1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Papal politics well underway now that Pope Francis has been 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: laid to rest your purists, they argue the Vatican's gone 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: a bit woke. Too much focus on inclusion and diversity, 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: not enough talk about the Bible and how it can 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: be quite well strict actually on a lot of social stuff. 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: The conclave must start by May tenth at the latest. 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: Our Rome correspondent Joe McKenna is at the Vatican for 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: us this morning. Joe, Welcome to the show. 9 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: Hello Ryanhi, very. 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Well, thank you and nice to have you at the 11 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,279 Speaker 1: Vatican for us. So this is all starting to get 12 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: a bit political. What actually happens now and when does 13 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: the conclave have to start? 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: Well, the politics, of course is fascinating. It's very medieval. 15 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: After the pope's death, the conclave has to start within 16 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: fifteen to two days, so we're expecting that to get underway, 17 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: probably Monday or Tuesday next week. 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: What do you rate the chances of them going even 19 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: more progressive than from answers was or do you think 20 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: it's going to go the other way? And Elena bit 21 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: more conservative. 22 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: Look, it's an interesting time and the conservatives were very angry, 23 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 2: very upset with Pope Francis, even though he was so 24 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 2: loved and so popular. You're right, as you said earlier, 25 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: there was a concern that he was too ambiguous on 26 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: things like gay rights and the role of women in 27 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 2: the church, and whether divorces should be allowed to have communion. 28 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: They didn't like it. They didn't like him being buried 29 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 2: in a very simple coffin. They didn't like his informality. 30 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: They didn't like the fact that he gave up all 31 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: the traditional robes and the papal apartment and decided to 32 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: live out the back in a little tiny room in 33 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: the cars of Santa Mata. So these conservatives are pushing 34 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: back big time, and there is a lot of toing 35 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: and froing going on behind the scenes right now. The 36 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 2: other thing that's interesting, I ran into a Vatican insider 37 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,279 Speaker 2: last night who had a scene your position no longer, 38 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: and he told me off the record, the Italians want 39 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: to see a European pope. They want to see an 40 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 2: Italian pope. And even though the Italians don't have a 41 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: huge number in terms of the total electors, there are 42 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: only about sixteen Italians, he said, they have enormous influence. 43 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: They see it as a family business, and they didn't 44 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: like the fact that some outsider came in from Argentina 45 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: and shook things up. 46 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: That's me, Joe. It's interesting because there's one hundred I mean, 47 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: just the word family business and Italian. It's a dangerous combinent, 48 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: dangerous combination. Anyway, the one hundred and thirty cardinals who 49 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: were there, I was reading yesterday that you know, obviously 50 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: Francis appointed a lot of them, and a lot of 51 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: them don't you know each other. They've never meet each 52 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: other before. They're from far flying parts of the world. 53 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: This is almost going to be like the first day 54 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: of school when they get together. 55 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very good way of putting it. They've 56 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: had a couple of meetings already, but things will really 57 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: crank up tomorrow. They've got this old fashioned thing where 58 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: they don't really like to say too much before the 59 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: funeral itself, but things will really crank up. And as 60 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 2: you said, you know, there are a lot of newcomers. They're 61 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: being sworn in before. They have what's called these congregations 62 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:22,559 Speaker 2: where it's really an opportunity for the players to showcase 63 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 2: what their papacy would be like. And that's what really 64 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 2: happened with Pope Francis when he gave a speech way 65 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: back in twenty thirteen. It really moved the cardinals to 66 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: get behind him because he had a vision for how 67 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 2: he wanted to take the church. Not all of them 68 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: were happy with what happened, but that's really what happened 69 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: behind closed doors. And so we've had some of the 70 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: cardinals meeting, not all of them there that will step 71 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: up tomorrow. And don't forget the cardinals that cannot vote 72 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: in the conclave also take part in these meetings. So 73 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: you've got the elderly cardinals over the age of eighty 74 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: who will also have some influence on the newcomers in 75 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 2: terms of the direction of the conclave. 76 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: Joe, thank you very much for that. Great to have 77 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: you on the show. As always, Joe mckinna, our Rome 78 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: correspondent at the Vatican. 79 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live 80 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 2: to News Talks it'd be from five am weekdays, or 81 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 2: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.