1
00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,427
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine

2
00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:12,027
Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB.

3
00:00:12,667 --> 00:00:16,947
Speaker 2: Coach in any capacity. It's a seven year reign which

4
00:00:16,987 --> 00:00:19,547
Speaker 2: now appears to be coming to an end. Gary Stead,

5
00:00:19,547 --> 00:00:22,187
Speaker 2: of course, had already said he didn't want to coach

6
00:00:22,227 --> 00:00:25,947
Speaker 2: the white ball formats anymore, but he would be interested

7
00:00:26,467 --> 00:00:29,507
Speaker 2: in staying on as Red Bull coach for the black Caps.

8
00:00:29,867 --> 00:00:33,867
Speaker 2: He has not, though, been interviewed in any capacity for

9
00:00:34,187 --> 00:00:37,907
Speaker 2: that role or the overarching role. Obviously he couldn't be

10
00:00:37,947 --> 00:00:40,067
Speaker 2: because he didn't want to do the white ball stuff.

11
00:00:40,267 --> 00:00:44,947
Speaker 2: So Gary Stead will leave having fashioned arguably the greatest

12
00:00:45,027 --> 00:00:48,387
Speaker 2: record of any black Caps coach, a World Test Championship,

13
00:00:48,747 --> 00:00:52,827
Speaker 2: the three nil series victory in India, fifty over and

14
00:00:52,907 --> 00:00:56,787
Speaker 2: twenty over World Cup final appearances to his credit. So

15
00:00:56,867 --> 00:01:01,347
Speaker 2: I think his legacy will be pretty secure. But who

16
00:01:01,347 --> 00:01:02,027
Speaker 2: will get the gig?

17
00:01:02,067 --> 00:01:02,347
Speaker 1: Now?

18
00:01:02,827 --> 00:01:06,067
Speaker 2: Who are the candidates and who is most likely to

19
00:01:06,107 --> 00:01:08,667
Speaker 2: get a gig? Let's bring in Award winning sports writer

20
00:01:09,587 --> 00:01:15,107
Speaker 2: and author of the SUPERB subscriber newsletter The Bounce, Dylan Cleaver. Dylan,

21
00:01:15,227 --> 00:01:18,787
Speaker 2: presumably you're hearing the same things that we are. Gary

22
00:01:18,827 --> 00:01:23,067
Speaker 2: Stead's tenual end, which presumably means that New Zealand Cricket

23
00:01:23,107 --> 00:01:27,067
Speaker 2: have decided against splitting out the coaching role between formats,

24
00:01:27,387 --> 00:01:29,707
Speaker 2: having a red ball coach and a white ball coach.

25
00:01:29,747 --> 00:01:30,987
Speaker 2: They're not going to do that.

26
00:01:31,987 --> 00:01:36,587
Speaker 3: Yeah, Essentially, I think there's a great reluctance to split

27
00:01:36,667 --> 00:01:40,147
Speaker 3: the roles and I think that's understandable. It's been tried,

28
00:01:40,947 --> 00:01:43,667
Speaker 3: certainly in bigger programs around the world. England tried it,

29
00:01:43,707 --> 00:01:47,547
Speaker 3: but they tend to go back to the single head

30
00:01:47,547 --> 00:01:52,987
Speaker 3: coach system. And within that kind of system you can

31
00:01:53,027 --> 00:01:57,547
Speaker 3: bring in specialist assistance for the different formats. But my

32
00:01:57,707 --> 00:02:01,867
Speaker 3: understanding is extremely likely to go with the single head coach.

33
00:02:02,147 --> 00:02:05,787
Speaker 2: Do you think the players, particularly the white ball specialists,

34
00:02:05,827 --> 00:02:08,827
Speaker 2: would like the idea of split roles or not.

35
00:02:10,587 --> 00:02:14,587
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. I think, well, it's hard

36
00:02:14,627 --> 00:02:17,627
Speaker 3: to say rearlier until until you try it, I guess.

37
00:02:17,667 --> 00:02:22,387
Speaker 3: But I think there's a fundamental misand understanding of the

38
00:02:22,467 --> 00:02:26,027
Speaker 3: head coach role in cricket. I think with the different formats,

39
00:02:26,227 --> 00:02:29,827
Speaker 3: your head coach is more facilitated than anything. And because

40
00:02:29,907 --> 00:02:34,107
Speaker 3: the modern cricket environment is so fractured, so multi format

41
00:02:34,187 --> 00:02:36,667
Speaker 3: and players, the best players in the world are going

42
00:02:36,667 --> 00:02:41,427
Speaker 3: from franchise to franchise team to team, format to format.

43
00:02:41,867 --> 00:02:44,347
Speaker 3: They don't want to go into an environment where the

44
00:02:44,387 --> 00:02:47,827
Speaker 3: head coach is trying to tell them how to play cricket. Essentially,

45
00:02:47,867 --> 00:02:50,867
Speaker 3: you want a very consistent personality as your head coach.

46
00:02:51,427 --> 00:02:54,147
Speaker 3: You want a very good organizer as your head coach.

47
00:02:54,507 --> 00:02:57,267
Speaker 3: And that's what Gary Stead became. And I think that

48
00:02:57,347 --> 00:03:00,187
Speaker 3: players had a great deular respect for his consistency of

49
00:03:00,227 --> 00:03:03,827
Speaker 3: his personality, consistency of the selection as much as they

50
00:03:03,867 --> 00:03:08,227
Speaker 3: might have frustrated us at punters from times time. Yeah,

51
00:03:08,267 --> 00:03:11,947
Speaker 3: and just consistency of that environment. And I think that's

52
00:03:11,947 --> 00:03:13,867
Speaker 3: what they'd crave more than anything else.

53
00:03:14,027 --> 00:03:16,907
Speaker 2: All Right, Well, the names that have been banded around

54
00:03:16,907 --> 00:03:19,147
Speaker 2: as those who did get an interview former ball and

55
00:03:19,187 --> 00:03:23,667
Speaker 2: coach of Shane Bond and Shane Jurgensen, incumbent assistant Luke Ronkey,

56
00:03:24,147 --> 00:03:26,787
Speaker 2: and former domestic and recent South African white ball coach

57
00:03:26,907 --> 00:03:31,307
Speaker 2: Rob Walter. Of that quartet, first of all, who seems

58
00:03:31,387 --> 00:03:34,507
Speaker 2: most suitable and secondly, who do you think will get it?

59
00:03:37,547 --> 00:03:43,707
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a tough question. I guess Jurgensen has the

60
00:03:43,747 --> 00:03:47,707
Speaker 3: advantage that he was a long time part of that camp,

61
00:03:47,787 --> 00:03:51,627
Speaker 3: that black Caps camp, probably longer than the others, Although

62
00:03:51,707 --> 00:03:54,667
Speaker 3: Luke Ronky has been in and around the team for

63
00:03:54,707 --> 00:03:58,067
Speaker 3: a while now. I think Luke's big disadvantages He's yet

64
00:03:58,067 --> 00:04:01,867
Speaker 3: to have a big time head coach role, so his

65
00:04:02,667 --> 00:04:06,147
Speaker 3: experience has all been as an assistant. Rob Bolter was

66
00:04:06,187 --> 00:04:09,667
Speaker 3: the name that popped up almost immediately, wasn't it. And

67
00:04:11,147 --> 00:04:14,987
Speaker 3: I'm not certain it was a coincidence that he left

68
00:04:15,027 --> 00:04:20,067
Speaker 3: South Africa when he did, And my understanding was perhaps

69
00:04:20,107 --> 00:04:22,227
Speaker 3: one of the reasons he left that South African system

70
00:04:22,387 --> 00:04:25,907
Speaker 3: was because of the split head coach role and the

71
00:04:25,987 --> 00:04:28,667
Speaker 3: difficulties that wasn't getting guys in that have been under

72
00:04:28,667 --> 00:04:30,467
Speaker 3: a head coach at Red Bull and then you just

73
00:04:30,507 --> 00:04:32,147
Speaker 3: get them for a week or so and you're head

74
00:04:32,187 --> 00:04:35,187
Speaker 3: coaching them and the white ball and I think it

75
00:04:35,227 --> 00:04:39,867
Speaker 3: was an awkward fit there. So yeah, I mean, I

76
00:04:39,947 --> 00:04:44,627
Speaker 3: don't know, but I would I would be mildly surprised

77
00:04:44,627 --> 00:04:46,627
Speaker 3: if it wasn't Rob Walker. I think he's got the

78
00:04:46,667 --> 00:04:51,107
Speaker 3: depth of experience as a head coach just slot into

79
00:04:51,147 --> 00:04:53,827
Speaker 3: that role. But that's not to say that that's the

80
00:04:53,867 --> 00:04:55,827
Speaker 3: same way as the New Zealand Cricket Board.

81
00:04:55,907 --> 00:05:00,147
Speaker 2: Think a name that's missing for me is Peter Fulton.

82
00:05:00,307 --> 00:05:04,547
Speaker 2: Multiple championship winning coach in a bunch of formats for Canterbury,

83
00:05:05,187 --> 00:05:08,707
Speaker 2: former Test player himself of course, and white ball cricketer.

84
00:05:09,307 --> 00:05:11,147
Speaker 2: Was it a surprise to you that Peter Fulton's not

85
00:05:11,227 --> 00:05:11,987
Speaker 2: in this conversation?

86
00:05:12,867 --> 00:05:15,947
Speaker 3: Absolutely a surprise to me that he didn't get an interview.

87
00:05:16,027 --> 00:05:18,227
Speaker 3: If that is the case and the jungle drums are true,

88
00:05:18,227 --> 00:05:20,787
Speaker 3: and the four that you previously mentioned are the ones

89
00:05:21,227 --> 00:05:23,547
Speaker 3: that made the short list and good an interview, I

90
00:05:23,587 --> 00:05:26,147
Speaker 3: would have thought Peter Fulton did it how you meant

91
00:05:26,187 --> 00:05:28,747
Speaker 3: to do it. He was probably too early into that

92
00:05:28,787 --> 00:05:32,187
Speaker 3: assistant role within the Black Caps, probably realized that that

93
00:05:32,307 --> 00:05:35,667
Speaker 3: he needed to get out and get some head coach experience.

94
00:05:35,707 --> 00:05:39,067
Speaker 3: He's done that at Canterbury. He's done it extremely well.

95
00:05:40,507 --> 00:05:43,787
Speaker 3: Maybe the only black mark against his name is that

96
00:05:43,867 --> 00:05:46,867
Speaker 3: he has been a little insulated within that New Zealand

97
00:05:46,907 --> 00:05:52,467
Speaker 3: Canterbury system. Maybe the high performance manages at the New

98
00:05:52,547 --> 00:05:54,947
Speaker 3: Zealand Cricket field that he needs to get a slightly

99
00:05:54,987 --> 00:05:57,907
Speaker 3: more breadth of experience in coaching and perhaps needs to

100
00:05:57,907 --> 00:06:02,067
Speaker 3: go to either another association or coach overseas as well.

101
00:06:02,067 --> 00:06:04,987
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm certainly surprised that he didn't At the

102
00:06:05,067 --> 00:06:06,147
Speaker 3: very least get an interview.

103
00:06:06,347 --> 00:06:09,827
Speaker 2: All right, well, wait for the outcome of who eventually

104
00:06:09,827 --> 00:06:12,427
Speaker 2: does get the top job. Flying under the radar and

105
00:06:12,467 --> 00:06:14,987
Speaker 2: I read this with interest in your latest newsletter. We're

106
00:06:14,987 --> 00:06:17,267
Speaker 2: all keen to see who the new black Caps head coaches.

107
00:06:17,667 --> 00:06:21,067
Speaker 2: But the head of high performance role is also soon

108
00:06:21,107 --> 00:06:24,307
Speaker 2: to be vacated by Brian Stronach, so he'll need to

109
00:06:24,347 --> 00:06:27,827
Speaker 2: be replaced as well. How important and appointments?

110
00:06:28,027 --> 00:06:32,347
Speaker 3: Is this massively important and not important all at the

111
00:06:32,387 --> 00:06:36,227
Speaker 3: same time. And let me explain that for a little

112
00:06:36,227 --> 00:06:39,867
Speaker 3: bit there. Brian Stronach was really highly regarded. He was

113
00:06:39,987 --> 00:06:42,227
Speaker 3: really highly regarded by the players, and I think he

114
00:06:42,307 --> 00:06:45,587
Speaker 3: was really highly regarded within cricket circles in New Zealand

115
00:06:45,587 --> 00:06:49,947
Speaker 3: of the major associations, and that as a completely ego

116
00:06:50,147 --> 00:06:55,747
Speaker 3: free guy who just made sure things worked. And in

117
00:06:55,787 --> 00:06:59,067
Speaker 3: that respect it's a massively important role. You've got to

118
00:06:59,067 --> 00:07:02,747
Speaker 3: be that interface between the major six major associations, between

119
00:07:02,787 --> 00:07:07,067
Speaker 3: the national side and as I mentioned before, and can

120
00:07:07,107 --> 00:07:10,947
Speaker 3: mention that nauseam, the cricket world is just so fractured

121
00:07:11,227 --> 00:07:16,347
Speaker 3: and complicated at the moment. You need a superbly organized

122
00:07:16,387 --> 00:07:19,187
Speaker 3: guy in that head of high performance role that making

123
00:07:19,227 --> 00:07:23,787
Speaker 3: sure everything is catered for the needs of the players,

124
00:07:23,787 --> 00:07:27,307
Speaker 3: the coaching staff, the major associations has catered for at

125
00:07:27,307 --> 00:07:30,467
Speaker 3: a time when more and more and more cricket has

126
00:07:30,547 --> 00:07:34,867
Speaker 3: been squeezed into the calendar. And you know, there's so

127
00:07:34,987 --> 00:07:37,507
Speaker 3: much more cricket being paid with her that's franchise level,

128
00:07:37,507 --> 00:07:41,587
Speaker 3: whether that's domestic first class level, whether it's international level.

129
00:07:41,627 --> 00:07:43,787
Speaker 3: And yet there is still only three hundred and sixty

130
00:07:43,787 --> 00:07:47,947
Speaker 3: five days of the year, so that role is incredibly important.

131
00:07:48,267 --> 00:07:52,307
Speaker 3: Yet it will remain virtually anonymous. I mean, there'll be

132
00:07:52,347 --> 00:07:54,747
Speaker 3: people listening to this now that they don't even know

133
00:07:54,787 --> 00:07:57,267
Speaker 3: who Brian Stronach is. And I think that's the way

134
00:07:57,307 --> 00:07:59,427
Speaker 3: he liked it, and I think that's the way the

135
00:07:59,467 --> 00:08:01,987
Speaker 3: guys who worked under him liked it too, all right.

136
00:08:02,027 --> 00:08:05,427
Speaker 2: And the other thing bubbling why is the eminent release

137
00:08:05,667 --> 00:08:10,907
Speaker 2: of New Zealand Crickets centrally contracted list. They centrally contract

138
00:08:10,947 --> 00:08:14,307
Speaker 2: tweety players every year. This has changed a lot, hasn't

139
00:08:14,307 --> 00:08:17,267
Speaker 2: it in the last few years. Players the likes of

140
00:08:17,627 --> 00:08:21,707
Speaker 2: Caine Williamson, Devon Conway, Blocky, Ferguson Finell and Tim siphered

141
00:08:21,987 --> 00:08:24,067
Speaker 2: they're not interested in central contracts anymore.

142
00:08:24,067 --> 00:08:29,587
Speaker 3: Are they No, No, but not well, probably for different reasons.

143
00:08:30,067 --> 00:08:32,907
Speaker 3: You know, Finale and Tim seifher to T twenty specialist,

144
00:08:32,987 --> 00:08:34,907
Speaker 3: so it makes sense for them to be available for

145
00:08:34,947 --> 00:08:39,227
Speaker 3: as many as the high paying T twenty gigs around

146
00:08:39,227 --> 00:08:42,547
Speaker 3: the world. With Cain, it's slightly different. You know, he's

147
00:08:42,547 --> 00:08:44,347
Speaker 3: at the end of his career. He wants to be

148
00:08:44,347 --> 00:08:46,747
Speaker 3: able to sort of dictate his calendar. He's got a

149
00:08:46,787 --> 00:08:50,747
Speaker 3: young family. I think he's made it pretty clear over

150
00:08:50,827 --> 00:08:53,387
Speaker 3: the last four or five years that his interest in

151
00:08:53,467 --> 00:08:57,907
Speaker 3: playing bilateral white ball cricketers as an all time low.

152
00:08:58,667 --> 00:09:01,227
Speaker 3: So again it makes sense for him he's going to

153
00:09:01,307 --> 00:09:05,667
Speaker 3: have fewer opportunities than the younger guys to go and too.

154
00:09:05,747 --> 00:09:08,467
Speaker 3: I just work you'd call the nest egg phase of

155
00:09:08,507 --> 00:09:11,747
Speaker 3: your career. But that doesn't mean he's not interested in

156
00:09:11,787 --> 00:09:14,707
Speaker 3: playing for New Zealand. I still think in the right circumstances,

157
00:09:14,707 --> 00:09:17,947
Speaker 3: he'd love to be available for major tournaments and for

158
00:09:18,107 --> 00:09:22,307
Speaker 3: Marquee Test Series And to be honest, and yes, that's

159
00:09:22,387 --> 00:09:24,507
Speaker 3: up to the new high performance manager and the new

160
00:09:24,587 --> 00:09:27,187
Speaker 3: head coach of the black Caps as to how much

161
00:09:27,227 --> 00:09:30,387
Speaker 3: they would want to indulge that. And you know, from

162
00:09:30,427 --> 00:09:34,227
Speaker 3: a fans perspective, and certainly from a cricket journalist perspective,

163
00:09:34,707 --> 00:09:37,947
Speaker 3: I think Kay Williamson has certainly earned the right to

164
00:09:37,987 --> 00:09:40,347
Speaker 3: be indulged, and I think anything we can do to

165
00:09:40,467 --> 00:09:43,987
Speaker 3: extend that playing career should be seriously considered.

166
00:09:44,147 --> 00:09:46,707
Speaker 2: Absolutely so, Matt Henry number one for you. I know

167
00:09:46,747 --> 00:09:49,227
Speaker 2: that I published the rankings they probably should, but Matt

168
00:09:49,227 --> 00:09:50,427
Speaker 2: Henry number one for you.

169
00:09:51,267 --> 00:09:53,387
Speaker 3: Clear by the length of the straight. For me, his

170
00:09:53,987 --> 00:09:57,067
Speaker 3: work over the past twelve months and all formats has

171
00:09:57,107 --> 00:10:03,107
Speaker 3: been phenomenal. You know, him missing that G twenty final,

172
00:10:03,187 --> 00:10:09,867
Speaker 3: I think he's showed the importance of himself to that team.

173
00:10:10,267 --> 00:10:14,147
Speaker 3: You know, he's just turned into a machine like efficient

174
00:10:14,427 --> 00:10:16,747
Speaker 3: fast bowler, one of the best we've ever had. And

175
00:10:16,827 --> 00:10:18,627
Speaker 3: you know, people tend to forget he had to wait

176
00:10:18,627 --> 00:10:21,107
Speaker 3: in the wings a long time to get his opportunity,

177
00:10:21,707 --> 00:10:25,587
Speaker 3: and you know, his early results in international cricket were

178
00:10:25,627 --> 00:10:28,267
Speaker 3: not good at all. I think at one point he

179
00:10:28,427 --> 00:10:31,947
Speaker 3: was a guy who had the highest Test bowling average

180
00:10:31,987 --> 00:10:34,027
Speaker 3: for someone who played a minimum of ten Tests or

181
00:10:34,027 --> 00:10:36,507
Speaker 3: something like that. So he has learned on the job.

182
00:10:36,547 --> 00:10:38,987
Speaker 3: He's terrific. I'm pretty sure Ratchet will be number two

183
00:10:39,027 --> 00:10:42,027
Speaker 3: and Darren Mitchell three. Then it gets a little bit

184
00:10:42,147 --> 00:10:45,067
Speaker 3: sketchy under that. I think I had Glenn Phillips as

185
00:10:45,267 --> 00:10:48,067
Speaker 3: high as number four in my list, and look, I

186
00:10:48,147 --> 00:10:52,347
Speaker 3: love watching Glenn Phillips play cricket. But you know, if

187
00:10:52,347 --> 00:10:54,387
Speaker 3: he's number four on the list, he hasn't got a

188
00:10:54,427 --> 00:10:59,067
Speaker 3: test entry. It's maybe it's a bit of a lolly

189
00:10:59,187 --> 00:11:04,307
Speaker 3: scramble under number three. And I didn't have Henry Nichols

190
00:11:04,507 --> 00:11:07,147
Speaker 3: making my top twenty, but I think he actually will.

191
00:11:07,387 --> 00:11:09,627
Speaker 3: I think he probably will scrape into it. I think

192
00:11:10,667 --> 00:11:15,347
Speaker 3: guys like AJS Patel and Eat Sody might be dreadfully unlucky.

193
00:11:15,467 --> 00:11:17,187
Speaker 3: And you'll see some of you guys on there, like

194
00:11:18,187 --> 00:11:22,787
Speaker 3: Zach Folks, Muhammed A Bass. I think, you know, probably

195
00:11:22,947 --> 00:11:27,587
Speaker 3: Miss Reese marry you. I'm guessing a bit here, piney

196
00:11:27,587 --> 00:11:30,067
Speaker 3: and taking a few punts, but that's probably the way

197
00:11:30,067 --> 00:11:31,187
Speaker 3: I'm looking at it at the moment.

198
00:11:31,467 --> 00:11:34,187
Speaker 2: Educated punts. There's always from you, Dylan. People can read

199
00:11:34,427 --> 00:11:37,667
Speaker 2: your full list if they subscribe to the Bounce. Always

200
00:11:37,667 --> 00:11:40,187
Speaker 2: love chatting cricket with you, mate, even if it is

201
00:11:40,307 --> 00:11:43,387
Speaker 2: now winter eve I think winter officially starts tomorrow, but

202
00:11:43,427 --> 00:11:45,027
Speaker 2: always great getting cricket with you mate.

203
00:11:45,227 --> 00:11:47,547
Speaker 3: Yeah, you too piney. Thank you, no, thank you mate.

204
00:11:47,547 --> 00:11:50,907
Speaker 2: That is Dylan Cleaver. You can read him. He's got

205
00:11:50,947 --> 00:11:55,827
Speaker 2: a subscribe and newsletter called The Bounce, which is tremendous,

206
00:11:55,907 --> 00:12:01,827
Speaker 2: just terrific, really incisive sports writing drops into your email

207
00:12:02,027 --> 00:12:05,507
Speaker 2: in box three or four times a week, depending on

208
00:12:05,667 --> 00:12:09,067
Speaker 2: what's going on. I always love reading Dylan Cleaver's stuff

209
00:12:09,387 --> 00:12:11,787
Speaker 2: The Bounce. If you want to subscribe, it's really cheap too.

210
00:12:12,547 --> 00:12:15,267
Speaker 2: I would say cheap. The writing superb, but it's you know,

211
00:12:15,387 --> 00:12:18,067
Speaker 2: for what you get the Bounce, just google it.

212
00:12:18,787 --> 00:12:23,787
Speaker 1: Subscribe Cracker For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine,

213
00:12:23,907 --> 00:12:27,187
Speaker 1: listen live to news Talk said B weekends from midday,

214
00:12:27,467 --> 00:12:29,547
Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio