expect that any changes are based on evidence,

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Speaker 2: and if they seriously want there to be a difference

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Speaker 2: made to serious offending, they need to put more money

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Speaker 2: into mental health and other rehabilitation processes which help to

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Speaker 2: keep make sure take away the causes of crime, and

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Speaker 2: that will impact on the people committing crimes.

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Speaker 1: True to say, if you're in jail, you don't commit crime.

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Speaker 2: Actually not true.

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Speaker 1: You're not breaking into my house while you're in jail.

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Speaker 2: No, you're not breaking into your house. But there are

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Speaker 2: other crimes that people commit allegedly at the moment of

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Speaker 2: a few cases before the courts, whilst they're in jail.

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Speaker 2: That is not the issue. I'm also very very concerned

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Speaker 2: about the lack of parole. Parole is an incentive for

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Speaker 2: good behavior, and it encourages people, incentivises them to do

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Speaker 2: engage with psychologists and take programs, understand the trigger points.

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Speaker 2: Under this regime, the most serious offenders will be not

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Speaker 2: allowed any parole. They won't be given any rehabilitation. We

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Speaker 2: can say that now, and then they'll be chucked out

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Speaker 2: on the street without the There's strong support that the

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Speaker 2: parole system puts around people to make sure they transition

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Speaker 2: back into our society. This is actually going to achieve

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Speaker 2: exactly the opposite of what they want to achieve, and

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Speaker 2: that's what concerns us.

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Speaker 1: Julien Kin Kay, appreciate your time very much. Mike. We

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Speaker 1: don't want to deterrent. We want more bad people in

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Speaker 1: prison for longer. Mike. The reason we have so many

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Speaker 1: recidibus criminals is because of that defense Lawyer're making excuses

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Speaker 1: for them and why they offend, and so neither party

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Speaker 1: shall agree.

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