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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks.

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Speaker 2: That'd be and it's time to catch up with clinical

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Speaker 2: psychologist Google Sutherland from Umbrella well Being, who's been looking

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Speaker 2: at some really interesting research that shows that listening to

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Speaker 2: bird song may benefit your mental health and improve sadness

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Speaker 2: and depression. Googles with us this morning, get a cure

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Speaker 2: to Jack.

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Speaker 3: How are you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very well, thank you. It's funny. Oh, this is

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Speaker 2: one of those things that can you can imagine people

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Speaker 2: are just like right off as being kind of trivial,

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Speaker 2: but then if you think about it for a moment,

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Speaker 2: you think, actually, yeah, it kind of makes sense that

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Speaker 2: listening to bird song might make me feel a bit better.

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Speaker 2: So tell us about this research.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So the research came out. They got people who

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Speaker 3: were both depressed and not depressed, and then, as we

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Speaker 3: want to do in psychology land, we made them feel

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Speaker 3: even worse by evoking sadness in them by playing them

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Speaker 3: through really sad movie clips, so that they not only

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Speaker 3: are you depressed, but now we're making you feel really

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Speaker 3: sad on top of that as well. So they made

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Speaker 3: people feel sad, and then what can we do to

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Speaker 3: relieve the sadness. They get. One group they trained them

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Speaker 3: in mindfulness and the other group they just exposed them

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Speaker 3: to listening to bird songs, and both both groups benefited

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Speaker 3: and and actually for the bird song people, they also

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Speaker 3: their heart rates the physiological heart rates were improved as well.

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Speaker 3: So it seems that was good for the heart and

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Speaker 3: for the good for the mind and the body as well.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting. So when they were playing it, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you have this detail, do you know if

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Speaker 2: they were playing them recordings or if they were just

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Speaker 2: sitting them outside.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, that no, no, they were playing I

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Speaker 3: believe they were playing it was live bird song. Adding

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, so I think they were actually, you know,

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Speaker 3: out there listening to birds. I think it was a

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Speaker 3: confined environment in terms of you know, they had to

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Speaker 3: they were in like an avery or something like that.

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Speaker 3: But it was it was live bird song from what

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Speaker 3: I can what I can make out, I.

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Speaker 2: Wonder how you can differentiate between listening to bird song

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Speaker 2: and then singing.

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Speaker 3: Birds or yeah, yeah they do. But it's interesting. One

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Speaker 3: of the things they kind of thought was to that, yes,

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Speaker 3: both are good, the mindfulness and the listening to birds,

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Speaker 3: but sometimes if you're really deeply depressed, then having energy

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Speaker 3: to do anything, including engaging in psychological therapy, can be

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Speaker 3: a real you know, it can be more than you know,

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Speaker 3: more than what you're able to do. And so so

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Speaker 3: mindfulness is obviously a very sort of deliberate sort of

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Speaker 3: skill that you that you kind of got to put

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Speaker 3: into place, whereas listening to bird song is quite a

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Speaker 3: passive thing. You don't have to really do anything. It

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Speaker 3: just you know, you just sit there and listen, and

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Speaker 3: and and so it could be a useful sort of

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I'd be betting every betting the house

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Speaker 3: on it, but you could certainly add it in. There's

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Speaker 3: something that people can do just be exposed to you

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Speaker 3: don't You can just sit there and listen. You don't

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Speaker 3: have to do anything, which might be quite a relief

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Speaker 3: if your feeling particularly down, you know, and you just

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Speaker 3: don't have that energy. So yeah, I thought I thought

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Speaker 3: it was an encouraging sort of and and and I

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Speaker 3: hues of sort of going back to nature in a way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean it's a yeah, like

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Speaker 2: I said, it feels kind of intuitive. It's funny. I

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Speaker 2: have been finding without eight months old then when he

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Speaker 2: gets really upset. He has he gets really upset from

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Speaker 2: time to time, and especially in the evenings at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, and he'll scream down the house

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Speaker 2: and that kind of thing. And often I have been

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Speaker 2: picking him up from his high tear or wherever he is,

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Speaker 2: taking him outside and just like giving him two minutes

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Speaker 2: with you know, being outdoors and kind of looking at

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Speaker 2: a tree or something like that. Yeah, it's amazing the

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Speaker 2: extent where it calms them down.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it. It's like it

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Speaker 3: feels like we've kind of lost touch with some of

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Speaker 3: those the benefits of nature as we become more more urban.

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Speaker 3: And I realized for some people it's you know, if

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Speaker 3: you're living in a block of flats or an apartment,

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Speaker 3: it is really difficult to get to that. In the UK,

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Speaker 3: they do things like green prescriptions, where they'll, you know,

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Speaker 3: they'll they'll they'll give you a prescription to go out

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Speaker 3: and they do things like, you know, tell you to

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Speaker 3: go fishing and you know, just out there and be active.

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Speaker 3: But just because of the real benefit there seems to

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Speaker 3: be just from being out in nature.

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Speaker 2: I find the same thing, like if I even it

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Speaker 2: can be something so simple as well. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to be like in a perfect unspoiled native bush or

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Speaker 2: anything like, even if I just got into the backyard

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Speaker 2: and do a little bit of gardening honestly, a little

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Speaker 2: bit of weeding with you know, with a good iHeart

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Speaker 2: podcast or something. And I'm yeah, it's amazing how it

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Speaker 2: kind of has that Yeah, it is a yeah.

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Speaker 3: And there was a big study in New Zealand actually

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Speaker 3: about the benefits of fishing too, Like they touted it

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Speaker 3: as the biggest study in the world looking at the

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Speaker 3: benefits of fishing for for mental health, and they found

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Speaker 3: that really, you know, improved people's mood, reduced anxiety, reduced

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Speaker 3: psychological distress, and you know, they were going out and

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Speaker 3: just just fishing. And I think there's really something in that,

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Speaker 3: isn't there about getting back into nature and getting that

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Speaker 3: contact with nature that we seem to be losing a

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Speaker 3: bit as we become more urbanized.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I wonder too if it's just it's kind of

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Speaker 2: like mindfulness without knowing it, you know, not being yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, we've tricked you into being mindful.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're just you're just focusing on one thing

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Speaker 3: that's all you're aware of, You're it's it's it's just

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Speaker 3: a calm sort of content place that you're connecting with. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I agree. I think there's some sort of strong overlaps

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Speaker 3: with those sorts of things that it's very much about.

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Speaker 3: And there is something that we get from being in nature.

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Speaker 3: You know, thirty minutes I did hear thirty minutes a

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Speaker 3: day is if you or not a day, but little

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Speaker 3: spells of thirty minutes in nature if you really want

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Speaker 3: to optimize your your the benefit that you get from

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Speaker 3: being out there, little little blocks of thirty minutes and

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Speaker 3: at least three hours a week is the ideal apparently.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, thirty minutes a day that that's like maybe achievable.

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Speaker 2: I think that's yeah.

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Speaker 3: And it doesn't have to be every day just you know,

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Speaker 3: as you said before, you know, but a gardening or

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Speaker 3: you might go for a walk or and it doesn't

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Speaker 3: have to be every day, but trying to get sort

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Speaker 3: of around three three and a half hours per week

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Speaker 3: and doing that in blocks of thirty seems to be

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Speaker 3: better than just sort of a quick five minute I mean,

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Speaker 3: five minutes is fine, you know, but if you really

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Speaker 3: want to get the maximize benefit out out of it.

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Speaker 3: At least a thirty minute burst outside in nature apparently

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Speaker 3: is really is what we're looking for. So that's great.

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Speaker 2: Hey, thank you so much, Dogle. I appreciate it as always.

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Speaker 2: Google someone from Umbrella Well Being. Yeah, it does feel

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Speaker 2: like it makes sense. But if you are looking for

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Speaker 2: an excuse to ask for a second bird feeder for Christmas,

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Speaker 2: maybe this could be just it. Right, track a few

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Speaker 2: more birds in the backyard. It's good for everyone.

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Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live

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Speaker 1: to news talks that'd be from nine am Saturday, or

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