1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwill. He writes an article for a magazine, gets attention, 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: and he gets a book deal. Off the back of that, 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: he writes The Tipping Point. It goes off from there. 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: It's tours at six more best selling books, and we 5 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: got up with them last time in twenty seventeen, as 6 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: latest as Revenge of the Tipping Point. It explores old 7 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: and new tipping points. Twenty five years on and Malcolm 8 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: Gladwell is, whether it's from New York, good morning, good morning, 9 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: the twenty five years? Are you celebrating the twenty five 10 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: years since the very start of this wonderment that is 11 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: your life? 12 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: I am? I am, yes it is. Which one is 13 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 2: that twenty five years? 14 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Is? 15 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: What is that silver? I've forgotten what that anniversary is. 16 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: I think it is silver. It's not golden, but silver. 17 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: You'll take silver twenty five It takes silver. Here's the funny. 18 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: Here's a funny thing about it. When I read the 19 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: book when it came out originally, I for whatever reason, 20 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: had no concept of how old you might have been. 21 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: Comparatively speaking, you were young. How was it dealing with 22 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: that level of what I'm assuming was life changing success? 23 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, you know it was. It had no I 24 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 2: expected to have a much greater impact on my life 25 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: than it did. Nothing, you know, nothing changes Like my 26 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 2: friends were still the same. I lived in the same apartment. 27 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: I you know, it was. It was surprising, a surprisingly 28 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: kind of I mean, I suppose it it it it 29 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 2: it it changed. People would return my phone calls and 30 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 2: I wanted to interview them for stories. So that was big. 31 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: But and uh, it freed me up because I began 32 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 2: to I lost my anxiety about whether my writing would 33 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:38,199 Speaker 2: would would please an audience, you know. So that made 34 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: that That made that allowed me to be a bit 35 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: more adventurous. But it didn't otherwise have much of It 36 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,279 Speaker 2: didn't create the change that one would have thought. 37 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: Although that will be down in some way to you 38 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: because presumably you could have bought a bigger apartment and 39 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: changed your friends and your life. 40 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: I eventually did. But no, the change, the friends part. 41 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 2: It's funny. You know, you look at you know, writers, 42 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: successful writer are not true celebrities. So all of us 43 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: look at true celebrities and we assume that on the 44 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 2: occasion of their celebrity, their life turned upside down. But 45 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 2: I think as a general rule that's not what happens. 46 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: I think you you know, I was talking to some 47 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: friend about of mine about he knew a guy who 48 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 2: was one of the has become one of those tech billionaires. 49 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 2: And I said, well, who is friends? And my friend said, oh, 50 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: just guys you knew in high school. Wow. It's like, oh, 51 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: he's like the rest of you know. I don't think 52 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 2: that's normal. It's like totally normal, Like, well, well, who 53 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 2: else would his friends be? Right? You know, they don't 54 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: cease to be his friends because he is a billion 55 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: and they only have, you know, a very modest amount. 56 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 2: There's he still has the same things in common with him. 57 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: I's just I guess he's picking up the check for dinner. 58 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: I guess so, But and take it would be different. 59 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: I'm suspecting because the reason these guys got successful in 60 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: TICK is because, like followed their passion. The fact that 61 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: money came along is of no consequence to them, because 62 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: what they were doing was being geeky and techy, and 63 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: that's what that truly dried the which I suppose applies 64 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: to you as well. Do you think if it hadn't 65 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: been tipping point, it would have been something else? You 66 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: would have got there anyway. 67 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 2: Probably not. I don't know. I mean, it's an impossible 68 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 2: question to answer. I'm powerfully convinced of the randomness of success. 69 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: So I don't think there's anything inevitable about anyone's success. 70 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: I think, if you're you know, so, my best guess 71 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: is that I got spectacularly lucky. I mean, I read 72 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: lots and lots and lots of books which I think 73 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: are first class and that sell vanishingly small amounts of copies. 74 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: So I don't think that writing a brilliant book is 75 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: is a guarantee of success. I think, you know, to 76 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: be successful, you must have some healthy doll up of luck, 77 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 2: and I had a healthy doll up of luck for 78 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: I I don't particularly understand and so and after that 79 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: it becomes in writing books has becomes a self fulfilling 80 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: prophecy after a while, right, I mean, you know your 81 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: publisher promotes your book because you've sold a lot of books, 82 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: and your books you saw, you let's set a lot 83 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: of books. So it's like you no longer used to 84 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: you know, am I deserving of all this? You know? 85 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: I've lost track of that. 86 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: Do you second guess yourself? Though, because once you got success, 87 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: do you think, well, it's the sophomore album discussion, isn't 88 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: it Like you know, everyone gets a hit and then 89 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 1: hang on sophomore album. So when you get to the 90 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: sophomore are you thinking I'm genuinely telling that this is 91 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: bound to go well or you just don't have a clue. 92 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 2: I did have anxiety by my second book, yes, along 93 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 2: those lines, but no, my perspective has been that what 94 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: the last thing you should do is change. What you 95 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: should do is what you've always done, and you should 96 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: continue to write the things that make you happy, and 97 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: that if you're lucky, you know some number of people 98 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: will be interesting in the same things you're interested in. 99 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 2: You have to have confidence, in other words, that your 100 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: interests are shared by others. And I think that one 101 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: of the things I've always tried to do, even more 102 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 2: so as I've gotten older, is that I do a 103 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: lot of I do all my own reporting, and I 104 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 2: get out of my comfort zone as much as I can. 105 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: I try to talk to as many people as I 106 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: can and spend time with people, and I think guards 107 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 2: against the kind of of narrowness that ends a That's 108 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: what ends at creative person's career is when they start 109 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: to be to live inside their own little bubble and 110 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: never leave it. 111 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: You must always be inquisitive. But I've always argued that 112 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: being inquisitive is a God given gift. You are born 113 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: with it. 114 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. I also think you can develop habits and disciplines 115 00:05:52,120 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 2: that encourage your curiosity that you you know that there 116 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 2: are routines you can have. So for example, I've been 117 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: doing this podcast Vision's History for ten years and I 118 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: do ten some of between ten and twenty episodes a year. Now, 119 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 2: that's a routine that forces me to be curious. I 120 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: have to come up with ideas for fifteen or twenty episodes, 121 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: and that's a discipline that there's no way to do 122 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 2: that just by interrogating my own thoughts, right, yeah, exactly, 123 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: I have to go out in the world if you've 124 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: got that kind of a obligation. So that's a structural 125 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: part of my life that forces me to be curious. 126 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: Okay, these podcasts smell confessonate me, because what do you 127 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: reckon podcasts are doing or have done, or will do 128 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: to books. 129 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 2: I think enhance in some sense, enhance them because there 130 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: are another mechanism by which people can build audiences and 131 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 2: develop material. So if you think about it, historically, what 132 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: magazines did was a they were away for authors to 133 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: develop their abilities, to test ideas and to develop audiences. 134 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 2: That's what they did. They were like a farm system 135 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: for books. And then when you had when you had 136 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: an idea that made sense to you and an audience 137 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: that knew who you were, and you developed as a writer, 138 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: you went out and you wrote books. Well, the magazine 139 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: world has kind of dried up and something had to 140 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 2: take its place, and I think it's a podcasts that 141 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: taken its place. So I find a lot of ideas 142 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: that are found in my latest book, Revenge the Tipping Point. 143 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: Some of those ideas were developed as a podcasts first, 144 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 2: or inspired by work I did in the podcast, and 145 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: I was able to test out concept, theory and idea 146 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: a story and see whether it made sense, see whether 147 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: people were interested in it, see whether it it had legs, 148 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 2: and then I was able to take what I learned 149 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: and use that in a book. So I think that 150 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: there's a there's a very there's a wonderful kind of 151 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 2: synergy between those two four. 152 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: The stories from Tipping Point to Revenge of the Tipping Point. 153 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: In a why you can argue, are the same stories. Therefore, 154 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: nothing's happened in the ensuing twenty five years. Weird stuff, tiles, 155 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: stories made up, It still all happens. We're exactly the 156 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: same as we were twenty five years ago. Is that 157 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: fair or not fair? 158 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 2: Well, we live as we did twenty five years ago 159 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: in a world that is rife with epidemic change. I 160 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: think that we're quicker to recognize it today, and I 161 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: think the nature of the epidemics around us has They've 162 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 2: grown more frequent and more complex, But fundamentally we are 163 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: still you know, it's not like the Internet invented contagious 164 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 2: social phenomenon, right, Some people act as if it did, 165 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 2: and they forget that, Oh no, no, that was happening before 166 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: the Internet. It's just the Internet maybe was an accelerant 167 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: to those kinds of things, or it made them appear, 168 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: move faster and be bigger than they might have otherwise, 169 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: but it didn't fundamentally change the way human beings interact 170 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 2: with each other. And you know, contagion is the idea 171 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: that we would be influenced by others, catch behaviors and 172 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 2: ideas from others in the way that we catch a 173 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 2: cold from them is something that's fundamental to who we are. 174 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: What is new is how profoundly kind of a historical 175 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 2: some of our perspectives on our world are. And one 176 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,479 Speaker 2: of the advantages of being an old guy like I am, 177 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: and you're kind of I don't I don't think you're 178 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: my age, but I think you're kind of an old guy. 179 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: With those of us who are old guys, you know, 180 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: we have some perspective we can tell our children. You know, 181 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 2: it was ever Thus. 182 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: That's a funny guess. So how old are you? 183 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 2: I got you at fifty, I'm sixty. 184 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: One, sixty one, I'm fifty nine. Let me just ask 185 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: you this because I got to wind this up, But 186 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: let me ask what I listened to your thing with 187 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: Paul Simon, who I've been endlessly fascinated with my entire life. 188 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: Me too. 189 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: And you started off with the question about critics. He 190 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: doesn't read the reviews, he's not interested. You started off 191 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: with your question saying you do you get a lot 192 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: of difficult Do the critics bother you in any way, 193 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: shape or form, now, given what you've managed to achieve normally? 194 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: Do they not bother me? I don't think they matter. 195 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: I mean I actually weirdly think they did matter when 196 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 2: I was starting out. I think your review in the 197 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: New York Times in nineteen ninety nine or two thousand matter. 198 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 2: It was a essentral But now the kind of the 199 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 2: media world has been chopped into a thousand pieces, so 200 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: any one bit of criticism makes no more than a ripple. 201 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: So it's not something I spend a lifetime on. 202 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: Fun game. I think about this all the time. Paul 203 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: Simon or Bob Dylan, greatest writers of our age, not 204 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: even close. 205 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: Paul Simon, Yeah, Al Simon, I agree, it's not. I mean, 206 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 2: the longevity is career. It's funny. I was just talking 207 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 2: to a Kiwi about this. Why I believe Nick Willis 208 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: is the greatest miler of his generation. Why because because 209 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 2: Nick Willis ran sub formulate miles for twenty semi consecutive years, 210 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: and at some point you have to understand that longevity 211 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: is a greater achievement than peak performance. He was never 212 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: the fastest in the world, but he ver close to 213 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 2: being the fastest girl. But he was. He managed to 214 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 2: sustain world class level performance through his late teens, twenties, thirties, 215 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 2: and early forties. You must at a certain point, understand 216 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: what an accomplishment that is. 217 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: I would as Paul Simon, I would also argue with Simon, 218 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: not just with Willis, not just middle distance, but he 219 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: went long to Simon went Graceland, Africa, different genres over 220 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: a long period of time as well. 221 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Nick. The idea somewhere Nick Willis should be 222 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 2: very plea that we are comparing him to Paul Simon. 223 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: I reason Paul Simon of middle distance running. 224 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: Tell you what, Given we're both aging so brilliantly on 225 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: the fiftieth anniversary of Tipping Point, we'll get back together 226 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: and talk some more. 227 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: How's that from our nursing homes? 228 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: Exactly? All right? Might go, well, appreciate it. Welcome, glad, 229 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: we'll the Revenge of the Tipping Point. 230 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 231 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 232 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.