1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: So the Polly's got themselves in another not over Palestine. 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: Yesterday's Warbrick reminded us all yet again the composure and 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: maturity aren't who Forte actually got booted from the house. 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: Chris Hipkins tried to make it political by suggesting active 5 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: vetoing the government's move to declare statehood. Deputy Prime Minister 6 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: David Seymour back with this, good morning. 7 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 2: Good morning makee. 8 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: I was watching, as I always do because I'm a 9 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: tragic but I thought, you point about the scarves is right? 10 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: What are the rules in Parliament around the scarfs? So 11 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: she drapes a scarf around the back of a seat. 12 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: You raise it brownly, goes good point. Suddenly she wraps 13 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: it around a neck. What's all that about? 14 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: Well, the point is you're supposed to come to Parliament, 15 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: set aside all personal and private interest and debate the 16 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: ideas rather than the person. Our Parliament's evolved a whole 17 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 2: lot of rules over the years, actually over hundreds of 18 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: years to make sure that you can actually have a 19 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: debate on the facts rather than really a circus where 20 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: people get up and do hakka display banners. You know 21 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: you can have that, but it just attracts from the 22 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: actual discussion of ideas that we're supposed to promote. 23 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: You're part of the problem with Palestinian debate, and I 24 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,639 Speaker 1: suppose it's been as old as time, but you get people, 25 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: unfortunately like Chloe, who lose the plot. And that's the 26 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: difficulty of the debate, isn't You can't have a debate 27 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: because there'll be someone in the room like her that 28 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: goes nuts. 29 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 2: Well, I thought yesterday Chloe Swarbrick, we kind of reached peak. Chloe. 30 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: You had the moral supremacy, just like all extremists, the 31 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: idea that your cause is so right you don't have 32 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 2: to follow the rules. You can just assert it over 33 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: everybody else, even if it stops the institution functioning. And 34 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 2: I just make the point that, you know, how can 35 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: you call for an international rules based order when you 36 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: can't follow the basic rules in your own workplace. I mean, 37 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: she's been a member of Parliament for more than half 38 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,639 Speaker 2: her life. As far as I can tell, she should 39 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: be able to debate on the issues, and if she can't, 40 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: she should be asking why am I not persuading people? No? 41 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: Shouldjeria back down? I mean he booted her up for 42 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: the week now, if she comes back and says sorry, 43 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: which I don't know whether she will or not, she 44 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: can come back today. Is that fair? Yeah? 45 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: I mean that's usually been the way it works. I mean, obviously, 46 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: you know, you've got to say that the speaker's right, 47 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: and I support his decision, so I'm not going to 48 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: comment on whether he should or shouldn't. But basically, the 49 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: point is to restore order in the house. So if 50 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: someone's willing to do that, then you should usually allow them. 51 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: Weird thing with Hipkins yesterday, who's claiming you're vetoing the 52 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: government recognizing the Palestinian state. Your claim is that Harmas 53 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: need to be demilitarized. Does that indicate that Hipkins is 54 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: happy for Hamas not to be demilitarized and therefore you 55 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: should get on with it? Is that what I'm reading 56 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: from what he said? 57 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, first of all, Chriss Hipkins doesn't know 58 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: what's happening in cabinet. The people of New Zealand dejected 59 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: him from cabinet because frankly, he was a bit useless 60 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: and was still paying off all the debty racked up, 61 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 2: among other costs imposed on society. But you know what 62 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: is happening is the government has said we are going 63 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: to over the next few weeks come to a position 64 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 2: that takes into account all of the facts. It's not 65 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: as simple as just saying, look, yep, we want to 66 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: be friends with terrorists tomorrow. There have to be a 67 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: series of conditions. If his position is just reward terrorism 68 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: and make friends with Hamas, then that's yet another reason 69 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 2: to work out and win the election next year. 70 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: Here's the weird thing for me as a person that 71 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: you political classes. I mean, what do you think is 72 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: going to change here? I mean what literally changed? So 73 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: you today? There we go, we recognize the Palestinian state. 74 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: What happens nothing. 75 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure that the people in the Middle East, 76 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: the thing they've really been waiting for for the last 77 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: four thousand years is for New Zealand to take a position. 78 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: I mean, come on, it is ultimately a question of 79 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: New Zealand being comfortable with itself rather than having a 80 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: material impact on what happens over there. Nonetheless, I think 81 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 2: it's important that our country actually does uphold good values, 82 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: and you don't do that by simply responding to emotion, 83 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: which I understand. I understand people are seeing this stuff 84 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: on Instagram, and they're seeing it on TikTok and on 85 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: this six o'clock news every night. I get it, But 86 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: the issue is not to be the most sort of 87 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: virtue signaling person to demonstrate your own moral supremacy by 88 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 2: saying that you have a spine. What Chloe really needs 89 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: to see as a brain so that we can come 90 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: to a solution that is workable and that respects the 91 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: rights and values of all the people involved, including of 92 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: course a democratic country that has been under attack and 93 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: continues to have its citizens held as hostages. Those facts 94 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: matter too, and I think if you're prepared to have 95 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: a proper discussion, you can get to that. But yesterday 96 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: we saw people who, as you hinted before, are actually 97 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: sabotaging the ability to do it through their own moral righteousness. 98 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: Appreciate it, right, David say more. 99 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 100 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: news Talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 101 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: the podcast iHeartRadio.