1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Kiyota. 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Communities around 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: the country are waiting with baited breath for news about 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: major infrastructure projects, ones that are set to cost a 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: lot of money. The Government's expected to announce the future 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: of inter Islander's Cook Straight ferries this week, after the 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 2: three billion dollar mega ferry contract was canned last year 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: due to significant cost blowouts. Meanwhile, a reporter has revealed 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: a lack of confidence in a French contractor's forecasts for 11 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: the five point five billion dollar city rail Link in Auckland. 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: The company has execs flying out this month to address 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: those concerns. There's apparently a fifty percent likelihood the November 14 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five completion date will be met later on 15 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 2: the Front Page. Transporting New Zealand's policy and advocacy lead 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: Billy Clemmens is with us to discuss why the industry 17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: is on tenter hooks over the upcoming decision around the 18 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: Cook Straight ferries. But First Public Transport Users Association chairperson 19 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: Neil Robertson is with us to discuss the City rail link. 20 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: Neil what have we heard about the state of Auckland's 21 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 2: City rail Link. 22 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 3: The City rail Link is always a little bit of 23 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 3: a worry because it's always there's always some concerns about 24 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 3: budget overruns and the time it takes to actually get 25 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 3: the thing finished. You know, when will it be actually 26 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 3: finished and will be finished on time? And I think 27 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: Auckland is a really keen to get this thing up 28 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 3: and running and get to use it and also get 29 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 3: to use the rest of the railway system without all 30 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 3: the disruptions and things that go with that. I think 31 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: there's a lot of conjecture at the moment as to 32 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 3: whether it's going to be a kind of over budget. 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 3: But Shawn sween you always warned us that once the 34 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: whole deal was done and built, it was a lot 35 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 3: of the other little infrastructure that goes into the tunnel 36 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 3: that it can actually cause problems, which is what happened 37 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 3: in the Crossrail problem project in London, where the project 38 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 3: was finished on time, on budget, but all the extra 39 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: sit signaling and wiring and whatever else that they required 40 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 3: in there actually took it way off budget and way 41 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 3: over time. So there is some anxiety about that at 42 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 3: the moment. 43 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, well, a press release from CRL just 44 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: a few days ago said critical rail network upgrades being 45 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: delivered before CRL opens in twenty twenty six. So it 46 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 2: does sound like it's still convinced of this twenty twenty 47 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: six completion date. Is that a pipe dream? 48 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 4: Though? 49 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: At this point? 50 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 3: Do you think, Well, they actually can't tell you for 51 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 3: sure because they have us think that. I think it's 52 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 3: a call it a P fifty or something, which means 53 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 3: that it's fifty percent chance that it will be open 54 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: actually on time on that time, And I think that's 55 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 3: about as much as they can give you at the moment. 56 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 3: It could run a little bit over that, but it 57 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 3: might actually might actually make it. Yeah, why has. 58 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: It taken so long for this one project to be built? 59 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 2: Like nearly a decade under construction for three point five 60 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: kilometers seems a bit ridiculous, doesn't it. 61 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 3: It is an awful long time for a short There's 62 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: a couple of things too. That one is the lack 63 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: of a skill in New Zealand. We don't have a 64 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 3: pipeline of these sort of projects going through the New 65 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 3: Zealand system, and so we actually have to import a 66 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 3: lot of expertise and we have to sort of innovate 67 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: a little bit with various other people. So there's a 68 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 3: lot of people who are sort of learning to get 69 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 3: to work together. But the other thing was COVID actually 70 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 3: did actually take quite a bit out of this project 71 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 3: and caused lots of delays. COVID actually was quite disruptive. Otherwise, 72 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 3: it's actually come along quite smoothly. I've actually walked through 73 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 3: it myself and seen it, and it is a good 74 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: I have done a good job of it. It's a 75 00:03:58,560 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 3: great tunnel. 76 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: Because of the City rail Link, Auckland's rail network will 77 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: be closed for ninety six days in twenty twenty five, 78 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: starting this month, across the entire summer period. Does that 79 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: feel like a bit much? 80 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? It does, and it feels like it's been going 81 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 3: on forever. The narrative is that the Aukland rail system 82 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 3: is going to be rebuilt because it hasn't been touched 83 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: for many, many years. It's actually not altogether true, because 84 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: the entire system has got new sleeper's, new rail, new ballast, 85 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 3: new signals. What is really happening in reality is that 86 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: the trains that they have for the Auproand rail system 87 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: actually require a higher standard of track than New Zealand 88 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 3: has had in the past, and so what Kyrail have 89 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: had to do is to increase the standard of the 90 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 3: track to be able to take the trains that we 91 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 3: use in Auckland without causing too much damage to the 92 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: railway lines. If the line is not properly drained and 93 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 3: kept even and a level in all places, and the 94 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: railheads ground down with a grinder, they will have a 95 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 3: problem called rolling contact fatigue. And I don't know if 96 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 3: you remember, but back in about twenty twenty one, I 97 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 3: think it was the system actually found that out and 98 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: that's why they had to replace virtually all the track 99 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 3: in Auckland, or not all of it, but a lot 100 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 3: of track in Auckland. Because you get rolling contact fatigue 101 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 3: on your track, you have to replace the line. So 102 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 3: they're actually that's what they're doing, is they're rebuilding the 103 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 3: standard of Auckland so that we'll guard against rolling contact fatigue. 104 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 3: Another solution would have been to actually have had trains, 105 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 3: perhaps like the Wellington system, which actually don't need this 106 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 3: high level of standard, and then we'd have less of 107 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 3: the disruption. The disruption has actually sort of been compounded 108 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 3: because it's you know, they learned about the rolling contact fatigue. 109 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: Latterly they've replaced all the tracks, so we had a disruption. 110 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 3: Then now they're going to have to go back and 111 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 3: do it all again properly, so that it's actually is 112 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 3: their of mitigation against that problem, far more than any 113 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 3: any other city in any other part of the world 114 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 3: that has had to put up with. But hopefully if 115 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 3: they do do it all, and they do do it 116 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 3: properly and they keep the maintenance up, Auckland will have 117 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 3: a first class railway. 118 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: And presumably it's going to be quite hot over the 119 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: summer period as well, when we know what happens when 120 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: the tracks get hot. 121 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 3: If they do this maintenance properly, there will be less 122 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: problems with heat buckling, and so that should actually mitigate 123 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 3: a lot of that as well. One of the things 124 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 3: that we found in Auckland is it that you know, 125 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 3: there seem to be problems when there was unpredicted problems, 126 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 3: things like points failures because they got some shonky equipment. Also, 127 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 3: the wind blows a little bit too much and then 128 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 3: we get a shortening out of some of the wires 129 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 3: and things, and these are the sort of things that 130 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 3: they really have to guard against and they've really got 131 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: to put more time and effort into actually getting up 132 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 3: and running properly. And so you know, again, all I 133 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 3: can say really is hopefully they will, because they haven't 134 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: to date, but hopefully they will, and hopefully all these 135 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 3: things will be mitigated. But it's an awful lot to 136 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 3: ask of the Aukland people. My concern always is how 137 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 3: this will affect patronage on public transport, because public transport 138 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 3: users obviously want to have good quality public transport and 139 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 3: don't want to be forced back into using cars. And 140 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: one of the things that people don't realize actually thirty 141 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 3: percent of our population actually rely on public support. That's 142 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: the young people, the elderly, disabled people and people on 143 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: low incomes, and there are a lot of people who 144 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 3: actually don't like to drive as well. So without a 145 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 3: good public transport system, you're actually forcing people into a 146 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 3: car dependent kind of a transport system. And that's not 147 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 3: what we want. We want to have good public transport 148 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 3: and it should be made available and usable as much 149 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 3: as possible. And these these disruptions are executively the antithesis 150 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 3: of that. 151 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: We need money will help us pay the ring. Customers 152 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: not coming here because they're not coming. No matter how 153 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: much it's been you know, twenty thousand on promotion, two 154 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand on promotion. People are not coming. You 155 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: usual heard no noise. He's going to get worse. 156 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: Well, the CRL is costing billions of dollars in businesses 157 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 2: in Auckland's CBD have been affected. And it's only again, 158 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: like I say, three point five kilometers. By comparison, Sydney 159 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 2: built a sixteen kilometer twin tunnel under its harbor in 160 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: just seven years. So do you think this CRL is 161 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 2: going to be worth it in the end. 162 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 3: Oh, the CRL will be worth it in the end. 163 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 3: As I say, in New Zealand, we don't have the 164 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 3: same sort of level of expertise because we're not doing 165 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 3: it as commonly as other people do. They're businesses that 166 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 3: were affected that that was a debut. All of those 167 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 3: businesses should have actually been compensated, and that should have 168 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 3: been front loaded into the cost of the whole deal 169 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 3: because they just came in and they started disrupting all 170 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 3: these businesses and the businesses had no comeback. But ultimately, 171 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 3: when it is I honestly believe that it'll come into 172 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,119 Speaker 3: its own and people will probably forget about the price. 173 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 2: Well changing tax slightly. But there's been a lot of 174 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 2: headlines in recent weeks about NZTA wanting to see councils 175 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 2: hit new revenue targets for public transport. Some councils have 176 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 2: suggested that that could see fees rise seventy percent in 177 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 2: some areas. What's happening here and are those fair rises justifiable? 178 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 3: No, fair rises are never justifiable. You've have to have 179 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: a look at what public transport is there for. As 180 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 3: I say, it's there actually is an absolute service for 181 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: those that need it, but it's also there as a 182 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 3: service to the public, and it's also there to actually 183 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 3: get people out of cars, to reduce congestion on the roads. 184 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 3: It's actually there to actually reduce greenhouse gases. It's actually 185 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: there to actually provide a healthier way of getting about 186 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 3: the city. And as soon as you actually start to 187 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 3: actually put targets in the farebox, you're actually going to 188 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 3: become counterproductive. If you want to probably earn a little 189 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 3: bit more money, maybe reduce the fear slightly and you 190 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 3: might get a little bit more patronage and therefore you 191 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 3: might get a little bit more money. You increase the 192 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 3: farebox take and you start getting less passengers and you 193 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 3: just can't get beyond that. You know, there's only so 194 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: much you can actually take through the farebox of public 195 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: transport before you actually are starting to just sort of 196 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 3: disincline people to use it, and then you're going to 197 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 3: get the offshoots of greater congestion, less productivity due to that, 198 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 3: more road damage. It's a silly game to play. Basically, 199 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 3: public transport should be as free as possible and we 200 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 3: should be encouraging as many people to use it as possible. 201 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us now. New Zealand is finally expecting 202 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: an announcement about the future of its Cook Straight ferries 203 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: to discuss, we're joined now by Billy Clemens, Transporting New 204 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: Zealand's policy and advocacy lead. First off, Billy, when news 205 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: broke that Nicola Willis was canceling that mega ferry contract, 206 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: what was the industry's first response, the. 207 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 4: Position of Transport in New Zealand and our road freight 208 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 4: company members was that the government made the right decision 209 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 4: to terminate the Iris mega ferries project. Look, it was 210 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 4: definitely a tough call and only some really significant sunk 211 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 4: costs involved, but what we'd seen in that project was 212 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 4: just a series of cost blowouts, and if anyone's interested, 213 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 4: I really encouraged them to check out the time frame 214 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 4: put out by the government guarding that Irex projects. You know, 215 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 4: to start in November twenty eighteen with an estimated price 216 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 4: of you know, seven hundred and seventy five million, although 217 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 4: that's you know, business case figures can can fluctuate a bit, 218 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 4: but then to end up in February twenty twenty three 219 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 4: or at the end of the project closer to three billion. 220 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 4: I think it was just the fact that unfortunately that 221 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 4: project had sort of lost its way. I think that 222 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 4: the cost blowouts were continuing, and you know, there's there's 223 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 4: the guvernment was getting advice from Treasury and Ministry of 224 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 4: Transport that there were serious concerns around the management of 225 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 4: the project and whether it could be effectively delivered, and 226 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 4: so I think that that was the right decision. And 227 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 4: also I think that the road freight industry had been concerned, 228 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 4: you know, from the beginning of the project that it 229 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 4: was spending a lot of money on two very large vessels, 230 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 4: but ultimately when you've only got two operating, unlike the 231 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 4: three that we've got at the moment, that introduces a 232 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 4: sort of risk to resilience, Whereas if one of those 233 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 4: vessels needs to go out for scheduled maintenance or an 234 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 4: unscheduled event, that really only leads you with one vessel operating. 235 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 4: So that was another concern that our members had, as 236 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 4: well as the management of the project and the overall cost. 237 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: So there's an announcement due this week on the ferries 238 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 2: project by the government. You're hoping for more than two. 239 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 4: I think that that would be optimal from from our position. However, 240 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 4: there's obviously currently two services operating across the strait, and 241 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 4: so our position has been looked. We're not locked in 242 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 4: particularly to one particular decision. I mean, whether it's a 243 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 4: service still operating as an SOE or you know, support 244 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 4: for another private operator coming in. Our primary concerns that 245 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 4: look so, so long as there are multiple vessels operating, 246 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 4: from our consideration, you know, from our position, we'd really 247 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 4: like that to be several vessels at least operating on 248 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 4: a competitive service, so that we avoid a situation we 249 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 4: end up with a monopoly across the strait. Because we 250 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 4: all know that in that monopoly situation, you can end 251 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 4: up with higher prices in a less satisfactory service for 252 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 4: businesses and consumers. 253 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: In the year it's taken for the government to decide 254 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: on a cheaper alternative. Art has run aground. Ken we 255 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 2: Rowl's chairman retired early and there have been calls for 256 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 2: Willis to resign. Do you think it's good enough that 257 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 2: we've had to wait a year for an alternative? 258 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've certainly got some sympathy for those voices saying 259 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 4: it's been a long time. However, overall we're reasonably satisfied 260 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 4: with the process that the government's gone through. I think 261 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 4: it getting that independent Ministerial Advisory group with some pretty 262 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 4: smart commercial operators there to provide some good solid advice. 263 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 4: But the government also asked Ministry of Transport to go 264 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 4: and do some substantive advice sort of looking at the 265 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 4: long term requirements across the Strait that we're able to 266 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 4: contribute to. So I think that, you know, whereas it 267 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 4: has been a delay and there has been some stress 268 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 4: involved for our members crossing the Strait and you know, 269 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 4: wanting to support their staff and members operating moving live 270 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 4: stock across the Strait for example, that hasn't been ideal. 271 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 4: I think it is appropriate that the government's taken some 272 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 4: time to make sure they get this decision right, and 273 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 4: we're really hoping that when we get this announcement that 274 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 4: the government's going to be able to have a pretty 275 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 4: firm action plan in place so that we can get 276 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 4: these vessels operating as soon as possible, because I think 277 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 4: it was appropriate that some time was taken and that 278 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 4: some good advice was obtained. 279 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 3: As the government committed to rail and able ferries, and. 280 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 5: That's something that we'll work through. There's a whole bunch 281 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 5: of options on the table. The Minister of Advisor and 282 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 5: Group has given advice to the government about procurement and 283 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 5: will work our way through that in due course. 284 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: Do you think the first will let you. 285 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 5: Not to It's not a conversation we've got into. There's 286 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 5: a Minister of Advisory Group we put in place as 287 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 5: soon as we came to power. The report's been generated 288 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 5: and given to us at the end of last week. 289 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 5: That needs to be digested by the shareholding ministers. But 290 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 5: what you can be assured about is that we're going 291 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 5: to get the right ships on the cock straight ferry. 292 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 2: Deputy Prime Minister and New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters. 293 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: He let it slip that the government will decide on 294 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 2: the ferries by today. I guess that's a bit of 295 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: a relief. And also he's been a long advocate of 296 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: making sure that those fairies continue to have rail enablement. 297 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: That's a relief, isn't it. 298 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think from our perspective, this issue of rail 299 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 4: enabled fairies which sort of allows them to you know, 300 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 4: rail those rail wagons to be effectively driven straight onto 301 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 4: vessels versus rail compatible that situation, where are you going 302 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 4: to you get rail wagons taken off their tracks and 303 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 4: loaded on to ferries. So look, I think that from 304 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 4: an overall supply chain perspective, it it is important to 305 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 4: see rail compatibility. I think that Transport and New Zone 306 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 4: has been less concerned about rail enablement simply because that 307 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 4: does add an element of cost to a project. And 308 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 4: you know, we're our viewers. So long as you've got 309 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 4: some rail compatibility and the ability for rail to continue 310 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 4: to play the important role that it does, particularly around 311 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 4: you know, bulk cargo and right, that isn't time sensitive. 312 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 4: And I think we've heard some reassuring comments from the 313 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 4: government about the fact that they will continue to be 314 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 4: some rail compatibility, if not rail enablement. 315 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: The Prime is so yesterday didn't really reveal any more details, 316 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 2: but he did say that the option or the announcement 317 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 2: will be cheaper than Labour's i REX project. Are you 318 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 2: satisfied with whatever the government's decided to do a It'll 319 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 2: be a good decision and not one that's been done 320 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 2: on the cheap and we'll have to replace sooner rather 321 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 2: than later. I suppose if that's the case, would you 322 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: be happy with that? 323 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, Frankly, we're going to have to wait and see 324 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 4: with the announcement. I think that you know what we 325 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 4: will be focused on, will be holding the government to 326 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 4: account on is look, is this going to deliver a safe, 327 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 4: resilient service that still ensures competition across the Strait so 328 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 4: you don't hit up with that monopoly operator. Yes, So 329 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 4: we'll wait and see along with our members and other 330 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 4: supply chain partners, and we'll certainly be holding the government 331 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 4: to account on how they deliver the project, because it 332 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 4: is it's really essential. I mean, it's thirty billion dollars 333 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 4: of for eighty year, equivalent to about seven percent of 334 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 4: new Zealand's GDP, so it's essential there's an action plan 335 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 4: for how these new vessels are going to be rolled out. 336 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: Well, the Cook Straight is essentially an extension of State 337 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 2: Highway one and Hay and it's really important not only 338 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 2: to get people across from one island to the other, 339 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 2: but freight. 340 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 4: Yeah. Look, look we've been saying this a lot. You know, 341 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 4: our chief executive Dom Classie, it seems like he's been 342 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 4: asked for comment on the ferries almost as much as 343 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 4: he is on some traditional roading issues this year. You know, 344 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 4: it's a big deal and I think that you know, yeah, 345 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 4: whether you're a passenger and you're using that service or 346 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 4: whether you're someone who's relying on getting the ninety three 347 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 4: percent of goods in New Zealand transported by road, it's 348 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 4: really essential. I fig that what we've been hearing from 349 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 4: some of our operators with particular concerns of those transporting 350 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 4: livestock because obviously that's particularly sensitive cargo and if you 351 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 4: end up with delays there then you can end up 352 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 4: with some real animal wealthier risks and also operators are 353 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 4: carrying you know, refrigerated cargo are the time sensitive stock. 354 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 4: It really starts to impact our members's road freight operators. 355 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 4: You know, truck drivers can only works a certain number 356 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 4: of hours per day and per week. Soon as you 357 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 4: end up with the delay and they're parked up, it 358 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 4: means that essentially hit the d allowed working hours, so 359 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 4: you have to provide for relief drivers and all that 360 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 4: just results in delays and costs for consumers that no 361 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:17,959 Speaker 4: one wants to be dealing with. 362 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Billy, Thanks. 363 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 4: So much, Chelsea. 364 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 365 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 366 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 2: at enzadherld dot co dot enz. The Front Page is 367 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also 368 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 2: our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front 369 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 2: Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and 370 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 2: tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.