1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,853 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks EDB. Follow this 2 00:00:13,053 --> 00:00:20,493 Speaker 1: and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio Sight Down the. 3 00:00:20,493 --> 00:00:29,333 Speaker 2: Middle, Try. 4 00:00:28,693 --> 00:00:33,213 Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct 5 00:00:33,333 --> 00:00:37,053 Speaker 1: with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB. 6 00:00:37,533 --> 00:00:41,013 Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Exis Solutions, celebrating twenty 7 00:00:41,133 --> 00:00:45,733 Speaker 2: five years in business. We are in Chicago still Elliott 8 00:00:45,733 --> 00:00:48,413 Speaker 2: Smith with me Liam Napier as we mop up the 9 00:00:48,453 --> 00:00:52,053 Speaker 2: All Blacks win recording on a beautiful Sunday morning. There's 10 00:00:52,093 --> 00:00:54,693 Speaker 2: some sort of marathon going on in the street around us. 11 00:00:55,293 --> 00:00:56,813 Speaker 2: I don't know if you've had a look or joined 12 00:00:56,853 --> 00:00:59,373 Speaker 2: in for it. We sort of five k or something 13 00:00:59,413 --> 00:01:02,613 Speaker 2: like that. But you know, the Daylight Savings ended here. 14 00:01:02,693 --> 00:01:06,053 Speaker 2: But it's been been a great week in Chicago, and 15 00:01:06,133 --> 00:01:08,853 Speaker 2: even bitter week for the All Blacks, Liam, who emerge 16 00:01:08,893 --> 00:01:14,013 Speaker 2: twenty six to thirteen winners. Of course, over Ireland wasn't perfect, 17 00:01:14,453 --> 00:01:17,373 Speaker 2: and for sixty minutes it was looking fairly dire in 18 00:01:17,453 --> 00:01:21,893 Speaker 2: terms of the performance but also a spectacle in many regards. 19 00:01:22,333 --> 00:01:24,093 Speaker 2: But the All Blacks kicked home in the last twenty 20 00:01:24,093 --> 00:01:29,253 Speaker 2: minutes with a really good last quarter performance that maybe 21 00:01:29,773 --> 00:01:31,813 Speaker 2: you know, even might even be the best twenty minutes 22 00:01:31,813 --> 00:01:34,853 Speaker 2: of the Scott Robertson era, to be honest. So top 23 00:01:34,853 --> 00:01:37,573 Speaker 2: line thoughts, what did you make of the Soldier Field 24 00:01:37,573 --> 00:01:38,333 Speaker 2: game for the All Blacks. 25 00:01:39,013 --> 00:01:42,053 Speaker 3: Well, the final impression you have to is last thing, 26 00:01:42,093 --> 00:01:43,933 Speaker 3: isn't it the way the All Blacks finished that game 27 00:01:44,333 --> 00:01:47,213 Speaker 3: scoring three tries It could have been four but for 28 00:01:47,453 --> 00:01:51,093 Speaker 3: a four pass. So they really dismantled Ireland and that 29 00:01:51,213 --> 00:01:55,373 Speaker 3: last quarter came over the top of them. And from 30 00:01:55,413 --> 00:01:58,053 Speaker 3: a fitness perspective as well, I'm not sure if the 31 00:01:58,413 --> 00:02:01,813 Speaker 3: red card had a factor there. Maybe Ireland coming in cold. 32 00:02:03,213 --> 00:02:05,253 Speaker 3: I think the All Blacks pre match were confident that 33 00:02:05,293 --> 00:02:08,293 Speaker 3: they were going to have superior fitness and that certain 34 00:02:08,573 --> 00:02:11,853 Speaker 3: showed prior to that. I've got to be honest, I 35 00:02:11,853 --> 00:02:14,933 Speaker 3: did not see that last quarter coming. The All Blacks 36 00:02:14,973 --> 00:02:18,253 Speaker 3: were really erratic, lots of erarors. I think at one 37 00:02:18,253 --> 00:02:21,693 Speaker 3: point they conceded ten straight penalties. They were getting penalized 38 00:02:21,693 --> 00:02:27,013 Speaker 3: for backchat at one point, and nothing was really going right. 39 00:02:27,053 --> 00:02:30,173 Speaker 3: I know they had a number of injury, setbacks and disruptions, 40 00:02:30,253 --> 00:02:34,173 Speaker 3: but it was I was sitting there thinking, this is 41 00:02:34,173 --> 00:02:36,053 Speaker 3: their tenth tests of the year. They've had a week 42 00:02:36,093 --> 00:02:37,853 Speaker 3: and a half to prepare for this game. Island and 43 00:02:37,853 --> 00:02:39,973 Speaker 3: a crimlin and cold, and yet it's the All Black set. 44 00:02:40,013 --> 00:02:42,093 Speaker 3: Looked like they've been stuck in the garage too long. 45 00:02:42,173 --> 00:02:44,613 Speaker 2: But your it's not like Ireland looked any better. In 46 00:02:44,653 --> 00:02:48,933 Speaker 2: all honesty, No they didn't. And for that sixty minutes, 47 00:02:49,133 --> 00:02:51,493 Speaker 2: perhaps a better team would have taken advantage of the 48 00:02:51,493 --> 00:02:54,973 Speaker 2: All Blacks, you know, not being able to stringk phases together, 49 00:02:55,213 --> 00:02:59,893 Speaker 2: conceding a number of penalties. But Islands looked cold. They 50 00:02:59,893 --> 00:03:03,613 Speaker 2: looked old. I thought at times, so a lot of 51 00:03:03,613 --> 00:03:09,013 Speaker 2: those players and lacked any ingenuity in chums in terms 52 00:03:09,053 --> 00:03:12,173 Speaker 2: of trying to attack the All Blacks. So take fo 53 00:03:12,253 --> 00:03:14,853 Speaker 2: long scores in the first half, but really it never 54 00:03:14,893 --> 00:03:18,853 Speaker 2: felt like I threatened too often after that. In all honesty, 55 00:03:18,933 --> 00:03:21,733 Speaker 2: they managed to accumulate a couple of penalties. But I 56 00:03:21,733 --> 00:03:24,293 Speaker 2: thought Islands didn't take advantage of what the All Blacks 57 00:03:24,293 --> 00:03:25,933 Speaker 2: were serving up. No they didn't. 58 00:03:25,973 --> 00:03:28,373 Speaker 3: I mean, you got to give them credit for managing 59 00:03:28,853 --> 00:03:31,493 Speaker 3: a twenty minute period one man short. They won that 60 00:03:31,533 --> 00:03:35,333 Speaker 3: They're up ten to seven at halftime. I think if 61 00:03:35,333 --> 00:03:38,253 Speaker 3: we deal with that red card in the first instance, 62 00:03:38,293 --> 00:03:41,813 Speaker 3: I thought it was harsh. Yep, it was a extremely 63 00:03:41,853 --> 00:03:44,613 Speaker 3: poorly handled. It took I don't know how long, but 64 00:03:44,693 --> 00:03:46,653 Speaker 3: the first half took fifty two minutes. And that was 65 00:03:46,693 --> 00:03:51,893 Speaker 3: a big factory when you can just give a yellow 66 00:03:51,933 --> 00:03:55,053 Speaker 3: card and decided off the field. I couldn't believe how 67 00:03:55,053 --> 00:03:57,253 Speaker 3: long it took. They couldn't show the replay on the 68 00:03:57,253 --> 00:04:00,013 Speaker 3: big screen. They went off and did a var football style. 69 00:04:00,733 --> 00:04:04,173 Speaker 3: It was a shambles get into that decision. And I 70 00:04:04,213 --> 00:04:08,613 Speaker 3: thought it was harsh. It was a forward pass. Tug 71 00:04:08,653 --> 00:04:11,093 Speaker 3: Burn had no time to react. There wasn't a lot 72 00:04:11,093 --> 00:04:14,853 Speaker 3: of force involved. There's certainly no intents. I understand the 73 00:04:14,933 --> 00:04:18,773 Speaker 3: rules around shot shoulder to the head, but I thought 74 00:04:18,813 --> 00:04:22,093 Speaker 3: yellow car would would have been sufficient. But you are right, 75 00:04:22,973 --> 00:04:27,573 Speaker 3: Islands were largely predictable. They didn't throw a great deal 76 00:04:27,613 --> 00:04:30,533 Speaker 3: of surprises at the All Blacks. Wasn't really any special 77 00:04:30,573 --> 00:04:35,333 Speaker 3: plays up their sleeve. And yeah, I guess the narrative 78 00:04:35,373 --> 00:04:40,093 Speaker 3: around Islands being tired, being old, been on the decline 79 00:04:40,213 --> 00:04:42,573 Speaker 3: after going from first to third, and the six Nations 80 00:04:43,533 --> 00:04:45,493 Speaker 3: came to the fore, didn't they, Because as you say, 81 00:04:46,253 --> 00:04:51,093 Speaker 3: you know, the All Blacks were decidedly poor and Ireland 82 00:04:51,133 --> 00:04:53,973 Speaker 3: did not take advantage of that. Jack Crowley missed one 83 00:04:54,213 --> 00:04:57,333 Speaker 3: penalties too that would have put Island up by nine points. 84 00:04:57,653 --> 00:05:00,333 Speaker 3: Maybe that would have had a bit more scoreboard pressure, 85 00:05:00,373 --> 00:05:05,413 Speaker 3: but they just they never really could put their foot 86 00:05:05,453 --> 00:05:07,253 Speaker 3: on the throat, and the All Blacks were making so 87 00:05:07,373 --> 00:05:08,213 Speaker 3: many eras. 88 00:05:08,813 --> 00:05:11,693 Speaker 2: They stayed in the fight in spite of themselves at 89 00:05:11,733 --> 00:05:13,893 Speaker 2: many times that they fold. They couldn't string phases together, 90 00:05:13,933 --> 00:05:18,093 Speaker 2: were conceding penalties, weren't building pressure and able to enter 91 00:05:18,573 --> 00:05:21,413 Speaker 2: the Irish twenty two often enough until that sixty minute 92 00:05:21,413 --> 00:05:24,493 Speaker 2: mark when they basically just took off into the stratosphere 93 00:05:24,653 --> 00:05:28,653 Speaker 2: on that red card. I think it signified in many 94 00:05:28,693 --> 00:05:32,053 Speaker 2: ways I'm always the one the troubles that Rugby's got. 95 00:05:32,133 --> 00:05:35,013 Speaker 2: I mean, that was a fastically long wait to reach 96 00:05:35,053 --> 00:05:38,773 Speaker 2: the yellow card threshold decision. Now there was a chick 97 00:05:38,853 --> 00:05:41,573 Speaker 2: check call from Ian ten piece to TMO. They couldn't 98 00:05:41,573 --> 00:05:43,933 Speaker 2: get it on the big screen at that point. Peerbrew 99 00:05:43,973 --> 00:05:45,493 Speaker 2: Sitter is on field referee. He needs to take some 100 00:05:45,493 --> 00:05:47,173 Speaker 2: ownership and go, okay, we're gonna get it the big screen. 101 00:05:47,173 --> 00:05:49,053 Speaker 2: What's your advice? What's your advice to me? Is it 102 00:05:49,053 --> 00:05:52,533 Speaker 2: a yellow card? Bang? Done? Wasted so much time? Get 103 00:05:52,573 --> 00:05:54,253 Speaker 2: on with it. Yeah, and they were trying to get 104 00:05:54,293 --> 00:05:56,573 Speaker 2: this on the big screen, get that fix in the background. 105 00:05:56,573 --> 00:05:59,813 Speaker 2: This is a spectacle, This is entertainment, and for too 106 00:05:59,893 --> 00:06:03,453 Speaker 2: many games rugby wastes its time and legallyes that is 107 00:06:03,493 --> 00:06:07,213 Speaker 2: not interesting to the spectators who have already made up 108 00:06:07,213 --> 00:06:09,533 Speaker 2: their own minds having seen the play, probably at home. 109 00:06:11,333 --> 00:06:13,813 Speaker 2: And then you look at the yellow card red card itself. 110 00:06:14,333 --> 00:06:17,253 Speaker 2: What are we doing here? There's nothing that Tiger Boone 111 00:06:17,293 --> 00:06:21,853 Speaker 2: could do to change his line to effect a lower 112 00:06:21,893 --> 00:06:24,813 Speaker 2: tackle on Boden Barrett. It was a four parts from 113 00:06:25,133 --> 00:06:28,053 Speaker 2: regard to Barrett. I thought as well, so that should 114 00:06:28,133 --> 00:06:32,973 Speaker 2: mitigate what happens after it. And to a man, I've 115 00:06:33,013 --> 00:06:35,733 Speaker 2: not seen virtually anyone that suggests that it should be 116 00:06:36,413 --> 00:06:39,893 Speaker 2: a red card, and Rugby just got a tell once again, 117 00:06:40,053 --> 00:06:43,573 Speaker 2: tangled and knots around trying to avoid lawsuits rather than 118 00:06:43,573 --> 00:06:46,213 Speaker 2: actually playing the game that matters on the field at 119 00:06:46,253 --> 00:06:46,893 Speaker 2: that point in time. 120 00:06:47,253 --> 00:06:49,813 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like the Southern hemisphere is much better 121 00:06:49,933 --> 00:06:52,973 Speaker 3: at for shading with some form of common sense around 122 00:06:52,973 --> 00:06:56,493 Speaker 3: these things. And there is a massive difference between a 123 00:06:56,573 --> 00:07:00,893 Speaker 3: rugby incidents and foul play, and this was not really 124 00:07:00,933 --> 00:07:03,333 Speaker 3: foul play, as you say it was a split second 125 00:07:03,693 --> 00:07:07,293 Speaker 3: reactionary decision. He's basically he barely tackled him. He's just 126 00:07:07,733 --> 00:07:11,573 Speaker 3: he's up, Boden runs into him and yeah, there's a 127 00:07:11,573 --> 00:07:14,413 Speaker 3: bit of contact with the shoulder, but there's no force involved. 128 00:07:15,093 --> 00:07:17,413 Speaker 3: So just have a bit of common sense and put 129 00:07:17,493 --> 00:07:21,653 Speaker 3: it in a rugby lens rather than trying to, you know, 130 00:07:21,773 --> 00:07:26,293 Speaker 3: appease world rugby. And yeah, the head needs to be protected, 131 00:07:26,373 --> 00:07:32,413 Speaker 3: but this is a fast moving contact sports and you 132 00:07:32,493 --> 00:07:36,213 Speaker 3: do need to preserve the spectacle and just have a 133 00:07:36,253 --> 00:07:36,853 Speaker 3: bit of common stay. 134 00:07:37,093 --> 00:07:39,653 Speaker 2: I thought Paid lost control of their game from that 135 00:07:39,693 --> 00:07:43,813 Speaker 2: point onwards, and kind of his decision making I thought 136 00:07:43,853 --> 00:07:46,293 Speaker 2: was very bizarre at times. In the first half he 137 00:07:46,373 --> 00:07:49,813 Speaker 2: was happy to award free kicks at scrum time, and 138 00:07:49,853 --> 00:07:53,773 Speaker 2: then the second half he wasn't. He was resetting, reseitting, reseitting, 139 00:07:53,813 --> 00:07:56,013 Speaker 2: and the game had aready gone on lengthy at that point, 140 00:07:56,413 --> 00:07:58,853 Speaker 2: but he decided basically change his mind at halftime, going 141 00:07:58,853 --> 00:08:01,773 Speaker 2: from free kick can go, I'm not reseitting that to resetting. Oh. 142 00:08:01,773 --> 00:08:04,893 Speaker 2: I thought it was a pretty poor performance from the referee. 143 00:08:05,573 --> 00:08:06,973 Speaker 2: What if the All Blacks do well in that last 144 00:08:07,013 --> 00:08:10,613 Speaker 2: twenty minutes to be able to dismantle Island like they 145 00:08:10,613 --> 00:08:11,013 Speaker 2: did Limb. 146 00:08:11,493 --> 00:08:13,333 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot that goes into it, but I 147 00:08:13,373 --> 00:08:17,173 Speaker 3: think first and foremost impact from the bench, Well, when 148 00:08:17,173 --> 00:08:20,133 Speaker 3: you look at it in its entirety, you had lestifying 149 00:08:20,173 --> 00:08:23,933 Speaker 3: and knock who come on about the eighteenth sixteenth, eighteenth 150 00:08:24,013 --> 00:08:27,293 Speaker 3: minute for Jordy Barrett and make an immediate impression by 151 00:08:27,613 --> 00:08:30,933 Speaker 3: beating Gary Ringrose offloading Will Jordan to set up Artist 152 00:08:30,933 --> 00:08:33,853 Speaker 3: Severe's try. So I thought he was really good here. 153 00:08:33,973 --> 00:08:36,333 Speaker 3: Josh Lord come on in the third minute and play 154 00:08:36,413 --> 00:08:39,213 Speaker 3: seventy seven minutes. Can't remember the last time he did that. 155 00:08:39,733 --> 00:08:41,853 Speaker 3: The All Blackers line out struggled on their own ball, 156 00:08:41,893 --> 00:08:44,773 Speaker 3: but they dismantled Island's lineup, So a big tick I 157 00:08:44,773 --> 00:08:47,933 Speaker 3: think for Josh Lord's and then later in the match 158 00:08:48,533 --> 00:08:53,053 Speaker 3: Wallace the tt Hue in his dynamic ball carrying to 159 00:08:53,133 --> 00:08:57,813 Speaker 3: Mighty Williams overpowering the Irish scrum. I thought Pasilio Tossi 160 00:08:58,693 --> 00:09:01,733 Speaker 3: is a big mover in recent times for the All 161 00:09:01,773 --> 00:09:04,653 Speaker 3: Blacks and Damian McKenzie providing some real attacking sparks. So 162 00:09:05,493 --> 00:09:07,373 Speaker 3: there's been some real concerns around the world where the 163 00:09:07,373 --> 00:09:11,133 Speaker 3: All Blacks have finished games. But the bench had a 164 00:09:11,133 --> 00:09:13,853 Speaker 3: massive impact, and I think you have to give them 165 00:09:13,893 --> 00:09:19,213 Speaker 3: credit for remaining composed and being courageous in the way 166 00:09:19,253 --> 00:09:22,453 Speaker 3: they played. They I felt the All Blacks when it 167 00:09:22,533 --> 00:09:24,973 Speaker 3: wasn't going well, I was sort of going side to 168 00:09:25,013 --> 00:09:28,093 Speaker 3: side and quite lateral. They I think they were a 169 00:09:28,093 --> 00:09:30,493 Speaker 3: lot more direct and that ball carrying punch had a 170 00:09:30,493 --> 00:09:32,813 Speaker 3: massive impact. It freed up a lot of space, allowed 171 00:09:32,813 --> 00:09:36,373 Speaker 3: them to go wide, and they finished really well. It 172 00:09:36,413 --> 00:09:39,693 Speaker 3: was really clinical. So there's a number of factors there, 173 00:09:39,813 --> 00:09:43,373 Speaker 3: and it's great to see because Blecks have been under 174 00:09:43,373 --> 00:09:47,053 Speaker 3: pressure and they have really struggled in those final quarters, 175 00:09:47,093 --> 00:09:50,173 Speaker 3: probably for the entirety of Robertson's reign, really you have. 176 00:09:50,413 --> 00:09:53,413 Speaker 2: It's been an ongoing issue and it did It's one game, 177 00:09:53,453 --> 00:09:56,373 Speaker 2: but it feels like that was the blueprint for them 178 00:09:56,413 --> 00:09:59,293 Speaker 2: going forward. And I suppose immediately out of that, you go, 179 00:09:59,973 --> 00:10:02,373 Speaker 2: do we move lestifying a kookle into the starting side? 180 00:10:02,413 --> 00:10:05,413 Speaker 2: Do you you know, does watch the TV put pressure 181 00:10:05,413 --> 00:10:08,973 Speaker 2: on Peter Luckeye or sign Parker go back into that pack. 182 00:10:09,693 --> 00:10:11,933 Speaker 2: For me, I kind of want to see that bench 183 00:10:12,253 --> 00:10:15,013 Speaker 2: roll out again and have sixteen to twenty three own 184 00:10:15,613 --> 00:10:18,253 Speaker 2: that role. You aren't always going to be able to 185 00:10:18,293 --> 00:10:20,773 Speaker 2: roll out those same seven that's right, eight players. But 186 00:10:20,813 --> 00:10:24,093 Speaker 2: I kind of think that if you can develop a bench, 187 00:10:24,533 --> 00:10:26,373 Speaker 2: which is what Scott Robertson was trying to do last 188 00:10:26,453 --> 00:10:30,173 Speaker 2: year and didn't really get to it, then you can 189 00:10:30,253 --> 00:10:31,893 Speaker 2: do what we saw from the All Blacks in that 190 00:10:31,973 --> 00:10:34,333 Speaker 2: last twenty And that's what the hallmark of that All 191 00:10:34,373 --> 00:10:37,813 Speaker 2: Blacks era from twenty eleven to twenty sixteen was is 192 00:10:37,813 --> 00:10:41,173 Speaker 2: that they would have a very strong bench and absolutely 193 00:10:41,253 --> 00:10:43,373 Speaker 2: demolish you in the last twenty twenty five minutes of games. 194 00:10:43,373 --> 00:10:45,773 Speaker 2: And that's what they prided themselves on. We haven't really 195 00:10:45,773 --> 00:10:48,093 Speaker 2: seen that over to be honest, and that includes that 196 00:10:48,133 --> 00:10:49,973 Speaker 2: the Foster and the latter part of the Hanson era 197 00:10:50,093 --> 00:10:53,813 Speaker 2: that didn't really see that. So we hasten to be 198 00:10:53,933 --> 00:10:55,893 Speaker 2: too really going fine and look who must start, But 199 00:10:55,933 --> 00:10:58,093 Speaker 2: I think he's got to play a role at some 200 00:10:58,133 --> 00:11:00,013 Speaker 2: point in the match in the eighty he's got to 201 00:11:00,013 --> 00:11:00,653 Speaker 2: be in that team. 202 00:11:01,013 --> 00:11:03,333 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you'll point up there about the depth, So 203 00:11:03,453 --> 00:11:05,813 Speaker 3: the bench comes back to depth. Then that's probably been 204 00:11:05,853 --> 00:11:07,613 Speaker 3: whittled away. You know, when Neil Blacks are at their 205 00:11:07,613 --> 00:11:11,853 Speaker 3: peak on the hands, they had a phenomenal bench they're 206 00:11:11,853 --> 00:11:15,013 Speaker 3: bringing off you know, you think about the twenty fifteen 207 00:11:16,173 --> 00:11:18,653 Speaker 3: World Cut, Boden barretton and these sort of guys off 208 00:11:18,653 --> 00:11:21,373 Speaker 3: off the bench, So what a luxury to have. And 209 00:11:21,413 --> 00:11:24,893 Speaker 3: I guess Scott Robinson is starting to try and build 210 00:11:24,933 --> 00:11:27,773 Speaker 3: that four four four depth. It's certainly going to be 211 00:11:27,813 --> 00:11:30,493 Speaker 3: tested on this tour with guys like Jordi Barrett and 212 00:11:30,533 --> 00:11:34,173 Speaker 3: Scott Barrett already going down. You're already missing to provide 213 00:11:34,173 --> 00:11:39,293 Speaker 3: Patrick two plot Tyro Lomax, So it was a big tick. 214 00:11:40,013 --> 00:11:44,413 Speaker 3: Your point about, yeah, whether to start or keep wise 215 00:11:44,453 --> 00:11:50,893 Speaker 3: on the bench is very pertinent and an interesting one because, yeah, 216 00:11:50,893 --> 00:11:54,413 Speaker 3: we've seen the priority put on benches and the impact 217 00:11:54,413 --> 00:11:57,853 Speaker 3: in this match that it can have. Fining a nook. 218 00:11:57,893 --> 00:11:59,613 Speaker 3: You probably will go and to start at the center 219 00:11:59,693 --> 00:12:04,133 Speaker 3: this week, you'd suspect with Quinn switching to second five, 220 00:12:04,693 --> 00:12:07,293 Speaker 3: So maybe Rico comes onto the bench and maybe that 221 00:12:07,413 --> 00:12:13,213 Speaker 3: mitigates the impact somewhat. I think there's a real question about, well, 222 00:12:13,213 --> 00:12:17,293 Speaker 3: a couple of points I'll throw to you, Walla. I'd 223 00:12:17,333 --> 00:12:19,853 Speaker 3: probably like to see him start. I'm not sold on 224 00:12:19,893 --> 00:12:24,413 Speaker 3: Simon Parker. I thought he was reasonably underwhelming or anonymous 225 00:12:24,413 --> 00:12:26,133 Speaker 3: in this game, and I think we have seen that. 226 00:12:26,413 --> 00:12:28,453 Speaker 3: I understand the balance that you want from your loose 227 00:12:28,453 --> 00:12:34,333 Speaker 3: forward Traier, but I think you have Titi, Lackeye and 228 00:12:35,293 --> 00:12:39,573 Speaker 3: Ardi that's pretty dynamic. And the other question McKenzie, I 229 00:12:39,573 --> 00:12:43,333 Speaker 3: think him and Boden Barratt combined really well. And so 230 00:12:44,493 --> 00:12:47,093 Speaker 3: do you start McKenzie at fullback and have Will Jordan 231 00:12:47,173 --> 00:12:50,933 Speaker 3: on the right wing. There these are things that are 232 00:12:50,933 --> 00:12:53,773 Speaker 3: in the mix. But then it's back to your question 233 00:12:53,853 --> 00:12:57,613 Speaker 3: about does that less than the impact of the bench. 234 00:12:57,933 --> 00:13:00,133 Speaker 2: I think you can look at both of those. So 235 00:13:00,293 --> 00:13:01,773 Speaker 2: t I think I made the point last week on 236 00:13:01,813 --> 00:13:03,893 Speaker 2: the podcast is that he's had a tough year with 237 00:13:03,933 --> 00:13:07,093 Speaker 2: injury and it might be better getting thirty minute blocks 238 00:13:07,133 --> 00:13:09,693 Speaker 2: out of him, and obviously came on before halftime when 239 00:13:09,733 --> 00:13:13,413 Speaker 2: Parker went off with the HIA as well getting a 240 00:13:13,453 --> 00:13:15,453 Speaker 2: blockout of him in a game and not having to 241 00:13:16,493 --> 00:13:18,613 Speaker 2: suggest he plays eighty minutes for the rest of the 242 00:13:18,693 --> 00:13:21,013 Speaker 2: year and get into a super ruggye preseason. So that 243 00:13:21,053 --> 00:13:24,213 Speaker 2: may be the better outcome for these three matches. But 244 00:13:24,493 --> 00:13:26,933 Speaker 2: I agree around Parker is that you're still waiting for 245 00:13:27,013 --> 00:13:29,973 Speaker 2: him to have that breakout test match. He's been solid, 246 00:13:30,173 --> 00:13:33,973 Speaker 2: He's very good defensively, makes a lot of impactful tackles. 247 00:13:34,373 --> 00:13:36,173 Speaker 2: But there are works of traditionally liked having someone that 248 00:13:36,213 --> 00:13:38,573 Speaker 2: could do both sides of the ball from the blindside flank, 249 00:13:38,573 --> 00:13:41,013 Speaker 2: and we're probably not seeing that from Parker at the 250 00:13:41,093 --> 00:13:43,573 Speaker 2: moment on the back line thing like, I think he 251 00:13:43,693 --> 00:13:46,893 Speaker 2: could roll that out in a game. Also, I don't 252 00:13:46,893 --> 00:13:49,413 Speaker 2: know they'd be the first choice combination. You could easily 253 00:13:49,413 --> 00:13:51,333 Speaker 2: move will Jordan to the right wings. He played the 254 00:13:51,333 --> 00:13:53,973 Speaker 2: majority of his Test career there. Mackenzie at full back 255 00:13:54,093 --> 00:13:56,093 Speaker 2: and Bowden Barrett at ten. That's the combination I think 256 00:13:56,093 --> 00:14:00,053 Speaker 2: they went with in Wellington when they got belted by 257 00:14:00,133 --> 00:14:03,373 Speaker 2: South Africa. I'm not saying that was responsible on that night, 258 00:14:03,413 --> 00:14:06,853 Speaker 2: but I think you're right, Barrett McKenzie work well together. 259 00:14:06,933 --> 00:14:09,813 Speaker 2: But is it a symptom of McKenzie being able to 260 00:14:09,893 --> 00:14:13,053 Speaker 2: take on tied defenders in the last stage in the match? Yeah, 261 00:14:13,173 --> 00:14:15,293 Speaker 2: Rather than can he do that at minute one? Can 262 00:14:15,293 --> 00:14:17,853 Speaker 2: they combine like that from minute one to minute eighty? 263 00:14:18,213 --> 00:14:20,853 Speaker 2: Can they better do it in minutes fifty five to 264 00:14:20,933 --> 00:14:22,933 Speaker 2: eighty and try and take the game away from the 265 00:14:22,933 --> 00:14:26,733 Speaker 2: opposition there. So it's a fascinating question. I think find 266 00:14:26,773 --> 00:14:28,253 Speaker 2: a nook who has to be in the match Day 267 00:14:28,293 --> 00:14:32,413 Speaker 2: twenty three somewhere and on the right wing, Leroy Carter 268 00:14:32,493 --> 00:14:35,213 Speaker 2: probably didn't have who was the first test students who 269 00:14:35,253 --> 00:14:37,493 Speaker 2: are a try actually but didn't have a lot of 270 00:14:37,533 --> 00:14:40,253 Speaker 2: say in that game. I made the point last night 271 00:14:40,293 --> 00:14:41,933 Speaker 2: that I thought the field was too narrow for someone 272 00:14:41,973 --> 00:14:43,693 Speaker 2: like Litroy Card. It'd actually get too much ball. So 273 00:14:43,853 --> 00:14:45,813 Speaker 2: interesting to see what they do as they lead into 274 00:14:45,813 --> 00:14:46,973 Speaker 2: Scotland this week. 275 00:14:47,613 --> 00:14:51,213 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're but limited. I don't expect to 276 00:14:51,213 --> 00:14:55,853 Speaker 3: see too many changes. I think they're prioritizing this Grand Slam. 277 00:14:56,173 --> 00:15:01,373 Speaker 3: You know, Scott Robertson needs a successful tour to hang 278 00:15:01,413 --> 00:15:04,053 Speaker 3: his head on, and a Grand Slam would certainly be that. 279 00:15:04,373 --> 00:15:09,133 Speaker 3: And look, Scotland a very competitive team, particularly at home. 280 00:15:09,173 --> 00:15:12,213 Speaker 3: They've knocked over England a lot in recent years. At Murrayfield. 281 00:15:13,253 --> 00:15:17,493 Speaker 3: They are probably more dynamic in their attacking play than 282 00:15:17,533 --> 00:15:20,253 Speaker 3: a lot of the teams up North and Russell are 283 00:15:20,373 --> 00:15:27,653 Speaker 3: very inventive, attacking minded first five and that bat Irish. 284 00:15:27,853 --> 00:15:28,053 Speaker 2: Sorry. 285 00:15:28,093 --> 00:15:31,293 Speaker 3: The Scotland back line in particular has some threats right 286 00:15:31,293 --> 00:15:34,653 Speaker 3: across the park there. I don't think they'll be able 287 00:15:34,653 --> 00:15:37,573 Speaker 3: to match the All Blacks up front. I think that's 288 00:15:37,613 --> 00:15:40,253 Speaker 3: where the All Blacks will come for them, but I 289 00:15:40,293 --> 00:15:44,453 Speaker 3: think we'll see largely sticking to that team, with the 290 00:15:44,493 --> 00:15:48,813 Speaker 3: exception of the injuries. What do you make of Quinti 291 00:15:48,853 --> 00:15:53,373 Speaker 3: pier Lester defying Anoku midfield combination the Bash brothers. 292 00:15:53,533 --> 00:15:56,093 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't mind it. Actually, I don't know that 293 00:15:56,133 --> 00:15:58,853 Speaker 2: it'd be a first choice combination, but I'm intrigued to 294 00:15:58,853 --> 00:16:01,333 Speaker 2: see how it goes. And we saw it for a 295 00:16:01,413 --> 00:16:03,813 Speaker 2: large deal of that game and neither of them look 296 00:16:03,853 --> 00:16:07,493 Speaker 2: particularly out of place. Quinte Paie is comfortable at second five, 297 00:16:07,533 --> 00:16:10,253 Speaker 2: He's played majority he was rugby there, fighting Anku has 298 00:16:10,253 --> 00:16:12,293 Speaker 2: spent the last two or three years at Tulon playing 299 00:16:12,293 --> 00:16:15,653 Speaker 2: in that position as well. I think it's worth a 300 00:16:15,693 --> 00:16:17,133 Speaker 2: going And you look at who they're probably not going 301 00:16:17,133 --> 00:16:22,133 Speaker 2: to match up against for Scotland this week, you got 302 00:16:22,133 --> 00:16:25,493 Speaker 2: sort who they're probably coming up against. I'm not sure 303 00:16:25,493 --> 00:16:28,333 Speaker 2: who they'll what combination they'll go with the outside. They've 304 00:16:28,333 --> 00:16:30,893 Speaker 2: got a number of options there, but that might be 305 00:16:30,933 --> 00:16:33,173 Speaker 2: the option. The horses to courses approach at the all 306 00:16:33,213 --> 00:16:36,053 Speaker 2: Blacks make for this test matches, they go, this is 307 00:16:36,093 --> 00:16:38,493 Speaker 2: the combination we go go with as probably the path 308 00:16:38,493 --> 00:16:41,893 Speaker 2: of least disruption you could bring in a Rico Yuani 309 00:16:42,533 --> 00:16:46,973 Speaker 2: potentially or Antonine Brown who's adept at twelve or thirteen played. 310 00:16:47,093 --> 00:16:50,293 Speaker 2: Billy Proctor started seven Tests this year at center. Yeah, 311 00:16:50,493 --> 00:16:54,893 Speaker 2: it didn't take his chance and I don't think you 312 00:16:54,933 --> 00:16:56,933 Speaker 2: could argue with the change that they've made there. No, 313 00:16:57,173 --> 00:16:59,893 Speaker 2: so instantly we're seeing the impact that to players made 314 00:16:59,893 --> 00:17:04,493 Speaker 2: and fighting anuku. So surely for this Test match in particular, 315 00:17:04,533 --> 00:17:07,013 Speaker 2: if we just viewed in isolation that you've got to 316 00:17:07,053 --> 00:17:08,413 Speaker 2: go with that combination, don't. 317 00:17:08,413 --> 00:17:11,293 Speaker 3: Yeah, you do. And look, I've been in pre spy 318 00:17:11,373 --> 00:17:14,733 Speaker 3: a Leicester. He's only played two Tests in two years 319 00:17:14,773 --> 00:17:18,133 Speaker 3: that since coming back from two years in France, and 320 00:17:18,213 --> 00:17:19,973 Speaker 3: I think this would be his first start for the 321 00:17:20,013 --> 00:17:23,053 Speaker 3: All Blacks at center. He's pretty much played on the wing. 322 00:17:24,213 --> 00:17:27,653 Speaker 3: But I've talked to him about this and he's fairly 323 00:17:27,693 --> 00:17:30,453 Speaker 3: open about the fact that he's a midfielder now first 324 00:17:30,453 --> 00:17:32,613 Speaker 3: and foremost, and I think that's where his strengths lies 325 00:17:33,013 --> 00:17:35,853 Speaker 3: all right, with his ball carrying, with his power is offloading. 326 00:17:36,293 --> 00:17:38,493 Speaker 3: I think from center there's probably still a question about 327 00:17:38,493 --> 00:17:41,373 Speaker 3: his distribution. But on the wing, I think he's a 328 00:17:41,413 --> 00:17:44,453 Speaker 3: bit wasted, doesn't see as much ball and would probably 329 00:17:44,493 --> 00:17:47,933 Speaker 3: be targeted under the high ball. So yeah, I'm very 330 00:17:47,933 --> 00:17:50,533 Speaker 3: intrigued to see him get a crack from the outset, 331 00:17:50,693 --> 00:17:53,613 Speaker 3: and I think he could be a really leath way 332 00:17:53,693 --> 00:17:56,413 Speaker 3: set because even if he's not busting the line, he 333 00:17:56,493 --> 00:17:59,453 Speaker 3: demands attention, so he's going to free up space elsewhere. 334 00:17:59,533 --> 00:18:02,093 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're exactly only saw that break he 335 00:18:02,173 --> 00:18:04,013 Speaker 2: made to set up what ended up in an artist 336 00:18:04,053 --> 00:18:06,133 Speaker 2: ove of you try in the right wing corner. It's 337 00:18:06,133 --> 00:18:10,493 Speaker 2: soldier field as well. Scott Barrett with a laceration, as 338 00:18:10,733 --> 00:18:14,053 Speaker 2: Scott Robinson put it in the postmatch media conference, sounds 339 00:18:14,093 --> 00:18:16,893 Speaker 2: pretty nasty. Don't know the full effexes yet. I'm sure 340 00:18:16,933 --> 00:18:18,533 Speaker 2: the lot Davis in the next couple of days, but 341 00:18:19,013 --> 00:18:21,573 Speaker 2: probably unlikely to play against Scotland, you would think. 342 00:18:21,573 --> 00:18:24,013 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I mean without seeing it or 343 00:18:25,333 --> 00:18:28,173 Speaker 3: being told exactly, you don't know the extent of it, 344 00:18:28,253 --> 00:18:30,813 Speaker 3: but you think back to Tyro or Lomax at the 345 00:18:30,853 --> 00:18:34,493 Speaker 3: World Cup. I think it took him three weeks at 346 00:18:34,573 --> 00:18:37,253 Speaker 3: least to come right. So I did see a lot 347 00:18:37,253 --> 00:18:40,093 Speaker 3: of blood on Scott Bratt's leg and it's around the 348 00:18:40,173 --> 00:18:43,293 Speaker 3: knee area, which is a bit niggly because that's where 349 00:18:43,293 --> 00:18:46,213 Speaker 3: it bends. So he would have had to probably try 350 00:18:46,253 --> 00:18:49,253 Speaker 3: and keep that straight as you're blacks jetted. 351 00:18:48,973 --> 00:18:51,733 Speaker 2: Out on hopefully business class raises. 352 00:18:51,813 --> 00:18:55,013 Speaker 3: Jet has already put it last night from Chicago to 353 00:18:55,133 --> 00:18:58,293 Speaker 3: Edinburgh that the all blacks, what do we Sunday morning 354 00:18:58,293 --> 00:19:02,453 Speaker 3: in Chicago? They already in Edinburgh. So that will allow 355 00:19:02,533 --> 00:19:05,013 Speaker 3: him to have a four weeks preparation. But yeah, big 356 00:19:05,093 --> 00:19:07,173 Speaker 3: setback for Scott brat this. I think that's a fourth 357 00:19:07,253 --> 00:19:11,733 Speaker 3: chest he's missed this year. So from getting some form 358 00:19:11,773 --> 00:19:16,533 Speaker 3: of flow and fluidness into his game, it's it's he's 359 00:19:16,533 --> 00:19:21,213 Speaker 3: had a lot of disruptions and Ardie that the captaincy 360 00:19:21,253 --> 00:19:22,893 Speaker 3: is becoming quite interchangeable as well. 361 00:19:22,973 --> 00:19:25,533 Speaker 2: It is, yeah, and I suspect will do it against Scotland. 362 00:19:25,893 --> 00:19:29,053 Speaker 2: This week we saw Fabi and Holland who's only twenty three, 363 00:19:29,173 --> 00:19:34,013 Speaker 2: only twenty three. In October, Josh Lord combined twenty three 364 00:19:34,093 --> 00:19:37,293 Speaker 2: years old twenty four year old Josh Lord. Holland had 365 00:19:37,293 --> 00:19:40,413 Speaker 2: played nineties matches going into yesterday's game. Lord had played 366 00:19:40,453 --> 00:19:43,573 Speaker 2: eight over a four year period and they were forced 367 00:19:43,613 --> 00:19:45,733 Speaker 2: to combine them. It wasn't a perfect line out the thing. 368 00:19:45,893 --> 00:19:49,813 Speaker 2: They had a few steals, not straight throws et cetera, 369 00:19:49,853 --> 00:19:50,293 Speaker 2: et cetera. 370 00:19:50,613 --> 00:19:54,373 Speaker 3: I think the Island's line operated at sixty nine percent 371 00:19:54,333 --> 00:19:57,453 Speaker 3: in all Blacks seventy five, So yeah, not a great 372 00:19:57,493 --> 00:19:57,933 Speaker 3: day for reason. 373 00:19:58,013 --> 00:20:00,013 Speaker 2: Not great, definitely not, but the All Blacks found like 374 00:20:00,133 --> 00:20:02,973 Speaker 2: they pinched more and probably those stats reflect that than 375 00:20:03,133 --> 00:20:05,493 Speaker 2: Ireland was able to get off them in the end. 376 00:20:05,653 --> 00:20:09,093 Speaker 2: And for a while now it's been sort of Josh Lord, 377 00:20:09,773 --> 00:20:12,533 Speaker 2: what is he in the All Black squad? Forward hasn't 378 00:20:12,533 --> 00:20:15,533 Speaker 2: played a lot of rugby really, including at chiefs level 379 00:20:15,613 --> 00:20:19,933 Speaker 2: NPC level through his young career. Well wouldn't level it 380 00:20:19,973 --> 00:20:21,933 Speaker 2: a coming of age performance, but there were signs that 381 00:20:21,973 --> 00:20:24,933 Speaker 2: you go, okay, I can see why he's been a 382 00:20:24,933 --> 00:20:27,093 Speaker 2: part of this All Black squad across a four year 383 00:20:27,133 --> 00:20:30,053 Speaker 2: period and what he's potentially able to do. He was 384 00:20:30,093 --> 00:20:31,573 Speaker 2: calling the line out, so as soon as he came 385 00:20:31,573 --> 00:20:34,013 Speaker 2: on it's a big leadership role for someone like him 386 00:20:34,013 --> 00:20:38,213 Speaker 2: who's actually got less test experience. In Fabian Holland, I 387 00:20:38,213 --> 00:20:42,693 Speaker 2: thought it was convincing outing from Josh Lord that you go, okay, 388 00:20:42,693 --> 00:20:43,733 Speaker 2: we can see what you're doing there. 389 00:20:43,853 --> 00:20:47,453 Speaker 3: It was easily his biggest contribution to the All Blacks. 390 00:20:47,413 --> 00:20:50,533 Speaker 3: So I remember, I'm I think starting in Argentina one 391 00:20:50,573 --> 00:20:55,013 Speaker 3: test a couple of years ago, and that was his 392 00:20:55,133 --> 00:20:58,493 Speaker 3: last real impression in my mind anyway. So yeah, to 393 00:20:58,533 --> 00:21:00,853 Speaker 3: come off three minutes and as you say, call the 394 00:21:00,893 --> 00:21:03,653 Speaker 3: line out, steal a bit of ball, be prominent around 395 00:21:03,653 --> 00:21:06,573 Speaker 3: the park. It was a breakout performance for him and 396 00:21:07,173 --> 00:21:09,133 Speaker 3: he'll have to go again next He look like is 397 00:21:09,533 --> 00:21:12,973 Speaker 3: pretty bruised up on the side of his face. So 398 00:21:13,413 --> 00:21:15,973 Speaker 3: the All Black's locking depth is going to be seriously tested. 399 00:21:16,013 --> 00:21:19,133 Speaker 3: It's akin to the half back ranks earlier this year 400 00:21:19,133 --> 00:21:21,693 Speaker 3: when they were forced to go five and sixty. You're 401 00:21:21,693 --> 00:21:24,453 Speaker 3: probably gonna have a situation where Sam Dowry comes onto 402 00:21:24,493 --> 00:21:28,133 Speaker 3: the bench. They've got Summer Penny female who can potentially 403 00:21:28,293 --> 00:21:35,453 Speaker 3: cover lock but Asiah Walker, Leah Wed and Arkoy both 404 00:21:35,533 --> 00:21:38,613 Speaker 3: didn't go on the All Blacks fifteen tour, so there's 405 00:21:38,653 --> 00:21:42,053 Speaker 3: a potential for Josh Berry or a Caleb Delaney to 406 00:21:42,093 --> 00:21:45,613 Speaker 3: have to be called in as cover, depending on how 407 00:21:45,653 --> 00:21:47,133 Speaker 3: bad Scott Barrett is. 408 00:21:47,333 --> 00:21:49,133 Speaker 2: Yeah, Jamie Hannah was a Black call up to that 409 00:21:49,173 --> 00:21:52,533 Speaker 2: tour as well for the All Blacks fifteen, which we'll 410 00:21:52,533 --> 00:21:55,013 Speaker 2: get into in a wee moment or two, so they 411 00:21:55,093 --> 00:21:58,173 Speaker 2: might have to get someone. I think They've got the 412 00:21:58,293 --> 00:22:01,413 Speaker 2: England a side in Bath, so obviously they're going to 413 00:22:01,413 --> 00:22:02,933 Speaker 2: be in the one continent this week and they can 414 00:22:03,013 --> 00:22:06,213 Speaker 2: easily call in someone submission to see they pull into camp. 415 00:22:06,293 --> 00:22:07,733 Speaker 3: Is it a concern that locking depth. 416 00:22:09,733 --> 00:22:13,133 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think if they're going to 417 00:22:13,133 --> 00:22:16,693 Speaker 2: get in a Josh Bury or a Caleb Delaty, I 418 00:22:16,693 --> 00:22:18,973 Speaker 2: think they are underprepared for Test Rugby, no doubt about it. 419 00:22:19,013 --> 00:22:22,173 Speaker 2: But similar to the halfback death, it's only a moment 420 00:22:22,213 --> 00:22:23,693 Speaker 2: in time. I think the lock and depth is very, 421 00:22:23,773 --> 00:22:25,613 Speaker 2: very good because when you add in a full strength 422 00:22:25,653 --> 00:22:28,453 Speaker 2: to po Vi, Patrick, Toopolo who, Scott, Barrett, Fabi and 423 00:22:28,453 --> 00:22:32,493 Speaker 2: holand Josh Lord five very good locks. So I don't 424 00:22:32,493 --> 00:22:34,773 Speaker 2: think it's a concern. When you get to six seven, 425 00:22:36,093 --> 00:22:38,813 Speaker 2: as the kids say, you're getting into the depth and 426 00:22:38,853 --> 00:22:41,093 Speaker 2: you're not often having to go that deep. So I 427 00:22:41,133 --> 00:22:43,253 Speaker 2: don't think it's a huge concern for me personally. No. 428 00:22:43,293 --> 00:22:45,133 Speaker 3: I think you're right. It could be a concer. You 429 00:22:45,173 --> 00:22:47,613 Speaker 3: get one more ding on this tour and you're starting 430 00:22:47,653 --> 00:22:49,813 Speaker 3: to dig pretty deep, and we saw that with the 431 00:22:49,853 --> 00:22:53,733 Speaker 3: half backs. But yeah, it's good for these guys to 432 00:22:53,773 --> 00:22:58,733 Speaker 3: get that exposure and without knowing you would expect to 433 00:22:58,733 --> 00:23:02,173 Speaker 3: see Scott Barrett push pretty hard to be available for 434 00:23:02,373 --> 00:23:05,493 Speaker 3: that England Test, because it does feel like that's going 435 00:23:05,533 --> 00:23:07,213 Speaker 3: to be the one to define this tour now. 436 00:23:07,333 --> 00:23:09,213 Speaker 2: Indeed, keep a cross insit here all dot co to 437 00:23:09,253 --> 00:23:11,653 Speaker 2: insin for all the updates. We will be onto Edinburgh. 438 00:23:11,653 --> 00:23:14,213 Speaker 2: Will take a quick break, come back with the final 439 00:23:14,213 --> 00:23:15,813 Speaker 2: four after this on Rugby directs. 440 00:23:16,733 --> 00:23:21,933 Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans. 441 00:23:25,933 --> 00:23:29,693 Speaker 2: Every try, try ten, sixty secondary tackle to tackle tackles, 442 00:23:29,693 --> 00:23:30,533 Speaker 2: Get up again. 443 00:23:33,733 --> 00:23:35,693 Speaker 1: A more Rugby direct. 444 00:23:37,733 --> 00:23:42,173 Speaker 2: You're back with Rugby direct By Access Solutions, celebrating twenty 445 00:23:42,173 --> 00:23:44,653 Speaker 2: five years in business. Time. Now for the final four 446 00:23:45,013 --> 00:23:48,933 Speaker 2: for Rugby topics there myself debate them Liam. The success 447 00:23:49,133 --> 00:23:51,893 Speaker 2: of the United States venture over the last week or 448 00:23:51,933 --> 00:23:54,693 Speaker 2: so as we built into this test, the test match itself, 449 00:23:55,173 --> 00:23:58,773 Speaker 2: the product, the fan fear around it, the event. What 450 00:23:58,813 --> 00:24:01,093 Speaker 2: did you make of the Chicago Test? 451 00:24:02,253 --> 00:24:04,733 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I think it is a success. It was 452 00:24:04,773 --> 00:24:07,773 Speaker 3: a we want to a function now. The night and 453 00:24:07,853 --> 00:24:12,173 Speaker 3: heard the that they sold fifty thousand tickets in one 454 00:24:12,253 --> 00:24:16,773 Speaker 3: day for this game and that was across was it 455 00:24:16,853 --> 00:24:17,853 Speaker 3: thirty forty odd States? 456 00:24:17,853 --> 00:24:19,613 Speaker 2: I thought it was all fifty from memory, I'm be wrong. 457 00:24:19,693 --> 00:24:24,853 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty impressive. I'm not sure it was actually 458 00:24:25,013 --> 00:24:28,573 Speaker 3: was full yesterday. From my vantage point, it did look 459 00:24:28,613 --> 00:24:31,893 Speaker 3: there were like there were a few empty seats. I 460 00:24:31,933 --> 00:24:34,053 Speaker 3: heard that there were a number of all the tickets 461 00:24:34,093 --> 00:24:36,493 Speaker 3: were sold, but I heard there were a number being scalped, 462 00:24:36,693 --> 00:24:42,173 Speaker 3: which is beyond organizers' control. I think from a revenue perspective, 463 00:24:43,093 --> 00:24:48,493 Speaker 3: this as apparently the All Blacks biggest gate taking because 464 00:24:48,533 --> 00:24:51,773 Speaker 3: it's a sheered gate since the British and Irish Lions tour, 465 00:24:52,133 --> 00:24:55,693 Speaker 3: so that's very significant. The coffers will be well stopped. 466 00:24:55,933 --> 00:24:59,053 Speaker 3: They got around a number of major sponsors, They won 467 00:24:59,093 --> 00:25:02,573 Speaker 3: the match. The spectacle itself, I think left a lot 468 00:25:02,613 --> 00:25:06,173 Speaker 3: to be desired prior to that last twenty minutes, very 469 00:25:06,173 --> 00:25:11,933 Speaker 3: stop start, very clunky, over officiated, not a great watch, 470 00:25:11,973 --> 00:25:15,213 Speaker 3: but the All Blacks probably left a great impression by 471 00:25:15,373 --> 00:25:17,293 Speaker 3: the way they finished that game, so I think a 472 00:25:17,333 --> 00:25:19,573 Speaker 3: lot of boxes ticked. I think the players really enjoy 473 00:25:19,613 --> 00:25:21,733 Speaker 3: coming here. They like America, they like going to the 474 00:25:21,853 --> 00:25:25,293 Speaker 3: NBA and the Black Hawks. I think it's a very 475 00:25:25,373 --> 00:25:28,853 Speaker 3: valuable experience and by the sounds, the All Black San 476 00:25:28,973 --> 00:25:31,693 Speaker 3: Island plan to come here, if not every year. They're 477 00:25:31,733 --> 00:25:34,413 Speaker 3: pretty close to it. Not necessarily to Chicago, but I 478 00:25:34,453 --> 00:25:36,173 Speaker 3: think they will be back here, but certainly to the 479 00:25:36,213 --> 00:25:39,293 Speaker 3: States and the lead up to the twenty thirty one 480 00:25:39,493 --> 00:25:40,053 Speaker 3: World Cup. 481 00:25:40,253 --> 00:25:41,973 Speaker 2: Yeah, the only thing I'd say is it was a 482 00:25:41,973 --> 00:25:43,893 Speaker 2: success and there was a lot of Irish jerseys around 483 00:25:43,973 --> 00:25:46,533 Speaker 2: yesterday before the game, and a few All Blacks jerseys 484 00:25:46,533 --> 00:25:49,853 Speaker 2: as well. It was, as you say, sell out even 485 00:25:49,893 --> 00:25:53,453 Speaker 2: if it didn't appear, so it'd be good to see 486 00:25:53,493 --> 00:25:55,693 Speaker 2: them go elsewhere. I know, Chicago's got the huge Irish 487 00:25:55,733 --> 00:26:00,093 Speaker 2: population and diaspora, and that's why they come here. Soldier 488 00:26:00,133 --> 00:26:04,053 Speaker 2: Field itself perhaps a little bit tired. The turf wasn't great. 489 00:26:05,133 --> 00:26:09,373 Speaker 2: It's now the smallest NFL stadium I know. We saw 490 00:26:09,453 --> 00:26:12,173 Speaker 2: last week. The city's narrowed down or put their hands 491 00:26:12,253 --> 00:26:15,133 Speaker 2: up for World Cup games in twenty thirty one. Chicago's done. 492 00:26:15,213 --> 00:26:17,413 Speaker 2: So they are in the proceeds of trying to build 493 00:26:17,413 --> 00:26:20,373 Speaker 2: a new stadium for the Chicago Beers. It's going to 494 00:26:20,373 --> 00:26:22,613 Speaker 2: cost about three billion dollars. I think I read somewhere 495 00:26:22,733 --> 00:26:25,493 Speaker 2: last week there's a bit of haggling over who exactly 496 00:26:25,533 --> 00:26:27,253 Speaker 2: is going to pay for it, which sounds very familiar 497 00:26:27,333 --> 00:26:30,733 Speaker 2: to us. That have followed stadium debacles in New Zealand. 498 00:26:30,773 --> 00:26:34,533 Speaker 2: But I almost think they need to move it elsewhere 499 00:26:34,573 --> 00:26:36,333 Speaker 2: because I done Chicago. They've done two games, and it 500 00:26:36,413 --> 00:26:38,613 Speaker 2: was a bit of talk about a trilogy or rematch 501 00:26:38,733 --> 00:26:41,413 Speaker 2: last week, but in Chicago's clearly embraced it, and the 502 00:26:41,693 --> 00:26:45,253 Speaker 2: Sports Commission function that we went to. We're very excited 503 00:26:45,293 --> 00:26:47,373 Speaker 2: to have them here, but I think they ahead of 504 00:26:47,413 --> 00:26:49,653 Speaker 2: twenty thirty one. If this is going to work, they 505 00:26:49,693 --> 00:26:52,373 Speaker 2: need to move elsewhere. They were talking about Boston initially 506 00:26:52,413 --> 00:26:57,373 Speaker 2: for this game didn't work out because San Francisco could 507 00:26:57,373 --> 00:27:00,373 Speaker 2: go to the Narol sort of latched onto Vegas, but 508 00:27:00,373 --> 00:27:00,933 Speaker 2: you could go. 509 00:27:00,853 --> 00:27:03,173 Speaker 3: There've been talk about the Pumas and Miami. 510 00:27:03,013 --> 00:27:05,533 Speaker 2: Miami, New York. Potentially there are other places you can go. 511 00:27:05,573 --> 00:27:07,773 Speaker 2: I mean, New York's got an Irish population as well, 512 00:27:07,893 --> 00:27:09,533 Speaker 2: if you want to do that. All Blacks Island thing 513 00:27:09,573 --> 00:27:13,213 Speaker 2: over again, and maybe you know the Fourth Test and 514 00:27:13,253 --> 00:27:16,613 Speaker 2: that Rugby's greatest rivalry could end up here next year. 515 00:27:16,733 --> 00:27:18,973 Speaker 2: As yet, you just don't know, so I would encourage 516 00:27:19,013 --> 00:27:22,133 Speaker 2: them to move. I mean, I've loved the time in Chicago, 517 00:27:22,173 --> 00:27:24,613 Speaker 2: but you can't just concentrate in Chicago. If you're going 518 00:27:24,653 --> 00:27:25,333 Speaker 2: to make this work. 519 00:27:26,013 --> 00:27:28,813 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, And I guess it works from an 520 00:27:28,813 --> 00:27:31,653 Speaker 3: all Black perspective because they have a lot of major 521 00:27:31,693 --> 00:27:35,733 Speaker 3: sponsors based here, right, So that's probably another driver for them. 522 00:27:35,893 --> 00:27:40,733 Speaker 3: But the goal for rugby is I think people will 523 00:27:40,733 --> 00:27:42,573 Speaker 3: tell you that if you can get one percent of 524 00:27:42,573 --> 00:27:45,453 Speaker 3: the American market that you have cracked it. Yeah, and 525 00:27:45,533 --> 00:27:50,573 Speaker 3: so you're right. This is one city, one state, And 526 00:27:51,173 --> 00:27:53,813 Speaker 3: if you're actually going to make a real impression, which 527 00:27:53,853 --> 00:27:59,493 Speaker 3: I think any sport outside the American traditional sports is 528 00:27:59,533 --> 00:28:02,533 Speaker 3: incredibly hard to do, then you do need to shift around. 529 00:28:02,453 --> 00:28:05,093 Speaker 2: Spread the gospel. Topic Number two the All Blacks fifteen 530 00:28:06,373 --> 00:28:09,133 Speaker 2: playing the Barbarians, which was very very much a sort 531 00:28:09,173 --> 00:28:12,213 Speaker 2: of South African sort of side plus bred Weather. I 532 00:28:12,213 --> 00:28:13,693 Speaker 2: know you saw a fear bit of this game. I 533 00:28:13,693 --> 00:28:15,373 Speaker 2: didn't see as much. What did you make of the 534 00:28:15,373 --> 00:28:16,453 Speaker 2: All Blacks fifteen performance? 535 00:28:16,813 --> 00:28:19,333 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right. The Babba stack with Sapha's they scored 536 00:28:19,373 --> 00:28:21,733 Speaker 3: some rolling more tries are up nineteen Neil early and 537 00:28:21,813 --> 00:28:24,813 Speaker 3: I thought, oh shit, this is not going well. 538 00:28:25,333 --> 00:28:26,493 Speaker 2: But the All Blacks. 539 00:28:26,173 --> 00:28:29,813 Speaker 3: Fifteen, I think they scored thirty three unanswered points. So 540 00:28:30,373 --> 00:28:33,413 Speaker 3: came back into that match really well. A good start 541 00:28:33,493 --> 00:28:35,693 Speaker 3: to their three match tour. I was really impressed by 542 00:28:35,813 --> 00:28:40,293 Speaker 3: Caleb Tongueytao Highlands' aucornd flyer on the on the wing. 543 00:28:41,133 --> 00:28:43,493 Speaker 3: He was perhaps a wee bit fortunate with his first try, 544 00:28:44,013 --> 00:28:47,093 Speaker 3: just had his fingers on the ball. Looked like he 545 00:28:47,373 --> 00:28:49,933 Speaker 3: pretty much dropped it to dive over the line. Sun 546 00:28:49,973 --> 00:28:52,933 Speaker 3: as many many coaches have said over the years, but 547 00:28:53,533 --> 00:28:56,893 Speaker 3: his pace as a Leith said, I think he's deserving 548 00:28:56,893 --> 00:29:00,573 Speaker 3: of a place in this All Black team. Now there's 549 00:29:00,613 --> 00:29:03,493 Speaker 3: an argument he's better off playing these All Blacks fifteen 550 00:29:03,533 --> 00:29:04,733 Speaker 3: games getting exposure. 551 00:29:06,093 --> 00:29:06,373 Speaker 2: I was. 552 00:29:06,733 --> 00:29:09,453 Speaker 3: I think that the loose forwards played well Dalton Papa, 553 00:29:09,533 --> 00:29:14,013 Speaker 3: Lee Year and and others, and the halfbacks Xavier Row 554 00:29:14,253 --> 00:29:17,453 Speaker 3: and Kyle Preston. So yeah, really it's a good start 555 00:29:17,493 --> 00:29:20,013 Speaker 3: to that tour and interesting to see how they build 556 00:29:20,053 --> 00:29:23,533 Speaker 3: and rotates and whether you know, maybe a Reuben Love 557 00:29:23,613 --> 00:29:27,413 Speaker 3: goes back and plays for that team in the coming 558 00:29:27,453 --> 00:29:31,493 Speaker 3: weeks and others. Do you know, guys like Sevie Reese 559 00:29:31,493 --> 00:29:35,213 Speaker 3: and Luke Jacobson, Anton Lenna Brown they could do some 560 00:29:35,293 --> 00:29:36,053 Speaker 3: game time as well. 561 00:29:36,133 --> 00:29:38,173 Speaker 2: They could do This might be the week to do so, 562 00:29:38,293 --> 00:29:41,013 Speaker 2: potentially potentially for them if I think ten. None knows 563 00:29:41,013 --> 00:29:42,053 Speaker 2: the tour I got out of the match. 564 00:29:42,093 --> 00:29:44,013 Speaker 3: Yeah he was good as well. Yeah, he's a very 565 00:29:44,013 --> 00:29:48,813 Speaker 3: silky player, you know, great kicking game as well as finishing. 566 00:29:48,933 --> 00:29:52,133 Speaker 3: So I think Nick Evans and the commentary awarded him 567 00:29:52,133 --> 00:29:54,333 Speaker 3: Man of the match. So nice to hear a Kiwi voice. 568 00:29:54,413 --> 00:29:56,173 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the All Blacks looking for a tech coach, 569 00:29:56,213 --> 00:29:58,613 Speaker 2: so maybe it was checking them out to see whether 570 00:29:58,653 --> 00:30:01,533 Speaker 2: he is interested in that topic. Number two Tom on 571 00:30:01,773 --> 00:30:07,213 Speaker 2: three Nather in the Final four England Australia. Well we'll 572 00:30:07,213 --> 00:30:08,853 Speaker 2: talk about it for some of the other matches as well, 573 00:30:08,893 --> 00:30:11,293 Speaker 2: but that was the probably the headline match outside all 574 00:30:11,373 --> 00:30:14,973 Speaker 2: that island. From our perspective, England very very good. I 575 00:30:15,093 --> 00:30:19,773 Speaker 2: thought twenty five points to seven. They stuck a stake 576 00:30:19,853 --> 00:30:23,733 Speaker 2: through the heart of Australia. The Wallabies where I thought abysmal. 577 00:30:25,133 --> 00:30:27,013 Speaker 2: Funnily enough, I only saw the first forty. You saw 578 00:30:27,013 --> 00:30:29,813 Speaker 2: the second forty, so we'll combined now for some thoughts. 579 00:30:29,813 --> 00:30:32,613 Speaker 2: But I didn't think Australia offered much on attack. Their 580 00:30:32,973 --> 00:30:35,173 Speaker 2: one try came from a Harry Potter ninety five meter 581 00:30:35,333 --> 00:30:38,693 Speaker 2: intercept and it was only what ten to seven a 582 00:30:38,733 --> 00:30:41,173 Speaker 2: half time, But you felt England we're going to open 583 00:30:41,173 --> 00:30:42,853 Speaker 2: this game up in the second spell, and they did 584 00:30:43,053 --> 00:30:45,853 Speaker 2: in the latter part of the game. But I thought 585 00:30:46,093 --> 00:30:48,053 Speaker 2: I've seen some mixed responses to the England performance, but 586 00:30:48,053 --> 00:30:48,933 Speaker 2: I thought they were pretty good. 587 00:30:49,613 --> 00:30:51,653 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if I was overly impressed by England. 588 00:30:51,653 --> 00:30:53,853 Speaker 3: They had I've gone back to George Ford at ten. 589 00:30:54,413 --> 00:30:58,613 Speaker 3: Alex Mitchell kicked. I think England kick among the most 590 00:30:58,653 --> 00:31:01,693 Speaker 3: teams in world rugby, something like one thousand meters per game. 591 00:31:02,533 --> 00:31:05,773 Speaker 3: They scored one try off for Alex Mitchell box kick. 592 00:31:06,293 --> 00:31:09,173 Speaker 3: But you're right, Australia were really underwhelming. Missing I think 593 00:31:09,213 --> 00:31:12,453 Speaker 3: three players they couldn't get access to for their English 594 00:31:12,533 --> 00:31:17,453 Speaker 3: clubs for this match, and it just starts starting to 595 00:31:17,493 --> 00:31:19,533 Speaker 3: feel like the Wallabies are hitting the wall a bit. 596 00:31:19,573 --> 00:31:21,973 Speaker 3: They've had the British and Irish lines tour, they've been 597 00:31:21,973 --> 00:31:24,813 Speaker 3: out to South Africa, they've played the All Blacks twice 598 00:31:25,493 --> 00:31:28,813 Speaker 3: and yeah, this was a pretty underwhelming performance. A good 599 00:31:28,853 --> 00:31:30,613 Speaker 3: one for England, but I don't think it was a 600 00:31:30,653 --> 00:31:34,453 Speaker 3: great one. They don't They're always hard to beat at Twickenham, 601 00:31:34,493 --> 00:31:38,253 Speaker 3: but I don't think the way they're playing, it's pretty conservative, 602 00:31:38,973 --> 00:31:44,533 Speaker 3: would strike fear through other teams, But when you compare 603 00:31:44,533 --> 00:31:47,573 Speaker 3: them to Ireland to start that Northern tour on that 604 00:31:47,653 --> 00:31:49,933 Speaker 3: sort of note, it's a notable victory. 605 00:31:50,173 --> 00:31:53,253 Speaker 2: Well is there four losses in a rona for the Wallabies. 606 00:31:53,653 --> 00:31:56,453 Speaker 3: Back to back to the All Blacks and Argentina. Yeah, yeah, 607 00:31:56,493 --> 00:32:00,573 Speaker 3: I think they've won five of eleven this year. So 608 00:32:00,693 --> 00:32:04,133 Speaker 3: for all the improvements that Joe Schmidt has made and 609 00:32:04,173 --> 00:32:07,653 Speaker 3: how competitive they were early in the year, it's still 610 00:32:07,653 --> 00:32:08,773 Speaker 3: a big task, isn't it. 611 00:32:08,773 --> 00:32:11,773 Speaker 2: It certainly is Scotland warming up for the All Blacks 612 00:32:11,813 --> 00:32:14,813 Speaker 2: with an eighty five nilwyn over the USA. Is that 613 00:32:14,893 --> 00:32:18,973 Speaker 2: good preparation? Hard to know? It's a game. I guess 614 00:32:20,053 --> 00:32:23,253 Speaker 2: they didn't have their entire first choice team out on 615 00:32:23,293 --> 00:32:26,533 Speaker 2: the park, the USA going backwards that are raided knots, 616 00:32:26,533 --> 00:32:29,533 Speaker 2: which is an overly encouraging head of twenty thirty one. 617 00:32:30,493 --> 00:32:35,533 Speaker 2: And South Africa beating Japan and Wembley. Pretty performance from Japan. 618 00:32:35,813 --> 00:32:38,853 Speaker 2: Sorry South Africa, but poor crowd weird this isdn't have 619 00:32:38,893 --> 00:32:43,693 Speaker 2: it at Wimbley when there's All Backs fifteen going on 620 00:32:43,733 --> 00:32:46,373 Speaker 2: across town. But more importantly England Australia at twicken them 621 00:32:46,373 --> 00:32:48,933 Speaker 2: three rugby matches on in one day you could have 622 00:32:48,933 --> 00:32:50,773 Speaker 2: had one of those on the Sunday, might have cleared 623 00:32:50,813 --> 00:32:53,053 Speaker 2: a bit of the schedule up and people could have 624 00:32:53,053 --> 00:32:54,973 Speaker 2: gone to both. Twenty three thousand I think was a crowd. 625 00:32:55,213 --> 00:32:56,733 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it looks a lot worse, doesn't it in 626 00:32:56,773 --> 00:33:00,853 Speaker 3: a massive venue like Wembley. I think that also probably 627 00:33:00,853 --> 00:33:05,253 Speaker 3: speaks to if you compare the spring Box and All 628 00:33:05,293 --> 00:33:08,973 Speaker 3: Blacks brand right like the Boxer back to World Cup 629 00:33:08,973 --> 00:33:13,933 Speaker 3: winners and there's a massive expat South African population lon 630 00:33:14,053 --> 00:33:16,653 Speaker 3: we've seen that, we've experienced it being there for the 631 00:33:16,653 --> 00:33:21,213 Speaker 3: spring Box and All Blacks, but they clearly don't have 632 00:33:21,253 --> 00:33:21,893 Speaker 3: the same lure. 633 00:33:22,053 --> 00:33:24,173 Speaker 2: No. I think it's also the match as well that 634 00:33:24,253 --> 00:33:26,533 Speaker 2: we were ten years removed from the Brighton Miracle. Japan 635 00:33:26,613 --> 00:33:29,133 Speaker 2: Art the team they once were no fair and it's 636 00:33:29,173 --> 00:33:30,453 Speaker 2: kind of like here. You know, a lot of people said, 637 00:33:30,453 --> 00:33:31,853 Speaker 2: all you know, the All Blacks wouldn't sell out if 638 00:33:31,853 --> 00:33:34,373 Speaker 2: it wasn't Ireland, But Ireland wouldn't sell out if it 639 00:33:34,413 --> 00:33:36,693 Speaker 2: wasn't for the All Blacks. So you know, each team contributes, 640 00:33:36,733 --> 00:33:40,213 Speaker 2: I think to the game and the spectacle that's there 641 00:33:40,253 --> 00:33:43,333 Speaker 2: and the willingness of people to buy tickets. But felt 642 00:33:43,373 --> 00:33:46,493 Speaker 2: like a bit of chasing the coin there that probably 643 00:33:46,533 --> 00:33:48,853 Speaker 2: wasn't justified from the South African perspective. 644 00:33:49,013 --> 00:33:50,813 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the Box now gone to play France 645 00:33:50,813 --> 00:33:53,893 Speaker 3: and then yep, that'll be a blockbuster. Very intrigued to 646 00:33:53,893 --> 00:33:58,613 Speaker 3: see who wins it and also how many of those 647 00:33:58,653 --> 00:34:00,933 Speaker 3: players it came out to New Zealand feature for that 648 00:34:00,973 --> 00:34:01,813 Speaker 3: French team. 649 00:34:01,773 --> 00:34:04,133 Speaker 2: Yeah, Will sure there'd be a few of them. The 650 00:34:04,253 --> 00:34:07,933 Speaker 2: guns coming back into the Mixan final four fourth topic 651 00:34:09,413 --> 00:34:12,293 Speaker 2: CEO chat for the All Black that's from New Zealand Rugby. 652 00:34:13,533 --> 00:34:16,013 Speaker 2: So machinations going on in the background of course, Mike 653 00:34:16,093 --> 00:34:18,933 Speaker 2: Robinson you'd leave soon ish from his role. What are 654 00:34:18,933 --> 00:34:20,653 Speaker 2: you hearing, Limb you've reported on this in the last 655 00:34:20,653 --> 00:34:21,173 Speaker 2: few days. 656 00:34:21,373 --> 00:34:24,453 Speaker 3: There's a few developments there. All Lett that Matt Robinson 657 00:34:24,453 --> 00:34:27,893 Speaker 3: resigned four months ago and Sneeze On Rugby just held 658 00:34:28,573 --> 00:34:32,453 Speaker 3: interviews last week. They've appointed an interim CEO, Steve Lancaster, 659 00:34:32,613 --> 00:34:36,173 Speaker 3: the Community Rugby manager, because it sounds like Matt Robinson 660 00:34:36,213 --> 00:34:40,333 Speaker 3: finishes up in December and whoever they get is going 661 00:34:40,413 --> 00:34:42,133 Speaker 3: to have to serve a notice period, so they're not 662 00:34:42,133 --> 00:34:45,933 Speaker 3: going to have someone a replacement in place before probably 663 00:34:45,933 --> 00:34:51,453 Speaker 3: April next year. So Lancaster will sits in when Robertson finishes. 664 00:34:51,613 --> 00:34:55,533 Speaker 3: I'm hearing David White, the former New Zealand Cricket CEO 665 00:34:55,973 --> 00:34:59,693 Speaker 3: who has interviewed for the role, but the favorite it 666 00:34:59,733 --> 00:35:03,773 Speaker 3: sounds like is the CEO of Six Nations, Tom Harrison. 667 00:35:04,213 --> 00:35:08,093 Speaker 3: He also previously led the English and Welsh Cricket Board, 668 00:35:09,333 --> 00:35:15,173 Speaker 3: so he has experienced leading elite level rugby. His experience 669 00:35:15,453 --> 00:35:19,173 Speaker 3: in private equity and big business deals which I think 670 00:35:19,373 --> 00:35:25,373 Speaker 3: as a major factor that New Zealand Rugby want a 671 00:35:25,413 --> 00:35:28,973 Speaker 3: box for them to tick. But I'll ask you, from 672 00:35:29,253 --> 00:35:32,893 Speaker 3: a cultural rugby perspective, how much of a shift would 673 00:35:32,933 --> 00:35:36,013 Speaker 3: it be to have I guess a brit come and 674 00:35:36,413 --> 00:35:40,413 Speaker 3: lead New Zealand rugby, Particularly with the landscape of New 675 00:35:40,493 --> 00:35:45,013 Speaker 3: Zealand rugby and the dynamic of managing the the twenty 676 00:35:45,053 --> 00:35:47,173 Speaker 3: six provincial unions and how much. 677 00:35:47,173 --> 00:35:50,733 Speaker 2: Power they have, it would be tricky. You're not coming 678 00:35:50,773 --> 00:35:53,133 Speaker 2: in with a lot of institutional knowledge around how the 679 00:35:53,173 --> 00:35:55,893 Speaker 2: game works. You might have a broad idea of the 680 00:35:55,933 --> 00:35:58,813 Speaker 2: New Zealand structure, but in some ways that might be 681 00:35:58,813 --> 00:36:01,493 Speaker 2: a benefit to him that he can oversee things without 682 00:36:01,613 --> 00:36:05,613 Speaker 2: the inherent knowledge of the pus and the super rugby structure. 683 00:36:05,653 --> 00:36:08,453 Speaker 2: And the grassroots level and the women's game and everything that, 684 00:36:08,653 --> 00:36:11,133 Speaker 2: and can look at it from a clean canvas, it 685 00:36:11,133 --> 00:36:12,773 Speaker 2: can come as a bit of an outsider and maybe 686 00:36:12,813 --> 00:36:16,573 Speaker 2: that's what New Zealand rugby needs, is an outsider to 687 00:36:16,613 --> 00:36:20,053 Speaker 2: get the house right and get everything right. I wouldn't 688 00:36:20,093 --> 00:36:22,013 Speaker 2: be against the appointment necessarily to be a lot for 689 00:36:22,093 --> 00:36:24,413 Speaker 2: him to learn. But he comes to the rugby background 690 00:36:24,653 --> 00:36:27,453 Speaker 2: with England Cricket Board or the English and Wales Cricket 691 00:36:27,453 --> 00:36:30,293 Speaker 2: Board as their CEO for a few years as well, 692 00:36:30,373 --> 00:36:33,333 Speaker 2: so I think it'll be a big challenge getting used 693 00:36:33,333 --> 00:36:35,173 Speaker 2: to the New Zealand game, but I wouldn't be against 694 00:36:35,213 --> 00:36:38,453 Speaker 2: it necessarily either. I almost think that outsider would be 695 00:36:38,533 --> 00:36:41,133 Speaker 2: perhaps more preferential to someone like David White, who's held 696 00:36:41,373 --> 00:36:43,733 Speaker 2: a number of roles in New Zealand New Zealand cricket. 697 00:36:43,733 --> 00:36:45,573 Speaker 2: He was there for I think about a decade. In 698 00:36:45,613 --> 00:36:49,453 Speaker 2: the end, he's got the knowledge of how New Zealand 699 00:36:49,533 --> 00:36:50,853 Speaker 2: rugby works. I think he's at the Blues and the 700 00:36:50,973 --> 00:36:56,333 Speaker 2: Hurricanes of Wellington and Auckland potentially no doubting his credentials, 701 00:36:56,373 --> 00:36:59,653 Speaker 2: but I almost think that there would be a tired 702 00:36:59,733 --> 00:37:04,213 Speaker 2: appointment compared to someone like the Six Nation CEO. Someone 703 00:37:04,333 --> 00:37:07,013 Speaker 2: outsider can look at things a little bit differently, so 704 00:37:07,173 --> 00:37:09,013 Speaker 2: be intering see what happens there. It's think Lancaster has 705 00:37:09,013 --> 00:37:09,933 Speaker 2: got to be the interim CEEO. 706 00:37:10,333 --> 00:37:15,053 Speaker 3: That's right, Yeah, certainly for at least three months. From 707 00:37:15,053 --> 00:37:18,533 Speaker 3: what I understand is a few nerves around, you know, 708 00:37:18,653 --> 00:37:22,053 Speaker 3: someone like Tom Harrison coming in and whether that would 709 00:37:22,453 --> 00:37:25,573 Speaker 3: pave the way for the Ragby Championship to move to 710 00:37:26,013 --> 00:37:29,573 Speaker 3: align with the Six Nations and those sorts of things. 711 00:37:29,653 --> 00:37:31,773 Speaker 3: So there's a lot of balls in the air, and 712 00:37:32,693 --> 00:37:36,053 Speaker 3: you know, as with any of these appointments, a lot 713 00:37:36,053 --> 00:37:38,893 Speaker 3: of speculation behind the scenes about what it might mean 714 00:37:38,933 --> 00:37:41,693 Speaker 3: for various people. So interesting to see where it goes. 715 00:37:41,733 --> 00:37:43,973 Speaker 3: News on Rugby's adamant they're going to make an appointment 716 00:37:44,053 --> 00:37:48,413 Speaker 3: pre Christmas, but whoever it is, it won't be in 717 00:37:48,453 --> 00:37:52,773 Speaker 3: place before April, so Lancaster will hold the fort. But yeah, 718 00:37:52,933 --> 00:37:55,493 Speaker 3: interesting to see what comes out in the next couple 719 00:37:55,533 --> 00:37:55,813 Speaker 3: of months. 720 00:37:55,933 --> 00:37:59,493 Speaker 2: Watch the space that'll do us for Ragby Direct from Chicago. 721 00:37:59,573 --> 00:38:01,733 Speaker 2: Look forward to catching up a bit later on in 722 00:38:01,853 --> 00:38:05,213 Speaker 2: the week from Edinburgh. Le made to thank you, as 723 00:38:05,253 --> 00:38:07,933 Speaker 2: always thanks to carry Shaw for producing that has been 724 00:38:08,013 --> 00:38:11,133 Speaker 2: Rapied reck Haired by Excess Solutions celebrating twenty five years 725 00:38:11,173 --> 00:38:11,693 Speaker 2: in business. 726 00:38:16,493 --> 00:38:19,133 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks, ed B, listen live on 727 00:38:19,213 --> 00:38:22,213 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 728 00:38:22,253 --> 00:38:24,813 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio