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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debate of us. Now the lighton

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Speaker 1: Smith podcast Power It by News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to podcasts three hundred and six four October fifteen,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. Now this week's podcast concentrates on geopolitics

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Speaker 2: and international relations, which will come as no surprise. Whatever

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Speaker 2: one may have thought of Donald Trump over the course

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Speaker 2: of this year. Since January twenty one, when he assumed

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Speaker 2: office for his second presidential term, his true character has

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Speaker 2: broken through. And there are many cliches, but I'll stay

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Speaker 2: with the one that I used first off some considerable time,

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Speaker 2: back cometh the R cometh the man. It's not mine,

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Speaker 2: I pitched it from whoever first said it, but it's true.

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Speaker 2: So this week we present two interviews based on the

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Speaker 2: Middle East and the event that held the world's attention

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Speaker 2: and still does. Israeli Ambassador Erlin Roth provides his commentary,

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Speaker 2: garnered from a diplomatic career spread far and wide across

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Speaker 2: the globe. He is I discovered not just a good speaker.

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Speaker 2: He is intelligent, philosophical and a nice guy. George Treedman

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Speaker 2: delivers a variation on the theme derived from substantial experience

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Speaker 2: in the world of international relations and geopolitics and education.

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Speaker 2: Both make submissions that deserve our attention. So the format

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Speaker 2: this week is as follows Ambassador Roth, George Triedman, and

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Speaker 2: then we wind up with missus producer in the mail room.

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Speaker 2: But first I have something I want to share with

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Speaker 2: you very briefly, and that is that the month of

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Speaker 2: October this year is a very significant one. It was

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Speaker 2: forty years ago, in October of nineteen eighty five, that

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Speaker 2: I joined a radio station called one ZB in Auckland.

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Speaker 2: I'd spent five years in Wellington, I'd moved back to Australia.

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Speaker 2: I was working in Adelaide until I got a phone

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Speaker 2: call and gave it some consideration. Are they up to consideration?

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Speaker 2: So I accepted the consideration, shall we say so? I

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Speaker 2: thought it was going to be a short period forty years.

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Speaker 2: If you'd said to me back then, you will be

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Speaker 2: here in forty years time, I would have laughed in

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Speaker 2: your face. So why did I stay forty years? Variety

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Speaker 2: of reasons but one can only say that obviously it

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Speaker 2: became home. We might talk a little more about it

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Speaker 2: in the mail room next week with MISSUS producer. Now

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Speaker 2: in just a moment, Ambassador Ellen Roth, Israeli Ambassador Alan Roth,

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Speaker 2: it's very good to meet you.

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Speaker 3: Very nice to be here, especially in a day like that.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, well, we had a quick chat this morning. It

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Speaker 2: decided that we would wait until the until the hostages

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Speaker 2: were being released, so we could at least cover that off.

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Speaker 2: Now you, I know, we're watching an Israeli channel. I

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Speaker 2: don't know whether you got the same pictures as the

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Speaker 2: rest of US. I was all over the television networks,

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Speaker 2: but settled basically for Fox. But we didn't get to

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Speaker 2: see something that I thought we would, and that was

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Speaker 2: some returning hostages.

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Speaker 3: Hmmm, very interesting.

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Speaker 2: And you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this was the difference between the Israeli channels.

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Speaker 3: These early channels showed, between the Israeli channels and the

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Speaker 3: foreign channels. These Weethi channels were mainly showing the human

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Speaker 3: stories there. They showed the hostages, you know, the first

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Speaker 3: photos that were taken off them. They showed the families,

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Speaker 3: they showed the hundreds of thousands of people that are

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Speaker 3: cheering all around Israel, even after two years of this

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Speaker 3: very very, very heavily costing war. And this was really

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Speaker 3: heartwarming to see the personal, family, national kind of story.

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Speaker 3: And in parallel to this, it was very interesting to

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Speaker 3: see on half of the screen the plane of the

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Speaker 3: US President Donald Trump lending in his were received by

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Speaker 3: the dignitaries. So on the one hand you saw the men,

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Speaker 3: and from the other side you saw the happiness and

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Speaker 3: the cheering of the crowds and of the whole nation.

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Speaker 3: This was enormous.

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Speaker 2: I've not seen applying land and have the red carpet

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Speaker 2: rolled out right to the door. That was rather impressive.

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Speaker 2: There's the answer to something that I'm that I don't know,

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Speaker 2: and that is what on earth was he doing inside

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Speaker 2: that plane for so long? We were getting quite agitated.

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Speaker 4: Well, I know he spoke to an Israeli journalist because

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Speaker 4: we got some some words out of this conversation, not

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Speaker 4: too many. But look, he has done the work before,

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Speaker 4: He's going to do the work afterwards. And I think

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Speaker 4: that the role that the United States played here is

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Speaker 4: really a manifestation of the right thing to do. And

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Speaker 4: I'm very happy that this was achieved through the American

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Speaker 4: diplomacy and by the American President and the American employees

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Speaker 4: to the to the region, and that took this very

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Speaker 4: difficult situation and tried to find solutions and try to

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Speaker 4: understand what Israel really wants, which.

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Speaker 3: Is peace, peace and peace. And I think that this

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Speaker 3: is what this region needs when we see these death

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Speaker 3: carts in front of us, and we want the peace.

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Speaker 3: And we were very happy to see the process and

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Speaker 3: the outcome today.

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Speaker 2: Let's get to the to the desk squad in a moment.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever known something to develop and come to

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Speaker 2: fruition with such success to this point as what we

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Speaker 2: witness tonight.

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Speaker 3: You look, there is no doubt that there are still

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Speaker 3: are lots of challenges that are awaiting us, even the

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Speaker 3: you know, even in the midst of the euphoria we

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Speaker 3: Israeli is. You know, we know this region, We know

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Speaker 3: what entities exist in this region. Some of them are

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Speaker 3: nation entities, some of them are organizations, and we know

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Speaker 3: that the challenges are still with us. But we are

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Speaker 3: very happy that at least the huge i would say

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Speaker 3: national emotional human challenge that we had, which is the hostages,

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Speaker 3: came to a solution. And you know what, when we

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Speaker 3: know that in a few hours time we're going to

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Speaker 3: get the corpse of those who were kidnapped and were

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Speaker 3: murdered and who are not going to return back to

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Speaker 3: Israel alive, we know that there are challenges still ahead.

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Speaker 3: And yes, there is a death cult in front of us.

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Speaker 3: And this is why, in the midst of the happiness

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Speaker 3: that we have right now in the streets of tel Avision,

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Speaker 3: if you would see now the television, you will be amazed.

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Speaker 3: I am in front of a screen in parallel to

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Speaker 3: our conversation, and I see the people dancing, cheering, shouting, smiles,

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Speaker 3: link singing, and at the same time we know that

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Speaker 3: we're going to get twenty eight corps very soon of

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Speaker 3: dead Israelis that were murdered. So these are the challenges

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Speaker 3: and the happiness in Parla.

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Speaker 2: Well, put something in a perspective for me, if you

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Speaker 2: would there were two two hundred and fifty odd people

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Speaker 2: who were kidnapped, and yet how many had been released before?

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Speaker 3: Well, there were few few occasions in which there were

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Speaker 3: people were released in the beginning a bit more than

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Speaker 3: one hundred, and after that one more batch and then

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Speaker 3: of course it stopped. But yeah, we knew that many

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Speaker 3: of those who were kidnapped first and foremost were murdered

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Speaker 3: on the way to Gaza. Some of them were murdered

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Speaker 3: in Gaza. We knew that not everyone is going to

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Speaker 3: come back unfortunately, not going to come back to it

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Speaker 3: are alive. So we knew it. We hoped all the

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Speaker 3: time that everyone is going to come back and the

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Speaker 3: stories that we heard or the data that we had

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Speaker 3: about the fact that some of dad is wrong. But

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Speaker 3: unfortunately this is reality. And this is why I'm saying

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Speaker 3: that there are still challenges. This is the region and

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Speaker 3: this is the cults that we are standing in front.

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Speaker 2: Seeing that you've raised the challenge question, what is there

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Speaker 2: and is let me just back up here a second,

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Speaker 2: because in my channel hopping, what I discovered was that

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Speaker 2: very few people who were discussing this came out with

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Speaker 2: anything new. They were all saying the same sorts of things.

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Speaker 2: Because we'd reach point where so much has been said

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Speaker 2: and so many questions asked that there wasn't much new

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Speaker 2: to ask. But what do you think might be the

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Speaker 2: biggest threat or threats to this not succeeding? And I'm

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Speaker 2: not trying to be negative, I'm just trying to be

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Speaker 2: realistic over the next two periods of these three that

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Speaker 2: have to be worked through.

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Speaker 3: I think you are asking an excellent question, because I

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Speaker 3: think that this is exactly the issue in front of us,

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Speaker 3: and I will even answer it wider than the question itself.

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Speaker 3: But first and for firstly the question, there is no

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Speaker 3: doubt that we should remember that this is only the

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Speaker 3: first phase. There was a phase before that in which

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Speaker 3: the Israeli army withdrew within Gaza, within the Gaza Strip

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Speaker 3: to a certain line, yellow line it was called, and

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Speaker 3: this was the first movement after that. Now the release

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Speaker 3: of the hostages, the live hostages, the dead hostages, and

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Speaker 3: we still have in front of us big challenges like

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Speaker 3: the need for Hamas to disarm itself and the continuation

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Speaker 3: of the process. And each one of us read the

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Speaker 3: twenty points of the Trump President Trump's plan and we

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Speaker 3: know that they are very strong, very powerful, or very

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Speaker 3: problematic steps ahead. But permit me to why don't it

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Speaker 3: Whyden the scope for a second? I think that what

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Speaker 3: we see is a part of this problematic in which

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Speaker 3: you have countries like Israel and few others, for example,

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Speaker 3: the abram Accord countries who chose a certain path of cooperation,

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Speaker 3: of peace, of agreements, of getting something good together, of

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Speaker 3: building something good together. And we see in front of

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Speaker 3: us those like Iran and its proxies all around, and

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Speaker 3: not only them, who chose another path. And I think

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Speaker 3: that this is the main issue in front of us,

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Speaker 3: beyond the question of the two phases ahead in Gaza.

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Speaker 3: And this is when I spoke about challenges d S

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Speaker 3: is the issue. The issue is how do we change

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Speaker 3: the trajectory, the vector of what's happening in the Middle

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Speaker 3: East towards this cooperation, peaceful kind of arrangements and not

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Speaker 3: the desire for death as I called it million times

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Speaker 3: already death cult that is contradicting this peaceful direction.

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Speaker 2: What to quotes you something that was written in twenty

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Speaker 2: fourteen by Matty Friedman, independent journalist, out of the heading

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Speaker 2: of Israel and the Middle East, the Israel Story. Is

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Speaker 2: there anything left to say about Israel and Gaza? Newspapers

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Speaker 2: this summer have been full of little else. Television viewers

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Speaker 2: see heaps of rubble and plumes of smoke in their sleep.

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Speaker 2: A representative article from a recent issue of The New

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Speaker 2: Yorker described the summer's events by dedicating one sentence each

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Speaker 2: to the horrors Nigeria and Ukraine, four sentences to the

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Speaker 2: crazed genocidals of Isis and the rest of the article

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Speaker 2: thirty sentences to Israel and Gaza. What changed between that period?

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Speaker 2: It is a very interesting article, by the way, What

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Speaker 2: changed that from that period that he was writing about

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Speaker 2: to eleven years later?

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Speaker 3: But now it's not thirty phrases, it's seventy five phrases

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Speaker 3: about Israel and this kind of nonfur treatment that Israel

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Speaker 3: is getting time in again, time in again, this kind

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Speaker 3: of manipulation of facts, this kind of taking Israel, portraying,

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Speaker 3: you know, changing the whole story and the whole narrative.

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Speaker 3: We have here a democracy that is fighting an existential

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Speaker 3: threat by a terror organization, that is driving by a

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Speaker 3: terror cult, and unfortunately the story is flipped over one

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Speaker 3: hundred and eighty percent, and the thirty phrases that you

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Speaker 3: speak about talk about in twenty fourteen became seventy five

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Speaker 3: phrases in our times ten a bit more than ten

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Speaker 3: years later. I think that the treatment that Israel is

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Speaker 3: getting is unbelievably wrong and non fair. And again people

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Speaker 3: forget or people want to forget or the media wants

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Speaker 3: to portray it, portray the whole story upside down again.

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Speaker 3: Instead of a democracy fighting for its life, they portray

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Speaker 3: as well as the bad guy. And this is the story.

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Speaker 3: It's the same story, but it was magnified tenfold.

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Speaker 2: But Israel has had to tolerate that for some considerable time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, is weel tolerating it. And by the way, on

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Speaker 3: the same time and in parallel, look how many Israeli achievements,

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Speaker 3: what contribution Israel is doing to the world in whatever.

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Speaker 3: Just give me a field and I will show you

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Speaker 3: whether in high tech, in innovation, in agriculture, in water

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Speaker 3: management and environment, in every possible field of technology and

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Speaker 3: non technology, you will find Israel is trying to contribute

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Speaker 3: in parallel to the unfair treatment and in parallel to

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Speaker 3: these challenges and threats that we have. And unfortunately, mainly

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Speaker 3: the media is trying to portray Israel as a one

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Speaker 3: story nation, as one issue nation, and usually a negative one,

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Speaker 3: magnifying its ten fold. And this is very wrong, not

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Speaker 3: just because it is anti is well because as I said,

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Speaker 3: it is changing the vector from a cooperation, peaceful vector

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Speaker 3: to the vector of war. And this is something that

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Speaker 3: I'm very sorry to hear time in again, what is it? Sorry?

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Speaker 2: What is it then that the media and I think

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Speaker 2: we mostly talk newspapers when we mentioned the media in

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Speaker 2: this context, but the broad media, if you like, what

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Speaker 2: is it that they don't get or get wrong? If

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Speaker 2: you want about Israel.

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Speaker 3: I think that you don't get Israel at all. You know,

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Speaker 3: when you visit Israel, when you see, for example, the

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Speaker 3: people walking in the streets, you see all colors, you

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Speaker 3: hear so many languages, you see so many restaurants that

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Speaker 3: show that there is a magnificent mixture. I call it

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Speaker 3: salad of nations and cultures in Israel that live together,

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Speaker 3: that work together, that create together. By the way, not

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Speaker 3: all of them are Jews. Jews and Muslims and Christians

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Speaker 3: and Bahai's and Jews and everything all together. And unfortunately

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Speaker 3: the media doesn't show this. Why don't they show it?

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Speaker 3: That's a question not for me, but I know the

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Speaker 3: end result is that they prefer not to show it.

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Speaker 3: They prefer to choose only the story of the war.

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Speaker 3: And even there they flipped the story upside down and

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Speaker 3: Israel becomes the bad guy, as I said, and not

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Speaker 3: the one who is trying to reach peace and is

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Speaker 3: trying to contribute to the international community, which is the

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Speaker 3: factual story.

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Speaker 2: Where have you been positioned in the world.

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Speaker 4: I began many years ago in Africa, in Cameroon. I

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Speaker 4: served many times in Europe in the European Union, a

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Speaker 4: few times in London. I served in the Arab world,

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Speaker 4: in Jordan, I served in Norway, and now I'm here

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Speaker 4: in this beautiful, calm country yours.

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Speaker 2: Well. The reason for that sort of out of context question,

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Speaker 2: when I asked it, I did have a context and

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Speaker 2: the question to follow. I just wanted to establish the

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Speaker 2: breadth of your experience. And the question to follow is

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Speaker 2: why is it that in so many parts of the

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Speaker 2: world you have people like we've tolerated is the wrong word,

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Speaker 2: people who we've had to put up with like we

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Speaker 2: are at this particular point of time, disrupting life in

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Speaker 2: capital cities, in major cities, getting in people's faces, being obnoxious, nasty,

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Speaker 2: and if I may say so, uneducated and ignorant.

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Speaker 3: That's a question that's not an excellent a double excellent

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Speaker 3: question if this term exists in English at all. But

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Speaker 3: I would say that that's a question that the societies

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Speaker 3: and mainly the media has to answer how is this possible?

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Speaker 3: And for me, it's an enigma. I can tell you

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Speaker 3: that I don't know the answer to it, but I

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Speaker 3: know that I see some of the outcomes of this

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Speaker 3: are very horrificing my view. The rise of anti Semitism,

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Speaker 3: for example, in some places is horrible. This ancient beast

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Speaker 3: came back to haunt us, and the thing, the fact

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Speaker 3: that you have mentioned is one of the reasons to this,

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Speaker 3: to this, to this very sad thing to happen. What

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Speaker 3: is the reason for this? I think every society has

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Speaker 3: to ask its own questions internally, like we're doing as well,

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Speaker 3: and we do soul searching time and again, time and again.

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Speaker 3: I'm not trying you to, you know, to lecture anyone.

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Speaker 3: I'm just answering a question, which is a very good one,

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Speaker 3: because you have just boken played the structure story in

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Speaker 3: many countries in the world, and I yes, they saw

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Speaker 3: it in some of the places they've served in.

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Speaker 2: You know, I first came across it when I was

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Speaker 2: quite young, probably thirteen, reading comics and reading about the programs.

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Speaker 2: You see, I was a very big Robin Hood fan,

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Speaker 2: and in that era there was there were plenty of

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Speaker 2: Jewish people in England and that's how they got introduced

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Speaker 2: to me and told stories, stories in comic form that

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Speaker 2: you wouldn't find today because they were well balanced. So

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Speaker 2: it has been around for a heck of a long time.

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Speaker 2: What do you think after this event today and the

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Speaker 2: path it follows, hopefully in the near future. We'll get

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Speaker 2: to the later future in a short while, But what

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Speaker 2: do you think that the Israel haters will do now?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm afraid that there are some Israel haters and

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Speaker 3: the jew Jewish people haters that will continue whatever whatever

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Speaker 3: facts or stories or things that we will see will happen.

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Speaker 3: I am afraid that some of them are not going

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Speaker 3: to change. But I do hope, I do hope that

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Speaker 3: the big portion of the societies, especially the enlightened societies

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Speaker 3: and enlightened doesn't have to be only the Western societies.

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Speaker 3: It's people everywhere. People who open their brains, open their minds,

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Speaker 3: are ready to hear another story, are trying to think

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Speaker 3: who is contributing, who is not contributing, Whether the Jewish world,

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Speaker 3: whether Israel, whether Israel is the live abroad, who out

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Speaker 3: of them is really contributing to the world. Contributing to

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Speaker 3: other societies is and this will be the yardstick. People

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Speaker 3: will measure their reratitude towards other peoples and Israel in particular,

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Speaker 3: according to what Israel is trying to do, according to

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Speaker 3: what is Well has achieved. You know, you spoke about history.

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Speaker 3: My family came from Europe. I had part of my

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Speaker 3: family forever in Israel for hundreds of years, but the

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Speaker 3: big portion of my family, of my ancestors, came from

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Speaker 3: Europe after the Second World War, and they came after

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Speaker 3: the Holocaust, and they came to a country that was

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Speaker 3: not really very i would say advanced. And look look

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Speaker 3: at Israel today, and this is what people have to see.

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Speaker 3: When I served in Africa, in Cameroon, in Ethiopia, in Burundi,

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Speaker 3: I've served in all these countries. I've done projects in

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Speaker 3: all these countries. Countries people were amazed by the Israeli technology.

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Speaker 3: But the things that Israel brought their enabled people not

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Speaker 3: just to live better, to live, to have clean water,

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Speaker 3: to have health, to have education. This should be the

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Speaker 3: yardstick to the way they measure. There is very society

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Speaker 3: and the Jewish people. This is my view. I do

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Speaker 3: hope that this will be happening. If you ask me

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Speaker 3: you bought. Are the chances difficult?

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Speaker 2: Yes? But there is a lot of difficult about how

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Speaker 2: many practicing Jews are there in Israel any idea.

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Speaker 3: Look, we are around nine million people as a whole,

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Speaker 3: maybe ten million people as a whole. I would guess

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Speaker 3: that there is around two million. But again, practicing in

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Speaker 3: Judaism is a very difficult question, because the question is

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Speaker 3: whether you know It's like in the Christian world, do

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Speaker 3: you go every Sunday to the church or the Jews?

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Speaker 3: Do you go every Saturday to the synagogue, or do

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Speaker 3: you keep Kosher rules, or do you driving Saturday in Shabbat?

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Speaker 3: Or do you just like myself, go every now and

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Speaker 3: then to a synagogue without having a yarmulcan on your

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Speaker 3: head during the regular days, et cetera. So practicing is

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Speaker 3: a very difficult question.

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Speaker 2: Well, here is another difficult question. Maybe I've said for

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Speaker 2: a long time that if you don't have a grasp

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Speaker 2: on biblical history, then you're going to have a very

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Speaker 2: tough time understanding the present.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree. I totally agree, and I think it

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Speaker 3: is applicable not just for practicing Jews. It is applicable

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Speaker 3: for non religious or secular whatever they call themselves a Jews,

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Speaker 3: because yeah, you can read the Bible as a is

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Speaker 3: a script, as a religious script, and it is very deep,

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Speaker 3: very interesting, very important in my view. But you can

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Speaker 3: read it as a history book. And you know, you

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Speaker 3: don't even have to read the Bible for this. You

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Speaker 3: can just go to Jerusalem and touch with your hand

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Speaker 3: the whaling wall, and you touch the Old Temple, the

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Speaker 3: walls of the Old Temple from more than two thousand

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Speaker 3: years ago, and you see history in front of you.

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Speaker 3: And I totally agree. Without understanding this, it is difficult

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Speaker 3: to understand what's happening today, and it's difficult to foresee

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Speaker 3: what will happen in the future.

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Speaker 2: I spent much of today reading reading two or three books,

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Speaker 2: parts of them two in particular. The first one was

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Speaker 2: and tell me whether you read it or not, The

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Speaker 2: Son of Hames. Yeah, Massa Hassan Yusuf, Yeah you read?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What did you take from it? Let me let me

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Speaker 2: just before you do, sorry for those who don't know.

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Speaker 2: A gripping account of terror, betrayal, political intrigue, and unthinkable choices.

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Speaker 2: And the individual who wrote this book, The Son of

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Speaker 2: Hamas Mossem Hessen Yusef was the son of one of the.

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Speaker 3: Original founders leaders of Hamas.

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Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you. So so what

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Speaker 2: did you get out of it?

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Speaker 3: I got out of it exactly what I said before

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Speaker 3: when you asked me what do I expect to happen.

385
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Speaker 3: I think that this guy, this very brave son of

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Speaker 3: the Hamas leader, was raised, was educated in a certain way,

387
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Speaker 3: a way of hatred, a way of let's kill Jews,

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Speaker 3: let's massacre, and let's destroy the state of Viseral, the

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Speaker 3: Jewish state. And he saw other facts, and he saw values,

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Speaker 3: and he measured everything from that day on through who

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Speaker 3: is holding dear the values that he believed in, the life,

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Speaker 3: believing in contribution, believing in seeing positive, believing in trying

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Speaker 3: to build a positive future. And he said, thank you

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Speaker 3: very much. I saw what is the difference between these

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00:27:40,133 --> 00:27:44,133
Speaker 3: two cults. I prefer to support the cult. It is

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Speaker 3: the cult of life, the cult of contribution, the cult

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Speaker 3: of let's have good life, and not the cult of death.

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Speaker 3: So I think that he is an emblem. He is

399
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Speaker 3: the best possible example of someone who was born to

400
00:27:59,733 --> 00:28:05,213
Speaker 3: a certain way of life, which was very devastating one

401
00:28:05,773 --> 00:28:10,573
Speaker 3: and saw facts and value enjoined the other side because

402
00:28:10,573 --> 00:28:13,133
Speaker 3: he believed that those are the right values. I think

403
00:28:13,173 --> 00:28:17,973
Speaker 3: it's an unbelievable leaving example of such change.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting. I just opened the book and started reading.

405
00:28:23,013 --> 00:28:26,053
Speaker 2: I like doing that. I don't mean from the beginning,

406
00:28:26,093 --> 00:28:30,973
Speaker 2: I mean just wherever the pages fell. And the chapter

407
00:28:31,053 --> 00:28:34,213
Speaker 2: that I'm going to read tomorrow is a vision for

408
00:28:34,333 --> 00:28:38,213
Speaker 2: the Mass written in two thousand and five. I won't

409
00:28:38,213 --> 00:28:43,333
Speaker 2: even started now, but I was triggered. I had this

410
00:28:43,373 --> 00:28:46,413
Speaker 2: book on my shelf and I was triggered into pulling

411
00:28:46,453 --> 00:28:51,093
Speaker 2: it off because somebody sent me a video of him,

412
00:28:51,533 --> 00:28:59,253
Speaker 2: the author, making a commentary somewhere on a interview show

413
00:28:59,293 --> 00:29:03,453
Speaker 2: about where things were at in his head as opposed

414
00:29:03,533 --> 00:29:07,093
Speaker 2: to where things are at on the ground or have

415
00:29:07,213 --> 00:29:11,573
Speaker 2: been up to date, and it triggered me big time.

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Speaker 2: So I thought it's time to have a better look

417
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Speaker 2: at the book. The other one I was looking at.

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Speaker 2: The other one I was looking at is the Anti

419
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Speaker 2: Israel Agenda Inside the Political War of the Jewish State

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Speaker 2: on the Jewish State by Alex Rivchen, who was, if

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Speaker 2: I remember correctly, Hungarian born Jewish of course, but moved

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00:29:37,773 --> 00:29:40,973
Speaker 2: to Sydney when he was a child and has grown

423
00:29:41,413 --> 00:29:45,053
Speaker 2: very successful in the legals figure as well as well

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Speaker 2: as doing quite a bit of shall we say, commentary.

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Speaker 2: If you were going to recommend the book to anyone

426
00:29:56,053 --> 00:30:01,773
Speaker 2: who wanted to know more about the issues, the problems,

427
00:30:03,773 --> 00:30:10,133
Speaker 2: even the Hamas, the Israel scenario, who's the one that

428
00:30:10,173 --> 00:30:10,853
Speaker 2: you'd recommend?

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Speaker 3: And of all, I didn't read the second one. I

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00:30:14,733 --> 00:30:19,693
Speaker 3: didn't read Rivkin's book. But I can answer you very true, Frill.

431
00:30:19,733 --> 00:30:23,413
Speaker 3: And because of one word or one number that you've stated,

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Speaker 3: you've said that the Sons of Ramas, the chapter you're

433
00:30:28,173 --> 00:30:30,853
Speaker 3: going to read is going to speak about two thousand

434
00:30:30,893 --> 00:30:33,933
Speaker 3: and five. And I think the two thousand and five

435
00:30:34,133 --> 00:30:38,093
Speaker 3: is a very important year for everyone that wants to

436
00:30:38,173 --> 00:30:42,733
Speaker 3: understand not just what is happening now, but the whole,

437
00:30:42,973 --> 00:30:46,813
Speaker 3: As I said, the bigger thing, the thirty thousand feet

438
00:30:47,373 --> 00:30:50,493
Speaker 3: view of what's happening now in the Middle East and

439
00:30:50,573 --> 00:30:53,653
Speaker 3: what are the challenges and the prospects in the Middle East.

440
00:30:53,693 --> 00:30:56,493
Speaker 3: In two thousand and five, there was a belief, as

441
00:30:56,493 --> 00:31:00,573
Speaker 3: Shimon Peres said at the time, the late Prime Minister

442
00:31:00,693 --> 00:31:05,013
Speaker 3: and Foreign Minister of Israel said, Amask can be a

443
00:31:05,133 --> 00:31:10,213
Speaker 3: sorry Gaza can become the Singapore, the Middle East. The

444
00:31:10,373 --> 00:31:13,533
Speaker 3: notion was that if we take the prescription that the

445
00:31:13,573 --> 00:31:17,253
Speaker 3: world gave us, get out of the territories, take your settlers,

446
00:31:17,293 --> 00:31:21,573
Speaker 3: take your army, take everyone outside, just leave them alone,

447
00:31:21,733 --> 00:31:24,053
Speaker 3: and it will be rosy. The world is going to

448
00:31:24,093 --> 00:31:27,213
Speaker 3: help it. And if something bad is going to happen,

449
00:31:27,293 --> 00:31:30,293
Speaker 3: that's okay. We will deal with this. This was the

450
00:31:30,333 --> 00:31:33,093
Speaker 3: notion in two thousand and five. We all know what

451
00:31:33,253 --> 00:31:37,293
Speaker 3: happened twenty years later. There was no peace, There was

452
00:31:37,573 --> 00:31:44,333
Speaker 3: no Singapore of the Middle East. Unfortunately, death tunnels rockets

453
00:31:44,373 --> 00:31:50,213
Speaker 3: for years and years and years, and education for incitement

454
00:31:50,693 --> 00:31:53,813
Speaker 3: against the Jewish state time and again, time and again

455
00:31:53,893 --> 00:31:58,933
Speaker 3: that resulted or came too, this tragic day of the

456
00:31:59,013 --> 00:32:02,973
Speaker 3: seventh of October twenty twenty three. So when you read

457
00:32:03,013 --> 00:32:06,613
Speaker 3: the story of the Son of Hamas, you get both

458
00:32:06,653 --> 00:32:10,653
Speaker 3: the historical notion in two thousand and five and the result,

459
00:32:10,813 --> 00:32:14,093
Speaker 3: all the outcome we saw in twenty twenty three seventh

460
00:32:14,133 --> 00:32:18,693
Speaker 3: of October, And you understand the Israeli psyche of today

461
00:32:19,293 --> 00:32:22,773
Speaker 3: saying that we are going to be very cautious. We

462
00:32:22,813 --> 00:32:25,973
Speaker 3: are not going to let any organization like Ramas with

463
00:32:26,293 --> 00:32:31,813
Speaker 3: such cruelty, in such philosophy being raised again to the

464
00:32:31,933 --> 00:32:36,333
Speaker 3: level that it can attack is well. And this is

465
00:32:37,053 --> 00:32:41,173
Speaker 3: embedded in the story of the Son of Ramas in

466
00:32:41,213 --> 00:32:44,613
Speaker 3: this book. So I totally agree that this book, or

467
00:32:44,653 --> 00:32:47,573
Speaker 3: I would say that this book is a very important one,

468
00:32:48,173 --> 00:32:51,093
Speaker 3: both in showing the thirty thousand feet view of the

469
00:32:51,133 --> 00:32:54,693
Speaker 3: Middle East and secondly in the question of someone who

470
00:32:54,733 --> 00:32:58,933
Speaker 3: really saw other notes and other values and decided he

471
00:32:59,013 --> 00:33:04,253
Speaker 3: wants to join in two very fundamental important issues in

472
00:33:04,293 --> 00:33:07,013
Speaker 3: the Middle East and in the Israeli historian future.

473
00:33:08,773 --> 00:33:13,893
Speaker 2: Let's get back to back to Gaza. How many people

474
00:33:13,933 --> 00:33:16,893
Speaker 2: are there? Well, hang on, how many people were there

475
00:33:16,933 --> 00:33:17,533
Speaker 2: in Gaza?

476
00:33:18,653 --> 00:33:20,493
Speaker 3: Two million? Around two million?

477
00:33:22,173 --> 00:33:26,533
Speaker 2: Did they fit comfortably? I don't know. Did they fit

478
00:33:27,333 --> 00:33:30,173
Speaker 2: because it's not a big place. Did they fit in comfortably?

479
00:33:31,333 --> 00:33:34,133
Speaker 3: You know, there are places who are even more dense,

480
00:33:34,173 --> 00:33:37,573
Speaker 3: I think than Gaza. We spoke about Singapore, Hong Kong.

481
00:33:37,653 --> 00:33:40,253
Speaker 3: I don't know how many was the population there, but yeah,

482
00:33:40,493 --> 00:33:45,813
Speaker 3: there were some cities, there were agricultural areas or possible

483
00:33:46,453 --> 00:33:51,173
Speaker 3: land for agricultural areas, et cetera. Yes, yes, it's very dense,

484
00:33:51,253 --> 00:33:53,453
Speaker 3: but you know, Israel is dance as well. One of

485
00:33:53,493 --> 00:33:56,533
Speaker 3: the more densier countries in the world.

486
00:34:00,493 --> 00:34:05,533
Speaker 2: The ordinary folk of Gaza. If I can draw a

487
00:34:05,573 --> 00:34:11,573
Speaker 2: conclusion that there are the ordinary type of Gaza, how

488
00:34:11,573 --> 00:34:14,013
Speaker 2: would you describe their politics? How would you describe their

489
00:34:14,013 --> 00:34:17,333
Speaker 2: attitude to the environment in which they have been living

490
00:34:17,653 --> 00:34:19,693
Speaker 2: up until recently.

491
00:34:21,333 --> 00:34:22,093
Speaker 3: Before the war?

492
00:34:22,733 --> 00:34:28,053
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, how many wars were there before up until

493
00:34:28,053 --> 00:34:32,333
Speaker 2: the point when they all had to scaper get out?

494
00:34:36,053 --> 00:34:39,693
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know what is their perception. I just

495
00:34:39,813 --> 00:34:43,813
Speaker 3: know that they were given, as I said, a possibility

496
00:34:43,813 --> 00:34:50,173
Speaker 3: of creating a very peaceful and a successful entity there,

497
00:34:50,653 --> 00:34:59,253
Speaker 3: and unfortunately they chose democratically twenty years ago, an organization

498
00:34:59,653 --> 00:35:04,973
Speaker 3: that chose to take the power, take the power in

499
00:35:05,093 --> 00:35:08,213
Speaker 3: Gaza bye by force, and this is what they got.

500
00:35:09,053 --> 00:35:14,853
Speaker 3: So I think they chose it unfortunately, and then the

501
00:35:14,893 --> 00:35:20,013
Speaker 3: incitement that continued against Israel did the rest of the job.

502
00:35:22,733 --> 00:35:25,133
Speaker 2: If they if they had a free election, now this

503
00:35:25,573 --> 00:35:27,933
Speaker 2: is an unfair question, but if they had an election

504
00:35:28,133 --> 00:35:31,773
Speaker 2: now and Harmas was running, and so were one or

505
00:35:31,773 --> 00:35:37,253
Speaker 2: two other crowds, do you think that the average voter

506
00:35:37,413 --> 00:35:41,453
Speaker 2: would desert her mass or would they be spooked into

507
00:35:41,613 --> 00:35:42,533
Speaker 2: voting for it? Again?

508
00:35:44,173 --> 00:35:47,013
Speaker 3: I don't know. You know, to answer this question, you

509
00:35:47,093 --> 00:35:50,373
Speaker 3: really have to be a prophet, but I would say

510
00:35:50,453 --> 00:35:55,013
Speaker 3: something that is based on something that happened today and yesterday.

511
00:35:55,373 --> 00:35:59,653
Speaker 3: Mainly today, there were fights today in Gaza. There were

512
00:36:00,173 --> 00:36:04,893
Speaker 3: people in Gaza that were unhappyy with Hamas and took

513
00:36:04,973 --> 00:36:09,773
Speaker 3: weapons into their hands and were trying to liberate themselves

514
00:36:09,853 --> 00:36:16,973
Speaker 3: from Hamas, and Hamas sent its squads, its platoons in

515
00:36:17,173 --> 00:36:21,933
Speaker 3: order to crash this kind of trying to be different,

516
00:36:22,173 --> 00:36:25,773
Speaker 3: trying to create different environment. I'm talking about the last

517
00:36:25,893 --> 00:36:29,653
Speaker 3: forty eight or seventy two hours, and there were dozens

518
00:36:29,973 --> 00:36:34,533
Speaker 3: of casualties in these clashes. So it shows me that

519
00:36:34,653 --> 00:36:39,573
Speaker 3: there are people in Gaza that want to live differently,

520
00:36:40,253 --> 00:36:43,893
Speaker 3: that might choose another way. And I do hope, I

521
00:36:44,053 --> 00:36:47,973
Speaker 3: really hope that this is the trajectory that we will see.

522
00:36:48,013 --> 00:36:50,493
Speaker 3: But in order for this to happen, we have to

523
00:36:50,893 --> 00:36:53,773
Speaker 3: get rid of the organization that doesn't let it happen.

524
00:36:54,013 --> 00:36:58,493
Speaker 2: Haramas, Actually, let me jump a little further afield. After

525
00:36:58,533 --> 00:37:02,853
Speaker 2: what you just said. There was a time not that

526
00:37:02,933 --> 00:37:07,053
Speaker 2: long ago in Iran when they what would they call

527
00:37:07,093 --> 00:37:17,213
Speaker 2: the Green the Greens who rebelled and had had the

528
00:37:17,333 --> 00:37:23,533
Speaker 2: administration of the day in America back to them. Then things

529
00:37:24,213 --> 00:37:26,413
Speaker 2: since then may have turned out to be quite different

530
00:37:26,413 --> 00:37:28,933
Speaker 2: to what they are or what they did turn out

531
00:37:28,973 --> 00:37:32,573
Speaker 2: to be. So it was a matter of leadership, It

532
00:37:32,613 --> 00:37:37,373
Speaker 2: was a matter of courage that was missing, and that

533
00:37:37,453 --> 00:37:40,653
Speaker 2: has been rectified. It appears, at least for the moment,

534
00:37:41,213 --> 00:37:45,253
Speaker 2: in a different place in Gaza, could the same thing happen.

535
00:37:45,293 --> 00:37:48,293
Speaker 2: Do you think in Iran now?

536
00:37:50,653 --> 00:37:53,533
Speaker 3: I do hope, I do hope that we will see

537
00:37:54,053 --> 00:37:58,733
Speaker 3: a different I would say, regime altitude philosophy in Iran.

538
00:37:59,293 --> 00:38:03,213
Speaker 3: I think that Iran today is not a force for good,

539
00:38:03,853 --> 00:38:07,053
Speaker 3: not for the whole region. I think we saw time

540
00:38:07,093 --> 00:38:09,613
Speaker 3: and again, time and again, think that what we see

541
00:38:09,613 --> 00:38:16,053
Speaker 3: in the Iranian effort to infiltrate and to impose its

542
00:38:16,173 --> 00:38:23,053
Speaker 3: radical ideas and terror in the Middle East is the

543
00:38:23,093 --> 00:38:27,133
Speaker 3: most destabilizing factor that exists today. You know, Israel is

544
00:38:27,213 --> 00:38:34,693
Speaker 3: fighting proxies of Iran for many years already Chrisabella Hamas

545
00:38:34,693 --> 00:38:37,773
Speaker 3: who is now all of them attacked us, all of

546
00:38:37,813 --> 00:38:42,613
Speaker 3: them declared their intention of annihilate the state of Isel.

547
00:38:42,733 --> 00:38:45,853
Speaker 3: So I do hope that we will see you ask

548
00:38:45,933 --> 00:38:50,213
Speaker 3: me again if this is feasible, I would be. I

549
00:38:50,253 --> 00:38:53,813
Speaker 3: will come back to my previous answer and say that

550
00:38:53,853 --> 00:38:56,813
Speaker 3: I'm not a prophet, I don't know. I'm just saying

551
00:38:56,813 --> 00:39:00,573
Speaker 3: that there is no doubt that in this struggle between

552
00:39:00,613 --> 00:39:04,253
Speaker 3: those who want to advance forward towards something good in

553
00:39:04,293 --> 00:39:07,213
Speaker 3: the Middle List like the abram Accord, countries like those

554
00:39:07,213 --> 00:39:11,293
Speaker 3: countries that have good relations with Israel, have peaceful relations

555
00:39:11,333 --> 00:39:13,853
Speaker 3: with Israel. I've served for three years in such a

556
00:39:13,893 --> 00:39:20,453
Speaker 3: country in Jordan, a lot of disagreements on many issues,

557
00:39:20,573 --> 00:39:23,493
Speaker 3: and still cooperation because we understand that we have to

558
00:39:23,533 --> 00:39:27,373
Speaker 3: live together in this region and solve problems trying to

559
00:39:27,373 --> 00:39:31,373
Speaker 3: solve problems together. I hope that this notion, this direction,

560
00:39:31,493 --> 00:39:35,653
Speaker 3: this vector, will will emerge as the victor and not

561
00:39:35,733 --> 00:39:38,773
Speaker 3: the Iranian way of doing things in the Middle East.

562
00:39:38,853 --> 00:39:41,893
Speaker 2: Right now, there is an answer to this question, as

563
00:39:41,933 --> 00:39:46,213
Speaker 2: obvious I think. But well I think I know, but

564
00:39:46,693 --> 00:39:52,853
Speaker 2: people still don't understand it. Why did the surrounding Arab

565
00:39:52,893 --> 00:39:57,293
Speaker 2: countries reject, on two or three occasions at the very least,

566
00:39:58,133 --> 00:40:04,333
Speaker 2: to take gardens into their country. Why have they refused

567
00:40:04,493 --> 00:40:10,093
Speaker 2: constantly to have anything to do with immigration with as.

568
00:40:11,013 --> 00:40:13,573
Speaker 3: I think. I hope it's a polite answer, but I

569
00:40:13,573 --> 00:40:15,853
Speaker 3: think that the answer is in the embedded in the

570
00:40:15,933 --> 00:40:22,853
Speaker 3: question itself. I mean as long as the gazen I

571
00:40:22,893 --> 00:40:29,333
Speaker 3: would say, philosophy of analyzing things and doing things is

572
00:40:29,413 --> 00:40:35,013
Speaker 3: this negative notion in this incitement against anything everything. It

573
00:40:35,173 --> 00:40:38,853
Speaker 3: is this notion of let's fight instead of let's build

574
00:40:38,933 --> 00:40:42,093
Speaker 3: something together, as long as it is, by the way,

575
00:40:42,253 --> 00:40:45,773
Speaker 3: rejection of peace with Israel time and again, time and again,

576
00:40:45,813 --> 00:40:53,053
Speaker 3: they were given numerous occasions or possibilities to end the

577
00:40:53,133 --> 00:40:56,093
Speaker 3: conflict and to reach whatever they want to reach and

578
00:40:56,133 --> 00:40:58,733
Speaker 3: to give peace and security to Israel, which is what

579
00:40:58,853 --> 00:41:03,973
Speaker 3: we want. As long as they don't do it, this

580
00:41:04,093 --> 00:41:07,973
Speaker 3: is the answer, or this is the the fact that

581
00:41:08,013 --> 00:41:10,693
Speaker 3: you were stating, the Arab countries do not want to

582
00:41:10,733 --> 00:41:13,973
Speaker 3: have this kind of cooperation with them or connection with them.

583
00:41:14,173 --> 00:41:18,093
Speaker 3: It's true. That's reality. It's not I do not invent it,

584
00:41:18,173 --> 00:41:21,533
Speaker 3: and you did not invent This is a reality, and

585
00:41:21,573 --> 00:41:24,293
Speaker 3: it's very easy to understand. For the time being, as

586
00:41:24,333 --> 00:41:27,933
Speaker 3: long as they continue with this negative attitude, this is

587
00:41:27,973 --> 00:41:29,533
Speaker 3: going to be the future.

588
00:41:30,493 --> 00:41:35,813
Speaker 2: So I'm seeing faces that I'm familiar with in this

589
00:41:35,933 --> 00:41:41,613
Speaker 2: country as I speak, thinking of people who have for

590
00:41:41,653 --> 00:41:47,893
Speaker 2: whatever reason, fallen into the trap of being Israeli haters,

591
00:41:48,533 --> 00:41:56,013
Speaker 2: of being Palestinian supporters, of demonstrating constantly, and this is

592
00:41:56,053 --> 00:41:58,613
Speaker 2: only part of their act because they're into anything that's

593
00:41:58,613 --> 00:42:03,573
Speaker 2: sort of anti West. I suppose they and they have

594
00:42:03,653 --> 00:42:07,613
Speaker 2: a great time expressing it, including some politicians who are

595
00:42:07,653 --> 00:42:13,373
Speaker 2: pretty discussed. Why why is it that they have been

596
00:42:13,493 --> 00:42:18,493
Speaker 2: sucked into believing things that essentially untrue?

597
00:42:19,293 --> 00:42:22,853
Speaker 3: You know, I'm a diplomat, I'm an ambassador, I'm a

598
00:42:22,893 --> 00:42:26,413
Speaker 3: guest in this country. Again, beautiful in calm country.

599
00:42:26,653 --> 00:42:28,773
Speaker 2: Okay, so talk about Australia.

600
00:42:31,773 --> 00:42:34,693
Speaker 3: I will just say that I would have asked myself,

601
00:42:34,733 --> 00:42:37,893
Speaker 3: and again I'm talking about myself. Yeah, I would have

602
00:42:37,973 --> 00:42:41,213
Speaker 3: asked myself, how is it possible that all the aid

603
00:42:41,373 --> 00:42:45,653
Speaker 3: I gave, the millions, the billions I gave for years

604
00:42:45,733 --> 00:42:51,173
Speaker 3: and years, for decades to the Palestinians, to un organizations

605
00:42:51,173 --> 00:42:55,893
Speaker 3: that should have taken the Palestinians out of this kind

606
00:42:55,933 --> 00:43:00,373
Speaker 3: of negative way, all this money, all these resources, all

607
00:43:00,413 --> 00:43:04,973
Speaker 3: these taxpayers' money that was sent there by UNRAH and

608
00:43:05,013 --> 00:43:10,453
Speaker 3: by other organizations, didn't achieve anything and brought us in

609
00:43:10,493 --> 00:43:14,853
Speaker 3: the end to the seventh of October. Because, for example,

610
00:43:15,333 --> 00:43:18,933
Speaker 3: the canals and the rockets that Hamas built were built

611
00:43:18,973 --> 00:43:22,453
Speaker 3: with some cash, some money that was given, not schools,

612
00:43:22,693 --> 00:43:28,653
Speaker 3: not hospitals, and unfortunately this money, part of this money

613
00:43:29,053 --> 00:43:34,053
Speaker 3: was given by good intentions of people, of individuals, and

614
00:43:34,093 --> 00:43:37,413
Speaker 3: of governments. And I would have asked myself, why am

615
00:43:37,453 --> 00:43:38,293
Speaker 3: I part of this?

616
00:43:39,253 --> 00:43:39,413
Speaker 5: Now?

617
00:43:39,613 --> 00:43:42,333
Speaker 3: The answer to it, I don't know. Each country and

618
00:43:43,293 --> 00:43:46,693
Speaker 3: each organization should ask itself the same question. I think,

619
00:43:47,133 --> 00:43:50,173
Speaker 3: how did we reach that this is happening with the

620
00:43:50,293 --> 00:43:53,773
Speaker 3: huge amounts of money that I've dedicated to this task.

621
00:43:55,773 --> 00:44:00,973
Speaker 2: He is a very very short quote her messa genocidal phonetics,

622
00:44:01,013 --> 00:44:05,453
Speaker 2: with whom any negotiation is a fool's errand the victory

623
00:44:05,533 --> 00:44:08,213
Speaker 2: is down to both Trump and Yahoo. You don't have

624
00:44:08,373 --> 00:44:11,253
Speaker 2: to approve of either of these men. You can be

625
00:44:11,333 --> 00:44:15,573
Speaker 2: appalled by many things Trump does. You can hold Netunyaho

626
00:44:15,693 --> 00:44:19,533
Speaker 2: are ultimately responsible for the flawed strategy that allowed October

627
00:44:19,573 --> 00:44:25,533
Speaker 2: seven to occur. But this achievement is theirs, and it's fascinating.

628
00:44:25,573 --> 00:44:30,813
Speaker 2: I'm told that even Hillary Clinton today said that well

629
00:44:31,173 --> 00:44:37,413
Speaker 2: had some words of shall we say praise for Donald Trump?

630
00:44:37,853 --> 00:44:40,893
Speaker 2: And then you had the leader of the opposition from

631
00:44:40,933 --> 00:44:46,973
Speaker 2: Venezuela who won the Peace Prize, who also today or

632
00:44:46,973 --> 00:44:48,933
Speaker 2: in the last twenty four hours or so, has said

633
00:44:50,173 --> 00:44:51,093
Speaker 2: he deserved it.

634
00:44:53,333 --> 00:44:55,053
Speaker 3: Well, exactly.

635
00:44:56,253 --> 00:45:04,253
Speaker 2: So the future depends greatly on the leadership and the positivity,

636
00:45:05,093 --> 00:45:09,573
Speaker 2: not just the money that gets poured into Gaza to

637
00:45:09,653 --> 00:45:12,773
Speaker 2: rebuild it. I have no idea how father, I'll go

638
00:45:12,893 --> 00:45:16,813
Speaker 2: with that rebuilding before it stopped, because I can't help.

639
00:45:16,893 --> 00:45:19,413
Speaker 2: I can't help but feel that that's such a massive

640
00:45:19,533 --> 00:45:23,653
Speaker 2: job that something will come along and interfere with it

641
00:45:23,733 --> 00:45:26,973
Speaker 2: somewhere along along the way. What say you.

642
00:45:29,733 --> 00:45:33,813
Speaker 3: So far? I totally agree with the notion that something

643
00:45:34,293 --> 00:45:38,133
Speaker 3: very big was done in front of our eyes. There

644
00:45:38,173 --> 00:45:41,973
Speaker 3: is no doubt. Look, we saw the hostages coming back.

645
00:45:42,053 --> 00:45:45,853
Speaker 3: Now we have prospects for something that is good. Let's

646
00:45:45,893 --> 00:45:50,853
Speaker 3: assume that we have the best case scenario happening in

647
00:45:50,893 --> 00:45:55,213
Speaker 3: the next few hours and days and weeks. I think

648
00:45:55,293 --> 00:45:58,893
Speaker 3: this was done, yes, by the President of the United States,

649
00:45:58,973 --> 00:46:04,853
Speaker 3: by again his employees, by Prime Minister Natanyao, that was

650
00:46:04,893 --> 00:46:09,813
Speaker 3: going against very strong opposition in many places. And I

651
00:46:09,853 --> 00:46:14,973
Speaker 3: think that for this, all of us, irrespective of what

652
00:46:15,133 --> 00:46:19,173
Speaker 3: we think personally, is human beings. I think that this

653
00:46:19,853 --> 00:46:26,973
Speaker 3: is an unbelievable achievement. So I totally agree with the

654
00:46:27,093 --> 00:46:30,893
Speaker 3: first I would say quotes that you have just quoted.

655
00:46:33,093 --> 00:46:36,253
Speaker 3: As I said, I don't know what will happen. I

656
00:46:36,413 --> 00:46:41,493
Speaker 3: just know that I wish you you you know, how

657
00:46:42,013 --> 00:46:44,573
Speaker 3: are they going to build Gaza. It's not just what

658
00:46:44,773 --> 00:46:47,773
Speaker 3: building they are going to build, whether they're going to

659
00:46:47,813 --> 00:46:55,533
Speaker 3: build it nicely, beautiful neighborhoods, wonderful schools, buildings. The question

660
00:46:55,693 --> 00:46:57,933
Speaker 3: is what are they going what is going to be

661
00:46:58,093 --> 00:47:02,013
Speaker 3: the perception of what they're going to believe in to

662
00:47:02,213 --> 00:47:05,453
Speaker 3: teach the children, et cetera. And again, if it's going

663
00:47:05,493 --> 00:47:08,693
Speaker 3: to continue to be this cult of death, that's cult,

664
00:47:09,133 --> 00:47:13,453
Speaker 3: then we are coming to to to We're just doing

665
00:47:13,493 --> 00:47:18,893
Speaker 3: a circle back to step them of one. I do

666
00:47:19,013 --> 00:47:22,773
Speaker 3: hope that something will change in the perceptions. I do

667
00:47:22,853 --> 00:47:27,253
Speaker 3: hope that once Harmas is being sent out of Gaza,

668
00:47:27,493 --> 00:47:31,653
Speaker 3: once Gaza is demilitarized, once the people that are really

669
00:47:31,733 --> 00:47:35,453
Speaker 3: thinking about benefiting their own population, their own children, the

670
00:47:35,533 --> 00:47:39,573
Speaker 3: next generation. I'm a father, I'm a grandfather. I look

671
00:47:39,613 --> 00:47:43,253
Speaker 3: on my next generation today. I don't think of myself anymore.

672
00:47:43,293 --> 00:47:46,573
Speaker 3: I think, how do I make small step forward in

673
00:47:46,653 --> 00:47:49,773
Speaker 3: order to make my grandchildren live in a better world,

674
00:47:49,813 --> 00:47:52,893
Speaker 3: in a better as well, in a better If this will,

675
00:47:52,973 --> 00:47:56,333
Speaker 3: notion will be prevailing both in Gaza and in the

676
00:47:56,373 --> 00:47:59,813
Speaker 3: Palestinian authority. We have a chance. So it's not just

677
00:47:59,893 --> 00:48:04,733
Speaker 3: a question of money and what buildings. It depends on

678
00:48:04,933 --> 00:48:07,533
Speaker 3: what are you going to teach in the schourse, what

679
00:48:07,573 --> 00:48:11,453
Speaker 3: are you going to teaching the in the streets, and

680
00:48:11,573 --> 00:48:15,373
Speaker 3: what are going to be your words before you will

681
00:48:15,373 --> 00:48:20,253
Speaker 3: ask people to put the your ticket in the ballots.

682
00:48:20,853 --> 00:48:23,613
Speaker 3: These are the important things that I do hope will

683
00:48:23,733 --> 00:48:26,533
Speaker 3: change and will might bring us to a better future.

684
00:48:26,853 --> 00:48:33,613
Speaker 2: Everybody will be looking seriously and well focused on the

685
00:48:33,933 --> 00:48:36,373
Speaker 2: When I say everybody, I mean far more people than

686
00:48:36,493 --> 00:48:40,213
Speaker 2: have done in the past, on the situation as it unfolds,

687
00:48:40,653 --> 00:48:46,093
Speaker 2: as it develops, and I guess, apart from those hard

688
00:48:46,133 --> 00:48:49,733
Speaker 2: heads that we discussed earlier, everyone will be hoping that

689
00:48:49,173 --> 00:48:52,333
Speaker 2: it that it goes well. Does it mean do you

690
00:48:52,413 --> 00:48:58,733
Speaker 2: think that not a mess but the teachings of killing

691
00:48:58,773 --> 00:49:01,733
Speaker 2: people that the kids, the little kids have have been

692
00:49:02,093 --> 00:49:05,373
Speaker 2: dealt over the over the over the years, and we've

693
00:49:05,413 --> 00:49:07,733
Speaker 2: all seen the videos of them with their with their

694
00:49:07,773 --> 00:49:11,173
Speaker 2: guns and bullet belts and things and playing games and

695
00:49:11,173 --> 00:49:14,053
Speaker 2: what have you. But very seriously, do you think it

696
00:49:14,093 --> 00:49:19,533
Speaker 2: will be relatively simple for them to eliminate that? In

697
00:49:19,573 --> 00:49:21,693
Speaker 2: other words, you just mentioned parents who want their kids

698
00:49:21,693 --> 00:49:24,093
Speaker 2: to go to good schools or just get an education

699
00:49:24,173 --> 00:49:28,373
Speaker 2: would be a start, uh and to and to learn

700
00:49:28,453 --> 00:49:34,333
Speaker 2: more about life outside what they've been living in so far,

701
00:49:35,613 --> 00:49:37,133
Speaker 2: do you think that do you think that that is

702
00:49:37,133 --> 00:49:39,373
Speaker 2: possible in the next ten years.

703
00:49:40,493 --> 00:49:46,293
Speaker 3: The short answer is a cautious yes, a very cautious yes.

704
00:49:47,733 --> 00:49:50,493
Speaker 3: And I will say why. I think that hope You

705
00:49:50,693 --> 00:49:54,853
Speaker 3: use the word hope. Hope is very important. I'm an

706
00:49:54,893 --> 00:49:58,453
Speaker 3: optimistic guy in the end. In all my forty years

707
00:49:58,653 --> 00:50:02,853
Speaker 3: the diplomatic Corps, I was optimistic. And this is this

708
00:50:02,973 --> 00:50:05,333
Speaker 3: is the way you achieve things. This is the way

709
00:50:05,373 --> 00:50:08,173
Speaker 3: you achieve agreements that you didn't believe you can. It's

710
00:50:08,173 --> 00:50:10,973
Speaker 3: a trad et cetera. But on the same time, I'm

711
00:50:11,013 --> 00:50:15,653
Speaker 3: a huge believer in deeds, and I think that what

712
00:50:15,733 --> 00:50:21,213
Speaker 3: we see now, for example, is a real effort to

713
00:50:21,373 --> 00:50:24,853
Speaker 3: get read, to have to have to do deeds, to

714
00:50:24,973 --> 00:50:29,533
Speaker 3: get rid of terrorists, to get rid of the bad guys,

715
00:50:29,573 --> 00:50:32,653
Speaker 3: in order to put to open the door to exactly

716
00:50:32,693 --> 00:50:35,573
Speaker 3: what you've just said here, to try and to see

717
00:50:35,613 --> 00:50:39,093
Speaker 3: whether in the next ten years we can do what

718
00:50:39,333 --> 00:50:43,573
Speaker 3: we ISRAELI is hope that will be done. A change

719
00:50:43,573 --> 00:50:47,413
Speaker 3: of the trajectory a change of the vector, moving aside

720
00:50:48,173 --> 00:50:51,733
Speaker 3: forty five degrees or even one hundred and eighty degrees,

721
00:50:52,133 --> 00:50:55,533
Speaker 3: in order to enable the kids not just to go

722
00:50:55,613 --> 00:50:58,253
Speaker 3: to school to have good education, but not to have

723
00:50:58,413 --> 00:51:03,413
Speaker 3: their books that are teaching incitement against Jews. How many

724
00:51:03,493 --> 00:51:05,973
Speaker 3: Jews would you kill? If you will kill three Jews

725
00:51:06,013 --> 00:51:09,773
Speaker 3: today and force yous tomorrow is incitement. If this is

726
00:51:09,813 --> 00:51:12,773
Speaker 3: the you will know that it's seven, but it's seven

727
00:51:12,853 --> 00:51:18,573
Speaker 3: killed that Jews. So if the schools will begin to change,

728
00:51:18,653 --> 00:51:21,653
Speaker 3: and as I said, if the perception will change, we

729
00:51:21,733 --> 00:51:24,013
Speaker 3: have a chance that in the next ten years we

730
00:51:24,053 --> 00:51:29,333
Speaker 3: will see significant change, as you have alluded to. If

731
00:51:29,733 --> 00:51:33,493
Speaker 3: we will not do deeds, we will just hope and

732
00:51:33,533 --> 00:51:37,213
Speaker 3: we will let the bad guys stay there and continue

733
00:51:37,293 --> 00:51:41,773
Speaker 3: what they did until today. Pay for sleigh, you know,

734
00:51:41,973 --> 00:51:44,893
Speaker 3: we pay you because you kill Jews and we teach

735
00:51:45,053 --> 00:51:49,213
Speaker 3: incitement in our school books, paid by good countries that

736
00:51:49,333 --> 00:51:52,613
Speaker 3: really have good intentions. Then we will go nowhere. We

737
00:51:52,653 --> 00:51:54,933
Speaker 3: will stay in the same place where we are today,

738
00:51:55,213 --> 00:51:56,813
Speaker 3: which is not a very good one.

739
00:51:58,253 --> 00:52:00,813
Speaker 2: What do you think is the next place on the

740
00:52:00,853 --> 00:52:04,013
Speaker 2: planet that deserves a similar attention?

741
00:52:06,053 --> 00:52:10,493
Speaker 3: Oh I said. I served in Africa, for example, and now,

742
00:52:10,533 --> 00:52:13,373
Speaker 3: I don't want to speak for the African countries. It's

743
00:52:13,413 --> 00:52:17,773
Speaker 3: not for me. But I'm speaking really from the depths

744
00:52:17,813 --> 00:52:20,373
Speaker 3: of my heart. You know. I served there. It was

745
00:52:20,453 --> 00:52:24,413
Speaker 3: my first love in the diplomatic service in Cameroon, and

746
00:52:24,453 --> 00:52:27,813
Speaker 3: as I said, I served afterwards. I visited many times,

747
00:52:27,853 --> 00:52:30,813
Speaker 3: and I did projects in other countries in Africa. And

748
00:52:30,893 --> 00:52:33,573
Speaker 3: I think that there is so much Africa is just

749
00:52:33,573 --> 00:52:36,573
Speaker 3: a symbol for me. It's not the continent itself or

750
00:52:36,573 --> 00:52:39,973
Speaker 3: the people or the I think they're doing tremendous job

751
00:52:40,093 --> 00:52:43,293
Speaker 3: to get up and to change. But there are so

752
00:52:43,413 --> 00:52:47,453
Speaker 3: many things that are happening in the world. Wars over tea,

753
00:52:48,893 --> 00:52:53,453
Speaker 3: trials by good people, to take whole societies up. And

754
00:52:53,493 --> 00:52:59,173
Speaker 3: I think that instead of talking the whole time about

755
00:52:59,373 --> 00:53:02,653
Speaker 3: this small democracy in the Middle East and trying to

756
00:53:02,693 --> 00:53:06,173
Speaker 3: portray as the worst is the villain of the neighborhood,

757
00:53:06,973 --> 00:53:09,733
Speaker 3: but to take all this energy, to take most of

758
00:53:09,773 --> 00:53:14,213
Speaker 3: this money and to try to do good elsewhere, not

759
00:53:14,453 --> 00:53:18,053
Speaker 3: just with people who have death cults. I think this

760
00:53:18,093 --> 00:53:21,973
Speaker 3: will bring the world to a much better place. By

761
00:53:22,013 --> 00:53:25,493
Speaker 3: the way Israel is doing this. Even during the war,

762
00:53:25,773 --> 00:53:30,533
Speaker 3: we continued to have our aid programs everywhere. We continue

763
00:53:30,533 --> 00:53:34,893
Speaker 3: to send hundreds of trainees to Israel to study what

764
00:53:35,053 --> 00:53:39,093
Speaker 3: we excel in, which is agriculture and water and cyber

765
00:53:39,813 --> 00:53:44,653
Speaker 3: and other things, innovation and high tech. And we do

766
00:53:44,733 --> 00:53:47,173
Speaker 3: it because we really believe in it. In the midst

767
00:53:47,213 --> 00:53:52,653
Speaker 3: of this horrible war that we didn't start, we continue

768
00:53:52,653 --> 00:53:55,773
Speaker 3: this because this is exactly an answer to your question.

769
00:53:55,853 --> 00:53:58,773
Speaker 3: This is exactly what we believe should be done elsewhere

770
00:53:58,813 --> 00:54:01,813
Speaker 3: in the world, and the Middle East needs attention, there

771
00:54:01,893 --> 00:54:05,093
Speaker 3: is no doubt. But not the bad guys in the Middleists.

772
00:54:05,133 --> 00:54:10,213
Speaker 3: They have to be thrown out. And yeah, all the resources,

773
00:54:10,253 --> 00:54:13,333
Speaker 3: so most of the resources would be going elsewhere.

774
00:54:14,573 --> 00:54:17,613
Speaker 2: I'll make this the last question, although there's plenty more.

775
00:54:18,373 --> 00:54:20,413
Speaker 2: Do you think that George Soros is having a good

776
00:54:20,493 --> 00:54:23,093
Speaker 2: day to day?

777
00:54:25,133 --> 00:54:28,893
Speaker 4: You know, George Soros is a Hungarian Jew and my

778
00:54:29,173 --> 00:54:34,213
Speaker 4: origin is Hungarian, so I can say only I wish

779
00:54:34,213 --> 00:54:37,973
Speaker 4: to talk to everyone on this planet.

780
00:54:38,213 --> 00:54:42,173
Speaker 2: How how long do you have in your time here?

781
00:54:43,933 --> 00:54:46,893
Speaker 3: I have two more years. I came for three years,

782
00:54:47,053 --> 00:54:52,493
Speaker 3: I've almost done a whole year, and so I have

783
00:54:52,573 --> 00:54:54,413
Speaker 3: two I have two years and two months.

784
00:54:54,493 --> 00:54:57,493
Speaker 2: Do you do Do you do many speaking engagements?

785
00:54:58,493 --> 00:55:01,173
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm trying to do as many as possible. I'm

786
00:55:01,213 --> 00:55:05,733
Speaker 3: going all around the country. I'm speaking to people, to congregations,

787
00:55:05,893 --> 00:55:10,573
Speaker 3: to everyone, and it wants to here to talk to

788
00:55:10,693 --> 00:55:13,173
Speaker 3: put things on the table, even to disagree with the

789
00:55:13,253 --> 00:55:17,933
Speaker 3: Israeli ambassador is more than invited to talk to me.

790
00:55:17,973 --> 00:55:21,693
Speaker 2: Always, Ambassador Rath. It's been a great pleasure talking with you.

791
00:55:21,773 --> 00:55:25,373
Speaker 2: Thank you, and I would encourage you to talk to

792
00:55:25,613 --> 00:55:29,253
Speaker 2: as many people as possible. You're a very good speaker,

793
00:55:29,653 --> 00:55:34,973
Speaker 2: you're a good man, and you're an honest man. Oh,

794
00:55:35,013 --> 00:55:37,173
Speaker 2: all of these things, all of these things I have

795
00:55:37,253 --> 00:55:41,093
Speaker 2: assumed in the last fifteen minutes, aside that we've been talking.

796
00:55:42,573 --> 00:55:46,853
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Layton. Wonderful questions and I enjoyed

797
00:55:47,013 --> 00:55:49,293
Speaker 3: very much, and I do hope to talk to you

798
00:55:49,333 --> 00:55:51,133
Speaker 3: in the future on other issues as well.

799
00:55:51,773 --> 00:55:52,413
Speaker 2: Be my guest.

800
00:55:52,933 --> 00:56:01,733
Speaker 3: Thank you.

801
00:56:01,853 --> 00:56:06,293
Speaker 2: Leverix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality.

802
00:56:06,493 --> 00:56:10,373
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803
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804
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Speaker 2: decongestent action. It's fast acting for fast relief, and it

805
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806
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Speaker 2: four hours. Lebrix is a tiny tablet that unblocks the nose,

807
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Speaker 2: deals with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing. Lebrix is an

808
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Speaker 2: antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality. So next

809
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Speaker 2: time you're in need of an effective antihistamine, call into

810
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Speaker 2: the pharmacy and ask for Leverrix l e v Rix

811
00:56:44,293 --> 00:56:47,973
Speaker 2: Levrix and always read the label. Takes directed and if

812
00:56:48,013 --> 00:57:07,493
Speaker 2: symptoms persist, see your health professional. Farmer Broker Auckland. George

813
00:57:07,533 --> 00:57:10,853
Speaker 2: Readman is the check i'min and founder of Geopolitical Futures,

814
00:57:10,933 --> 00:57:14,493
Speaker 2: so prior to that, of course, he established stratfor almost

815
00:57:14,573 --> 00:57:18,773
Speaker 2: thirty years ago, back in ninety six, and it's been

816
00:57:19,173 --> 00:57:21,813
Speaker 2: a very interesting period. Very good to have you back

817
00:57:21,853 --> 00:57:26,413
Speaker 2: on the podcast. Under the circumstances especially, let me invite

818
00:57:26,413 --> 00:57:30,653
Speaker 2: you to set up here a little background as to

819
00:57:31,053 --> 00:57:33,973
Speaker 2: how we got to where things happened yesterday.

820
00:57:35,373 --> 00:57:36,893
Speaker 6: Well, all this had to do with the fact that

821
00:57:36,973 --> 00:57:42,373
Speaker 6: Palestine was a province of Turkey during World War One,

822
00:57:42,493 --> 00:57:46,013
Speaker 6: Britain and Turkey were at war with each other. The

823
00:57:46,053 --> 00:57:50,333
Speaker 6: British Foreign Minister Balfour made a declaration that he supports

824
00:57:50,413 --> 00:57:55,653
Speaker 6: a Jewish homeland in Palestine. He said that to both

825
00:57:56,373 --> 00:58:00,293
Speaker 6: padic sort of the Turks, and also to create a

826
00:58:00,373 --> 00:58:03,053
Speaker 6: division inside of Germany that had at the First World

827
00:58:03,133 --> 00:58:05,893
Speaker 6: War a lot of Jews living there, hoping that would help.

828
00:58:06,453 --> 00:58:09,733
Speaker 6: He then walked away and forgot about it. After World

829
00:58:09,813 --> 00:58:14,213
Speaker 6: War Two and the sympathy for the Jews, the Balfour

830
00:58:14,293 --> 00:58:19,053
Speaker 6: Decoration was announced. The United Nations voted Israel into existence,

831
00:58:19,773 --> 00:58:23,373
Speaker 6: but never bothered to be present to make it happen,

832
00:58:23,973 --> 00:58:28,053
Speaker 6: so basically left the Jews and the Muslims to work

833
00:58:28,093 --> 00:58:31,853
Speaker 6: this out. A Typically the United Nations move that all

834
00:58:31,893 --> 00:58:35,453
Speaker 6: the good wishes and no intent to get involved, which.

835
00:58:35,253 --> 00:58:36,733
Speaker 2: Is what's been going on ever since.

836
00:58:37,573 --> 00:58:43,173
Speaker 6: Yeah, Israel is a desperately vulnerable country. At its widest point,

837
00:58:43,573 --> 00:58:47,533
Speaker 6: it's eighty miles deep. At its narrowest point, or Ahmas attacked,

838
00:58:48,293 --> 00:58:54,333
Speaker 6: it's nine miles deep. Any attack that works can destroy Israel.

839
00:58:54,533 --> 00:58:58,573
Speaker 6: So Israel is a very aggressive country. The Palestinians, however,

840
00:58:58,693 --> 00:59:05,253
Speaker 6: were completely betrayed because no one made any conditions, any possibilities.

841
00:59:05,693 --> 00:59:09,493
Speaker 6: They were just simply driven out of Israel on the

842
00:59:09,533 --> 00:59:13,133
Speaker 6: borders that UN created, and then the Jordanians came in

843
00:59:13,293 --> 00:59:16,893
Speaker 6: and took over the West Bank what was supposed to

844
00:59:16,893 --> 00:59:19,173
Speaker 6: be Palestine, and they never had a nation.

845
00:59:19,893 --> 00:59:22,293
Speaker 3: So you have.

846
00:59:21,733 --> 00:59:28,373
Speaker 6: Betrayed people, profoundly betrayed the Palestinians and a desperately afraid people,

847
00:59:28,653 --> 00:59:33,733
Speaker 6: the Israelis that are subplementing their fears with being very aggressive.

848
00:59:34,893 --> 00:59:37,813
Speaker 6: And so this was just another episode in the story.

849
00:59:38,573 --> 00:59:41,733
Speaker 2: You mentioned Jordan, and I have a question about Jordan.

850
00:59:42,253 --> 00:59:45,693
Speaker 2: We hear very little of it, certainly not involved in

851
00:59:45,813 --> 00:59:49,613
Speaker 2: any in any wars or battles at all of recent times.

852
00:59:50,373 --> 00:59:53,093
Speaker 2: How do they how do they avoid all this? I mean,

853
00:59:53,133 --> 00:59:56,853
Speaker 2: their proximity is obviously rather close.

854
00:59:57,813 --> 01:00:00,973
Speaker 6: Yes, On the other hand, they're very careful not to

855
01:00:01,013 --> 01:00:07,133
Speaker 6: allow major forces of the Palestinians of their groups into Jordan.

856
01:00:07,733 --> 01:00:10,253
Speaker 6: They generally do what they have to do to keep

857
01:00:10,253 --> 01:00:13,533
Speaker 6: them out, whereas other nations like Lebanon can't and don't.

858
01:00:14,373 --> 01:00:16,533
Speaker 6: So they're very careful not to be drawn into this,

859
01:00:17,093 --> 01:00:20,893
Speaker 6: and to a great extent a corporate Israel. The problem

860
01:00:20,933 --> 01:00:23,933
Speaker 6: is that, in various ways that nobody remembers, they were

861
01:00:23,973 --> 01:00:26,973
Speaker 6: the runs responsible for their not being a Palestinian state,

862
01:00:27,653 --> 01:00:30,373
Speaker 6: because at that time, back in nineteen forty eight, they

863
01:00:30,373 --> 01:00:35,093
Speaker 6: evaded Some of this justifies anything that's happening now, but

864
01:00:35,253 --> 01:00:39,413
Speaker 6: explains that the United Nations created a situation which it

865
01:00:39,453 --> 01:00:43,613
Speaker 6: took no responsibility for and was obvious to anyone looking

866
01:00:43,653 --> 01:00:44,893
Speaker 6: at it couldn't work.

867
01:00:45,453 --> 01:00:48,493
Speaker 2: And I have to ask a side by a question

868
01:00:48,573 --> 01:00:52,493
Speaker 2: on that. There's been plenty of move for America to

869
01:00:52,533 --> 01:00:56,693
Speaker 2: withdraw from the UN, not just America, other countries have

870
01:00:57,133 --> 01:00:59,453
Speaker 2: considered it's in the past two and quite frankly, I

871
01:00:59,493 --> 01:01:03,013
Speaker 2: think it'll be a damn good idea. What say you?

872
01:01:03,133 --> 01:01:05,773
Speaker 6: Well, it gives a chance for losers and presidential elections

873
01:01:05,773 --> 01:01:09,613
Speaker 6: to get a job going to the UN. And on

874
01:01:09,733 --> 01:01:12,213
Speaker 6: the whole it's a harmless organization because no one takes

875
01:01:12,213 --> 01:01:15,533
Speaker 6: it seriously. The idea that it was going to manage

876
01:01:15,613 --> 01:01:19,093
Speaker 6: the world in some way is long dead. It's now

877
01:01:19,133 --> 01:01:22,573
Speaker 6: a place you send failed politicians to be happy.

878
01:01:23,293 --> 01:01:27,733
Speaker 2: It's a rather expensive exercise, though, isn't it funding it

879
01:01:27,453 --> 01:01:29,813
Speaker 2: if nobody if nobody cares about it.

880
01:01:30,373 --> 01:01:35,373
Speaker 6: A lot of apartments are let in Manhattan in New York. Uh,

881
01:01:35,653 --> 01:01:37,733
Speaker 6: these ambassadors, they pay a lot of money, They are

882
01:01:37,733 --> 01:01:38,573
Speaker 6: on government time.

883
01:01:39,133 --> 01:01:42,693
Speaker 2: It's an argument that that I can't argue with. So

884
01:01:43,493 --> 01:01:47,213
Speaker 2: prior to yesterday, the events took place, as best as

885
01:01:47,293 --> 01:01:52,093
Speaker 2: I'm aware, over a period of about a week or

886
01:01:52,173 --> 01:01:54,813
Speaker 2: was that just the public face of it. Either way,

887
01:01:55,293 --> 01:01:58,533
Speaker 2: this is something that came together, something was inspired, It

888
01:01:58,573 --> 01:02:02,373
Speaker 2: came together with virtually everybody behind it. Virtually.

889
01:02:02,733 --> 01:02:09,573
Speaker 6: How come, well, for one thing, Trump hit Iran. He

890
01:02:09,653 --> 01:02:14,293
Speaker 6: hit Iran hard, not because he was necessarily pro Israeli,

891
01:02:14,373 --> 01:02:16,933
Speaker 6: because he didn't won nine to eleven. He was afraid

892
01:02:16,973 --> 01:02:19,893
Speaker 6: of a nuclear weapon being sailed into New York Harbor.

893
01:02:20,453 --> 01:02:21,213
Speaker 3: That was his reason.

894
01:02:22,293 --> 01:02:24,613
Speaker 6: But when he showed that he was willing to do this,

895
01:02:25,773 --> 01:02:28,973
Speaker 6: all of the Islamic countries started thinking about the whole situation.

896
01:02:29,573 --> 01:02:33,613
Speaker 6: Gutter in particular, but so many other countries. They were

897
01:02:33,653 --> 01:02:35,933
Speaker 6: thinking the United States was playing a major role in

898
01:02:35,973 --> 01:02:38,653
Speaker 6: the area. They did not want to tick them off,

899
01:02:39,173 --> 01:02:42,453
Speaker 6: and they started collaborating. That was really the moment that

900
01:02:42,573 --> 01:02:45,813
Speaker 6: this started. And then it became a question of would

901
01:02:45,813 --> 01:02:50,733
Speaker 6: Hamas get in well. The attack on Gaza was designed

902
01:02:51,213 --> 01:02:57,333
Speaker 6: brutally to destroy Hamas. It effectively did that. No Arab

903
01:02:57,413 --> 01:03:01,133
Speaker 6: countries that came to their aid now that Hamas was crippled,

904
01:03:01,933 --> 01:03:05,053
Speaker 6: and that was filed up an attack on the headquarters

905
01:03:05,093 --> 01:03:11,053
Speaker 6: in Gutter when they killed the leadership. After that, basically

906
01:03:11,173 --> 01:03:15,533
Speaker 6: it became possible, like any good negotiation, it's good to

907
01:03:15,573 --> 01:03:18,773
Speaker 6: carry a baseball bat in with you and use it.

908
01:03:19,773 --> 01:03:25,013
Speaker 2: Your suggestion that, if I've got it correct, is that

909
01:03:25,133 --> 01:03:29,253
Speaker 2: Hamas was set up in this On this occasion.

910
01:03:30,213 --> 01:03:34,053
Speaker 6: Hamas was trapped. It never expected to be successful, or

911
01:03:34,053 --> 01:03:37,133
Speaker 6: it wasn't the attack. It never expected the kind of

912
01:03:37,173 --> 01:03:40,813
Speaker 6: response Israel gave. But they attacked at the point where

913
01:03:40,893 --> 01:03:45,613
Speaker 6: Israel was nine pounds nine miles wide. They misunderstood the

914
01:03:45,653 --> 01:03:48,853
Speaker 6: degree to which ISRAELI to do it. They then fought

915
01:03:48,853 --> 01:03:52,453
Speaker 6: in the war that they thought would have the Arab

916
01:03:52,493 --> 01:03:57,133
Speaker 6: countries mobilized around them. The Arab countries kept their distance.

917
01:03:57,613 --> 01:03:59,613
Speaker 6: They did know how to stop the war. Israel didn't

918
01:03:59,653 --> 01:04:01,813
Speaker 6: want to stop the war and have a story.

919
01:04:02,813 --> 01:04:07,293
Speaker 2: How much did the Abraham Accords have to do was

920
01:04:07,573 --> 01:04:10,333
Speaker 2: the attitude taken by the other Arab countries.

921
01:04:11,293 --> 01:04:15,493
Speaker 6: Well, the other Arab countries have much greater interests in

922
01:04:15,533 --> 01:04:19,573
Speaker 6: the world than the Palestinians, and they've always shown that

923
01:04:20,693 --> 01:04:25,933
Speaker 6: what it emerged was the possibility of an Arab world wealthy,

924
01:04:26,253 --> 01:04:31,333
Speaker 6: particularly in the Dulf States, wealthy in Saudi Arabia, isolating

925
01:04:31,413 --> 01:04:36,173
Speaker 6: and destroying Iran, with the United States supporting it. The

926
01:04:36,173 --> 01:04:41,293
Speaker 6: Abram Accords was basically saying, look, we know Saudi Arabia

927
01:04:41,333 --> 01:04:44,173
Speaker 6: has close relationship with Israel. They do a lot of

928
01:04:44,493 --> 01:04:47,653
Speaker 6: intelligence sharing, They have the same words. They're scared of

929
01:04:47,693 --> 01:04:51,693
Speaker 6: people like Hamas as the Israelis are with less capability

930
01:04:51,693 --> 01:04:56,093
Speaker 6: of fighting them. So the Abraham Accord was designed to

931
01:04:56,213 --> 01:05:02,213
Speaker 6: create a basically a economic system kind of like the EU,

932
01:05:03,373 --> 01:05:09,133
Speaker 6: where the Israelis and their technological power and wealth and

933
01:05:09,373 --> 01:05:14,293
Speaker 6: Saudis came together and were very attractive to the other

934
01:05:14,333 --> 01:05:17,533
Speaker 6: Arab countries. At the same time, there had to be

935
01:05:17,653 --> 01:05:21,613
Speaker 6: a settlement on this war. And one of the reasons

936
01:05:21,733 --> 01:05:25,893
Speaker 6: that Hamas really was not liked in many Arab countries

937
01:05:26,813 --> 01:05:29,573
Speaker 6: is that it was a Hamas attack that undermined those accords.

938
01:05:29,693 --> 01:05:33,293
Speaker 6: They wanted to have closer relationships under the table. They

939
01:05:33,373 --> 01:05:36,853
Speaker 6: had very good relationships, many of them. There were these

940
01:05:37,053 --> 01:05:41,453
Speaker 6: groups like Hamas that were opposed to this, and it

941
01:05:41,533 --> 01:05:44,293
Speaker 6: is not fully known and by most people just how

942
01:05:44,333 --> 01:05:47,773
Speaker 6: deeply the Saudis and the Israelis were evolved with each

943
01:05:47,813 --> 01:05:50,853
Speaker 6: other that had common enemies, And it is not clear

944
01:05:50,933 --> 01:05:54,533
Speaker 6: how deeply the Israelis were evolved with the Gutter, the

945
01:05:54,653 --> 01:05:57,373
Speaker 6: UAE and other countries in that region. So even before

946
01:05:57,413 --> 01:06:01,373
Speaker 6: then there was relationships. The Abraham Accords were designed to

947
01:06:01,413 --> 01:06:04,253
Speaker 6: make them official, and they would have worked except for

948
01:06:04,293 --> 01:06:04,613
Speaker 6: this war.

949
01:06:06,133 --> 01:06:09,733
Speaker 2: So you've introduced a new pronunciation of kata as we

950
01:06:09,773 --> 01:06:11,773
Speaker 2: say in this part of the world. Say it again for.

951
01:06:11,813 --> 01:06:13,013
Speaker 3: Me, gotter.

952
01:06:13,933 --> 01:06:17,453
Speaker 6: Okay, that gutter, but that's the way we say it.

953
01:06:17,453 --> 01:06:18,373
Speaker 3: Well, called cutter.

954
01:06:18,653 --> 01:06:23,053
Speaker 2: As as you like it, the President doesn't. So, seeing

955
01:06:23,093 --> 01:06:26,893
Speaker 2: i've mentioned him. Out of one hundred, what percentage of

956
01:06:28,253 --> 01:06:31,333
Speaker 2: success can be attributed to Donald Trump.

957
01:06:33,093 --> 01:06:37,853
Speaker 6: I would say eighty percent, in the sense that his

958
01:06:38,093 --> 01:06:43,293
Speaker 6: very unpredictability was as scared of the Israelis and finally

959
01:06:43,333 --> 01:06:46,253
Speaker 6: scared of a mass. I mean, the Israelis really not

960
01:06:46,453 --> 01:06:49,653
Speaker 6: want to make this piece. They wanted to destroy a mass.

961
01:06:49,973 --> 01:06:53,373
Speaker 6: The price was rising, and the US made it clear

962
01:06:53,413 --> 01:06:55,573
Speaker 6: to the Israelis, We're not going to pay for this.

963
01:06:56,093 --> 01:06:56,493
Speaker 3: Okay.

964
01:06:57,133 --> 01:07:00,293
Speaker 6: That put them in a bad position because they needed

965
01:07:00,293 --> 01:07:04,333
Speaker 6: American sport to be able to do it. So what

966
01:07:05,573 --> 01:07:09,733
Speaker 6: Trump did was what any good strategies does. He took

967
01:07:10,093 --> 01:07:13,933
Speaker 6: the situation as it is pointed out to both sides

968
01:07:14,853 --> 01:07:17,293
Speaker 6: that we know each of you are in deep trouble

969
01:07:18,573 --> 01:07:20,413
Speaker 6: and that we're going to walk away and let you

970
01:07:20,533 --> 01:07:24,053
Speaker 6: kill each other. This frightened Hamas. But also there was

971
01:07:24,133 --> 01:07:29,493
Speaker 6: deep divisions inside of Israel which were closed because Trump

972
01:07:29,613 --> 01:07:32,373
Speaker 6: deviand so it was a very subtle game that he played,

973
01:07:32,373 --> 01:07:35,253
Speaker 6: a very complex game. But this was his game.

974
01:07:35,693 --> 01:07:38,373
Speaker 2: It's not the only time he's played a hand like that.

975
01:07:39,173 --> 01:07:43,213
Speaker 2: This is just the biggest question that I've pondered before,

976
01:07:43,573 --> 01:07:48,693
Speaker 2: is his unpredictability must have a life cap. How long

977
01:07:48,773 --> 01:07:53,333
Speaker 2: could he continue to deal with matters along the lines

978
01:07:53,373 --> 01:07:59,413
Speaker 2: that he does unpredictably at at various strengths and keep

979
01:07:59,453 --> 01:08:02,333
Speaker 2: succeeding or getting away with it if you want.

980
01:08:02,213 --> 01:08:06,493
Speaker 6: Sally, he's very predictable in the sense that what he

981
01:08:06,613 --> 01:08:10,853
Speaker 6: wants is to reduce the America and military exposure overseas. Remember,

982
01:08:10,893 --> 01:08:13,613
Speaker 6: the Middle East was an area supported by the Soviets,

983
01:08:14,213 --> 01:08:17,733
Speaker 6: the Egyptians, Assyrians, they were all Soviet allies. We got

984
01:08:17,733 --> 01:08:21,333
Speaker 6: involved in it because of the Cold War, and he

985
01:08:21,373 --> 01:08:23,133
Speaker 6: wanted to get away from the Cold War in.

986
01:08:23,093 --> 01:08:24,093
Speaker 3: Europe and everything else.

987
01:08:24,733 --> 01:08:27,653
Speaker 6: He also wanted to get involved, not involved in economic

988
01:08:27,773 --> 01:08:32,333
Speaker 6: problems overseas. It was terrorists. So when we look at

989
01:08:32,373 --> 01:08:35,813
Speaker 6: the way he approaches foreign policy, it has to minimize

990
01:08:35,853 --> 01:08:42,133
Speaker 6: the American military exposure, maximize economic benefits, and in his view,

991
01:08:42,533 --> 01:08:45,013
Speaker 6: the wars that are being waged in danger that he

992
01:08:45,053 --> 01:08:49,773
Speaker 6: wants to settle them with out sending troops. Same th

993
01:08:49,973 --> 01:08:50,453
Speaker 6: the Ukraine.

994
01:08:50,773 --> 01:08:57,493
Speaker 2: Right, speaking of overseas postings and developments, is it Utah

995
01:08:57,573 --> 01:09:02,693
Speaker 2: that is going to was already has established a base

996
01:09:02,813 --> 01:09:09,293
Speaker 2: for Kata for pilots training, at least at this point

997
01:09:09,333 --> 01:09:12,253
Speaker 2: of time. That's that's what it's for. Who knows what

998
01:09:12,253 --> 01:09:15,293
Speaker 2: what could happen in the end. This is this is

999
01:09:15,333 --> 01:09:19,693
Speaker 2: something that obviously Trump has agreed with hexath Is, the

1000
01:09:19,733 --> 01:09:24,053
Speaker 2: Minister for War, has Secretary for War has has been

1001
01:09:24,133 --> 01:09:26,613
Speaker 2: driving it along with some others. But there is a

1002
01:09:26,613 --> 01:09:29,693
Speaker 2: lot of opposition to it. Is it not a stupid

1003
01:09:29,693 --> 01:09:30,173
Speaker 2: thing to do?

1004
01:09:31,213 --> 01:09:31,413
Speaker 3: Well?

1005
01:09:31,533 --> 01:09:36,573
Speaker 6: Remember Central Command of the United States are United States

1006
01:09:36,973 --> 01:09:38,413
Speaker 6: operates in gutter.

1007
01:09:38,773 --> 01:09:41,053
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's but that's that's that's all right, that's that's

1008
01:09:41,093 --> 01:09:45,373
Speaker 2: to their advantage, our advantage if you want. But when

1009
01:09:45,373 --> 01:09:47,613
Speaker 2: you when you allow the other lot in, that's a

1010
01:09:47,693 --> 01:09:48,533
Speaker 2: whole different picture.

1011
01:09:49,053 --> 01:09:52,093
Speaker 6: Well, that Air Force base has a lot of countries

1012
01:09:52,133 --> 01:09:52,773
Speaker 6: training there.

1013
01:09:52,933 --> 01:09:53,853
Speaker 3: It's nothing unique.

1014
01:09:54,373 --> 01:09:58,853
Speaker 6: Singapore, for example, has a major presence there. The polls

1015
01:09:59,053 --> 01:10:02,733
Speaker 6: are there a lot of countries that we're allied with

1016
01:10:03,813 --> 01:10:07,733
Speaker 6: buy weapons from US fighter planes and so on get

1017
01:10:07,733 --> 01:10:11,533
Speaker 6: trained there. The fact is that the media and the

1018
01:10:11,573 --> 01:10:13,933
Speaker 6: public didn't know that, and so they thought this was

1019
01:10:13,973 --> 01:10:14,733
Speaker 6: a radical event.

1020
01:10:15,933 --> 01:10:17,093
Speaker 3: That's what we do all the time.

1021
01:10:17,213 --> 01:10:18,733
Speaker 2: Does it not bother you the one day it might

1022
01:10:18,773 --> 01:10:19,413
Speaker 2: come unstuck.

1023
01:10:21,333 --> 01:10:25,813
Speaker 6: Everything gets becomes unstuck at some point in geopolitics, you

1024
01:10:25,893 --> 01:10:28,173
Speaker 6: look at the next few minutes and you try to

1025
01:10:28,213 --> 01:10:30,933
Speaker 6: figure out what it is you really need, And what

1026
01:10:30,973 --> 01:10:33,813
Speaker 6: the United States really needs is not to be responsible

1027
01:10:33,813 --> 01:10:37,533
Speaker 6: for the world, not to be committing troops overseas. Remember,

1028
01:10:37,573 --> 01:10:40,213
Speaker 6: for the past eighty years, the United States has been

1029
01:10:40,213 --> 01:10:43,133
Speaker 6: in a series of wars between the Korean War and

1030
01:10:43,173 --> 01:10:45,453
Speaker 6: the Afghan War, none of which we did well.

1031
01:10:45,453 --> 01:10:45,533
Speaker 3: In.

1032
01:10:45,773 --> 01:10:48,253
Speaker 6: None of that we got any vegan. So Trump comes

1033
01:10:48,293 --> 01:10:50,133
Speaker 6: in and says, We're not going to keep doing this

1034
01:10:50,173 --> 01:10:52,893
Speaker 6: stupid thing, getting involved in the wars. We're going to

1035
01:10:52,893 --> 01:10:55,413
Speaker 6: try to settle them using our power. And that's what

1036
01:10:55,413 --> 01:10:58,133
Speaker 6: we did in this one. Didn't work in Ukraine. Yet

1037
01:10:58,333 --> 01:10:59,613
Speaker 6: this is what he did here.

1038
01:11:00,013 --> 01:11:03,573
Speaker 2: A matter of interest one, it's on my mind Trump

1039
01:11:03,573 --> 01:11:07,853
Speaker 2: coun't run again at the end of this term. Is

1040
01:11:07,933 --> 01:11:11,813
Speaker 2: there a possible crack in the constitution somewhere.

1041
01:11:13,373 --> 01:11:14,533
Speaker 3: That would allow him to run.

1042
01:11:14,933 --> 01:11:18,213
Speaker 6: No, there is none. He's not going to run. For

1043
01:11:18,293 --> 01:11:22,813
Speaker 6: one thing, he's seventy nine years old now, he's going

1044
01:11:22,853 --> 01:11:25,293
Speaker 6: to be eighty two years when he finishes his office,

1045
01:11:25,773 --> 01:11:27,493
Speaker 6: and he's not going to go for the Biden play.

1046
01:11:27,773 --> 01:11:32,053
Speaker 6: That's over. So he's just not going to run. But

1047
01:11:32,173 --> 01:11:34,933
Speaker 6: on the other hand, he's doing what you would expect

1048
01:11:35,293 --> 01:11:37,853
Speaker 6: that I predicted that would happen the United States. He's

1049
01:11:37,853 --> 01:11:42,253
Speaker 6: creating a massive storm in the United States, attacking the

1050
01:11:42,253 --> 01:11:45,893
Speaker 6: federal government the way he was structured, attacking universities for

1051
01:11:45,973 --> 01:11:50,373
Speaker 6: the way they teach. It's an institutional crisis, it's a

1052
01:11:50,413 --> 01:11:55,893
Speaker 6: cultural war, and he is systematically engaged it. Outside of there,

1053
01:11:56,453 --> 01:12:01,733
Speaker 6: he simply wants to stop being so exposed to international affairs.

1054
01:12:02,693 --> 01:12:06,053
Speaker 6: He can't do that if he doesn't settle the situation

1055
01:12:06,173 --> 01:12:08,973
Speaker 6: to some extent, so in the Middle East, to create

1056
01:12:09,053 --> 01:12:13,013
Speaker 6: a situation where the United States is going to need Israel.

1057
01:12:13,213 --> 01:12:16,813
Speaker 6: Remember the United States needed Israel in the Cold War

1058
01:12:17,453 --> 01:12:21,293
Speaker 6: because many of the Arab countries were pro Russian. Syria

1059
01:12:21,373 --> 01:12:24,853
Speaker 6: and Egypt we're both. So when you think about that

1060
01:12:26,133 --> 01:12:28,733
Speaker 6: in withdrawing from it, it's going to be a messy business.

1061
01:12:29,093 --> 01:12:32,053
Speaker 6: You just saw that happening, but no American troops are sent.

1062
01:12:33,293 --> 01:12:36,373
Speaker 2: So talk to me about the next stage, stage two

1063
01:12:36,733 --> 01:12:41,773
Speaker 2: of this plan. Of his stage one seems to have

1064
01:12:41,773 --> 01:12:48,253
Speaker 2: gone perfectly or close enough. Stage two does that involve well, actually,

1065
01:12:48,693 --> 01:12:53,533
Speaker 2: let me question myself. Does the surrender of weapons of

1066
01:12:53,573 --> 01:12:57,733
Speaker 2: war by Hamas fall into part one or two?

1067
01:12:59,573 --> 01:13:03,253
Speaker 6: It doesn't mean anything the Middle East. Anybody can buy

1068
01:13:03,333 --> 01:13:06,933
Speaker 6: any weapons they want in some place, so having them

1069
01:13:06,973 --> 01:13:09,333
Speaker 6: give up their current weapons as they can get others.

1070
01:13:10,613 --> 01:13:11,533
Speaker 3: This is the Middle East.

1071
01:13:12,453 --> 01:13:15,173
Speaker 6: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. There's a

1072
01:13:15,173 --> 01:13:19,973
Speaker 6: little joke I'll tell uh. There was a scorpion that

1073
01:13:20,053 --> 01:13:25,893
Speaker 6: wanted across the Suez Canal and he asked a fish

1074
01:13:26,013 --> 01:13:28,933
Speaker 6: or a frog or something to take him across. The

1075
01:13:28,933 --> 01:13:32,053
Speaker 6: frog said what are you going to You're going to

1076
01:13:32,133 --> 01:13:35,413
Speaker 6: kill me and said the scorpions said, no, I won't.

1077
01:13:35,413 --> 01:13:37,973
Speaker 6: They wouldn't do that. Okay, get on board, I'll take

1078
01:13:37,973 --> 01:13:42,133
Speaker 6: it across. In the middle of it, the scorpion stings him,

1079
01:13:42,413 --> 01:13:45,733
Speaker 6: and the dying words of the gulp of the fish

1080
01:13:45,933 --> 01:13:50,813
Speaker 6: was well, frog, frog, frog. The dying words of the

1081
01:13:50,853 --> 01:13:54,053
Speaker 6: frog were why, and the answer was welcome to the

1082
01:13:54,053 --> 01:13:54,573
Speaker 6: Middle East.

1083
01:13:55,333 --> 01:13:57,253
Speaker 2: The question is did the scorpion drown.

1084
01:13:58,213 --> 01:14:01,613
Speaker 6: Yeah, this was the interesting thing in the Middle East.

1085
01:14:01,973 --> 01:14:05,733
Speaker 6: Me dying is not necessarily a prohibitive event.

1086
01:14:06,413 --> 01:14:06,773
Speaker 2: All right.

1087
01:14:07,373 --> 01:14:10,813
Speaker 6: In other words, to your question, I find it very

1088
01:14:10,933 --> 01:14:14,853
Speaker 6: unlikely that any settlement can be reached because I don't

1089
01:14:14,853 --> 01:14:18,653
Speaker 6: think the Arab countries want a Palestinian state there. They

1090
01:14:18,653 --> 01:14:21,813
Speaker 6: have always been for it, but never helped make it.

1091
01:14:22,653 --> 01:14:22,853
Speaker 3: So.

1092
01:14:22,973 --> 01:14:28,373
Speaker 6: The West Bank, in the hands of these groups, uncontrolled

1093
01:14:28,453 --> 01:14:32,293
Speaker 6: by other countries in the region, are a tremendous threat

1094
01:14:32,333 --> 01:14:38,013
Speaker 6: to Israel. On the other hand, if Trump can convince

1095
01:14:38,053 --> 01:14:41,373
Speaker 6: them that the United States will intervene against any size

1096
01:14:41,413 --> 01:14:44,013
Speaker 6: the starts of war, knowing that he doesn't want to

1097
01:14:44,013 --> 01:14:48,013
Speaker 6: do this, that might be the play he can make. Otherwise,

1098
01:14:48,053 --> 01:14:49,973
Speaker 6: I don't see how this works.

1099
01:14:50,693 --> 01:14:53,813
Speaker 2: Well, that was basically my next question. What is there

1100
01:14:54,133 --> 01:14:59,933
Speaker 2: that exists that makes you nervous? Can you be a

1101
01:14:59,973 --> 01:15:01,373
Speaker 2: little more specific than you just would.

1102
01:15:01,973 --> 01:15:03,453
Speaker 3: I'm not nervous. I live in Texas.

1103
01:15:05,053 --> 01:15:09,533
Speaker 6: What makes it unlikely to be is that that nations

1104
01:15:09,573 --> 01:15:12,933
Speaker 6: that could be very powerful in the region, like Saudi Arabia,

1105
01:15:13,133 --> 01:15:16,173
Speaker 6: have always tried to keep away from this. You know,

1106
01:15:16,213 --> 01:15:20,013
Speaker 6: this is kind of the dreaded post that you can

1107
01:15:20,413 --> 01:15:21,893
Speaker 6: touch and never get rid of.

1108
01:15:23,173 --> 01:15:23,933
Speaker 3: That Trump did.

1109
01:15:23,933 --> 01:15:29,213
Speaker 6: It was impressive that he can hold it together, that

1110
01:15:29,253 --> 01:15:32,333
Speaker 6: the other countries will make the sacrifices necessary to hold

1111
01:15:32,333 --> 01:15:36,093
Speaker 6: it together and put this behind us. That goes against history.

1112
01:15:36,253 --> 01:15:38,453
Speaker 6: But maybe we'll go against history this time.

1113
01:15:39,813 --> 01:15:43,373
Speaker 2: Well, there's always the first time. Talk to me about

1114
01:15:43,733 --> 01:15:46,093
Speaker 2: nt Yahoo just for a moment. How secure is he.

1115
01:15:47,093 --> 01:15:48,653
Speaker 2: There are plenty of people who don't like him. We

1116
01:15:48,693 --> 01:15:49,533
Speaker 2: saw that last night.

1117
01:15:50,813 --> 01:15:56,333
Speaker 6: There is deep hostility to Netaho. One part believes that

1118
01:15:56,453 --> 01:15:59,333
Speaker 6: he's only doing this for his own well being, the

1119
01:15:59,733 --> 01:16:03,893
Speaker 6: legal problems and so on, and that he allowed all

1120
01:16:03,933 --> 01:16:07,733
Speaker 6: these skillings to go on of Israeli's for that. Secondly,

1121
01:16:08,093 --> 01:16:10,893
Speaker 6: there a group there that thinks he's an idiot because

1122
01:16:10,893 --> 01:16:14,253
Speaker 6: he does not understand military power and its uses. He

1123
01:16:14,293 --> 01:16:18,853
Speaker 6: exhausted the Israeli military. The Israeli military is bitter, it

1124
01:16:18,893 --> 01:16:22,253
Speaker 6: was not built to fight a two year war. And

1125
01:16:22,333 --> 01:16:25,253
Speaker 6: there are those who oppose him that simply think he's

1126
01:16:25,493 --> 01:16:29,133
Speaker 6: ruthless and unmerciful. Then there are the people who love

1127
01:16:29,213 --> 01:16:33,413
Speaker 6: him deeply, deeply because he did these things. Israel is

1128
01:16:33,453 --> 01:16:37,213
Speaker 6: a deeply divided country right now, and the divides are

1129
01:16:37,293 --> 01:16:41,573
Speaker 6: along the lines of that Nataniahu's said when he said,

1130
01:16:41,613 --> 01:16:45,133
Speaker 6: there's nothing I won't do, no matter how brutal, how

1131
01:16:45,213 --> 01:16:46,933
Speaker 6: much it costs Israel to do this.

1132
01:16:47,853 --> 01:16:50,373
Speaker 2: Is there anything else that you want to make an

1133
01:16:50,373 --> 01:16:51,533
Speaker 2: issue or take issue with.

1134
01:16:53,293 --> 01:16:56,493
Speaker 6: Well, from my point of view, you're seeing the American

1135
01:16:56,533 --> 01:17:03,573
Speaker 6: foreign policy under Trump taking hold, and this would have

1136
01:17:03,613 --> 01:17:07,053
Speaker 6: been something any American president did when the Cold War ended.

1137
01:17:07,973 --> 01:17:11,453
Speaker 6: Are in involvement in the Eastern Hemisphere was so extreme

1138
01:17:12,453 --> 01:17:17,453
Speaker 6: that we're constantly at war. We built our economy based

1139
01:17:17,493 --> 01:17:23,573
Speaker 6: on making Europe stronger, richer. We did foreign aid in

1140
01:17:23,653 --> 01:17:28,133
Speaker 6: order to stop Russian influence. We built our entire system

1141
01:17:28,413 --> 01:17:32,133
Speaker 6: for eight years around the world. And how it works

1142
01:17:32,933 --> 01:17:36,893
Speaker 6: with the collapse, with the failure of Russia in Ukraine,

1143
01:17:37,733 --> 01:17:42,653
Speaker 6: their inability to win a war that, as Trump said,

1144
01:17:42,773 --> 01:17:44,853
Speaker 6: the nations should have taken two weeks.

1145
01:17:46,293 --> 01:17:47,573
Speaker 3: The failure to do that.

1146
01:17:49,373 --> 01:17:53,413
Speaker 6: Basically tells us that Russians are not a threat. We're

1147
01:17:53,453 --> 01:17:57,733
Speaker 6: not impressed by the Chinese at all, for all their claims.

1148
01:17:58,813 --> 01:18:01,733
Speaker 6: And President g appears to be very very ill down

1149
01:18:01,813 --> 01:18:06,453
Speaker 6: by the way today as we talk, you said ill ill.

1150
01:18:06,693 --> 01:18:08,973
Speaker 6: He seems to have had a stroke. He's been ill

1151
01:18:09,053 --> 01:18:12,693
Speaker 6: for a while. At this point. The word is out

1152
01:18:12,893 --> 01:18:15,893
Speaker 6: in many places that he's had a stroke and that

1153
01:18:16,133 --> 01:18:17,533
Speaker 6: it's not clear that he's going to survive.

1154
01:18:19,653 --> 01:18:21,133
Speaker 2: How widespread is that would.

1155
01:18:22,453 --> 01:18:26,413
Speaker 6: It's pretty widespread. I received one phone call already, and

1156
01:18:26,453 --> 01:18:31,133
Speaker 6: it's on the media to some extent. But we knew

1157
01:18:31,173 --> 01:18:33,013
Speaker 6: he was ill.

1158
01:18:33,253 --> 01:18:37,493
Speaker 2: So he dies or he disappears. What would the nature

1159
01:18:37,533 --> 01:18:40,813
Speaker 2: of the personal people be who take over?

1160
01:18:42,053 --> 01:18:45,613
Speaker 6: Well, this is the problem. This economic situation in China.

1161
01:18:45,653 --> 01:18:50,293
Speaker 6: The side of China is really bad. There's unemployment, there

1162
01:18:50,413 --> 01:18:54,453
Speaker 6: is all sorts of problems, and recently she tried to

1163
01:18:54,613 --> 01:18:57,333
Speaker 6: put these down by taking over the control of all

1164
01:18:57,413 --> 01:19:00,453
Speaker 6: regions away from the governors in those regions. So there's

1165
01:19:00,493 --> 01:19:04,373
Speaker 6: an internal crisis. From the American point of view, we

1166
01:19:04,453 --> 01:19:08,973
Speaker 6: cannot depend on China for imports so long as they

1167
01:19:08,973 --> 01:19:13,333
Speaker 6: maintain a hostile relationship with the United States. So two

1168
01:19:13,973 --> 01:19:17,213
Speaker 6: dimensions are going on right now. There are economic talks

1169
01:19:17,853 --> 01:19:21,413
Speaker 6: where Trump just a raised a bar to one hundred

1170
01:19:21,413 --> 01:19:25,773
Speaker 6: percent tariff on China. There's also military talks going on.

1171
01:19:26,573 --> 01:19:30,973
Speaker 6: The United States is basically saying we can't be dependent

1172
01:19:31,013 --> 01:19:35,173
Speaker 6: on you economically. We have to create our own internal economy.

1173
01:19:35,413 --> 01:19:37,453
Speaker 6: You can't keep exporting to us the way you are,

1174
01:19:38,013 --> 01:19:39,733
Speaker 6: and we're one quarter of the world's economy.

1175
01:19:39,813 --> 01:19:40,853
Speaker 3: So that's a lot of.

1176
01:19:40,813 --> 01:19:46,613
Speaker 6: Money unless you shift your military stance, and those talks

1177
01:19:46,613 --> 01:19:50,213
Speaker 6: are going on now, it's very hard. G couldn't do that.

1178
01:19:50,973 --> 01:19:54,573
Speaker 6: What I expect to happen here is someone to emerge

1179
01:19:54,573 --> 01:19:56,653
Speaker 6: who understands that they're not going to war with the

1180
01:19:56,733 --> 01:19:59,213
Speaker 6: United States. The United States is not going to attack them,

1181
01:19:59,453 --> 01:20:01,293
Speaker 6: and they sure need to be able to export the

1182
01:20:01,333 --> 01:20:01,933
Speaker 6: United States.

1183
01:20:02,453 --> 01:20:06,453
Speaker 2: So what's an interesting will Still, I've got a couple

1184
01:20:06,453 --> 01:20:11,133
Speaker 2: of shorter questions and been were winded. A lot's been

1185
01:20:11,133 --> 01:20:14,093
Speaker 2: made of well, it's been mentioned many times the Hamass

1186
01:20:14,173 --> 01:20:18,973
Speaker 2: tunnels in Gaza and the amount of the amount of mileage.

1187
01:20:19,533 --> 01:20:22,173
Speaker 2: And when I first heard it being compared with the

1188
01:20:22,453 --> 01:20:26,533
Speaker 2: London Tube, I was absolutely stunned, because I mean in

1189
01:20:26,573 --> 01:20:32,013
Speaker 2: the Tube just recently and I felt affinity. But the

1190
01:20:32,133 --> 01:20:34,813
Speaker 2: question is how did they get away with building those

1191
01:20:35,613 --> 01:20:39,253
Speaker 2: without anybody, without anybody else knowing, or did other people

1192
01:20:39,333 --> 01:20:41,413
Speaker 2: know like your secrettacks.

1193
01:20:41,773 --> 01:20:45,813
Speaker 6: It was a massive intelligence failure by the Israelies. These

1194
01:20:45,813 --> 01:20:49,013
Speaker 6: Israelis have always prided themselves at how good they were,

1195
01:20:49,213 --> 01:20:53,533
Speaker 6: and there's one problem with Yahoo. They never penetrated Hamas

1196
01:20:54,693 --> 01:20:57,493
Speaker 6: and they didn't detect that movement, which they should have

1197
01:20:57,533 --> 01:21:01,653
Speaker 6: seen in some way, went on for over a year

1198
01:21:03,053 --> 01:21:05,773
Speaker 6: and they weren't ready for the attack. So there are

1199
01:21:05,813 --> 01:21:10,093
Speaker 6: books being written by israelis one book, the next one

1200
01:21:10,093 --> 01:21:14,093
Speaker 6: by Gabael katz quled while Israel slept it was a

1201
01:21:14,173 --> 01:21:15,733
Speaker 6: massive intelligence failure.

1202
01:21:16,253 --> 01:21:18,373
Speaker 2: Well, there is the rest of the world. I mean,

1203
01:21:18,373 --> 01:21:22,373
Speaker 2: I'm talking about about your security services that have much

1204
01:21:22,413 --> 01:21:25,853
Speaker 2: more potency, shall we say, than the Israeli. So we

1205
01:21:26,413 --> 01:21:31,293
Speaker 2: accept that they lewin well, but is there not a

1206
01:21:31,333 --> 01:21:34,133
Speaker 2: secondary responsible.

1207
01:21:34,253 --> 01:21:39,093
Speaker 6: The answer is no. The United States cannot be responsible

1208
01:21:39,173 --> 01:21:42,493
Speaker 6: for all of the intelligence issues in the world. The

1209
01:21:42,573 --> 01:21:46,653
Speaker 6: Israeli intelligence service is kind of rival to the CIA.

1210
01:21:47,093 --> 01:21:48,893
Speaker 6: They would kind of show off against each other that

1211
01:21:48,933 --> 01:21:52,453
Speaker 6: they cooperate, but this is purely an Israeli game. They

1212
01:21:52,853 --> 01:21:56,893
Speaker 6: No one ever imagined that Israeli intelligent sort of deteriorated

1213
01:21:56,973 --> 01:21:57,613
Speaker 6: to this extent.

1214
01:21:58,933 --> 01:22:00,973
Speaker 2: Last question is there are people who want to know

1215
01:22:01,133 --> 01:22:04,893
Speaker 2: the current position of the spacebook.

1216
01:22:06,293 --> 01:22:09,333
Speaker 6: The current position is states book is I get off here,

1217
01:22:10,173 --> 01:22:12,653
Speaker 6: I go take a look at the chapter headings and

1218
01:22:13,093 --> 01:22:15,413
Speaker 6: make sure that I like the names or the Meretith

1219
01:22:15,493 --> 01:22:19,613
Speaker 6: likes the names, and she's sending it to random house tonight.

1220
01:22:20,333 --> 01:22:22,693
Speaker 2: And it's gonna be released in about a year.

1221
01:22:23,853 --> 01:22:26,213
Speaker 6: Well, this one may be faster because there's a lot

1222
01:22:26,253 --> 01:22:28,893
Speaker 6: going on in the moon in the United States, a

1223
01:22:28,933 --> 01:22:32,133
Speaker 6: lot of technical activity, a lot of things going on,

1224
01:22:32,413 --> 01:22:33,613
Speaker 6: So we'll see.

1225
01:22:33,813 --> 01:22:36,133
Speaker 2: I just kind of I just can't understand why books

1226
01:22:36,133 --> 01:22:38,533
Speaker 2: take a year or thereabouts.

1227
01:22:38,773 --> 01:22:40,653
Speaker 6: But most of my books have to do with one

1228
01:22:40,693 --> 01:22:42,893
Speaker 6: hundred years. So they figured out.

1229
01:22:42,773 --> 01:22:48,853
Speaker 2: Side very very clever. George appreciate it and very good insight.

1230
01:22:49,653 --> 01:22:55,093
Speaker 2: And I trust I have no idea how you'll edit this. Well,

1231
01:22:55,093 --> 01:23:00,933
Speaker 2: why will I edit it?

1232
01:23:01,093 --> 01:23:02,133
Speaker 6: Choic it was chaotic?

1233
01:23:03,053 --> 01:23:07,693
Speaker 2: Well, this is it always anyway, appreciate it, and uh,

1234
01:23:08,373 --> 01:23:10,813
Speaker 2: we will talk at the next appropriate.

1235
01:23:10,253 --> 01:23:12,693
Speaker 3: Occasion, perhaps in New Orleans.

1236
01:23:13,293 --> 01:23:33,933
Speaker 2: Now you're talking, okay, see it. I went to the

1237
01:23:33,933 --> 01:23:36,893
Speaker 2: mail room for podcasts three hundred and six, missus producer.

1238
01:23:38,213 --> 01:23:41,893
Speaker 2: The sun is out for the first time today and

1239
01:23:41,933 --> 01:23:42,893
Speaker 2: it's Nillie over.

1240
01:23:43,053 --> 01:23:44,253
Speaker 5: I've forgot what it looks like.

1241
01:23:45,333 --> 01:23:48,693
Speaker 2: Do you want me to pull the curtains just momentarily now?

1242
01:23:50,333 --> 01:23:55,093
Speaker 2: From Colin. Colin writes, the podcast with Louise Klegg was

1243
01:23:55,173 --> 01:23:57,533
Speaker 2: well done and she's a very interesting person that I

1244
01:23:57,533 --> 01:24:01,013
Speaker 2: hope you have again. One thing touched on by her

1245
01:24:01,253 --> 01:24:05,333
Speaker 2: was the anti mail attitude that's in Australia. I mentioned

1246
01:24:05,333 --> 01:24:08,693
Speaker 2: this because in the next podcast, Stewart email you a

1247
01:24:08,813 --> 01:24:11,493
Speaker 2: very good critique of the New Zealand Herald and I

1248
01:24:11,573 --> 01:24:13,733
Speaker 2: would like to add one more thing to the article,

1249
01:24:14,173 --> 01:24:18,333
Speaker 2: and I hope that Stuart won't mind. On Stuart's behalf,

1250
01:24:18,533 --> 01:24:21,053
Speaker 2: I can tell you he doesn't mind and gives me approval,

1251
01:24:21,573 --> 01:24:24,893
Speaker 2: don't you, Stuart. What I and even some women with

1252
01:24:24,973 --> 01:24:28,813
Speaker 2: young boys amongst others, are offended by is the anti

1253
01:24:28,813 --> 01:24:31,773
Speaker 2: email attitude that comes through in many articles in the

1254
01:24:31,813 --> 01:24:35,413
Speaker 2: New Zealand Herald. This is another fault of the paper

1255
01:24:35,893 --> 01:24:41,933
Speaker 2: worth discussion, I think. Regards Colin ps, you said, if

1256
01:24:41,933 --> 01:24:44,773
Speaker 2: this email is badly written, you can correct it. With

1257
01:24:44,893 --> 01:24:48,173
Speaker 2: me having no school qualifications, it's all good to rewrite

1258
01:24:48,213 --> 01:24:53,293
Speaker 2: anything I said. I'm busy most of my time correcting mine.

1259
01:24:54,133 --> 01:24:54,733
Speaker 2: That's funny.

1260
01:24:55,653 --> 01:24:58,493
Speaker 5: Laton Joyce says, this is my first time emailing you,

1261
01:24:58,573 --> 01:25:00,253
Speaker 5: so firstly, I like to thank you for all the

1262
01:25:00,293 --> 01:25:03,653
Speaker 5: amazing podcasts you provide for us. There is so much

1263
01:25:03,693 --> 01:25:06,053
Speaker 5: going on behind the scenes in the world today and

1264
01:25:06,093 --> 01:25:08,813
Speaker 5: most keywis don't have a clue about it, often because

1265
01:25:08,853 --> 01:25:12,053
Speaker 5: they're too busy trying to survive. You bring a real

1266
01:25:12,133 --> 01:25:14,973
Speaker 5: perspective which is sorely lacking in the general media. A

1267
01:25:14,973 --> 01:25:18,013
Speaker 5: big thank you for that. I listened to your podcast

1268
01:25:18,093 --> 01:25:21,133
Speaker 5: three three with Muri on Youman this morning. She's another

1269
01:25:21,173 --> 01:25:23,493
Speaker 5: person we can thank for her exposure of what is

1270
01:25:23,533 --> 01:25:25,573
Speaker 5: going on in the background in New Zealand. It was

1271
01:25:25,613 --> 01:25:29,773
Speaker 5: a great interview. Towards the end of this podcast, Joyce,

1272
01:25:29,813 --> 01:25:32,373
Speaker 5: as you were commenting on Erica Kirk for giving the

1273
01:25:32,413 --> 01:25:35,653
Speaker 5: man who killed her husband, you admitted that you could

1274
01:25:35,653 --> 01:25:38,613
Speaker 5: not understand how she could do that. I wanted to

1275
01:25:38,653 --> 01:25:43,093
Speaker 5: share with you the answer Jesus. And then Joy gives

1276
01:25:43,133 --> 01:25:47,253
Speaker 5: you another couple of lovely paragraphs for your edification Laton,

1277
01:25:47,333 --> 01:25:50,573
Speaker 5: and she explains what she meant by that, and then

1278
01:25:50,573 --> 01:25:52,813
Speaker 5: she says, thank you for all you do. It's so

1279
01:25:52,893 --> 01:25:55,613
Speaker 5: good to hear someone who seeks the truth and stands

1280
01:25:55,613 --> 01:25:56,373
Speaker 5: for what is right.

1281
01:25:56,653 --> 01:26:01,573
Speaker 2: And that's from Joy. Joy. I appreciate your interest and concern.

1282
01:26:02,973 --> 01:26:07,013
Speaker 2: It's interesting me actually the number of people who are

1283
01:26:07,133 --> 01:26:11,013
Speaker 2: writing along similar lines. I'd what I'd love to know

1284
01:26:11,693 --> 01:26:15,533
Speaker 2: is if you've prepared to if you're going to tell

1285
01:26:15,573 --> 01:26:20,373
Speaker 2: me what your particular background is with regard to this

1286
01:26:21,293 --> 01:26:24,253
Speaker 2: in other words, what particular church you might have gone

1287
01:26:24,293 --> 01:26:28,133
Speaker 2: to or go to or whatever. I'm just interested, Philip

1288
01:26:28,133 --> 01:26:30,693
Speaker 2: writes late and re your podcast interview this week with

1289
01:26:30,773 --> 01:26:36,013
Speaker 2: Patrick Basham and the potential election of Zorum Mamdani. The

1290
01:26:36,093 --> 01:26:39,253
Speaker 2: old saying that nothing will get better until things get

1291
01:26:39,293 --> 01:26:43,093
Speaker 2: as worse as they can is exactly what is needed

1292
01:26:43,213 --> 01:26:46,373
Speaker 2: in New York City's case. I listened with great interest

1293
01:26:46,413 --> 01:26:49,413
Speaker 2: to hear Patrick describe events in the US and elsewhere

1294
01:26:49,493 --> 01:26:54,653
Speaker 2: parallel to what we're already seeing here. If not just emerging,

1295
01:26:54,693 --> 01:27:00,133
Speaker 2: then well underway. Like the education system, the great multicultural experiment,

1296
01:27:00,533 --> 01:27:04,013
Speaker 2: which is a slow motion train wreck in progress, has

1297
01:27:04,093 --> 01:27:09,973
Speaker 2: introduced all these problems into most Western democracy. Although Patrick

1298
01:27:10,053 --> 01:27:13,093
Speaker 2: says that although you don't wish it upon anyone, I've

1299
01:27:13,093 --> 01:27:17,413
Speaker 2: come to the conclusion that it's actually what needs to happen.

1300
01:27:18,133 --> 01:27:22,573
Speaker 2: Mandarmi needs to be elected and run his ruinous policies.

1301
01:27:22,973 --> 01:27:26,373
Speaker 2: They will almost certainly result in the total collapse of

1302
01:27:26,373 --> 01:27:30,533
Speaker 2: New York City, so that all those other idea logues

1303
01:27:30,573 --> 01:27:34,653
Speaker 2: and progressives actually learn a lesson that might cause them

1304
01:27:34,693 --> 01:27:37,653
Speaker 2: to stop and think before attempting to replicate that same

1305
01:27:37,773 --> 01:27:43,573
Speaker 2: policy elsewhere. Let me just tell you something Philip, it

1306
01:27:43,613 --> 01:27:49,893
Speaker 2: wouldn't because it's always somebody else's fault when socialism fails

1307
01:27:50,333 --> 01:27:52,973
Speaker 2: or whatever it is that people are trying to introduce. Always,

1308
01:27:52,973 --> 01:27:55,093
Speaker 2: they didn't do it properly. They didn't do this, they

1309
01:27:55,093 --> 01:27:57,293
Speaker 2: didn't do that. So let me add it because I

1310
01:27:57,333 --> 01:27:59,533
Speaker 2: can do it. No, you can't. You're full of it.

1311
01:28:01,213 --> 01:28:04,733
Speaker 2: Not you, Philip Mandarmi needs to be elected and run

1312
01:28:04,773 --> 01:28:08,413
Speaker 2: his ruinous policies, etc. New York City needs to be

1313
01:28:08,493 --> 01:28:11,053
Speaker 2: the poster child to the world to prove the failure

1314
01:28:11,213 --> 01:28:16,253
Speaker 2: of the progressive left's destructive socialist policies. Commonest socialism has

1315
01:28:16,413 --> 01:28:20,093
Speaker 2: proven to be a failure. Regrettably, they're not teaching real

1316
01:28:20,213 --> 01:28:24,813
Speaker 2: history and schools anymore. So the misinformed and uneducated left

1317
01:28:25,293 --> 01:28:27,853
Speaker 2: needs to have it demonstrated to them in black and

1318
01:28:27,853 --> 01:28:31,573
Speaker 2: white reality, in fact, that their blind acceptance and following

1319
01:28:31,613 --> 01:28:35,133
Speaker 2: of this ideology is doomed to failure and that they're

1320
01:28:35,213 --> 01:28:38,893
Speaker 2: going to be far worse off. Furthermore, it might very

1321
01:28:38,893 --> 01:28:42,613
Speaker 2: well wake up the apathetic majority into voting the pendulum

1322
01:28:42,613 --> 01:28:45,773
Speaker 2: to swing back the other way, case in point, the

1323
01:28:45,813 --> 01:28:49,973
Speaker 2: local body election here. Alas, the only negative to this

1324
01:28:50,453 --> 01:28:54,173
Speaker 2: is that those who care will probably have left dodge

1325
01:28:54,253 --> 01:28:57,693
Speaker 2: by them. But you know what, It's time for things

1326
01:28:57,733 --> 01:29:00,653
Speaker 2: to get worse, to prove those voters who support Mandarmi

1327
01:29:00,733 --> 01:29:05,533
Speaker 2: wrong and get rid of this progressive nonsense out of

1328
01:29:05,573 --> 01:29:07,453
Speaker 2: our democracies.

1329
01:29:08,413 --> 01:29:10,933
Speaker 5: Says when Patrick Basham warned that New York City is

1330
01:29:10,973 --> 01:29:13,013
Speaker 5: on the precipice of voting for a mayor who is

1331
01:29:13,093 --> 01:29:16,813
Speaker 5: anti New York City, I could relate. Next year, New

1332
01:29:16,853 --> 01:29:19,133
Speaker 5: Zealand will be on the precipice of voting for a

1333
01:29:19,173 --> 01:29:23,533
Speaker 5: government that is anti New Zealand. The three headed monstrosity

1334
01:29:23,573 --> 01:29:27,053
Speaker 5: that has Labour, Greens and the Mari Party. This tax

1335
01:29:27,133 --> 01:29:30,893
Speaker 5: loving Israel hating an anti whitelot will usher something even

1336
01:29:30,973 --> 01:29:34,453
Speaker 5: worse than what the Spectator called the empty politics of

1337
01:29:34,573 --> 01:29:39,453
Speaker 5: kindness of Jacinderadhurn. To avoid that catastrophic outcome. In twenty

1338
01:29:39,453 --> 01:29:42,333
Speaker 5: twenty six, can I suggest your listeners to pre order

1339
01:29:42,413 --> 01:29:47,333
Speaker 5: a copy of David Cohen's unauthorized biography Just Sinder, the

1340
01:29:47,493 --> 01:29:52,573
Speaker 5: untold stories talking about the empty politics of kindness. I'm

1341
01:29:52,773 --> 01:29:57,453
Speaker 5: amused to see the Free Palestine activists and mainstream media

1342
01:29:57,613 --> 01:30:02,173
Speaker 5: completely silent on Trump's success in securing an Israel Hamas

1343
01:30:02,293 --> 01:30:07,693
Speaker 5: ceasefire and the return of Israel hostages. Ironically, despite the

1344
01:30:07,773 --> 01:30:11,933
Speaker 5: leftist me deafening silence, Trump still made the news when

1345
01:30:11,973 --> 01:30:16,293
Speaker 5: the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize profusely dedicated her

1346
01:30:16,333 --> 01:30:17,453
Speaker 5: success to Donald Trump.

1347
01:30:17,533 --> 01:30:19,093
Speaker 2: Wasn't that outstanding? Oh?

1348
01:30:19,173 --> 01:30:21,093
Speaker 5: The left must have had their nickers in a twist,

1349
01:30:21,173 --> 01:30:25,693
Speaker 5: especially in New Zealand's most famous Palestinian, Chloe Swarbrick. I'm

1350
01:30:25,733 --> 01:30:27,853
Speaker 5: counting on a new generation of young people who have

1351
01:30:28,013 --> 01:30:31,333
Speaker 5: experienced woke hell to reject the Greta Thunbergs of this

1352
01:30:31,453 --> 01:30:35,533
Speaker 5: world and choose the Charlie Kirks instead. It's from chin.

1353
01:30:36,893 --> 01:30:40,373
Speaker 2: A Gin. I was only yesterday had somebody tell me

1354
01:30:40,453 --> 01:30:43,493
Speaker 2: something or say something to me about the individual you

1355
01:30:43,613 --> 01:30:49,493
Speaker 2: just mentioned. It wasn't very pleasant, but it was true anyway.

1356
01:30:49,853 --> 01:30:54,693
Speaker 2: Wowser's I think this is from twenty nine September, and

1357
01:30:54,733 --> 01:30:59,933
Speaker 2: I know that this got missed in the shuffling. Wowser's,

1358
01:31:00,493 --> 01:31:04,213
Speaker 2: I've never heard doctor Muriel Newman. This fired up three

1359
01:31:04,333 --> 01:31:09,973
Speaker 2: dams in three minutes while describing the climate change ideology

1360
01:31:10,013 --> 01:31:14,173
Speaker 2: that is driving First World countries into cost of living oblivion.

1361
01:31:14,773 --> 01:31:17,413
Speaker 2: Also thanks to her, I now realize that Haypua poor

1362
01:31:17,573 --> 01:31:21,653
Speaker 2: is a long march time bomb set by the insidious

1363
01:31:21,653 --> 01:31:25,893
Speaker 2: adern Hipkin's government to establish sovereign Mari rule by twenty

1364
01:31:25,933 --> 01:31:28,853
Speaker 2: forty if we give our votes to Labour, Greens or

1365
01:31:28,853 --> 01:31:32,293
Speaker 2: the Mari Party. But what's worse, I notice an even

1366
01:31:32,333 --> 01:31:35,973
Speaker 2: more alarming trend. More and more New Zealander is a

1367
01:31:36,053 --> 01:31:40,293
Speaker 2: consciously or subconsciously renaming New Zealand a tier row in

1368
01:31:40,373 --> 01:31:45,173
Speaker 2: New Zealand, or worse, just a tier rower. I have

1369
01:31:45,293 --> 01:31:49,013
Speaker 2: no idea about which they speak, therefore I can't communicate

1370
01:31:49,053 --> 01:31:53,733
Speaker 2: with them. Now, this phenomenon is not limited to the

1371
01:31:53,893 --> 01:31:57,293
Speaker 2: left or right, but it's across the board. The anti

1372
01:31:57,413 --> 01:32:01,613
Speaker 2: racist idea virus has truly infected more New Zealanders than

1373
01:32:01,653 --> 01:32:06,213
Speaker 2: I thought. This is a subconscious capitulation to the apartheid state.

1374
01:32:06,893 --> 01:32:09,933
Speaker 2: Thankfully there is hope and some spine left. Yet, Winston

1375
01:32:09,973 --> 01:32:14,893
Speaker 2: Peters did something brilliant and unexpected recently, New Zealand refused

1376
01:32:14,893 --> 01:32:19,053
Speaker 2: to follow the International Sheep to recognize Palestine's statehood until

1377
01:32:19,053 --> 01:32:23,093
Speaker 2: there is peace. Following this brave act, here's a challenge

1378
01:32:23,093 --> 01:32:25,773
Speaker 2: for the government. If we have enough spine to not

1379
01:32:25,933 --> 01:32:29,933
Speaker 2: recognize Palestine's statehood, why not also have the spine to

1380
01:32:30,213 --> 01:32:34,053
Speaker 2: not recognize the Paris climate accord until we can prove

1381
01:32:34,133 --> 01:32:38,853
Speaker 2: a strong and productive New Zealand economy under the accord.

1382
01:32:39,733 --> 01:32:43,893
Speaker 2: And why not, as doctor Muriel Newman rightfully suggests, have

1383
01:32:44,053 --> 01:32:47,893
Speaker 2: enough spine to remove race from all New Zealand legislation.

1384
01:32:48,853 --> 01:32:53,853
Speaker 2: Strike while the spine is stiffened, not bed. Now, I

1385
01:32:53,893 --> 01:32:56,253
Speaker 2: suggest you go rest that voice. I know, I don't

1386
01:32:56,253 --> 01:33:01,093
Speaker 2: know what happened to well revealing the more so, Oh dear,

1387
01:33:01,653 --> 01:33:02,773
Speaker 2: So we'll see you next week.

1388
01:33:02,813 --> 01:33:03,493
Speaker 5: You will lighton.

1389
01:33:03,573 --> 01:33:16,373
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, missus. P Now, if you would

1390
01:33:16,413 --> 01:33:21,573
Speaker 2: like to comment on this particular matter that has been

1391
01:33:21,653 --> 01:33:25,693
Speaker 2: under discussion, or anything else for that matter, Latent at

1392
01:33:25,693 --> 01:33:28,613
Speaker 2: News Talks AB dot co dot nz or Caravin at

1393
01:33:28,613 --> 01:33:32,733
Speaker 2: NEWSTALKSB dot co dot nz always interested in your feedback

1394
01:33:33,093 --> 01:33:37,213
Speaker 2: and always interested in well mostly interested in other things

1395
01:33:37,213 --> 01:33:40,213
Speaker 2: that you might want to draw to my attention. So

1396
01:33:40,253 --> 01:33:43,413
Speaker 2: we shall return to podcast three oh seven in another week.

1397
01:33:43,933 --> 01:33:47,773
Speaker 2: Until then, as always, thank you for listening and we'll

1398
01:33:47,813 --> 01:33:48,333
Speaker 2: talk soon.

1399
01:33:56,213 --> 01:33:59,253
Speaker 3: Thank you for more from News Talks at B.

1400
01:33:59,533 --> 01:34:02,773
Speaker 1: Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows

1401
01:34:02,813 --> 01:34:06,093
Speaker 1: with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio