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Speaker 1: The Prime Minister's with us for this Monday morning. Good

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Speaker 1: to see you, Good morning, Mike, Good to be with you. Iran.

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Speaker 1: Is it legal, do you reckon?

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Speaker 2: Well, ultimately that's up to the Americans and the Israelis

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Speaker 2: to assert. I noticed in the UN Security Council they

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Speaker 2: invoked Article fifty one is the basis for the attacks

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Speaker 2: that they've launched. But let's be under no illusion. This

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Speaker 2: was not a regime that New Zealand has supported or

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Speaker 2: been in favor of for decades under successive governments. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's a regime that's brutally repressing its own people, killing

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Speaker 2: tens of thousands of murdering tens of thousands of people.

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Speaker 2: It's one that's actually been arming proxies and terrorism around

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Speaker 2: the world. And you know, we've had years of diplomacy

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Speaker 2: to try and manage the nuclear program and the ballistic

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Speaker 2: missile program as well, and to no effect. So you know,

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Speaker 2: we won't be mourning the loss of this leader.

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Speaker 1: Do you endorse the attacks?

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Speaker 2: Well, again, I understand why they're doing it, because they

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Speaker 2: are obviously, you know, making sure that Iran, which has

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Speaker 2: been threatening a lot of peace and security in the world,

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Speaker 2: is actually that stops and ultimately it's up to the

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Speaker 2: Iranian people now to determine what happens next and where

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Speaker 2: it goes to.

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Speaker 1: So what do you say to Helen Clark, why the stability?

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Speaker 2: Well? She I think she called my post disgraceful. I'd say,

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Speaker 2: what is disgraceful is a regime that actually kills its

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Speaker 2: own people and discriminately in the way that it has.

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Speaker 3: And as I said it, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Think New Zealand under successive governments have had a pretty

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Speaker 2: strong policy of condemning Iranian actions.

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Speaker 1: Can you understand? See, I think Hipkins is not far

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Speaker 1: behind her and the ideology that drives us the almost

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Speaker 1: unique set of circumstances with Iran is you can probably

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Speaker 1: argue it is illegal, but does anyone mourn that, or

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Speaker 1: does anyone take it anywhere or go anywhere? In other words,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're on the right side of history potentially.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I mean I can't presuppose what the the

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Speaker 2: US and Israeli's obviously made independent attacks, you know, so

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Speaker 2: we weren't informed about those beforehand or in advance or

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Speaker 2: any of that stuff. You know, they may well have

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Speaker 2: information that has informed the legal basis for those attacks

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Speaker 2: they have, as I said in voked Article fifty one

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Speaker 2: at the UN Security Council as a basis for that.

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Speaker 2: But I just think, you know, be under no illusions,

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Speaker 2: this was an evil regime. I mean, this is a

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Speaker 2: regime that has been incredibly destabilizing in the world, you know,

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Speaker 2: funding the hooties as Bola, lots of proxies all around

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Speaker 2: the world, causing huge amounts of pain and suffering and

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Speaker 2: loss of life internationally and also within its own state,

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Speaker 2: repressed its own people tremendously over that period of time,

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Speaker 2: and so you know, I just I think, let's be clear,

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Speaker 2: New Zealand has condemned this regime for a long period

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Speaker 2: of time.

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Speaker 1: Just before we leave the Americans, when we talked last week,

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Speaker 1: we weren't quite sure what was going on with the

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Speaker 1: tariffs that was coming in at fifteen percent. Turns out,

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Speaker 1: apparently seemingly it's ten. So we materially win out of that,

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Speaker 1: don't we bee from key thru to mean it was

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Speaker 1: fifteen it is nine ten?

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I think we need to let the dust

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Speaker 2: sort of settle a little bit because under that law

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Speaker 2: that's for one hundred and fifty days, we need to

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Speaker 2: see where that goes to. But yes, that's my understanding

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Speaker 2: as well, that we'll be down five. You know, we've

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Speaker 2: actually improved things by five points. But it's just a

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Speaker 2: very chaotic environment as you can understand. And but what

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Speaker 2: has been good, as I said, you know last week,

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Speaker 2: is that, you know, I'm really impressed, honestly, Mike, that

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Speaker 2: I think our capability of our exporterers has got a

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Speaker 2: hell of a lot better in the last few years.

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Speaker 2: And there are I've literally watched them move production out

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Speaker 2: of the US, put it into Europe, move it from there,

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Speaker 2: put it into China, and that that that literacy and

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Speaker 2: that fluency to be able.

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Speaker 1: To do that is really good. Actually speaking, which India

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Speaker 1: came out with the GDP number for the last quarter

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Speaker 1: over the weekend and I can't remember what it was

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Speaker 1: now seven point eight or something was higher and everyone exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so the point is, are we any further down

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Speaker 1: the track than we were a week ago with labor?

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Speaker 1: Is this thing going to get done or not?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Look, I think it will.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think McLay and O'Connor have had good

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Speaker 2: series of engagements as I understand.

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Speaker 3: I think it's quite you know, we'll be able to

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Speaker 3: deal with their issues.

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Speaker 2: Or concerns along the way. I'm sure, And I think

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you've got two men

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Speaker 2: who have actually been the trade ministers for the last

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Speaker 2: eleven years in this country, who actually understand the opportunity

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Speaker 2: that sits here.

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Speaker 1: What does Seymour know about in New Zealand, as he

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Speaker 1: alluded to over the weekend, What what what deep dark

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Speaker 1: secrets within near New Zealand does David Seymour have?

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Speaker 2: Well, like I think on in New Zealand, what I'd

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Speaker 2: say is now, that was a terrible result, no doubt

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 3: It was abysmal. And yeah, they just need to get

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Speaker 3: back to basics.

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Speaker 2: They need to be able to get back to running

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Speaker 2: a schedule that customers want, need to get the aircraft

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Speaker 2: working on time. They need to make sure they've got

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Speaker 2: competitive price single and to improve the financial and operational

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Speaker 2: performance of that business. And it's good to see the

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Speaker 2: new CEO on the board committing to do exactly that.

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Speaker 2: Do you know him, I've got to numb a little

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Speaker 2: bit to us. He wasn't there when I was there.

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Speaker 2: You've got faith in them, yeah, Well, I mean you

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Speaker 2: have to back them and you have to believe that

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Speaker 2: they can do it. I mean, we've done it before.

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Speaker 2: Running an airline is a hard business. But you've just

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Speaker 2: seen a Quantus result that's absolutely standing operating in a

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Speaker 2: similar part of the words.

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Speaker 1: That's the part I don't understand, because I'm not an

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Speaker 1: expert like you or him. But what I do know

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Speaker 1: is that so if you look at Guitar, you look

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Speaker 1: at Emirates, you look at Singapore, you look at Quantus,

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Speaker 1: they are making shit loads of money. It's been airlines

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Speaker 1: in the industry, and our national Airligne cannot turn a

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Speaker 1: dollar to save itself. I get the engine problem, I

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Speaker 1: get all of that. I understand it. But even if

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Speaker 1: you add their number was ninety million, they said the

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Speaker 1: fifty five compensation that got add the ninety the ninety

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Speaker 1: still doesn't give you a number that you're proud of. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think something wrong with the airline.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the point is relative to the

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Speaker 2: airlines performances, which is what you'd be wanting to look.

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Speaker 3: At as a CEO there you'd say this is a

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Speaker 3: poor result.

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Speaker 2: You know, as I said, when Quanas has got great

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Speaker 2: belief very strongly in the New Zealand economies going to

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Speaker 2: place as they're investing and growing. There's no reason why

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Speaker 2: New Zealand can't.

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Speaker 1: They tuned around relatively quickly. If you look at the

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Speaker 1: dark days of quantits and where they are now, that's

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Speaker 1: a quick turnaround. Why why can't we make a quick

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Speaker 1: turn around? I'm asking you mainly, not only as a

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Speaker 1: next CEO, but mainly is the bulk shareholder here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's why I look at it and go,

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Speaker 2: there's that that business needs to improve its financial and

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Speaker 2: operational performance?

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Speaker 1: Can it do it?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Is there enough urgency and commitment from the board

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Speaker 2: and the CEO? It seems that there is. They're saying

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Speaker 2: there and for that strategic reset. Airlines need to be constant.

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Speaker 2: They are hard businesses to run. But actually you don't.

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Speaker 2: You don't blame others for it. You've got to fix

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Speaker 2: what you can control and control what you can do. Right.

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Speaker 1: When you say the strategic reset, I mean and I

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Speaker 1: talked to Nicol about it last week, So surely that

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Speaker 1: had strategic resets because this didn't happen yesterday. So on

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Speaker 1: the reset, why didn't they improve? How many resets do

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Speaker 1: you need without improving before You've not done the do

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Speaker 1: you sit right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, like I mean, I lead it for seven

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Speaker 2: years and I know, you know, you just yeah, you

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Speaker 2: have your strategic plan and you just keep you know,

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Speaker 2: that's implementing it right and executing it and improving it.

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Speaker 2: As a business, you want to be continually improving. So

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Speaker 2: they've got to go back and look at you know,

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Speaker 2: have we got the right product and the service that

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Speaker 2: we're offering our customers and other customers happy with what

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Speaker 2: we're doing or not. They've got to ask some serious

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Speaker 2: questions about why their financial returns aren't as good as

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Speaker 2: any other other airlines around the world when it's boom times,

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Speaker 2: and you've got to ask the questions about operational performance,

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Speaker 2: you know, like you know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: the customer wants to know the schedules working, the planes

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Speaker 2: run on time, and they're getting fear pricing.

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Speaker 1: The numbers he gave me, which I thought were interesting,

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Speaker 1: which is where you guys come in landing charges up

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Speaker 1: eighty five percent I think was this number against inflation

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Speaker 1: of thirty ish. As the chief shareholder of that airline,

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Speaker 1: why are you allowing cost plus accounting in certain areas

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Speaker 1: of this country that isn't necessary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I'd sort of back it up a little

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Speaker 2: bit and say, look, if you look at air fares,

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Speaker 2: you know what are the big drivers of it will

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Speaker 2: certainly fuels number one. Labor costs are probably number two,

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Speaker 2: Aircraft maintenance and leasing ownership costs at number three, maintenance four.

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Speaker 2: And then you might get to to he's making excuses

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Speaker 2: nor Wold, Well, I just think there's a lot you

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Speaker 2: can do in the core part of the business. Equally,

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Speaker 2: you've got a quantis that's operating with airports with similar

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Speaker 2: pricing charges across Australia and New Zealand, a similar regulatory

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Speaker 2: environment's doing well. So I would say, yep, we can

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Speaker 2: probably look at the regime. Have we got the settings right?

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Speaker 2: It hasn't been a priority of this term. Could we

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Speaker 2: look in the future, probably yep. But the bigger issue

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Speaker 2: is actually perform the base, get back to basics and

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Speaker 2: make sure that business is performing it.

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Speaker 1: You can't tell them though, can you, And don't go

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Speaker 1: down not this term thing.

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Speaker 2: I think New Zealanders would want us to sell listen,

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Speaker 2: and I just don't think it's I think it's a

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Speaker 2: strategic as set that actually I think New Zealanders would say, look,

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Speaker 2: you know we're a small country. You know, five million

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Speaker 2: people in a world of eight billion, one hundred and

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Speaker 2: ney five actually having an airline like we've had, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you just look at last twenty years, I think

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Speaker 2: government ownership of any Zealand's been actually a good thing.

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Speaker 2: I think actually the fifty to fifty model of mixed

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Speaker 2: ownership model works really well.

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Speaker 1: If you don't have an airline, you don't have a country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the country, like ours, we need

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Speaker 2: to have any So I can't see, you know that

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Speaker 2: that would be something that we would pursue, but at all.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing I'd say to you is like

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Speaker 2: I heard some people calling for us to sell it now,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, well, you know, just as a business

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Speaker 2: guy on any air set, I mean, given your fine

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Speaker 2: car collection, like, I'm sure you wouldn't sell it for

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Speaker 2: it appreciated all of a sudden or now if you've

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Speaker 2: had a bad financial performance. That's not the times the

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Speaker 2: guy sell an asset, right. But I just don't think

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Speaker 2: the New Zealanders would be up for that. And I

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Speaker 2: think it's it's been a it positive for us in general.

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Speaker 1: The Issues poll that's out this morning, inflation, cost of

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Speaker 1: living is owned by labor, healthcare is owned by labor.

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Speaker 1: The economy is at tie. Now you own crime and law,

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Speaker 1: labor own housing and price. Is this just a grumpy

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Speaker 1: electorate because I refuse to believe that the people who

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Speaker 1: ran this country between particularly twenty twenty and twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: somehow know about the economy. I mean, that's yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, I mean I think, I mean, I like, there's

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Speaker 2: so many polls every week. To be honest, Mike, I

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Speaker 2: don't sort of comment on them, but you know, there's

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Speaker 2: no doubt about it. It's been a tough time and

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Speaker 2: there's still a tough time for some Kiwis, and cost

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Speaker 2: of living as a function when you've had years of

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Speaker 2: high end FLA. The issue is, even though we've got

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Speaker 2: inflation in the band, people still feel life is expensive,

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Speaker 2: right because those prices have been baked in, that the

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Speaker 2: inflation from previous years is baked in. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't think the answer is going back to what

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Speaker 2: was proposed by the Labor administration that put us into

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Speaker 2: this mess, which has spent more, tax.

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Speaker 1: More, borrow more. Is it possible we have so many

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Speaker 1: people who are beneficiaries in this country. And I don't

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Speaker 1: mean pure beneficiaries, but the recipient of some state funding

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Speaker 1: that if you promise them more state funding, that's good

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Speaker 1: enough for them. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: All I know is I have to be fixated single

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Speaker 2: money and growing the economy. And when you grow the

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Speaker 2: economy and you get wages growing faster than inflation, which

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Speaker 2: actually has been the story of our governments. Actually over

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Speaker 2: the last two years, we have been able to get

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Speaker 2: wage growth faster than inflation, which has been good because

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Speaker 2: you remember, when inflation was at seven point three percent,

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Speaker 2: wages weren't keeping up with that, and people are going.

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Speaker 3: Backwards by default. So you know, that's what we've just

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Speaker 3: got to focus on as growth.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when I look at it now and

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Speaker 2: you see business confidence, consumer confidence, you know, growth and

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Speaker 2: manufacturing that's looking very positive. You know, we've got a

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Speaker 2: lot of things coming, but I get it, people still

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Speaker 2: need to feel it, and I think that's what some

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Speaker 2: of this this this is what people are playing.

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Speaker 1: Back good too good to take Prime Minister Christaba Luxen.

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Speaker 3: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 3: news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio,