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Speaker 1: We're starting to see what the seventy million dollars major

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Speaker 1: Events funding package buyers. First trunch has been it out.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to get Lincoln Park at Auckland, six

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Speaker 1: sixty and Symphony open at the Christian Stadium. The Ultra

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Speaker 1: Music Festival out of Miami comes to Wellington. Now. Nick

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Speaker 1: Hill is the chief executive of Auckland Unlimited. And as

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Speaker 1: whether's Nick morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Mike.

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Speaker 1: Convince me now because I'm sort of on the side

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Speaker 1: of getting more people here and I understand the methodology

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Speaker 1: around it in the mathematics. But here's my thing. Because

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Speaker 1: they had David Higgins on earlier on this morning, the promoter,

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Speaker 1: and he was trying to explain I looked at the

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Speaker 1: six sixty thing yesterday, right, So six sixty and Symphony. Now,

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Speaker 1: would you sell out christ Church Stadium if you put

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Speaker 1: that on? I think yes you would. And you don't

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Speaker 1: need the government. Why is the government so important?

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Speaker 2: Well, it depends quite often you do need public money.

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Speaker 2: I can't talk about the stadium in christ Church and

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Speaker 2: whether that would sell up without the government. There's certainly

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Speaker 2: an element of risk it. So you know, someone like

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Speaker 2: David who is a bit of a genius has taken

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Speaker 2: awful lot of risk in his life, and the question is,

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Speaker 2: if you want things to happen, how do you underwrite

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Speaker 2: some of that risk? And that's where public funding comes in.

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Speaker 1: So am I being too free market about this? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, so David takes a risk that's on him.

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Speaker 1: That's his business. And when he when the risk pays off,

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Speaker 1: he makes a lot of money. That's business.

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Speaker 2: No, No, you can be free market. There's a problem

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Speaker 2: of free riders around promoting and bringing big things in

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Speaker 2: because there's a lot of benefits that flow to a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of people beyond those that will actually necessarily pay.

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Speaker 2: So how do you how do you get enough investment

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Speaker 2: to get the kind of the level of the event

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Speaker 2: you want to have the impact that not everybody will

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Speaker 2: actually pay to get the benefit of it. It's a

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Speaker 2: tricky economic situation. It's free riding, okay.

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Speaker 1: So when I look at the Ultra Music Festival in Wellington,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, would that have come here anyway?

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Speaker 1: Or we just simply don't know?

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Speaker 2: I like gain, that's not one I know a lot about.

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Speaker 2: But I can talk in the context of Auckland and

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Speaker 2: part of What they are doing with this, which I

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Speaker 2: think is the smart thing, is saying how can you

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Speaker 2: actually make existing events bigger and how would you use

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Speaker 2: additional funding to do that? So things like the Readers

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Speaker 2: and Writers Festival in Auckland is a fantastic event, but

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Speaker 2: can you make it more international? And so the funding

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Speaker 2: that's coming in for that is to try and achieve that.

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Speaker 2: So how do we get Australians to come to Auckland

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Speaker 2: for that? That's our focus on.

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Speaker 1: Something could you present to me in a select committee

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Speaker 1: or at scrutiny week in Parliament numbers that, without shadow

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Speaker 1: of it out go right? The government put an x

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Speaker 1: million and you as a result of that, got y

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Speaker 1: million in and you are materially better off minus the

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Speaker 1: money the government paid for.

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Speaker 2: I could, but you'd have to be patient and you'd

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Speaker 2: have to be prepared to get into some deep economics

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Speaker 2: and then always be gray areas. So for example, what

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Speaker 2: is it worth for the reputation of Auckland to be

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Speaker 2: in someone's mind as a place to visit? So sale

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Speaker 2: GP seems incredible images around the world which sales GP

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Speaker 2: use actually well beyond our event, and that people look

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Speaker 2: at that and go awkward. That looks an amazing place.

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Speaker 2: I'm into sailing and yachting. That's worth that's worth something,

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Speaker 2: but very hard. You can quantify it, you can and bounds,

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Speaker 2: but you know, at the end of the day people

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Speaker 2: will be skeptical and say, well, it's leaved to the market,

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Speaker 2: but it wouldn't happen if you just left it to

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Speaker 2: the market.

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Speaker 1: How many events do you reckon then become events or

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Speaker 1: happen because and they're really not that good, but it

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Speaker 1: gets that whole community spirit vibe going because the government

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Speaker 1: are involved. In other words, you do stuff because you've

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Speaker 1: got the money.

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Speaker 2: There's always a risk of that, but that happens in

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Speaker 2: the private sector as well. You're always taking risks around

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Speaker 2: things where you can't always be sure, and with public

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Speaker 2: money there's always going to be a degree of sloppiness

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Speaker 2: and bureaucracy that creeps into it. I think it's a

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Speaker 2: question of overall, how does your portfolio of things perform,

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Speaker 2: and you know what's your overall benefit, And we're pretty

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Speaker 2: rigorous in measuring that. Some people use really big numbers

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Speaker 2: around events, we actually use very conservative numbers. We use

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Speaker 2: a highly regarded film called fresh Infolk, who use a

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Speaker 2: very quantitative method and we kind of assume some of

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Speaker 2: the other benefits on top, but don't quantify them. So

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Speaker 2: we try to be as rigorous as we can because

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Speaker 2: we think at the end of the day, we've got

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Speaker 2: to be credible and we've got to have integrity and

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Speaker 2: be consistent. And yeah, I suppose that's as far as

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Speaker 2: I can do.

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Speaker 1: How much? How much are we doing this simply because

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Speaker 1: everyone else does, because that's the standard line they use

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Speaker 1: as well, are you look at Australia Melbourne does this

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Speaker 1: all the time as though that's a thing.

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Speaker 2: Well it's true.

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Speaker 1: Well, I know it doesn't make it right.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think if you were to going look at

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Speaker 2: Melbourne and what Jeff Kennett did, sold all those assets

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Speaker 2: and reinvested things like power stations and reinvested into facilities

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Speaker 2: and transport and importantly major events. So major events are

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Speaker 2: just we think of it as how you drive demand

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Speaker 2: and shape demand and the kind of people you want

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Speaker 2: when you want them where you want them. So you know,

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Speaker 2: if you were running a business, you do have you

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Speaker 2: do spend money on marketing to drive your top line results,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of this is about doing that for

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Speaker 2: cities and Doc Wayne Brown is a real skipt because

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Speaker 2: you'd know he's a piscal conservative and he's been persuaded.

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Speaker 2: His issue is how do you where does the funding

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Speaker 2: come from? And he argues for a bad levy, which

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Speaker 2: is a sound economic argument, which you know I'd completely support.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the weird thing about that. I don't understand

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Speaker 1: why the government doesn't support it.

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Speaker 2: Given that, I don't understand either.

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Speaker 1: So on one hand they're handing out money, but on

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Speaker 1: the other hand they're not bringing it in an area

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Speaker 1: they could. Well.

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Speaker 2: The other thing is the government more than ninety percent

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Speaker 2: of public money is raised by the government spent out

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Speaker 2: at Wellington. Well, we're interested in is mechanisms at a

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Speaker 2: lay to raise money locally, to invest locally through an

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Speaker 2: industry that helps to grow the industry, and that's what

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Speaker 2: a levy would do.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. Good on you and appreciate it very much, Nick Hill,

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Speaker 1: that was better than I thought. Actually I was. I

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Speaker 1: know he was. He's excellent. They gave me a very

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Speaker 1: good insight Because I'm on the fence on this. I

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Speaker 1: fully get that we need events. Events are greats and

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Speaker 1: that whole thing about you know, someone in the world

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Speaker 1: looks at Auckland or Wellington or Queenstown and goes wow,

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Speaker 1: I might go there fantastic, fully get it. But I

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Speaker 1: also see just yet another government slash fund here well

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Speaker 1: the whole sea, I mean, some of the events they're

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Speaker 1: talking about, iron Man, New Zealand and Taupo. It's already on.

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Speaker 1: It's it's been on for years. The fact that suddenly

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Speaker 1: government money turns up does make any difference unless you

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Speaker 1: argue nix line, which is you make it a better

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Speaker 1: event or a bigger event, Golden she is. It's already on,

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Speaker 1: it's been gone for decades. A Tiger rally in Dunedin,

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Speaker 1: as in the motor cars that's been on as well.

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Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying. So, I mean it's just

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Speaker 1: all these events that have already been on are suddenly

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Speaker 1: on again, but with government money. So what have we

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Speaker 1: gained out of there?

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