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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine

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Speaker 1: from Newstalks EDB.

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Speaker 2: Northampton's twenty year old loose forward Henry Pollock is the

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Speaker 2: bolt in the British and Irish Lions touring squad for

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Speaker 2: Australia in July and August.

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Speaker 3: Change those extra few meters Tyler hit that line, perfecting

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Speaker 3: Henry target us go.

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Speaker 2: And that burgeoning refut Jason grows and grows.

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Speaker 4: There's the celebration for t less.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 3: If I'm wondering what all the talk is above, just

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Speaker 3: sit back and look, and there's a brilliant, brilliant line.

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Speaker 3: He packed himself to beat Prendergast on the out side.

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Speaker 3: Prendergasta's be disabineded with attack of effort, but this guy

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Speaker 3: has pass, he has power and he has the confidence

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Speaker 3: to pluck his ears back and go for it. Watch

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Speaker 3: the response here. Twenty years of age.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he only turned twenty in January, Henry Pollock and

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Speaker 2: had played only one Premiership game before the start of

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Speaker 2: the season. Let's bring in the BBC's James Burridge to

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Speaker 2: talk more about this. Let's start with Henry Pollock, shall we. James.

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Speaker 2: I know you've spent a bit of time with him

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Speaker 2: today doing some media after his naming in the squad.

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Speaker 2: Was his selection a surprise? Is he a balter in

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Speaker 2: the true sense of that word.

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Speaker 4: In a funny sort of way, Jason, I think we

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Speaker 4: were expecting it. Yes, he's a bolster in the traditional sense.

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Speaker 4: He's someone who only made his debut for his club

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Speaker 4: last year. This time last year he was playing in

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Speaker 4: the under twenties. He's played thirty minutes of Test rugby,

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Speaker 4: played outstanding the Wealth Northampton the Championshi Cup last week.

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Speaker 4: And the thing about Henry is that he talks a

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Speaker 4: very good game, but he can walk it as well.

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Speaker 4: Like when he made his Test debut for England, he

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Speaker 4: went to Tommy Freeman and went, I'm going to score

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Speaker 4: a try on my debut and I'm going to score

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Speaker 4: it on the wing. And that's exactly what he did.

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Speaker 4: And whenever you watch Henry talk about it, watch some

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Speaker 4: of the footage which is really insightful with him. The

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Speaker 4: way he communicates. He's not backwards about coming forwards. He

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Speaker 4: believes in his ability to change games, to dictate games,

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Speaker 4: and he backs it up every time that it would

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Speaker 4: be different if he talked a great game and then

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Speaker 4: got sent off or missed the tackle or dropped a

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Speaker 4: ball or gave away a penalty. And he hasn't really

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Speaker 4: done that. He's backed it up game after game he's

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Speaker 4: got better. So at the moment he's on an upward

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Speaker 4: trajectory and Andy Farrell couldn't not pick him. So, yes,

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Speaker 4: he is a bolter, but he's not because he's been

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Speaker 4: getting better every week.

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Speaker 2: If you see what I mean, I know exactly what

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Speaker 2: you mean. Yeah, sometimes people just present an irresistible case.

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Speaker 2: Or what's he like is he is confident off the

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Speaker 2: grass as he clearly is on it.

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Speaker 4: He is confident. He's a great lad. He's very polite. Yes,

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Speaker 4: he's a bit brash. Yes he's a bit loud. Some

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Speaker 4: of it's front, frankly. Part of it is this insatiable

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Speaker 4: character that he has. He comes from a great family

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Speaker 4: his and you know, sport is in their blood. His

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Speaker 4: mum was a massive triathlete and when he was a kid,

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Speaker 4: she would be getting up him, his sisters, his brother

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Speaker 4: angers at ridiculous times in the morning to do you know,

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Speaker 4: Paul sprints at five six am in the morning and

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Speaker 4: they'd be doing that three or four times a week

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Speaker 4: before they did anything else, before they went to school,

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Speaker 4: before they went into rugby training. You know, his brother's

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Speaker 4: a golfer, a very good golfer, his sisters a sprinter

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Speaker 4: for the sprinter, and Pollock's based level of fitness as

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Speaker 4: a result of all of this is unbelievably high because

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Speaker 4: of the training he did with his his brother, his

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Speaker 4: when his mum. That's why if you look at the

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Speaker 4: way he scores his tries, his athleticism, his fitness is

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Speaker 4: ridiculous because of his because of what he did as

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Speaker 4: a kid. There's a lesson here. I think if you

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Speaker 4: want your kids to be really fighting fit and have

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Speaker 4: a really good base level of fitness and be a triathletes,

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Speaker 4: because that's what Henry was.

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Speaker 2: Fantastic. Well, I want to talk about some of the

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Speaker 2: others who run this thirty eight man squad in a moment,

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Speaker 2: but you often look at those who haven't made it,

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Speaker 2: who are the unluckiest players.

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Speaker 4: I think Darty Graham, the Scotland wing, will probably feel

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Speaker 4: a bit hard done by mack Hanson, has been selected.

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Speaker 4: Great player mack Hanson obviously you guys know them well

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Speaker 4: down under. But Darcy Graham, he does have. The Lions

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Speaker 4: don't have bags of insatiable pace, if you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean. They don't have ludicrous pace in their back three.

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Speaker 4: They I mean Tommy Freeman, you and Vander Murder, James Layer,

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Speaker 4: they're all quick. Darty Graham, he's agile, quick, he's got

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Speaker 4: incredible footwork. I think are the great wingers like Jason

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Speaker 4: Robinson for the lines down the years, not comparing him

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Speaker 4: with Darty Graham. But Darty Greham will feel hard done

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Speaker 4: by that he hasn't been selected. I think maybe you

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Speaker 4: know George Ford potentially, you know he's about to win

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Speaker 4: one hundred caps for England, but he's never gone on

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Speaker 4: a Lions tour and they've gone with Finn Smith, Finn

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Speaker 4: Russell and Marcus Smith as that potential third ten stroke fifteen.

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Speaker 4: So I suppose George Fall will be frustrated up there.

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Speaker 4: Jack Willis potentially, I mean, he's playing in rugby in

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Speaker 4: France to lose. I think it was always going to

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Speaker 4: be difficult because there's so much competition in that back row.

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Speaker 4: But I suppose off the top of my head I

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Speaker 4: would go Darty Greham. And the point is we're still

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Speaker 4: quite early in the process. It was still six weeks

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Speaker 4: away from that first game. Also, I think it is

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Speaker 4: so there's still a chance for this tour to change,

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Speaker 4: for the composition of the squad to change. I think

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Speaker 4: the average is five or six players get injured anyway,

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Speaker 4: So even though this toll party's been announced by Farrell,

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Speaker 4: come that first Test against Argentina and Dublin and then

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Speaker 4: the trip down Under to Australia, this squad could look

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Speaker 4: very different.

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Speaker 2: Excuse me, Liz Zoman. On the fly House, you mentioned

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Speaker 2: Dathan Smith and MICUs Smith out of England and Scotland's

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Speaker 2: Fan Russell. Do you like that mix of teams?

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Speaker 4: I mean he was spoiled for choice in a way. Farrell.

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Speaker 4: I still think his son could play a part in

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Speaker 4: this as well. Owen. I mean he's not he hasn't

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Speaker 4: played the game time yet. For me, I think Finn

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Speaker 4: Smith is the starting ten. I think he's proven, he's got,

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Speaker 4: he is in ridiculous form, He's confident and again I

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Speaker 4: talk about upwards trajectory, I think he's on that right now.

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Speaker 4: I don't think Finn Russell had the best six nations.

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Speaker 4: He hasn't been tearing it for Bath. I think the

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Speaker 4: next month will be fascinating because Barth will be going

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Speaker 4: for a Premiership title and Finns Northampton Sayings are going

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Speaker 4: for a European champions Cup title. How will those two

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Speaker 4: individuals fare over the next month. Russell's obviously got stock,

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Speaker 4: haven't he? He's an incredible player, extremely gifted. But I

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Speaker 4: think form is really fascinating and it's also interering how

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Speaker 4: he'll do whichever nine they picked. Do they go for Mitchell,

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Speaker 4: do they go for Gibson Park That partnership is key,

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Speaker 4: and who's going to be the twelve? I think the

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Speaker 4: choice of twelve will be fascinating. Will they go to

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Speaker 4: a pilot too? Will they go Bundy? Aki? All these partnerships,

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Speaker 4: because you know there's a few games, it almost feels

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Speaker 4: a bit like a preseason tour. Before they played the

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Speaker 4: first Test, I played six or seven tests. How they

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Speaker 4: gel with each other at nine, ten and twelve I

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Speaker 4: think will be really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Do you just even listening to your talk about those

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Speaker 2: players and looking at this, at this list of the

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Speaker 2: riches at the hit the disposal of the coaching staff.

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Speaker 2: But I do note and you will have too, just

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Speaker 2: the two Welsh players in the thirty eight that is

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Speaker 2: a low for a Lions tour in the modern era.

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Speaker 2: That must sting. And I guess it's a sign of

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Speaker 2: the times at the moment, but that must stinger Rugby

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Speaker 2: mad Nation like Wiles does it?

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Speaker 4: You bet it does. Yeah, it's really painful to see.

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Speaker 4: I think even in recent times, you know that you

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Speaker 4: have the Jamie Roberts of the world, Mike Fellers that

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Speaker 4: you know, the George North, the battle that Lord have

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Speaker 4: with Israel fell out. I mean for recent lines fans,

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Speaker 4: that was box office And there's two players going and

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Speaker 4: if we're honest, Thomas Williams is probably at this stage

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Speaker 4: third in the pecking order. Might break through, but you

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Speaker 4: don't know, and injuries might play a part in this.

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Speaker 4: Jack Morgan was simply outstanding in the Six Nations the

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Speaker 4: World with a losing team, he played brilliantly. He deserves

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Speaker 4: to be on that tour, so as Williams. He's shown

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Speaker 4: incredible injection of pace and creativity and a girl at scrumhalf.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, it's it's painful, isn't it. I mean, Falatoo

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Speaker 4: didn't make the cuts. He did actually play pretty well

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Speaker 4: during the Six Nations, but you know, it's interesting that

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Speaker 4: Farrell hasn't got too many number eight at his dispose. Okay,

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Speaker 4: Doris is injured out of the tour altogether, but yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's sad that there's any two Welsh players going. There's

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Speaker 4: no other word for it. Really.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned Kyle of Doris there. I guess he would

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Speaker 2: have been a captaincy candidate as well had he been

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Speaker 2: fit to tour. Marotji is the skipper. Is that a

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Speaker 2: popular choice?

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Speaker 4: I think it was. It wasn't it was the only choice.

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Speaker 4: I think it was just a blatantly obvious choice. Staring

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Speaker 4: Andy Farrell in the face. I think he probably would

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Speaker 4: have gone with He probably would have gone with Toji regardless.

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Speaker 4: I think Toji's got a lot of experienced third lines

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Speaker 4: tour captain for his club, captain for his country, and

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Speaker 4: he's got the respects in the backing, not just of

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Speaker 4: the England players but those those others around him. And

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Speaker 4: I think he's really he's matured. I think he admitted

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Speaker 4: to himself that the Lioness announcement yesterday, he's less naive

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Speaker 4: and he's seen it all now, Maritoji, and he's this

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Speaker 4: there's a real sense of calmness about a Tooji. One

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Speaker 4: thing he does do is he will the full eighty minutes.

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Speaker 4: There's always been this fascinating kind of reflection on players,

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Speaker 4: do they actually last eighty minutes? England have had this

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Speaker 4: problem that one of the reasons Jamie George actually lost

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Speaker 4: the England captain to you wasn't actually played the full

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Speaker 4: eighty minute. And it's often in those last ten that

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Speaker 4: you need that leadership, you need that understanding. And now

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Speaker 4: Maritoji is also very good communicated with the referees and

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Speaker 4: we've seen in test matches down the years how how

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Speaker 4: fundamental that is.

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Speaker 2: Well, the squad's been named. We look forward to having

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Speaker 2: the British and Irish lines down in our part of

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Speaker 2: the world, just across the Tasman. What would the general

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Speaker 2: expectations be for the British and Irish lines in Australia,

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Speaker 2: James would a three nil series will be expected?

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Speaker 4: Well, a year ago, I think many people perceive wisdom

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Speaker 4: was yeah, that would be the expectation. But obviously what

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Speaker 4: Joe Schmidtz now been able to produce in that last

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Speaker 4: twelve months has been fastating to watch, great to see

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Speaker 4: because you want to see a really strong performing Wallaby's team,

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Speaker 4: don't you You want to be able to what they

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Speaker 4: did against England just demonstrated that you cannot take them,

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Speaker 4: You can't be complacent against them. I think complacency is

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Speaker 4: a big watch word for the Lions because yes, they'll

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Speaker 4: be going down Under. But Joe Schmidt is one of

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Speaker 4: the the He's got one of the best tactical brains

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Speaker 4: in the game, hasn't he. I just remember when he

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Speaker 4: was back, you know, coaching the All Blacks against Arland

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Speaker 4: in the World Cup. Just how he unpicks them then.

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Speaker 4: And I'm sure he'll have some tricks up his sleeve,

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Speaker 4: particularly against Andy Farrell's Lions team as well. So tour

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Speaker 4: victory first and foremost, that's what you want. If it's

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Speaker 4: three mil, that's absolutely fantastic. But I don't think you

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Speaker 4: can take anything for granted.

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Speaker 2: That is certainly the message that Farrell is saying to

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Speaker 2: mauth Water and prospect when this team, as you say,

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Speaker 2: play Argentina first and then he'd down Under for Australia. James,

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Speaker 2: always appreciate your time and expertise. Thanks for joining us

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Speaker 2: across New Zealand.

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Speaker 4: Is always greatest, BGJAS, all the best now, all the best.

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Speaker 2: To you too, mate, James Burridge, there are out of

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Speaker 2: the BBC with a breakdown of the thirty eight man

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Speaker 2: squad that's going to tour Australia. As you heard James

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Speaker 2: mentioned there, they've got a game against the Argentinian side

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Speaker 2: first before they come down and then you look at

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Speaker 2: their schedule. That game against Argentina is on Saturday June

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Speaker 2: twenty one. That's New Zealand times seven in the morning.

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Speaker 2: Then they come down to Australia. They take on the

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Speaker 2: Force in Perth as their first game. Then they head

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Speaker 2: across to Brisbane to take on the Reds, then the Wara, Tarzan, Sydney,

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Speaker 2: the Brumbies and Cameras, so they play all four Super

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Speaker 2: Rugby sides. Then that Australia New Zealand Invitational side that

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Speaker 2: we still don't really know the makeup of, but looking

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Speaker 2: forward to seeing a few non all black New Zealanders

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Speaker 2: in that. And then it's into the Test matches, the

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Speaker 2: first of which on the evening of Saturday July the

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Speaker 2: nineteenth at some Corpse Stadium in Brisbane. Then they play

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Speaker 2: First Nations and PACIFICA fifteen two or three days later.

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Speaker 2: The second Test is at the mcg on the night

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Speaker 2: of Saturday July twenty six, and the tour wraps at

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Speaker 2: a Core Stadium in Sydney on Saturday August. The second look,

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Speaker 2: I mean again, no skin in this game. I don't

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Speaker 2: support Australia, I don't support the British and Irish lines,

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Speaker 2: but goodness me, I'm in front of the TV for

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Speaker 2: those games, and not just the Test matches but the

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Speaker 2: other ones as well. You look at the British and

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Speaker 2: Irish Lions touring side, especially in the backs cheap as,

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Speaker 2: there are some riches for Andy Farrell to select from.

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Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live

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Speaker 1: to News Talk ZEDB weekends from midday or follow the

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Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio