1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:11,973 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B. 2 00:00:12,373 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio, 3 00:00:19,293 --> 00:00:21,453 Speaker 1: Straight Down the. 4 00:00:20,493 --> 00:00:28,693 Speaker 2: Middle Sky, try to. 5 00:00:28,733 --> 00:00:32,853 Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every end goal. It's Rugby 6 00:00:32,853 --> 00:00:36,533 Speaker 1: Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Navier powered by News 7 00:00:36,573 --> 00:00:37,093 Speaker 1: Talks at B. 8 00:00:37,653 --> 00:00:41,053 Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Habit Health, Visio book 9 00:00:41,093 --> 00:00:45,093 Speaker 2: today and stay in the game. Elliott Smith with me 10 00:00:45,413 --> 00:00:49,813 Speaker 2: Liam Napier. We have our semi finalists sorted for Super 11 00:00:49,893 --> 00:00:53,133 Speaker 2: Rugby Naps. But boy, it's been a busy Monday morning 12 00:00:53,493 --> 00:00:56,213 Speaker 2: in the inbox, hasn't it? Some big news coming out 13 00:00:56,253 --> 00:00:57,733 Speaker 2: of New Zealand rugby. 14 00:00:57,533 --> 00:01:01,533 Speaker 3: Has indeed, Elliott's yeah, Super Rugby sort of what doesn't 15 00:01:01,573 --> 00:01:02,733 Speaker 3: quite fade into the background. 16 00:01:02,733 --> 00:01:03,853 Speaker 4: It's the business end of the year. 17 00:01:03,893 --> 00:01:07,933 Speaker 3: But Tony Brown coming home and plenty to unpack there 18 00:01:07,973 --> 00:01:10,973 Speaker 3: and twenty twenty eight as an All Blacks assistant coach 19 00:01:12,213 --> 00:01:14,733 Speaker 3: and who knows who the head coach is going to be. 20 00:01:15,053 --> 00:01:18,133 Speaker 2: That's right, well, let's dive into that big surprise when 21 00:01:18,293 --> 00:01:22,733 Speaker 2: that landed. Obviously, he's been a peripheral figure to the 22 00:01:22,813 --> 00:01:25,853 Speaker 2: last three coaching changes for the All Blacks. When you 23 00:01:25,893 --> 00:01:30,253 Speaker 2: think in twenty nineteen he was quartered potentially be part 24 00:01:30,293 --> 00:01:33,493 Speaker 2: of the Ian Fosters set up twenty three, his name 25 00:01:33,573 --> 00:01:37,333 Speaker 2: was mentioned again around Scott Roberson. He was aligned with 26 00:01:37,413 --> 00:01:40,373 Speaker 2: Jammie Joseph Dave Renny. Earlier in the year when that 27 00:01:40,453 --> 00:01:42,773 Speaker 2: change happened, there were conversations about whether we could get 28 00:01:42,773 --> 00:01:45,093 Speaker 2: out of that contract and he had to front pretty 29 00:01:45,093 --> 00:01:47,013 Speaker 2: publicly and say that he could and he was committed 30 00:01:47,053 --> 00:01:51,333 Speaker 2: to South Africa. So finally they've got their man, albeit 31 00:01:51,413 --> 00:01:52,533 Speaker 2: from twenty twenty. 32 00:01:52,253 --> 00:01:54,013 Speaker 4: Eight they have. 33 00:01:54,213 --> 00:01:58,093 Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, Tony Brown, I think for quite a long 34 00:01:58,133 --> 00:02:00,333 Speaker 3: time now has been regarded as one of the best 35 00:02:00,973 --> 00:02:05,453 Speaker 3: creative attacking mines in world rugby and it has been 36 00:02:05,493 --> 00:02:08,173 Speaker 3: a great shame that the All Blacks haven't managed to 37 00:02:08,173 --> 00:02:12,933 Speaker 3: get access to him. You mentioned the backstory about how 38 00:02:13,493 --> 00:02:15,533 Speaker 3: successive All Black coaches wanted him. 39 00:02:15,373 --> 00:02:17,413 Speaker 4: Involved but didn't get him involved. 40 00:02:17,493 --> 00:02:19,853 Speaker 3: And I think we've seen the impact he's had on 41 00:02:19,893 --> 00:02:23,973 Speaker 3: the spring Box in recent times in terms of evolving 42 00:02:24,053 --> 00:02:27,133 Speaker 3: their style of play, bringing in a lot of creativity, 43 00:02:27,213 --> 00:02:31,093 Speaker 3: a lot of innovation, particularly in the way that they 44 00:02:31,093 --> 00:02:34,053 Speaker 3: look to use the ball, and their style of athlete 45 00:02:34,093 --> 00:02:36,933 Speaker 3: has evolved significantly as well. 46 00:02:37,013 --> 00:02:39,253 Speaker 4: So look, I think it's a coup for the All Blacks. 47 00:02:39,293 --> 00:02:42,893 Speaker 3: But it is an interesting appointment in so many different realms, 48 00:02:42,933 --> 00:02:44,813 Speaker 3: isn't it. When you look cast the head to the 49 00:02:44,813 --> 00:02:48,453 Speaker 3: Greatest Rivalry Tour. I'm sure there'll be plenty of conspiracies 50 00:02:48,453 --> 00:02:51,013 Speaker 3: out there in South Africa that we'll hear in the 51 00:02:51,053 --> 00:02:53,733 Speaker 3: coming weeks and months, and then we'll go through to 52 00:02:53,813 --> 00:02:56,053 Speaker 3: the World Cup with the spring Box before joining the 53 00:02:56,053 --> 00:02:59,973 Speaker 3: All Blacks. Dave Rennie has been across disappointment, but it 54 00:03:00,013 --> 00:03:04,413 Speaker 3: is interesting that there's the potential for Tony Brown to 55 00:03:04,573 --> 00:03:06,973 Speaker 3: be involved with Rennie or another All. 56 00:03:06,893 --> 00:03:07,653 Speaker 4: Black's head coach. 57 00:03:07,773 --> 00:03:12,373 Speaker 3: So that probably just speaks to how keen New Zealaerogby 58 00:03:12,453 --> 00:03:14,813 Speaker 3: were to lock him up and get him involved, regardless 59 00:03:14,853 --> 00:03:16,293 Speaker 3: of what happens at the next World Cup. 60 00:03:16,373 --> 00:03:21,453 Speaker 2: Yeah, they've gone early twenty twenty eight, so the new 61 00:03:21,573 --> 00:03:23,893 Speaker 2: All Blacks coaching group hasn't even got together year. It's 62 00:03:23,933 --> 00:03:27,733 Speaker 2: two years away from Tony Brown being involved. But look 63 00:03:27,933 --> 00:03:31,773 Speaker 2: I like it. It's future planning from New Zealand Rugby 64 00:03:32,653 --> 00:03:36,493 Speaker 2: and look, he's a coach that is highly wanted, highly 65 00:03:36,533 --> 00:03:39,373 Speaker 2: desired right around the globe and if they didn't move 66 00:03:39,453 --> 00:03:43,133 Speaker 2: now then they potentially would be left out in the cold. 67 00:03:43,253 --> 00:03:44,813 Speaker 2: I'm sure he's going to have a number of suitors. 68 00:03:44,813 --> 00:03:47,173 Speaker 2: Although he'd said he was keen to move back to 69 00:03:47,213 --> 00:03:50,053 Speaker 2: New Zealand. You know that may you know, he can 70 00:03:50,093 --> 00:03:53,213 Speaker 2: always be swayed by an extra dollar sort an extra 71 00:03:53,293 --> 00:03:55,493 Speaker 2: zero on the end of the check or whatever it 72 00:03:55,533 --> 00:03:58,773 Speaker 2: might have been. So he comes. And now my understanding 73 00:03:58,853 --> 00:04:01,373 Speaker 2: of this there is that at this point in time 74 00:04:01,493 --> 00:04:03,613 Speaker 2: now obviously the coaching set up for twenty twenty eight 75 00:04:03,653 --> 00:04:07,293 Speaker 2: hasn't been formalized apart from Tony Brown, but he is 76 00:04:07,333 --> 00:04:11,013 Speaker 2: seen as a potential addition to a coaching group, not 77 00:04:11,213 --> 00:04:15,133 Speaker 2: a someone comes in so someone's got to leave scenario. 78 00:04:15,333 --> 00:04:18,453 Speaker 2: So he could be an extra voice in the coaching 79 00:04:18,493 --> 00:04:21,413 Speaker 2: group if it's retained beyond the twenty seven World Cup 80 00:04:21,533 --> 00:04:24,253 Speaker 2: or that. You know, people will move on potentially and 81 00:04:24,533 --> 00:04:27,973 Speaker 2: look for different past years beyond the Rugby World Cup, 82 00:04:28,013 --> 00:04:30,373 Speaker 2: but they're not tied to the fact that it's one end, 83 00:04:30,373 --> 00:04:30,773 Speaker 2: one out. 84 00:04:32,613 --> 00:04:36,173 Speaker 3: Yeah, it does put that's all very well in theory, 85 00:04:36,493 --> 00:04:38,893 Speaker 3: but it does put Mike Blair in particular in an 86 00:04:38,933 --> 00:04:41,453 Speaker 3: interesting position, doesn't it. Let you say, this all black 87 00:04:41,453 --> 00:04:44,973 Speaker 3: coaching team is yet to start and Mike Blair is 88 00:04:45,013 --> 00:04:47,813 Speaker 3: coming in as the attack coach, and there's no doubt 89 00:04:47,813 --> 00:04:50,093 Speaker 3: that Dave Renny will have a massive say and how 90 00:04:50,133 --> 00:04:53,373 Speaker 3: that shapes and plays out as well. But Mike Blair 91 00:04:54,093 --> 00:04:56,853 Speaker 3: two year runway to the World Cup, eighteen months or 92 00:04:57,013 --> 00:05:00,573 Speaker 3: whatever it is, and then Tony Brown is coming in 93 00:05:01,533 --> 00:05:05,173 Speaker 3: and a lot from an all black perspective, you'd hope 94 00:05:05,413 --> 00:05:08,973 Speaker 3: Tony Brown, given his credentials, given how desperate New Zeller 95 00:05:09,053 --> 00:05:12,573 Speaker 3: Rugby are, would be given full rains with the attack. 96 00:05:12,653 --> 00:05:15,653 Speaker 3: But what happens with Mike Blair and Dave Renny do 97 00:05:15,653 --> 00:05:19,173 Speaker 3: a fantastic job over the next eighteen months we saw 98 00:05:19,533 --> 00:05:24,373 Speaker 3: with Scott Robertson's team. I think the difficulties of shared 99 00:05:24,413 --> 00:05:27,333 Speaker 3: portfolios when you look at Scott Hansen and Jason o'haleran 100 00:05:27,293 --> 00:05:30,053 Speaker 3: and Leo McDonald and the way that dynamic did not 101 00:05:30,133 --> 00:05:30,893 Speaker 3: play out well. 102 00:05:31,453 --> 00:05:33,973 Speaker 4: So it is an interesting scenario. 103 00:05:34,093 --> 00:05:36,573 Speaker 3: But look, when a guy like Tony Brown wants to 104 00:05:36,573 --> 00:05:40,013 Speaker 3: come home and he's on the open market, I don't 105 00:05:40,053 --> 00:05:41,813 Speaker 3: think you can knock what new Zell and Rugby has 106 00:05:41,813 --> 00:05:42,333 Speaker 3: done at all. 107 00:05:42,413 --> 00:05:44,253 Speaker 4: I think it's a great appointment. 108 00:05:44,693 --> 00:05:47,573 Speaker 3: It's just an interesting circumstance and the way things are 109 00:05:47,573 --> 00:05:48,253 Speaker 3: going to play out. 110 00:05:48,213 --> 00:05:50,053 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fair point around that, because we've seen 111 00:05:50,053 --> 00:05:54,893 Speaker 2: the shared portfolios not work. Look, Mike Bleier, he's a Scotsman. 112 00:05:56,373 --> 00:05:58,253 Speaker 2: Hard to know where the Gregor Towns ends going to 113 00:05:58,293 --> 00:06:00,733 Speaker 2: stay beyond the twenty seven World Cup. Might depend on 114 00:06:00,773 --> 00:06:03,173 Speaker 2: the results, might not, but I am sure that he 115 00:06:03,213 --> 00:06:06,213 Speaker 2: would be in potential conversations to take over from twenty eight. 116 00:06:06,293 --> 00:06:08,813 Speaker 2: So maybe you know he's aligned for the knee eighteen 117 00:06:08,813 --> 00:06:10,613 Speaker 2: months and then as an open book after that. I 118 00:06:10,613 --> 00:06:13,693 Speaker 2: guess we'll wait and see. Hidden in that media lease 119 00:06:13,733 --> 00:06:17,653 Speaker 2: as well was a mention that they've given Dave Reny 120 00:06:17,733 --> 00:06:22,933 Speaker 2: the word that they will discuss the coaching set up 121 00:06:22,973 --> 00:06:26,493 Speaker 2: for beyond twenty twenty seven, not later the next year's 122 00:06:26,653 --> 00:06:29,213 Speaker 2: Rugby Championship. Doesn't mean they'll make a decision by then, 123 00:06:29,293 --> 00:06:31,773 Speaker 2: but they'll have a chat with him about what the 124 00:06:32,133 --> 00:06:35,013 Speaker 2: next steps are. So we're beginning to see a little 125 00:06:35,013 --> 00:06:37,333 Speaker 2: more detail around how this next couple of years is 126 00:06:37,373 --> 00:06:38,013 Speaker 2: going to play out. 127 00:06:39,493 --> 00:06:40,093 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. 128 00:06:40,133 --> 00:06:43,293 Speaker 3: I think that's prudent as well. And the one person 129 00:06:43,293 --> 00:06:47,253 Speaker 3: that we haven't mentioned at this point who's had an 130 00:06:47,293 --> 00:06:51,613 Speaker 3: immediate impact and influencers, Don Tricker. He's been behind the scenes. 131 00:06:51,613 --> 00:06:54,893 Speaker 3: He has only been appointed a matter of months. He's 132 00:06:54,933 --> 00:06:59,413 Speaker 3: still juggling his other duties with baseball and the States, 133 00:06:59,453 --> 00:07:03,493 Speaker 3: but he has been integral clearly and getting this Tony 134 00:07:03,533 --> 00:07:07,493 Speaker 3: Brown appointment across the line, and no doubt making sure 135 00:07:07,493 --> 00:07:10,253 Speaker 3: it's a smooth train experient process with Dave Rennie, which 136 00:07:10,293 --> 00:07:13,053 Speaker 3: would have included mapping out a timeline to discussing the 137 00:07:13,093 --> 00:07:16,093 Speaker 3: head coach role. Like you say, that doesn't guarantee anything. 138 00:07:16,133 --> 00:07:18,973 Speaker 3: It doesn't sign not necessarily that new Zone rugby is 139 00:07:18,973 --> 00:07:19,253 Speaker 3: going to. 140 00:07:19,213 --> 00:07:20,573 Speaker 4: Go early before the World Cup. 141 00:07:21,373 --> 00:07:23,413 Speaker 3: But they're going to open those conversations and it'll be 142 00:07:23,413 --> 00:07:27,053 Speaker 3: interesting to see where they go, particularly given the way 143 00:07:27,093 --> 00:07:30,133 Speaker 3: in which the last appointment played out with Scott Robinson 144 00:07:30,533 --> 00:07:33,093 Speaker 3: and m Foss. That was incredibly messy, wasn't it, And 145 00:07:33,213 --> 00:07:36,133 Speaker 3: I think everyone would acknowledge that they don't want to 146 00:07:36,133 --> 00:07:37,213 Speaker 3: repeat of that scenario. 147 00:07:37,493 --> 00:07:41,733 Speaker 2: Indeed, turning Brown back from twenty twenty eight, more on 148 00:07:42,453 --> 00:07:44,813 Speaker 2: those sort of things. In the final four, let's get 149 00:07:44,813 --> 00:07:48,733 Speaker 2: into the semi finals rather the qualifying finals of Super Rugby. 150 00:07:49,453 --> 00:07:51,853 Speaker 2: Let's go backwards and the Chiefs beating the Reds forty 151 00:07:51,893 --> 00:07:53,853 Speaker 2: six to twenty four this game and the balance for 152 00:07:54,733 --> 00:07:58,333 Speaker 2: a little bit, but the Chiefs ultimately kick away and unfortunately, 153 00:07:58,413 --> 00:08:01,733 Speaker 2: I suspect this game Liam might be more remembered for 154 00:08:02,013 --> 00:08:05,333 Speaker 2: Wallace a TT and what happened there than the fact 155 00:08:05,373 --> 00:08:07,133 Speaker 2: that the Chiefs were just a little bit too good 156 00:08:07,173 --> 00:08:09,933 Speaker 2: for the Reds. What did you take out of that performance? 157 00:08:11,093 --> 00:08:14,653 Speaker 3: Yeah, first of all, on Wallace, I yes, look, it's 158 00:08:14,693 --> 00:08:19,933 Speaker 3: great that there has been some positivity around what happened there, 159 00:08:19,933 --> 00:08:24,733 Speaker 3: the incident where he unfortunately received a double head knock, 160 00:08:24,813 --> 00:08:28,373 Speaker 3: wasn't it one from the Reds lock and then one 161 00:08:28,453 --> 00:08:32,773 Speaker 3: friendly fire and that caused those really distressing scenes seeing 162 00:08:32,853 --> 00:08:35,653 Speaker 3: him on the ground like that shaking. Look, Rugby is 163 00:08:35,653 --> 00:08:39,893 Speaker 3: a contact sport, but that was pretty stark images and 164 00:08:40,213 --> 00:08:43,493 Speaker 3: we all hope that Wallace makes it full recovery, so 165 00:08:44,173 --> 00:08:49,533 Speaker 3: very sort of scary scenario. And yeah, he certainly won't 166 00:08:49,533 --> 00:08:53,133 Speaker 3: be available this week, and it's conventioning to see how 167 00:08:53,133 --> 00:08:55,333 Speaker 3: things play up from it in the coming weeks, looking 168 00:08:55,373 --> 00:08:58,293 Speaker 3: ahead to a potential final and the All Blacks. But 169 00:08:58,853 --> 00:09:02,573 Speaker 3: like you said, the Chiefs, look, they got the job done. 170 00:09:02,893 --> 00:09:05,453 Speaker 3: The Reds were highly competitive. I don't think the scoreline 171 00:09:05,533 --> 00:09:08,453 Speaker 3: reflects the nature of that contest. The Chiefs had to 172 00:09:08,493 --> 00:09:11,373 Speaker 3: tighten things up in those conditions. They went to work 173 00:09:11,413 --> 00:09:14,813 Speaker 3: through their forward pack, Damian McKenzie a couple of very 174 00:09:14,813 --> 00:09:19,053 Speaker 3: influential touches and set up a Grand Final rematch with 175 00:09:19,173 --> 00:09:20,613 Speaker 3: the Crusaders they did. 176 00:09:20,613 --> 00:09:23,133 Speaker 2: Indeed, Yeah, I was impressed by the Chiefs in the 177 00:09:23,133 --> 00:09:25,573 Speaker 2: way they went about tightening things up. The reads obviously 178 00:09:25,573 --> 00:09:28,133 Speaker 2: gave him a scare, and they were right in at 179 00:09:28,133 --> 00:09:31,973 Speaker 2: the halftime and were beginning to threaten not being able 180 00:09:32,013 --> 00:09:34,813 Speaker 2: to sort of shake them off. But there was also 181 00:09:35,213 --> 00:09:38,253 Speaker 2: inevitability about the Chiefs sort of making a run, which 182 00:09:38,293 --> 00:09:41,133 Speaker 2: they did obviously in the second half, and McKenzie had 183 00:09:42,013 --> 00:09:44,773 Speaker 2: that run of points that he scored to really tack 184 00:09:44,853 --> 00:09:46,973 Speaker 2: the game away from the Reds. In the blink of 185 00:09:46,973 --> 00:09:49,413 Speaker 2: an eye, you know, the game was essentially gone. So 186 00:09:50,173 --> 00:09:52,573 Speaker 2: I think it gives the Chiefs some hope as they 187 00:09:52,573 --> 00:09:55,693 Speaker 2: head into the next two weeks of the season. Obviously 188 00:09:55,693 --> 00:09:58,973 Speaker 2: they hope it'll end in a title in a couple 189 00:09:59,053 --> 00:10:02,373 Speaker 2: of weeks, but their ability just to kick away is 190 00:10:02,573 --> 00:10:06,373 Speaker 2: probably as good as the Hurricanes. I honestly, there is 191 00:10:06,413 --> 00:10:08,413 Speaker 2: a good a team, but they have an ability just 192 00:10:08,493 --> 00:10:11,213 Speaker 2: to take the game away from you before you realize 193 00:10:11,933 --> 00:10:14,453 Speaker 2: in many ways. And the Reds are on the receiving 194 00:10:14,533 --> 00:10:14,973 Speaker 2: end of that. 195 00:10:16,253 --> 00:10:19,413 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think different contrasting styles to the Hurricanes. Hurricanes 196 00:10:19,453 --> 00:10:25,093 Speaker 3: are very probably used the width and attack and offloads more. 197 00:10:25,213 --> 00:10:29,613 Speaker 3: Where when things get distressing or the games and the balance, 198 00:10:29,653 --> 00:10:32,373 Speaker 3: the Chiefs probably tighten things up and really go back 199 00:10:32,373 --> 00:10:35,813 Speaker 3: to their forward pack that use them more. Really well, 200 00:10:35,933 --> 00:10:40,533 Speaker 3: semasons Takeyaho scores for fun. Off the back of that, 201 00:10:40,453 --> 00:10:43,173 Speaker 3: they can play direct. They're very physical in the carry 202 00:10:43,173 --> 00:10:47,133 Speaker 3: and clean so and then they'll try and bring the 203 00:10:47,213 --> 00:10:49,573 Speaker 3: Ckenzie in and give him a bit of time and 204 00:10:49,613 --> 00:10:53,293 Speaker 3: space as well through that sort of approach. So the 205 00:10:53,373 --> 00:10:56,413 Speaker 3: Chiefs have stood up when it's mattered most this year, 206 00:10:56,453 --> 00:10:59,813 Speaker 3: and that's a good sign given how many finals they've lost, 207 00:10:59,853 --> 00:11:02,813 Speaker 3: and maybe they've learned a lesson or two there. 208 00:11:03,173 --> 00:11:07,573 Speaker 2: Indeed, the Reds on the other hand, look that they 209 00:11:07,653 --> 00:11:10,733 Speaker 2: hang in the content. They were obviously always outsiders for 210 00:11:10,813 --> 00:11:14,613 Speaker 2: that game, but ultimately didn't have eighty minutes heading across 211 00:11:14,613 --> 00:11:17,213 Speaker 2: the tears and probably played out, you know, relatively as 212 00:11:17,253 --> 00:11:18,653 Speaker 2: people thought it ed might. 213 00:11:20,253 --> 00:11:25,413 Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty symptomatic of the Crane's teasman contests. I think 214 00:11:25,453 --> 00:11:29,493 Speaker 3: in general that we've seen this year, the Reds look, 215 00:11:29,573 --> 00:11:32,333 Speaker 3: they were competitive, They had some good performances Tate McDermott, 216 00:11:32,533 --> 00:11:36,613 Speaker 3: Carter Gordon, Harry Wilson. You know, some real talent in 217 00:11:36,653 --> 00:11:39,733 Speaker 3: that team, but they just couldn't stick with the Chiefs 218 00:11:39,813 --> 00:11:43,733 Speaker 3: long enough. And that's a tail of the tape for 219 00:11:43,773 --> 00:11:47,373 Speaker 3: these For Ossie's teams, they seem to be able to 220 00:11:47,893 --> 00:11:51,693 Speaker 3: hang tough for forty sixty minutes, but no match for 221 00:11:52,253 --> 00:11:57,053 Speaker 3: the elite upper echelons of the Kiwi opposition for the 222 00:11:57,093 --> 00:11:57,773 Speaker 3: full contest. 223 00:11:57,893 --> 00:12:00,533 Speaker 2: Indeed, well, let's get to the closest game of the weekend. 224 00:12:00,813 --> 00:12:03,853 Speaker 2: Twenty one points the Crusader's fifty two over the Blues 225 00:12:04,653 --> 00:12:09,133 Speaker 2: thirty one Crusader's just two. I mean, obviously they had 226 00:12:09,293 --> 00:12:13,213 Speaker 2: the benefit of playing against an extra man or had 227 00:12:13,213 --> 00:12:16,733 Speaker 2: an extra man rather for twenty minutes in that game, 228 00:12:16,773 --> 00:12:19,693 Speaker 2: in a crucial twenty minutes where they really blew them 229 00:12:19,813 --> 00:12:23,613 Speaker 2: apart with three tries before halftime. At that point it was, 230 00:12:23,613 --> 00:12:26,853 Speaker 2: you know, tip for tat fourteen all but the Crusaders, 231 00:12:26,853 --> 00:12:30,173 Speaker 2: as soon as they got a sniff just ran rampants 232 00:12:30,293 --> 00:12:34,733 Speaker 2: over the Blues and while you know, you look at 233 00:12:34,733 --> 00:12:37,293 Speaker 2: that school line and go, well, they conceded thirty one. 234 00:12:37,693 --> 00:12:41,813 Speaker 2: I think that was a warning sounded by the Crusaders. 235 00:12:41,813 --> 00:12:44,013 Speaker 2: I don't think they're as good as the Hurricanes or 236 00:12:44,133 --> 00:12:46,893 Speaker 2: necessarily the Chiefs, even though they beating them a couple 237 00:12:46,893 --> 00:12:49,693 Speaker 2: of times. But I think you united in your piece 238 00:12:49,693 --> 00:12:52,053 Speaker 2: of the Herald writing it up and the post match 239 00:12:52,133 --> 00:12:56,373 Speaker 2: reportly and this all feels rather familiar, doesn't it. 240 00:12:56,373 --> 00:12:56,853 Speaker 4: It does. 241 00:12:57,053 --> 00:13:01,933 Speaker 3: Momentum and confidence and look the Crusaders there was a 242 00:13:01,973 --> 00:13:05,693 Speaker 3: point following their dire tour to Australia. They came back 243 00:13:05,693 --> 00:13:08,853 Speaker 3: home and I think at one point in my even 244 00:13:08,893 --> 00:13:10,933 Speaker 3: completely wrote them off for the title. Elliott I still 245 00:13:10,933 --> 00:13:16,413 Speaker 3: thought they'd make the playoffs, but look they've really come 246 00:13:16,453 --> 00:13:18,893 Speaker 3: home and found some form. 247 00:13:19,213 --> 00:13:22,693 Speaker 4: This match in particular, I felt the Blues. 248 00:13:22,413 --> 00:13:26,053 Speaker 3: Started well and it was that red cards undisputable red 249 00:13:26,093 --> 00:13:30,213 Speaker 3: card from Malochai Rampling that did turn the contest. But look, 250 00:13:30,213 --> 00:13:32,373 Speaker 3: the Crusaders have to be good enough to pounce on 251 00:13:32,413 --> 00:13:34,453 Speaker 3: that advantage, and they were. They think they scored four 252 00:13:34,533 --> 00:13:38,613 Speaker 3: tries to one during that twenty minute period put the 253 00:13:38,653 --> 00:13:43,253 Speaker 3: game to bed. Essentially by halftime, the Blues line out 254 00:13:43,293 --> 00:13:46,813 Speaker 3: started to unravel, They falled off, fell off tackles, but 255 00:13:46,813 --> 00:13:50,053 Speaker 3: the Crusaders were good enough. David Heavilli another big performance 256 00:13:50,413 --> 00:13:54,933 Speaker 3: Christian Leo. We're in probably career best form. I think 257 00:13:55,893 --> 00:13:58,493 Speaker 3: Sevy Reese was highly involved from the edge. Johnny McNichol 258 00:13:58,533 --> 00:14:02,773 Speaker 3: gets a hat trick and the Crusaders, I don't think 259 00:14:02,853 --> 00:14:05,853 Speaker 3: they'll have a lot of fear going to Hamilton. They 260 00:14:07,253 --> 00:14:11,373 Speaker 3: have a good record and that rival with the Chiefs 261 00:14:11,413 --> 00:14:14,613 Speaker 3: interesting to see if they can get maybe Fletcher Newle back, 262 00:14:14,653 --> 00:14:16,493 Speaker 3: which would be a big in for them. 263 00:14:16,853 --> 00:14:19,053 Speaker 4: But they have really hit their straps at the back 264 00:14:19,133 --> 00:14:20,053 Speaker 4: end of this year, haven't they. 265 00:14:20,253 --> 00:14:23,613 Speaker 2: They have, and obviously playing at home helps, but as 266 00:14:23,653 --> 00:14:25,693 Speaker 2: you mentioned, I don't think they've got with too much fear. 267 00:14:25,773 --> 00:14:28,693 Speaker 2: They beat a week in Chiefs seehim a couple of 268 00:14:28,733 --> 00:14:32,333 Speaker 2: weeks ago. They beat a relatively strong Chiefs team earlier 269 00:14:32,413 --> 00:14:35,733 Speaker 2: in the season, but they just seem to be finding 270 00:14:35,773 --> 00:14:39,573 Speaker 2: their way. Lester foing Onnoku had another really strong game 271 00:14:39,693 --> 00:14:43,573 Speaker 2: at open side. Flanka continue to be impressed by what 272 00:14:43,693 --> 00:14:46,453 Speaker 2: he's doing there, even that high shot by Melica Rampling. 273 00:14:46,533 --> 00:14:48,733 Speaker 2: Now maybe he should have gone off for an Hia check, 274 00:14:48,813 --> 00:14:52,333 Speaker 2: but the mouthguards didn't trigger and we keep on going. 275 00:14:52,373 --> 00:14:55,373 Speaker 2: But he was everywhere. And another player on a highlight 276 00:14:55,453 --> 00:14:58,173 Speaker 2: is David Harvilly as well. Now he hasn't had the 277 00:14:58,173 --> 00:15:00,173 Speaker 2: greatest of seasons, and we've touched on this a couple 278 00:15:00,213 --> 00:15:03,293 Speaker 2: of times, but the last couple of weeks he has 279 00:15:03,413 --> 00:15:07,253 Speaker 2: stood up big time for this Crusader's team. 280 00:15:08,613 --> 00:15:11,653 Speaker 3: And yeah, I think we commented a number of times 281 00:15:11,693 --> 00:15:14,093 Speaker 3: earlier in the year that he looked a bit lost. 282 00:15:14,773 --> 00:15:17,373 Speaker 3: There was one really strange moment I think it was 283 00:15:17,533 --> 00:15:21,653 Speaker 3: against the Hurricanes, really kick the ball out or away 284 00:15:21,693 --> 00:15:23,373 Speaker 3: near the near the end of the game, which was 285 00:15:23,453 --> 00:15:28,093 Speaker 3: quite baffling. But in the last few weeks, man, he's 286 00:15:28,133 --> 00:15:31,053 Speaker 3: doing it all. He's providing for others, he's got time 287 00:15:31,093 --> 00:15:35,693 Speaker 3: on the ball, he's making great decisions, he's really leading 288 00:15:35,733 --> 00:15:39,973 Speaker 3: that team. Well. So big players step up, don't they 289 00:15:40,333 --> 00:15:41,853 Speaker 3: at the back end of the year, and this is 290 00:15:41,853 --> 00:15:46,333 Speaker 3: when form counts. So he hasn't really factored international conversations. 291 00:15:47,373 --> 00:15:50,253 Speaker 3: Certainly last year fell out of favor under Scott Robinson. 292 00:15:50,293 --> 00:15:52,973 Speaker 3: And there's a number of midfielders going around. But he 293 00:15:53,013 --> 00:15:56,893 Speaker 3: does have a skill set. I think that that's not 294 00:15:56,973 --> 00:16:00,973 Speaker 3: all midfielders have. I don't think he's necessarily going to 295 00:16:01,013 --> 00:16:02,613 Speaker 3: crack the first All Black team of the year. But 296 00:16:02,653 --> 00:16:04,973 Speaker 3: when you're looking at a wider squad and a guy 297 00:16:04,973 --> 00:16:11,013 Speaker 3: with a bit of experience and leadership potential. I think 298 00:16:11,213 --> 00:16:13,413 Speaker 3: he's certainly putting himself well back in that frame. 299 00:16:13,493 --> 00:16:16,133 Speaker 2: Isn't here well to me, he strikes me as for 300 00:16:16,173 --> 00:16:20,453 Speaker 2: that South African until the ultimate midweek captain. Look, he 301 00:16:20,453 --> 00:16:22,893 Speaker 2: could he could obviously do a job view at test 302 00:16:23,013 --> 00:16:26,093 Speaker 2: level and slotting really well there. But in terms of 303 00:16:26,133 --> 00:16:28,853 Speaker 2: his leadership, which we see from him with the Crusaders 304 00:16:29,213 --> 00:16:32,693 Speaker 2: week in week out, but also a player that maybe 305 00:16:32,693 --> 00:16:34,653 Speaker 2: won't be in that first choice top twenty three but 306 00:16:35,533 --> 00:16:38,333 Speaker 2: could be if needed. You know, I think he might 307 00:16:38,373 --> 00:16:41,413 Speaker 2: slot in maybe as a potential midweek captain maybe for 308 00:16:41,453 --> 00:16:44,973 Speaker 2: that tour. If they do announce a standalone midweek skipper, 309 00:16:45,493 --> 00:16:47,453 Speaker 2: he would be sort of my pack for that because 310 00:16:47,493 --> 00:16:50,173 Speaker 2: I think he's the kind of player that could lead 311 00:16:50,173 --> 00:16:53,293 Speaker 2: that midweek group and get a you know, get them 312 00:16:53,293 --> 00:16:56,293 Speaker 2: towards a job and keep them sort of on their 313 00:16:56,333 --> 00:16:59,333 Speaker 2: toes and pushing for spots in the top team. So 314 00:16:59,733 --> 00:17:01,533 Speaker 2: just a bit of foother thought, but he is playing 315 00:17:01,573 --> 00:17:05,093 Speaker 2: some good rugby over these last few weeks and the 316 00:17:05,173 --> 00:17:09,173 Speaker 2: Hurricane sixty six twelve over the Brumbies. Look, I don't 317 00:17:09,173 --> 00:17:11,373 Speaker 2: think any of us now in your world is streams. 318 00:17:11,373 --> 00:17:13,613 Speaker 2: Potentially Liam would have thought that would have gone like this, 319 00:17:13,773 --> 00:17:18,013 Speaker 2: But on a wet night in Wellington, the Hurricanes made 320 00:17:18,013 --> 00:17:22,813 Speaker 2: it look easy in that contest, and the Brumbies what 321 00:17:22,933 --> 00:17:25,133 Speaker 2: a woe will finish to their season. You know, at 322 00:17:25,173 --> 00:17:27,333 Speaker 2: one point they were odds on to be in the 323 00:17:27,373 --> 00:17:29,773 Speaker 2: top two. Now they sink out in the first week 324 00:17:29,893 --> 00:17:30,893 Speaker 2: really without a trace. 325 00:17:32,133 --> 00:17:34,613 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Look, there's two ways you can look at this. 326 00:17:34,773 --> 00:17:37,533 Speaker 3: You can stick the boot into the Brumbies and say 327 00:17:37,573 --> 00:17:41,013 Speaker 3: how woeful they were, particularly some of those defensive efforts, 328 00:17:41,053 --> 00:17:46,573 Speaker 3: Warnerdern's try one of his tries and kem. 329 00:17:46,453 --> 00:17:47,653 Speaker 4: Rougate as well, just. 330 00:17:49,253 --> 00:17:53,613 Speaker 3: Going straight through Rob Valentini at one point, you know, 331 00:17:53,773 --> 00:17:58,813 Speaker 3: expect much better from a standout Wallabies loose forward in 332 00:17:59,213 --> 00:18:01,293 Speaker 3: a day. But also don't think you can overlook some 333 00:18:01,373 --> 00:18:06,293 Speaker 3: of the decision making, the execution, the pace, the movement 334 00:18:06,333 --> 00:18:09,213 Speaker 3: that the Hurricanes are playing with. Obviously they were given 335 00:18:09,293 --> 00:18:12,053 Speaker 3: far too much time, space and freedom, but you've still 336 00:18:12,093 --> 00:18:13,693 Speaker 3: got to take those moments. You're still going to make 337 00:18:13,693 --> 00:18:15,973 Speaker 3: the right decisions the end to play between the backs 338 00:18:15,973 --> 00:18:16,613 Speaker 3: and the forwards. 339 00:18:18,293 --> 00:18:20,533 Speaker 4: Look, this was as good as the Hurricanes have looked 340 00:18:20,533 --> 00:18:21,093 Speaker 4: all year. 341 00:18:21,093 --> 00:18:25,733 Speaker 3: In very very challenging conditions, and then you've got a 342 00:18:25,733 --> 00:18:28,813 Speaker 3: guy like Ruben and Love kicking every conversion in those 343 00:18:29,133 --> 00:18:32,173 Speaker 3: conditions as well. So him and kem roygad starting to 344 00:18:32,213 --> 00:18:36,973 Speaker 3: combine really nicely as well. So not much much tougher 345 00:18:37,013 --> 00:18:41,453 Speaker 3: tests to come for the Hurricanes. But when Valentonian's looked 346 00:18:41,453 --> 00:18:45,813 Speaker 3: out the window on Friday night and saw the driving rain, 347 00:18:45,973 --> 00:18:47,973 Speaker 3: saw the Brumbies coming in, I think there would have 348 00:18:47,973 --> 00:18:50,373 Speaker 3: been a few nerves, but there was clearly no need 349 00:18:50,693 --> 00:18:51,093 Speaker 3: for those. 350 00:18:51,413 --> 00:18:54,093 Speaker 2: No, there wasn't sixty six points on a wetnightlight. That 351 00:18:54,293 --> 00:18:58,253 Speaker 2: was exceptional. And the Hurricanes look good for every part 352 00:18:58,253 --> 00:19:00,013 Speaker 2: of it. And it's going to take a special effort, 353 00:19:00,093 --> 00:19:03,573 Speaker 2: I think to stop them winning the title this year. 354 00:19:03,693 --> 00:19:07,693 Speaker 2: That they're playing some outstanding rugby and even with you know, 355 00:19:07,773 --> 00:19:12,093 Speaker 2: Finnannger for not playing on the weekend, you know that 356 00:19:12,173 --> 00:19:15,133 Speaker 2: they still can just slot players and you know Moreby's 357 00:19:15,173 --> 00:19:16,853 Speaker 2: doing a job for them, Hark and all those sort 358 00:19:16,893 --> 00:19:18,933 Speaker 2: of players in the back line. They've got that depth 359 00:19:19,853 --> 00:19:21,933 Speaker 2: which is working out really really well for them. And 360 00:19:22,653 --> 00:19:26,053 Speaker 2: Darrow say it, Jason Hollins as an attack coach or 361 00:19:26,093 --> 00:19:28,133 Speaker 2: with his hands on the attack is doing some pretty 362 00:19:28,133 --> 00:19:31,093 Speaker 2: special things after not being able to do much for 363 00:19:31,093 --> 00:19:33,173 Speaker 2: the last couple of years with the All Blacks. 364 00:19:33,853 --> 00:19:38,773 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and Clark laid law only enhancing his credentials. 365 00:19:39,333 --> 00:19:41,973 Speaker 3: You know, had a clear plan around this team, building 366 00:19:42,013 --> 00:19:44,213 Speaker 3: them up for the past three four years, keeping the 367 00:19:44,293 --> 00:19:47,613 Speaker 3: nucleus of that squad. And yeah, I don't want to 368 00:19:47,693 --> 00:19:50,933 Speaker 3: jinx anything, but look, if they're ever going to win, 369 00:19:50,973 --> 00:19:53,093 Speaker 3: it is this year. Because they are losing a number 370 00:19:53,093 --> 00:19:57,333 Speaker 3: of players plus Jason Hollins. They had a vision for 371 00:19:57,373 --> 00:20:00,053 Speaker 3: this team coming together and they're starting to really come 372 00:20:00,093 --> 00:20:04,253 Speaker 3: to fruish and now. So look, the only other question 373 00:20:04,293 --> 00:20:07,413 Speaker 3: you need to ask here is about the Super Rugby Playoffs, Eliot, 374 00:20:07,413 --> 00:20:10,533 Speaker 3: the Blues make the semifinals after four straight losses. The 375 00:20:10,533 --> 00:20:16,413 Speaker 3: Brumbies were an embarrassment. None of those quarterfinals were even 376 00:20:16,453 --> 00:20:20,333 Speaker 3: close in the finish. So it's not a great endorsement 377 00:20:20,773 --> 00:20:23,653 Speaker 3: of the competition or the playoff format, is it. 378 00:20:23,773 --> 00:20:26,533 Speaker 2: No, it's not. And I think you, yeah, well, we 379 00:20:26,613 --> 00:20:28,093 Speaker 2: talked about this a little bit last week, but I 380 00:20:28,133 --> 00:20:31,853 Speaker 2: think automatically, if you have three v six, four v five, 381 00:20:31,973 --> 00:20:34,133 Speaker 2: you get better contest. And that would have meant the 382 00:20:34,173 --> 00:20:36,733 Speaker 2: Crusaders host the Brumbies. Now the Brumbies have put fifty 383 00:20:36,773 --> 00:20:39,293 Speaker 2: on a very different Crusaders side, a very different Brumby 384 00:20:39,333 --> 00:20:40,693 Speaker 2: side at the start of the year, but they put 385 00:20:40,693 --> 00:20:43,973 Speaker 2: fifty on them in christ Church at the start of 386 00:20:44,013 --> 00:20:48,493 Speaker 2: the season. That's automatically. I think a better game for 387 00:20:48,573 --> 00:20:52,693 Speaker 2: a fan perspective four v five is the Blues hosting 388 00:20:52,893 --> 00:20:55,973 Speaker 2: the Reds. On the evidence of what we saw on 389 00:20:56,013 --> 00:20:58,213 Speaker 2: the weekend, I think that's a very very close game 390 00:20:58,253 --> 00:21:00,933 Speaker 2: and the Reds maybe even tip up the Blues at 391 00:21:01,053 --> 00:21:03,813 Speaker 2: Eden Park and that changes the complexion of the next week. 392 00:21:04,533 --> 00:21:06,373 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I could see the red Speed and the 393 00:21:06,373 --> 00:21:07,813 Speaker 4: Blues in their current form. 394 00:21:08,093 --> 00:21:11,133 Speaker 2: So then you'd have the Hurricanes playing the Reds. You'd 395 00:21:11,133 --> 00:21:15,093 Speaker 2: still have Chiefs Crusaders the following week, but I think 396 00:21:15,213 --> 00:21:17,973 Speaker 2: in that week one you get two better elimination games 397 00:21:18,013 --> 00:21:22,013 Speaker 2: out of it, rather than the Blues, who were pretty 398 00:21:22,013 --> 00:21:23,893 Speaker 2: confident they'd get a second shot at it had to 399 00:21:23,933 --> 00:21:26,453 Speaker 2: wait to nine oh five on the Saturday night, but 400 00:21:27,013 --> 00:21:30,333 Speaker 2: it wasn't necessarily and they couldn't go in with this attitude. 401 00:21:30,373 --> 00:21:32,333 Speaker 2: As we talked about last week. They couldn't go in 402 00:21:32,493 --> 00:21:35,613 Speaker 2: thinking it was not knockout, but they didn't know at 403 00:21:35,613 --> 00:21:37,213 Speaker 2: the back of their minds that they were likely to 404 00:21:37,213 --> 00:21:38,333 Speaker 2: get a second opportunity. 405 00:21:39,533 --> 00:21:40,333 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. 406 00:21:40,413 --> 00:21:42,213 Speaker 3: I think it does shine a light on the integrity 407 00:21:42,213 --> 00:21:46,053 Speaker 3: of the competition and the playoff format. I completely understand 408 00:21:46,093 --> 00:21:50,293 Speaker 3: that broadcasters revenue pays the bills, but there needs to 409 00:21:50,333 --> 00:21:53,893 Speaker 3: be a balance between putting the fan first and retaining 410 00:21:53,893 --> 00:21:57,733 Speaker 3: the integrity of the competition. So as they look to 411 00:21:57,733 --> 00:22:00,213 Speaker 3: square away what happens with winner next year and look 412 00:22:00,253 --> 00:22:03,413 Speaker 3: at the competition format and the playoff format, I think 413 00:22:03,613 --> 00:22:08,213 Speaker 3: it needs a real spotlight on the playoffs because it 414 00:22:08,413 --> 00:22:09,573 Speaker 3: can and should be a lot better. 415 00:22:09,853 --> 00:22:11,933 Speaker 2: Speaking of fans, first, we're gonna put our fans first 416 00:22:11,973 --> 00:22:13,693 Speaker 2: and give you a little bit of a break. We're 417 00:22:13,733 --> 00:22:15,973 Speaker 2: back right after this on Ragby Direct. You're back with 418 00:22:16,173 --> 00:22:18,533 Speaker 2: Rugby Direct. Time now for the Final four and MVP 419 00:22:18,693 --> 00:22:22,013 Speaker 2: voting after that. But first up Final four. Dave Rennie 420 00:22:22,413 --> 00:22:27,053 Speaker 2: leaves Kobe as a winner, beat Cabota in the final 421 00:22:27,093 --> 00:22:31,453 Speaker 2: twenty two thirteen. I watched most of this Liam last night. 422 00:22:31,813 --> 00:22:35,853 Speaker 2: It was a gritty final in many ways. It was 423 00:22:35,933 --> 00:22:40,533 Speaker 2: basically decided by the kicking of the boots three penalties 424 00:22:40,573 --> 00:22:44,333 Speaker 2: if memory serves in The second spell to Kobe was thirteen. 425 00:22:44,373 --> 00:22:47,213 Speaker 2: All the halftime they just kicked on the threatened to 426 00:22:47,493 --> 00:22:49,493 Speaker 2: score a few more tries but couldn't quite do so. 427 00:22:49,573 --> 00:22:54,293 Speaker 2: It was a really gritty, tense final but impressed Brodie 428 00:22:54,333 --> 00:22:57,333 Speaker 2: Ritalik Man of the match deservedly. Sooth Or Anton Lenet 429 00:22:57,373 --> 00:23:01,893 Speaker 2: Brown contributed for Kobe. Ardie Savilla was impressive. Couple of 430 00:23:01,893 --> 00:23:05,053 Speaker 2: big turnovers that he got, all big moments that he 431 00:23:05,133 --> 00:23:08,093 Speaker 2: had in that game. So look, you know he's gonna 432 00:23:08,133 --> 00:23:10,693 Speaker 2: leavebe as a winner and let's hope from a New 433 00:23:10,773 --> 00:23:13,293 Speaker 2: Zealand aspective he arrives and picks up as a winner 434 00:23:13,333 --> 00:23:13,693 Speaker 2: as well. 435 00:23:14,813 --> 00:23:16,973 Speaker 3: That's right, and it's a real nod I think to 436 00:23:17,173 --> 00:23:20,773 Speaker 3: Dave Rennie's ability to bring a team together and progress them. 437 00:23:20,773 --> 00:23:24,013 Speaker 3: When he started with Kobe there were ninth. The following year, fifth, 438 00:23:24,133 --> 00:23:28,733 Speaker 3: then third and now they're champions. So progressively improved and 439 00:23:28,813 --> 00:23:32,133 Speaker 3: I think that's what we've seen largely throughout Dave in 440 00:23:32,213 --> 00:23:34,653 Speaker 3: his tenure, probably barring the Wallabies where he was turfed 441 00:23:35,653 --> 00:23:39,093 Speaker 3: well before his time. And I think it probably is 442 00:23:39,133 --> 00:23:42,693 Speaker 3: an endorsement for New Zealand Rugby's decision to appoint him 443 00:23:43,133 --> 00:23:46,253 Speaker 3: over Jamie Joseph. And also, yeah, like you say, good 444 00:23:46,253 --> 00:23:49,373 Speaker 3: to see those all blacks and form more all blacks 445 00:23:49,373 --> 00:23:52,093 Speaker 3: standing up big time and what was a tight, tense, 446 00:23:52,133 --> 00:23:52,813 Speaker 3: nervy final. 447 00:23:53,013 --> 00:23:56,413 Speaker 2: Indeed fascinating to see who pops up over there as well. 448 00:23:56,413 --> 00:24:00,813 Speaker 2: Ash Dickson playing for Kobay now called himself for the 449 00:24:00,853 --> 00:24:05,373 Speaker 2: top fourteen winner. Michael Little was there I think as well. Look, 450 00:24:05,453 --> 00:24:07,333 Speaker 2: it was just quite funny just seeing a few of 451 00:24:07,373 --> 00:24:09,453 Speaker 2: those players that haven't we really thought about it in 452 00:24:09,453 --> 00:24:12,733 Speaker 2: a while popping up in the Japan system. Totik number 453 00:24:12,733 --> 00:24:16,013 Speaker 2: two to Marsi. Farmer leaves as sevens coach in New Zealand, 454 00:24:16,093 --> 00:24:18,413 Speaker 2: losing both the men's and women's finals in Bordeaux and 455 00:24:18,453 --> 00:24:22,133 Speaker 2: a very confusing championship format that I don't think anyone 456 00:24:22,213 --> 00:24:26,973 Speaker 2: really understands. But Tomasie Tharmer leaves, it felt liam like 457 00:24:27,053 --> 00:24:31,213 Speaker 2: he never quite clicked as head coach. He's been around 458 00:24:31,253 --> 00:24:34,333 Speaker 2: obviously as a wonderful player, then as an assistant and 459 00:24:34,413 --> 00:24:37,933 Speaker 2: head coach once Clark Ladler left the program two or 460 00:24:37,973 --> 00:24:40,933 Speaker 2: three years ago Pride to the Paris Olympics, but it 461 00:24:40,973 --> 00:24:43,293 Speaker 2: never quite clicked for Tamasi Tharmer. 462 00:24:44,733 --> 00:24:46,053 Speaker 4: No, and that's unfortunate. 463 00:24:46,173 --> 00:24:48,253 Speaker 3: This is a guy that's been involved in that set 464 00:24:48,293 --> 00:24:51,533 Speaker 3: up for the best part of twenty years now. But look, 465 00:24:51,653 --> 00:24:57,413 Speaker 3: not all former players make good coaches, and Tamasi Karma 466 00:24:57,453 --> 00:25:00,173 Speaker 3: hasn't had or he's had some challenges. He's said a 467 00:25:00,253 --> 00:25:05,133 Speaker 3: number of those veterans move on and recent times and 468 00:25:05,173 --> 00:25:07,653 Speaker 3: had to try and regenerate that squad. A lot of 469 00:25:07,653 --> 00:25:11,213 Speaker 3: those players also progressed to Super rugby, so he's had 470 00:25:11,213 --> 00:25:14,453 Speaker 3: to bring through young talent. But I think the men's 471 00:25:14,453 --> 00:25:19,453 Speaker 3: sevens certainly needs a refresh. I've had some big losses 472 00:25:19,493 --> 00:25:23,453 Speaker 3: in recent times and while yeah, they finished second in Bordeaux, 473 00:25:24,733 --> 00:25:27,973 Speaker 3: the results have not been what's what do you'd expect 474 00:25:27,973 --> 00:25:30,613 Speaker 3: from from an elite team, So I think a change 475 00:25:30,613 --> 00:25:31,733 Speaker 3: of coach was required. 476 00:25:32,173 --> 00:25:34,773 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the sevens program for the men's anyways 477 00:25:34,773 --> 00:25:37,133 Speaker 2: stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's quite 478 00:25:37,173 --> 00:25:39,813 Speaker 2: clear that the top players in this country do not 479 00:25:39,933 --> 00:25:43,853 Speaker 2: want to play sevens. I don't see any other reason 480 00:25:43,973 --> 00:25:46,853 Speaker 2: for it. And they want to play seven they want 481 00:25:46,853 --> 00:25:51,573 Speaker 2: to play super rugby. We've seen play obviously, Moses Leo 482 00:25:51,653 --> 00:25:55,053 Speaker 2: has gone on to the NRL William Warbrick as well, 483 00:25:55,053 --> 00:25:57,253 Speaker 2: but it's very much seen now as a stepping stone 484 00:25:57,293 --> 00:26:01,333 Speaker 2: barring a few players, and it's hard to see a 485 00:26:01,373 --> 00:26:04,853 Speaker 2: way out of that. Necessarily from New Zealand. There has 486 00:26:04,893 --> 00:26:07,053 Speaker 2: always been an element of that, you know, that went 487 00:26:07,093 --> 00:26:10,013 Speaker 2: back to Sir Gordon Kitchens plucking these players out and 488 00:26:10,013 --> 00:26:11,973 Speaker 2: then they get poached by super rugby clubs. So it 489 00:26:11,973 --> 00:26:15,053 Speaker 2: feels more so than ever that the top men just 490 00:26:15,053 --> 00:26:18,533 Speaker 2: do not want to play seven. That's not an attractive 491 00:26:18,533 --> 00:26:20,133 Speaker 2: prospect to them. There is still a little bit of 492 00:26:20,133 --> 00:26:23,573 Speaker 2: a pathway. Leroy Card is another example of that, but 493 00:26:23,653 --> 00:26:26,733 Speaker 2: it's not seen as a priority for a lot of players. 494 00:26:27,053 --> 00:26:30,253 Speaker 2: Until that changes, it's hard to see exactly how the 495 00:26:30,293 --> 00:26:32,973 Speaker 2: program goes forward in New Zealand. The women, on the 496 00:26:32,973 --> 00:26:34,933 Speaker 2: other hand, will be out losing a couple of finals 497 00:26:34,973 --> 00:26:36,773 Speaker 2: to Australia in the last couple of weeks is going 498 00:26:36,813 --> 00:26:38,933 Speaker 2: great guns. But yeah, the men, I've got a big 499 00:26:39,013 --> 00:26:42,253 Speaker 2: question mark over its future as a program and where 500 00:26:42,293 --> 00:26:42,733 Speaker 2: it goes to. 501 00:26:44,613 --> 00:26:44,813 Speaker 4: Yeah. 502 00:26:44,853 --> 00:26:46,933 Speaker 3: Absolutely, it needs a bit of a rething and it's 503 00:26:46,973 --> 00:26:48,973 Speaker 3: a good point you make about it being seen as 504 00:26:48,973 --> 00:26:51,973 Speaker 3: a stepping stone peyton spencer and a number of these 505 00:26:52,013 --> 00:26:54,533 Speaker 3: young guys, there's a number of examples of them that 506 00:26:54,973 --> 00:26:58,253 Speaker 3: are using it as a launch pad rather than a 507 00:26:58,333 --> 00:26:59,533 Speaker 3: real career pathway. 508 00:27:00,013 --> 00:27:05,533 Speaker 2: Indeed, topic number three Australia's contributions to Super Rugby this year. 509 00:27:05,773 --> 00:27:07,613 Speaker 2: Are they going backwards? Lee and what do you reckon? 510 00:27:09,333 --> 00:27:10,733 Speaker 4: I think there's certainly a case for it. 511 00:27:11,253 --> 00:27:15,493 Speaker 3: I think in recent years we've seen the Australian teams 512 00:27:15,493 --> 00:27:17,573 Speaker 3: even out with the spread of their talents. 513 00:27:17,613 --> 00:27:19,093 Speaker 4: The Force were a great example of that. 514 00:27:19,213 --> 00:27:22,293 Speaker 3: Took them the back end of their year was actually 515 00:27:22,693 --> 00:27:25,893 Speaker 3: highly successful. They didn't start well, they had a number 516 00:27:25,893 --> 00:27:27,933 Speaker 3: of close losses, but it was one of their best 517 00:27:28,013 --> 00:27:31,493 Speaker 3: years in recent memory. But they cannibalized each other to 518 00:27:31,533 --> 00:27:34,373 Speaker 3: a point. The Brumby started well and then shot the bed. 519 00:27:34,413 --> 00:27:36,893 Speaker 3: The Warrior Tales never got going, The Reds were in 520 00:27:36,933 --> 00:27:39,093 Speaker 3: fits and starts. So I think the talent has spread 521 00:27:39,133 --> 00:27:43,013 Speaker 3: quite evenly across Australia and that's almost weakens. They normally 522 00:27:43,053 --> 00:27:45,773 Speaker 3: have one standout team, whether it was the Brumbies or 523 00:27:45,773 --> 00:27:48,413 Speaker 3: the Reds, but this year they were all pretty much 524 00:27:48,453 --> 00:27:55,413 Speaker 3: mediocre and were largely swept aside fairly easily. You know, 525 00:27:55,453 --> 00:27:59,173 Speaker 3: the Reds were competitive in that quarter final, but yeah, 526 00:27:59,213 --> 00:28:03,813 Speaker 3: superbly desperately needs at least one strong Australian team, But 527 00:28:03,893 --> 00:28:06,013 Speaker 3: at this points I'm not sure where that's going. 528 00:28:06,053 --> 00:28:06,933 Speaker 4: To emerge from no. 529 00:28:07,013 --> 00:28:08,933 Speaker 2: Well, we thought the Brumbies were going to that team 530 00:28:08,973 --> 00:28:11,613 Speaker 2: this year, didn't we. You know, they beat all the 531 00:28:11,653 --> 00:28:15,293 Speaker 2: New Zealand sides apart from the Highland the Hurricanes. But 532 00:28:15,373 --> 00:28:18,493 Speaker 2: this year it proved the Australigan teams where they're undoing. 533 00:28:18,573 --> 00:28:21,733 Speaker 2: They lost to the Drewer in Canberra, a game you 534 00:28:21,773 --> 00:28:25,973 Speaker 2: would have expected them to win. Maybe it's time for 535 00:28:25,973 --> 00:28:28,493 Speaker 2: Australia to get back to three teams potentially, maybe they 536 00:28:28,493 --> 00:28:30,333 Speaker 2: had it right in the first place. I don't know. 537 00:28:31,853 --> 00:28:36,373 Speaker 4: I think absolutely from a talent perspective they could. 538 00:28:36,933 --> 00:28:40,813 Speaker 3: I think three teams would be ideal, but that's not 539 00:28:40,933 --> 00:28:43,733 Speaker 3: ideal for the Wallabies. I think you want as many 540 00:28:43,733 --> 00:28:47,973 Speaker 3: players in the shop window, developing, playing every week as possible. 541 00:28:48,013 --> 00:28:52,853 Speaker 3: But I think from a financial perspective and from a 542 00:28:53,813 --> 00:29:00,613 Speaker 3: genuine elite playing perspective, I think Australia is suited for 543 00:29:00,693 --> 00:29:01,333 Speaker 3: three teams. 544 00:29:01,653 --> 00:29:03,853 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a right back in the nineties. 545 00:29:04,413 --> 00:29:06,973 Speaker 2: I mean, along with many other things topic number four. 546 00:29:07,573 --> 00:29:11,013 Speaker 2: Do we read it anything into this for the Wallabies? Obviously, 547 00:29:11,093 --> 00:29:14,373 Speaker 2: Jodsman has three games left for them in the Nation's 548 00:29:14,413 --> 00:29:18,013 Speaker 2: Championship before les Kiss takes the reins. But does super 549 00:29:18,053 --> 00:29:20,613 Speaker 2: form translate into international form. 550 00:29:22,093 --> 00:29:24,333 Speaker 3: I think the Wallabies, if they're at full strength, if 551 00:29:24,413 --> 00:29:29,053 Speaker 3: they have the availability of everyone, including some of you know, 552 00:29:29,093 --> 00:29:34,173 Speaker 3: their overseas players, that they're still capable of knocking over 553 00:29:34,893 --> 00:29:38,373 Speaker 3: most teams on their day. I think they'll struggle for 554 00:29:38,413 --> 00:29:42,653 Speaker 3: consistency that I think they struggle for depth, and it's 555 00:29:42,653 --> 00:29:44,453 Speaker 3: going to be very interesting to see how that coaching 556 00:29:44,493 --> 00:29:48,653 Speaker 3: transition plays out as well. I think less Kiss has 557 00:29:48,693 --> 00:29:51,173 Speaker 3: done a decent job with the Reds, but I think 558 00:29:51,213 --> 00:29:55,013 Speaker 3: he's got a lot to prove as a international coach 559 00:29:55,133 --> 00:29:59,013 Speaker 3: and it's a very challenging market, so yeah, it could be. 560 00:30:00,053 --> 00:30:01,893 Speaker 3: I think we saw that with the Wallabies last year, 561 00:30:01,933 --> 00:30:04,293 Speaker 3: didn't we. They performed well early in the year against 562 00:30:04,293 --> 00:30:06,453 Speaker 3: the spring Box and the British and Irish lines. Then 563 00:30:06,493 --> 00:30:08,293 Speaker 3: they've got a couple of injuries and the back end 564 00:30:08,413 --> 00:30:11,373 Speaker 3: the year they really fell off a cliff. So depth 565 00:30:11,373 --> 00:30:14,413 Speaker 3: and consistency I think are still big concerns for Australian 566 00:30:14,493 --> 00:30:16,333 Speaker 3: rugby and the Wallabies. 567 00:30:16,533 --> 00:30:21,213 Speaker 2: Agrees. Let's get into our three two ones the MVP voting. 568 00:30:22,453 --> 00:30:26,573 Speaker 2: Fofo still maintains his lead, hasn't played in what three 569 00:30:26,613 --> 00:30:29,533 Speaker 2: weeks now, but still out on top on sixteen points, 570 00:30:29,573 --> 00:30:32,853 Speaker 2: Cam roygad on ten, Lister fing Onooku on nine, so 571 00:30:32,973 --> 00:30:36,173 Speaker 2: to Lucas, Casey Warner, Durn's, Christian Lego, Willie. We do 572 00:30:36,253 --> 00:30:39,933 Speaker 2: award points in the finals. So Liam your three two 573 00:30:40,013 --> 00:30:41,013 Speaker 2: ones please. 574 00:30:42,013 --> 00:30:43,973 Speaker 3: Well, Elliott at the back end of the year, I 575 00:30:44,013 --> 00:30:47,413 Speaker 3: think you can't win well Rivers. The REHNA stepped up, 576 00:30:47,413 --> 00:30:48,733 Speaker 3: didn't he for the cruses last year? 577 00:30:48,733 --> 00:30:51,933 Speaker 4: But you need world class tens. 578 00:30:51,973 --> 00:30:55,973 Speaker 3: You needs people to step up in those influential playmaking roles, 579 00:30:55,973 --> 00:30:57,933 Speaker 3: and I think we saw that this weekend. So I'm 580 00:30:57,933 --> 00:31:00,973 Speaker 3: going three to Ruben Love, I'm going two to David 581 00:31:01,133 --> 00:31:05,893 Speaker 3: Villi and I'm going one to Damian McKenzie. So Christian 582 00:31:05,973 --> 00:31:08,173 Speaker 3: Leo where he went close, but no Fords this weekend 583 00:31:08,333 --> 00:31:10,213 Speaker 3: watch for the big boppers. 584 00:31:10,453 --> 00:31:14,213 Speaker 2: It's a clean sweep of the tens. Remarkable. I'm going 585 00:31:14,213 --> 00:31:18,853 Speaker 2: Camroy guard for three. Another exceptional performance from him. Johnny 586 00:31:18,893 --> 00:31:21,773 Speaker 2: McNichol gets my two. I was tossing up similar to you, 587 00:31:21,893 --> 00:31:27,053 Speaker 2: Havilli and also between Leo, Willie, Ethan Blackat. I had 588 00:31:27,053 --> 00:31:30,773 Speaker 2: an argument potentially as well, but mcnicholl just sneaks ahead 589 00:31:30,773 --> 00:31:34,453 Speaker 2: above for me and Damien McKenzie gets my one as well, 590 00:31:34,493 --> 00:31:38,213 Speaker 2: so good week for Damian McKenzie bagging a couple of points. 591 00:31:38,213 --> 00:31:40,853 Speaker 2: I'll throw those into the pod and see where they land. 592 00:31:40,853 --> 00:31:43,893 Speaker 2: With two weeks to go in the Rugby Direct Medal, 593 00:31:43,933 --> 00:31:47,493 Speaker 2: the much sought after I should add Rugby Direct Medal. 594 00:31:47,693 --> 00:31:50,293 Speaker 2: That'll do us for another edition of the pod. You 595 00:31:50,333 --> 00:31:52,933 Speaker 2: can get in touch via the mail bag anytime Rugby 596 00:31:52,973 --> 00:31:55,693 Speaker 2: Direct at News Talk, zb dot co dot and ZED. 597 00:31:55,733 --> 00:31:58,533 Speaker 2: We are back on Thursday. Nate's good to catch up 598 00:31:58,613 --> 00:31:59,653 Speaker 2: as always. 599 00:32:00,413 --> 00:32:03,813 Speaker 3: Indeed, Elliot look forward to chewing through everything Rugby on 600 00:32:03,853 --> 00:32:08,453 Speaker 3: Thursday and making some big Bowl predictions no doubt for 601 00:32:08,733 --> 00:32:11,293 Speaker 3: the semifinals, and make sure that you're on the cane 602 00:32:11,333 --> 00:32:13,253 Speaker 3: train for the business end of this year. 603 00:32:13,373 --> 00:32:14,493 Speaker 2: You were saying you thought I was listening to your 604 00:32:14,493 --> 00:32:16,173 Speaker 2: Blue Scrusader's rematch in the final, would you? 605 00:32:17,453 --> 00:32:18,813 Speaker 4: I was definitely not saying. 606 00:32:19,013 --> 00:32:21,293 Speaker 2: Must have be suard you. That'll do us for Rugby 607 00:32:21,333 --> 00:32:24,533 Speaker 2: directs our producers Mark Kelly and We're powered by Habitall Physio. 608 00:32:24,573 --> 00:32:26,653 Speaker 2: Book today and stay in the game. 609 00:32:27,093 --> 00:32:29,733 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks ed B. Listen live on 610 00:32:29,813 --> 00:32:32,773 Speaker 1: air or online and keep our shows with you wherever 611 00:32:32,813 --> 00:32:35,413 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio,