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Speaker 1: On the huddle of this this evening, Tris Shurson Shurson,

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Speaker 1: Willis pr and Mark Sainsbury broadcast to hire you.

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Speaker 2: Two good Hello.

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Speaker 1: Now I don't know about yu, Trish. Would you be

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Speaker 1: a bogan who's into you're going to go to the

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Speaker 1: rugby ley?

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't think you'll find me at the State

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Speaker 3: of Origin match, but that doesn't mean I am not

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Speaker 3: fizzing about it coming to Auckland. I was driving around

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Speaker 3: last week as often do I haven't with the radio

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Speaker 3: on and I heard someone on talking about how this

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Speaker 3: last weekend we've had in Auckland that our hotel bookings

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Speaker 3: had been the biggest they had been since pre COVID,

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Speaker 3: and I just think, you know, the Queen City over

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Speaker 3: the last six years had really lost her shine, and

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Speaker 3: I feel like she's getting it back. You can living

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Speaker 3: in Auckland. You can just feel it as you drive around.

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Speaker 3: We've got amazing things at the sale GP and having

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Speaker 3: a big forward pipeline of these great events like State

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Speaker 3: of Origin means that hopefully Auckland can get back into

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Speaker 3: playing in the big leagues when it comes to these

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Speaker 3: kinds of events. But we do need those big league

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Speaker 3: settings that makes it great for events to come here.

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Speaker 1: You're too right. I mean, actually, in all honesty saying so,

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Speaker 1: the announcement of state of origin is actually much less

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Speaker 1: important than the change of rules for Eden Park, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's that's going to be a sort

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Speaker 2: of a game. I mean it's I think everyone seems

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Speaker 2: he pleased about that, unless you can happen to be

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Speaker 2: you know, some of the bigley live there who don't

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Speaker 2: like it going on. I mean I found it. Your

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Speaker 2: interesting thing about the state of Oha courses is they

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Speaker 2: could have it at any stadium in Australia and sell

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Speaker 2: it out. You know, they don't need to bring it

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Speaker 2: here as a money spinner, but they want to grow

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Speaker 2: the game.

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Speaker 1: And we sweetened it with five mil.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but look, you know, as I said that

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Speaker 2: one of those stated of games wherever you had them,

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Speaker 2: we ever had them, is going to be a money spinner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah too. Right, So, and look I think it's fantastic

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Speaker 2: and there's I think that Trisha's right, you know, having

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Speaker 2: things that look forward to you sort of get that

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Speaker 2: lift without that before you even speak the day Yeah too.

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Speaker 1: Right now, this FDA business, Trish, what do you think

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Speaker 1: about this. So we is this thirty three billion dollars

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Speaker 1: over fifteen years serious?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I don't know about whether it's The

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Speaker 3: question is whether it's serious. I think the question is

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Speaker 3: what does the wording actually mean? Because when it comes

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Speaker 3: to trade deals, they open doors, but of course they

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Speaker 3: don't make companies walk through them. So this thirty four

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Speaker 3: billion line sounds good that that's essentially saying, you know,

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Speaker 3: our companies will go off and make these investments in India.

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Speaker 3: But the real question is can we here in New

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Speaker 3: Zealand create the conditions where businesses want to actually make

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Speaker 3: that kind of investment at scale? And I think that's

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Speaker 3: the bigger question. And often we get confused between what

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Speaker 3: government can do and actually all of the real business

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Speaker 3: stuff that businesses have to to make this stuff work.

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Speaker 1: Yep, fair point saying so, And on this constant carping

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Speaker 1: from the Labor Party, they're only doing this for politics,

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Speaker 1: right because we all know that at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day they're going to support this, aren't they.

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Speaker 2: Well yes, But I mean the other issue, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think this serious questions be asked about this thirty

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Speaker 2: five billion investment, and they're from ordver Young that a

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Speaker 2: very good piece of the Herald sort of going into

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Speaker 2: the details of this, and a lot of it was

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Speaker 2: that that sort of money who was going to mean

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Speaker 2: a who was going to have that money to invest

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Speaker 2: plus built into the agreement is something that we're in

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Speaker 2: there can say hey, you haven't fulfilled this, We're going

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Speaker 2: to cancel this or do this or claim that, and

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Speaker 2: no one's one hundred percent sure of how that's going

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Speaker 2: to work.

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Speaker 1: Trash.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I caught the Q and A interview yesterday with Todd

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Speaker 3: McClay and it was canvassing this issue and the migration

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Speaker 3: issue in relation to the trade agreement, and I think

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Speaker 3: there's two things that struck out for me, Like for most,

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Speaker 3: for most Kiwi's this is really hard to understand and get.

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Speaker 2: A grip on.

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Speaker 3: So I think the call is to our senior politicians

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Speaker 3: to be upfront about it and try not to skew

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Speaker 3: off into populism, because you know, migration is such a

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Speaker 3: hot button issue around the world and Winston is trying

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Speaker 3: to go off on that tangent with this, but also

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Speaker 3: on these kinds of numbers and what they mean in

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Speaker 3: the agreement. It may be that the government needs to

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Speaker 3: get much clearer on the messaging around that and what

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Speaker 3: these words actually mean in not only in practice, but

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Speaker 3: who will have to deliver on these promises?

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Speaker 1: Yeah too write and whether they can actually be forced

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Speaker 1: to deliver on them. Guys, we'll take a break and

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Speaker 1: come back and just to talk about David Seymour and

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Speaker 1: his cutting the size of government policy the huddle Mark

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Speaker 1: Sainsbury Trisherson now Saints what did you make of David

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Speaker 1: Seymour's policy to cut the size of government?

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Speaker 2: How many times have we heard this? But I do

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Speaker 2: have a certain amount of sympathy for cutting the size.

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Speaker 2: I think cabinet is too bigger. I've always preferred the

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Speaker 2: American system. You get proper people who know what they're

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Speaker 2: doing in cabinet rather than time service. But regardless of that,

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Speaker 2: you actually nailed it before. If it's not a bottom line,

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Speaker 2: what does it actually mean?

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Speaker 1: Yes, Tresh, what do you thank you? Sainso for agreeing

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Speaker 1: with me? Tresh?

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Speaker 3: Would add two words actually to your bottom line in

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Speaker 3: terms of every policy put up this election, and that

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Speaker 3: would be cost benefit. And you know this is a

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Speaker 3: great example of where we are lacking real cost benefit

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Speaker 3: analysis across government. Starting with what does this whole picture

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Speaker 3: look like. So don't forget when you're looking at the

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Speaker 3: sort of structure of government, you've got ministers sitting at

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Speaker 3: the top, who then are in charge of portfolios, and

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Speaker 3: then as a result of those portfolios, you have the

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Speaker 3: departments sitting underneath them. So in my view, this isn't

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Speaker 3: an all chart hobby to relook at how we can

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Speaker 3: streamline government. It's actually about accountability. Because you the three

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Speaker 3: of us, I don't know how many times we've looked

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Speaker 3: at things going wrong, we've talked about a lack of accountability.

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Speaker 3: That's because the system is an absolute muddle. So that's

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Speaker 3: problem one that it needs to solve is better accountability.

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Speaker 3: The second point is, you know, if you want to

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Speaker 3: reform departments, you have to reform what sits above them.

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Speaker 3: So that is actually to Mark's point about streamlining our cabinet.

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Speaker 3: At the moment, way too many cabinet ministers portfolios are

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Speaker 3: a mess across them. There's a lot of duplication, which

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Speaker 3: means for ministries it's confusing as well. And then I

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Speaker 3: think the other point, and this is really the risk area.

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Speaker 3: Though this would have to be done incredibly thoughtfully and surgically,

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Speaker 3: because what we've seen time and time again is reorganizing

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Speaker 3: the deck chairs on the Titanic. Health in New Zealand

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Speaker 3: is a great example, and you get stasis, you get

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Speaker 3: huge cost and people again they lose sight of the

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Speaker 3: cost benefit analysis and the problem that we're trying to solve.

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Speaker 1: You too, right, is it not possible actually saying so

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Speaker 1: that the government is by government? I do mean you know,

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Speaker 1: the state, the public service, the cabinet, that the executive,

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Speaker 1: the whole lot of it is so big and there

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Speaker 1: are so many vested interests and so much fear of

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Speaker 1: taking a risk that actually the chances of being able

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Speaker 1: to reduce it are pretty low.

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Speaker 2: So a combination of the deep state and.

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Speaker 1: Not like conspiracy theory, no more tiding on. Look look

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Speaker 1: at look at health.

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Speaker 2: Look there's always an issue, and I think there's always

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Speaker 2: been an issue spent even with the public service. It's

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Speaker 2: just like this monolith and it's just very hard to change,

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Speaker 2: you know. So whether you're going to have to look

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Speaker 2: at something you're radical and or do you look at

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Speaker 2: sort of incremental change, it's just gonna.

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Speaker 1: Not know you need to go radical. But if you

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Speaker 1: do go radical, do you reckon it would work, Like

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Speaker 1: do you reckon? You could actually convince somebody Okay, here's

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Speaker 1: this is how you do it, wouldn't it be you'd

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Speaker 1: cut a bunch of ministries like you go through and

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Speaker 1: you go bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, Women's Ministry, mari Affairs, ministry,

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Speaker 1: Ethnic af fairs, like just get rid of them, wouldn't you.

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Speaker 2: Then we've also got no no, no.

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Speaker 3: Industries.

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Speaker 2: But are you going to end up as well? There's

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Speaker 2: all got a factor in the human cost. I mean,

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Speaker 2: look at even just what the cuts, the cuts, which

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Speaker 2: is the next transpiring the cuts the sort of Wellington

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Speaker 2: that's the other thing you're going to you're talking of

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Speaker 2: also people's lives.

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Speaker 1: Ye would, But I think again, go go Trish.

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Speaker 3: You're starting you're starting in the middle of the sad word.

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Speaker 3: You've got to start with the slice on top. You

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Speaker 3: have to start with cabinet and how that's leans example,

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Speaker 3: and then and then that is what determines then what

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Speaker 3: portfolios and ministry sit under that. If you just come

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Speaker 3: back to which is where we've got in the last

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Speaker 3: few years with quote, you know, cuts to the public service,

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Speaker 3: again we lose sight of the problem that we're trying

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Speaker 3: to solve and we also don't get to the benefit

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Speaker 3: that we need out of it. So you've got to

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Speaker 3: start at the top and work through it systematically.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, before you.

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Speaker 2: See, there also should be a cross party issue. I mean,

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Speaker 2: how government runs and the efficiency is you know, no,

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Speaker 2: it's in power for ever, so it switches over. So

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Speaker 2: it should be something that all the parties should be

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Speaker 2: involved in saying how can we make this better? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Well true, but yeah, and we'll have a debate about

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Speaker 1: bipartisanship or whether that's a good idea later or not.

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Speaker 1: Listen really quickly from each of you, say so, if

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Speaker 1: I had to ask you to define what New Zealand

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Speaker 1: cuisine is, how would you describe it?

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Speaker 2: Chips?

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Speaker 1: What like fries?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Seven million servings a week? This is seven million

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Speaker 2: servings a week.

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Speaker 1: Here, what does this say about us? Okaysh please do

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Speaker 1: better than that.

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Speaker 3: I would describe New Zealand cuisine as fantastic. It's almost

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Speaker 3: like the foundations of the best Italian cuisine. It's based

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Speaker 3: on incredibly beautiful fresh produce and ingredients with amazing, amazing

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Speaker 3: chefs who know just how to bring those ingredients to

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Speaker 3: the foe without you know, without overegging the pudding as

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Speaker 3: it were.

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Speaker 1: I like that, you see. That's better than chips.

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Speaker 2: Shift using Lord above.

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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thank you so much. Lovely to talk to

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Speaker 1: the pair of Trishes and Mark Says.

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Speaker 3: Read for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.

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Speaker 2: Listen live to news Talks it B from four pm weekdays,

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Speaker 2: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.