1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Tuesday morning. Prime Minister Christopher Lection's, well, it's very good 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: morning to you. 3 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 2: Good morning, Mike. 4 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Now, I've got a lot of wastage going on. I 5 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: hope you're aware of this. Are you up on the 6 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: New Zealand Film Commission? And there are many and varied 7 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: parties that the taxpayer is funding. 8 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: A little bit yep, what do you want to talk about? 9 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: The part that it's allowed to happen and when does 10 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: it stop? 11 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I just said it again, the. 12 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: Part that it happens and when does it stop? 13 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: The Film Commission? 14 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: Have we got a bad phone line or something. 15 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: We might do? Sorry about that. You're breaking up a 16 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 2: little bit, but yes, you start again. 17 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: Okay. The Film Commission are hosting parties for people who 18 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: are leaving, and they're hosting parties for people who are arriving, 19 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: and it's costing us tens of thousands of dollars. Is 20 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: that acceptable? 21 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 2: Well, again, I'm not aware of what they're doing exactly 22 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 2: in terms of their operational details. They're trying to attract 23 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: people to actually do projects here. We've got a good 24 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 2: amount of projects coming into New Zealand, which is good 25 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: for our our industry inter sector here that's been a 26 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: good thing. I'm not exactly sure what's appropriate or what 27 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: level they've been doing hosting and trying to attract projects 28 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: to New Zealand. I think it's good that they do 29 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 2: do that. 30 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: But when a CEO arrives and they say let's have 31 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: a party for an arriving CEO and they spend eight 32 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: thousand dollars doing that, is that typical of the public service? 33 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: Well, that wouldn't seem appropriate to me. I mean, I 34 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 2: think you want to be able to have high level 35 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: engagement to welcome a CEO and to talk about the 36 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: project they want to get involved with. When I was 37 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: in California, for example, when I met with Apple, they 38 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 2: want to do a number of productions here in New Zealand. 39 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: They don't need a party for that. They just need 40 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 2: to know that I'm aware of what's going on, and 41 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: I'm encouraging them to choose US over Ireland or Yugoslavia 42 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 2: or some other place to do the project. 43 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: So is there a message from the government top down 44 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: going to the government departments that we're not having parties 45 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: and they're unacceptable, or has that message been ignored or 46 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: was there no message at all? 47 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: No that message is being applied on a regular basis, 48 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: and I've made it really, really clear. I'm expecting every 49 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: single public sector CEO to deliver within their budgets. You 50 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: would have seen us make big interventions on say Health 51 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 2: New Zealand recently Housing New Zealand, disability services. When we 52 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: give you a budget, we expect you to deliver it 53 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 2: and manage within the funds that we've got Health to Blasic, right, 54 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: thirty billion dollars to spend a year, sixteen point seven 55 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: billion going more in and then all of a sudden 56 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 2: the deficit emerges because there's very poor financial control and 57 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 2: understanding of what's going on. Unacceptable. That's why pro Commissioner 58 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: and so I think, you know, the message is pretty clear. 59 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: I don't know. I make it clear every day of 60 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 2: my interactions with CEOs and different officials about what we're 61 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: expecting to do, you know, And you imagine there'll be 62 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: some dumb stuff that happens, yes, and people want to 63 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 2: make sure that that's corected very very quickly. Right. 64 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: What about the thirty three million that the Ministry of 65 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: Foreign Affairs and Trade it project it nearly tripled in 66 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: cost since it started in twenty twenty one. It's been 67 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: a failure for all of its existence and the wider 68 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: ministry was made aware of it before millions of dollars 69 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: more were misspent. How does that happen? 70 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we'll come away. That's project that was i 71 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: think was picked off under our journ government and there 72 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: was over spending in there, and there's been interventions made 73 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: from the top of impact to make sure that's gripped up. 74 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 2: And when St Peter's Minister Foreign Affairs was briefed about 75 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,239 Speaker 2: it and he's laid little down pretty firmly, and obviously 76 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: it don't quite a change happening as a result of that. 77 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: So you know, again those are the things that are happening. 78 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: I mean, there is literally in public spending important that 79 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: they understand that it's taxpayers money. They have to be 80 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: spent really prudently and you spend it as if it's 81 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 2: your own money, as if you actually do your own 82 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: family budget. So we're building that culture back into Wellington. 83 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: We have to build it back in But yep, that's 84 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: a good example of project that's overrun and it can't 85 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: be let If projects are over running, we want that 86 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: surface very quickly. We want to know about it, and 87 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: we wanted more an action plan to get it back 88 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: on track again and on time. 89 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: So what's your observation of this? And this comes out 90 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: of your POSTCAB press conference, which once again I waited 91 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: my way through for forty minutes yesterday, as you did. 92 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: I appreciate you listening to that, I really do. 93 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you're telling us yesterday that members of boards 94 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: and exis, KISS and Health couldn't get basic financial information. 95 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, is that possible? 96 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: I don't know. That's why we've made the interventions we 97 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: have because when you told everything's five and then it 98 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: finds out, you find out there's actually not very good 99 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: cash flow analysis. There's twenty one different accounts, payout systems. 100 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: You know what actually happened, Let's be honest about it 101 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: was a really botched merger. We've seen it now in 102 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: TPOO King and we've seen in disability services. We've seen 103 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 2: it in KO, We've seen it in Health New Zealand 104 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: where actually when you remember mergers and acquisitions, well, if 105 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: you buy a new company, you really quickly identify the synities, 106 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: get out the duplication, make sure it's embedded properly into 107 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: the organization and you build a proper organization. In this case, 108 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 2: twenty one DHB is basically carried on big slack of 109 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: big layer of management over the top of it, and 110 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 2: no financial reporting and literacy to the board, provided to 111 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 2: the board, and the board not able and didn't ask 112 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: questions about information they needed to know. And so no 113 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: longer a bod, no longer a Gevin, a commissioner with 114 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 2: very big powers to actor and move very very quick 115 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: in less to leving and he'll be great. I think 116 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 2: you might have had him on the show, but you know, 117 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: he's a pretty straight talker. And I meet with him 118 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: now with Nikola Willis Shander Media, myself and him and 119 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 2: his commissioners, and we go on a regular meeting to say, right, oh, 120 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 2: what is happening this week, what are we doing, and 121 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: what are the challenges that you're encountering with In a 122 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 2: matter of a week and a bit Low and behold, 123 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: for the first time there's been in decent cash flow analysis, 124 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: which is when you're trying to run a large organization 125 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: eighty five thousand people, thirty billion dollars worth of spending 126 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 2: and more money coming into it, it's kind of a basic. 127 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: Right yea, it is. I just despair it what you're 128 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: having to deal with. Then I'm reading yesterday about the 129 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: National Disaster Coordination System, right, so a COP a common 130 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: operating platform. So New Zealand's latest attempt to build a 131 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: COP was abandoned weeks ago. The country lacks even a 132 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: proper foundation for one spatial data infrastructure, is what we're 133 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: talking about. This is despite Cabinet ordering an SDI to 134 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: be built in twenty fourteen, saying it would boosts the 135 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: economy by billions of dollars, organizations didn't want to share 136 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: their data. Not only has an SDI never been built, 137 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: the National Geospatial Office, which has only ever had two 138 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: or three people in it any way, folded in twenty eighteen. 139 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: And we wonder when it rains why the same crap 140 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 1: happens over and over and over again. 141 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: Data management is a major major issue, right And if 142 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: you don't collect the data, you can't analyze it, and 143 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: then you can't take action on it. And it's not 144 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: about just collecting data. You've got to have action and 145 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: insights from that data that then changes the way you 146 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: do things. And so you're right, whether it's in the 147 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: spatial planning space and land that we know that floods 148 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: and doesn't flood and then is consented at a local 149 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: government level. Frankly, whether it's things in the way that 150 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: local governments respond to common systems around emergency management. We 151 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: were very fortunate in christ Church that christ Church and 152 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: Seal and why Mack had the same system to deal 153 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 2: with porthills fires. But actually across the country sixty two 154 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 2: different district councils have different systems and so but in 155 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: government I don't personally believe is very good at building 156 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: IT systems. Are the right people to do that stuff, 157 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: and we do too much customization. We should take off 158 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: the shelf products in the digital space because we're meaning 159 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: billions and billions of dollars on IT projects and so 160 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: we're trying to get our hands around that as well. 161 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: Cheers, there's a report this morning. You've set aside too. 162 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: And want to depression Mike. 163 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: It's like they feel sorry for We have great. 164 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: Potential, but we have to sort this mess out and 165 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: this is what we're going to do. This is a 166 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: turn when I say turn around job, this is the 167 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: stuff that I'm talking about, and this is why New 168 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 2: Zealanders can't take good management for granted. You know, you 169 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: can have all the slogans you want, you can talk 170 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: all combined are much as much as you like, but 171 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 2: you've actually got to run stuff well and deliver it well. 172 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: You've set aside two hundred and sixteen million, it's reported 173 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: this morning, contingency on these heat to tobacco products is one. 174 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: Is that true? If you've set aside two hundred and 175 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: sixteen million, as in the money you won't be getting 176 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: and it helps thirty seven thousand people, that's thirty thousand 177 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: dollars per person. Is that worth it? 178 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a few things going on there. One 179 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: is there's a new category of products called heated tobacco. 180 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: You know, there's a whole bunch of new innovations in 181 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: that space. It's not you know that better products, we 182 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: believe for you than people being on cigarettes. We know 183 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: what vaping's done to lower smoking rates. If there's another 184 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 2: way in which we get people away from cigarette, that's good. 185 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: So we don't actually formally know what the growth of 186 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 2: that sector will look like over the next twelve months 187 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: or so. Having said that, we put the maximum contingency 188 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: away in case and what we've done. Is what we've 189 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: done is have the excise tax on those kind of products, 190 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: so there's still excise tax being paid. But we're trying 191 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 2: to incent people to move away from cigarette so we 192 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: can get our daily smoking rates down to five percent. 193 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: I've gone down from eight point six to six point eight. 194 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: We think we're actually on track to deliver smoke free 195 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, which is the five percent daily smoking rate. 196 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 2: And we're going to try it for twelve months and 197 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: let's see how it goes and put a review in place. 198 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: But we put maximum money aside from a contingency point 199 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: of view, not knowing what the uptake ultimately of these 200 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: products will look and feel like. Currently it's low, and 201 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: then we'll review it in twelve month. 202 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: All right, I got to go, but give me thirty 203 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 1: seconds on this. The one hundred school building projects that 204 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: have been put on hold, how many of them is 205 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: because they're bespoke and cutting edge and expensive versus how 206 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: many are actually full in the mold part. 207 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 2: Of it, big part of it, hopelessly local, lots of customization, 208 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: lots of best spokeness, and what we need is standard classrooms. 209 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: You can sex it up around the outside with some 210 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: better landscaping for sure, but actually, for goodness sake, let's 211 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: just do things in one way, same way, every way, 212 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: standardized way, get the cost down and you'll have a 213 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 2: better quality buildings across our school infrastructure. 214 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: Appreciate your time, Christoph Lax and the Prime Minister. I'd 215 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: recommend you go listen to yesterday's press conference one because 216 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: it was became a bitch fescet after a while. But 217 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: more importantly, when a Prime minister talks about a grouping 218 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: of people, i e. Health that spends thirty billion dollars 219 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: a year and you've got people, whether're on the board 220 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: or the executive, that literally cannot find what's spent, where 221 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: it's spent, how it's spent, why it's spent. This country 222 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: is buggered. 223 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast. 224 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: Listen live to News Talks it' B from six am weekdays, 225 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.