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Speaker 1: Heather, do now, speaking of businesses, do you remember those

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Speaker 1: small business loans that Grant and just Sinder handed out

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Speaker 1: at the heights of the Pandemic in twenty twenty. Well,

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Speaker 1: they were all supposed to be paid back within five years,

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Speaker 1: which means they're coming up. Do you write about now?

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Speaker 1: But there's still about nine hundred million outstanding. Chris Small

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Speaker 1: is managing director at ABC Business Sales and with US.

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Speaker 2: Now, hey, Chris, hey, here here are you going?

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Speaker 1: I'm very well? Thank you. Now, if nine hundred million

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Speaker 1: is still paid back, and it was also is still

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Speaker 1: outstanding and it was all supposed to be paid back

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Speaker 1: within five years, I would say a lot of that

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Speaker 1: is not coming in.

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Speaker 2: Is it your spot on? Yeah, it's very unlikely. And

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Speaker 2: given the security position that the government had, it was

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Speaker 2: actually unsecured loan, so they're not walking on particularly strong

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Speaker 2: footing when it comes to trying to receive it either.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what's gone on here? Have the businesses folded?

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Speaker 1: Have they just decided they're not going to pay it back?

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Speaker 2: What? Well, when you think about it, when it was

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Speaker 2: first off it was interest free for a year and

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Speaker 2: then it moved to three percent after that for next

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Speaker 2: four years. Generally, an unsecured business loan will be it

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Speaker 2: anywhere from sort of goodness eight to twelve percent, So

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Speaker 2: of course everyone was going to take it if you're

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Speaker 2: a sensible business person. And then I suspect that they've

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Speaker 2: just really put their heads in the sand and just

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Speaker 2: pretend it's not there, because three percent, there's not a

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Speaker 2: lot to be paying back on an interest only basis,

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Speaker 2: And there's probably also a few of them that are

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Speaker 2: probably not no longer around because at the high proportion

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Speaker 2: of these businesses with sold traders and businesses with fewer

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Speaker 2: than six full time staff.

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Speaker 1: It's not as if we've left things for five years.

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Speaker 1: Is It's not like we said, here's your money in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty and then we're going to leave it. There

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Speaker 1: has been some contact with these people, hasn't.

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Speaker 2: It, Yes, But minimal I think, you know, really they

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Speaker 2: put the government put there, especially the previous going to

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Speaker 2: put their head in the sand through this.

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Speaker 1: Money possible, Chris, if there's been minimal contact, is it

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Speaker 1: possible that some of these people just forgot and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, oh jeez, yeah, I've got to pay

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Speaker 1: the money back.

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Speaker 2: Here it is I suspect will strong to suspect that's

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Speaker 2: a very small proportion. I suspect they will struggle to

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Speaker 2: get the majority of this money back because either a

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Speaker 2: they can't afford it. Be what you remember as a

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Speaker 2: business owner is more than like you're going to have

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Speaker 2: a home loan mortgage, so that'll take priority because if

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Speaker 2: he doesn't pay that, the bank will come in and

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Speaker 2: take his house. Yeah, the government doesn't have the ability

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Speaker 2: to do that. They don't have a personal guarantee, they

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Speaker 2: don't have a mortgage on his business or his house.

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Speaker 2: So they're going to be a lot lower in the

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Speaker 2: pecking order when it comes to who a business owner

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Speaker 2: decides to pay that. And that's if they're still around.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can't believe that I'm actually saying this.

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Speaker 1: But we've learned a lesson, haven't we? As if we

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Speaker 1: did as if we learned needed to learn this lesson,

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Speaker 1: we have learned a lesson here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've learned the hard way. That's nine hundred million

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Speaker 2: that potentially could go towards hospitals, education, lots of other

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Speaker 2: good stuff. But in the end, we we basically gave

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Speaker 2: it away.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Chris, this is one oh one about lending money.

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Speaker 1: You make sure it's secured. You know, you lend a

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Speaker 1: reasonable rate. So this is this is going to be

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Speaker 1: one of the dumbest things that you've seen happened.

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Speaker 2: Surely, well absolutely, I mean, who wouldn't take the money

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Speaker 2: interest free for the first and then moves to three

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Speaker 2: percent and it's unsecured. I mean I would have. We

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Speaker 2: didn't take any because we were I guess we've got

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Speaker 2: to act with ethics and integrity, but I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of New Zealanders would have taken that and who

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Speaker 2: knows what a what they did with the money, and

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Speaker 2: b who knows where they are now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty remarkable. Chris, Thank you very much, really appreciated.

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Speaker 1: Chris Small, Managing director, ABC Business Sales. For more from

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Speaker 1: Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd

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Speaker 1: be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.