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Speaker 1: Now, about one in five high school principles have signed

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Speaker 1: that open letter calling on the government to stop its

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Speaker 1: plans to scribe NZA. Erica Stanford's plan to replace NCAA

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Speaker 1: is currently out for consultation, but these principles are warning

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Speaker 1: that we might be creating a quote lost generation. They

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Speaker 1: argue the new standards would disadvantage less academic kids and

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Speaker 1: Erica Stanford is manufacturing a crisis, they say, just to

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Speaker 1: justify the changes. Auckland principal Claire Amos signed the open

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Speaker 1: letter and is with us. Hello Claire Curia, what is

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Speaker 1: your concern I think.

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Speaker 2: My concent I've got a number of concerns. I've got

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Speaker 2: concerns about what is being proposed, but I've also got

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Speaker 2: concerns about the process under which consultation is happening. Firstly,

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Speaker 2: I think NCAA is not perfect. I don't think anyone

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Speaker 2: in that letter is pretending that there isn't things we

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Speaker 2: can improve and tighten and work on with nca I

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Speaker 2: think we worry about what we lose if we were

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Speaker 2: to move away from NCAA. We've got twenty years of

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Speaker 2: graduates who have that as their qualification. We've got at

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Speaker 2: least three more years of graduates who will continue to

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Speaker 2: have NCAA as their qualification. I don't want it to

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Speaker 2: be dismissed as a result of this. I also believe

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Speaker 2: there's real concerns that where we're going, if we do

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Speaker 2: do what is proposed, it's going to have a real impact.

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Speaker 2: It's actually says in the documentation they're expecting a decline

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Speaker 2: in outcomes for MALDI students, specificaus students, disabled students, and

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Speaker 2: students who are ex experiencing health issues. And I think

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Speaker 2: we need to make sure that whatever we do is

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Speaker 2: actually going to look after all of our young people

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Speaker 2: within the system.

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Speaker 1: Now, why do you think it's going to have a

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Speaker 1: great impact on all of the groups that you just named.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that points out it actually talks

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Speaker 2: about this in a recently produced cabinet paper about the proposal.

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Speaker 2: It recognizes that by narrowing the curriculum and reducing the

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Speaker 2: flexibility and forcing studenttudents to have to do whole subjects

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Speaker 2: and have to do a combination of internal and external assessments,

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Speaker 2: that this will potentially reduce the chance of those at

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Speaker 2: risk students to succeed.

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Speaker 1: We actually know that, but because.

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Speaker 2: Nca currently has a level of flexibility.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm making it harder. See as we're making

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Speaker 1: it harder, we are lifting the standard and some of

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Speaker 1: those kids will simply not be able to lift up

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Speaker 1: to it. Isn't that the truth?

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Speaker 2: I think we need to be really careful about how

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Speaker 2: we define making it harder. I've got no problem with

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Speaker 2: diverse definitions of success. I do think we need to

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Speaker 2: lift up those students cannot we need. I'm an English teacher.

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Speaker 2: I think we need to be working on raising literacy

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Speaker 2: and nu mescy.

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Speaker 1: And yet you and your profession are not.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely not, I disagree with you. How are you? Guys?

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Speaker 1: It's okay with what is happening at the minute, which

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Speaker 1: is when we introduce the corectus it kids are failing

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Speaker 1: at these extraordinary rates. Like we are talking and I

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Speaker 1: can't remember which it is, but in some cases you've

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Speaker 1: got like thirty percent to sixty percent of kids in

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Speaker 1: this particular breakdown, this particular thing is subject failing. How

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Speaker 1: did that happen? How are we okay with that?

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Speaker 2: I can actually explain a number of reasons why that happened.

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Speaker 2: We ended up doing a jump in our testing before

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Speaker 2: we had actually lift the curriculum and the teaching and

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Speaker 2: learning program. We need to actually structure and support students

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Speaker 2: with increase teaching and learning and then they are ready

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Speaker 2: to be assessed at that level.

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Speaker 1: But I know that what you're admitting there is that

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Speaker 1: you and look, I'm not I don't please. It's quite confrontational,

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Speaker 1: but I don't want you to feel as if I

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Speaker 1: am like laying being horrible to you. But these kids

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Speaker 1: were not learning the stuff right, so we need to

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Speaker 1: teach them this stuff. And I frankly don't care about

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Speaker 1: anything else. If the kids fail, but at least they

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Speaker 1: can read and write, is that not the more important

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Speaker 1: thing than passing them like we are right now?

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Speaker 2: But the contry what happens when they fail all they

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Speaker 2: leave the system. I don't know if you recall what

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Speaker 2: the results were like prior to NCAA, Maori and Pacifica

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Speaker 2: are incredibly overrepresented in the groups that left at the

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Speaker 2: end of fifth form with no qualification.

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Speaker 1: What's the point the system? What's the point in having

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Speaker 1: them in the system If they come out of year

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Speaker 1: thirteen but they can't read and write properly?

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Speaker 2: I think we absolutely need to be looking looking at

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Speaker 2: the literacy and numeracy. We've got far greater chance of

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Speaker 2: supporting them if they remain in the system and wrap

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Speaker 2: around them and support them. I'm not arguing about lowering

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Speaker 2: at the bar. I'm saying we raise it, but we

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Speaker 2: ensure that we give time for the teaching and learning

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Speaker 2: and the curriculum to be embedded first, having change it.

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Speaker 1: You're asking for when you talk about time, you are

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Speaker 1: asking for cohorts of students who do not get the

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Speaker 1: learning right. That's what time means every year that we

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Speaker 1: pass by.

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Speaker 2: But you're in turn, you'd rather have cohorts of students

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Speaker 2: that actually get closed out of the education system altogether.

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Speaker 1: Listen, if they get closed out, but they can read

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Speaker 1: and write, what's more important.

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Speaker 2: No, but we'll see what happens is they fail at

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Speaker 2: year eleven and they leave the system without qualifications. I

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Speaker 2: would much rather have a system that wraps around them

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Speaker 2: and keeps them in school and supports them. I am

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Speaker 2: not arguing for a dumbing down. I'm asking for wrap

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Speaker 2: around and support, and it's focus on the curriculum and

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Speaker 2: teaching and learning first. When we've embedded that, absolutely we

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Speaker 2: start shifting how we assess them. But we need to

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Speaker 2: do the groundwork first. We need to take care of

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Speaker 2: these young people and keep them in the education system

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Speaker 2: as long as possible.

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Speaker 1: Claire, I really appreciate you being so frank with I.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, appreciate it. That's Claire amos Auckland

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Speaker 1: High School principle. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.