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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine

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Speaker 1: from News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 2: So an early return to New Zealand now looking highly

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Speaker 2: unlikely for fifty six Test All Blacks First five Richie

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Speaker 2: mu Woonga, his Japanese club to Sheba and New Zealand

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Speaker 2: Rugby were in talks to four go the final year

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Speaker 2: of his three year contract, but those discussions have stalled

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Speaker 2: and despite All Blacks coach Scott Robertson Robertson rather being

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Speaker 2: very keen to have his Crusaders quarterback as he used

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Speaker 2: to call him back in July, the earliest Richie Mwonga

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Speaker 2: can return to the All Blacks looks like it will

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Speaker 2: be the middle of next year, the middle of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty six. To kick this around, let's bring a News

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Speaker 2: Talks ED B Rugby editor Elliot Smith. Elliott, first of all,

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Speaker 2: when you heard this news during the week that an

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Speaker 2: agreement had not been reached, did that come as a surprise.

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Speaker 3: It did a bit piney, to be honest with you,

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Speaker 3: because from what I'd heard towards the middle to later

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Speaker 3: point of last year, things were on track and there

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Speaker 3: was a relative sense of not comfort, but there was

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Speaker 3: some confidence that Richie Moonger would be back in New

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Speaker 3: Zealand at some point in twenty twenty five. I guess

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Speaker 3: when the smoke signals stopped happening and the chatter died down,

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Speaker 3: that perhaps became more obvious that this was taking a

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Speaker 3: little bit longer than expected, and certainly had died down

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Speaker 3: in terms of the chatter on that front. So at

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Speaker 3: a certain point last year looked like it was more

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Speaker 3: likely than not that he was coming home. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think overall a bit of a surprise that Richie

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Speaker 3: Wonger won't be back in New Zealand Rugby this year.

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Speaker 3: Scott Robertson certainly wanted him back. New Zealand Rugby were

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Speaker 3: did keen on getting him back, and I think Richie

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Speaker 3: Wonger was certainly open to the idea as well. But

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Speaker 3: ultimately New Zealand Rugby is going to have to wait

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Speaker 3: now and look at the alternate plans for this year

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Speaker 3: and the All Blacks.

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Speaker 2: So why couldn't they reach a deal?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it has to be down to money.

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Speaker 3: That's the only thing that I can possibly think. He's

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Speaker 3: signed a deal with Tashiba. He's there for three years.

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Speaker 3: That's what he agreed to at the back end of

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two. He would have had to leave early

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Speaker 3: to come back to New Zealand Rugby early, and would

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Speaker 3: have had to change his contract in some way, whether

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Speaker 3: it be financial compensation, which would be the most likely,

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Speaker 3: or perhaps they could have worked out some deferral of

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Speaker 3: his contracts through to maybe after the Rugby World Cup.

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Speaker 3: But I still think that would have included some form

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Speaker 3: of financial compensation. So when you've got Tasheba, who have

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Speaker 3: got him locked down on a multimillion dollar deal for

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Speaker 3: three seasons, they've got the marketing around him, they've got

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Speaker 3: pictures of him obviously in their shirt. He's won them

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Speaker 3: a title, they don't want to let him go particularly easily,

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Speaker 3: and New Zealand Rugby would have had to come to

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Speaker 3: the party and figured out some sort of arrangement. Now,

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Speaker 3: the report this week suggested that to seive it weren't

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Speaker 3: necessarily against the idea, but they would have had a

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Speaker 3: number or a clause and mind as to it would

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Speaker 3: have taken for Richie Muonga to come home early. They

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Speaker 3: haven't been able to meet on that front. And now

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Speaker 3: the wedding game goes on for New Zealand Rugby to

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Speaker 3: Sheeber at least know that the ongoing season in Japan

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Speaker 3: League One they'll have him till the end, which they

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Speaker 3: were always going to, but they'll have him for another

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Speaker 3: season as well now, which continues their ability to plan

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Speaker 3: getting into to next season.

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Speaker 2: Why is Scott Robertson so intent on bringing Richie wong

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Speaker 2: a home early?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think you look at his Crusaders record and go,

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Speaker 3: this is the player that he trusted and gave the

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Speaker 3: keys to the team two for seven seasons straight and

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Speaker 3: delivered a trophy of some form in every season there.

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Speaker 3: So I think that's why, and he believes that he

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Speaker 3: can unlock that again at All Blacks level. I think

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Speaker 3: Scott Robertson has developed a game plan in mind at

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Speaker 3: the Crusaders that he's begun to put into place at

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Speaker 3: All Blacks level that would suit Richie Moong's style of play.

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Speaker 3: We didn't see all of that in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 3: but I think that's the player that he wants and

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Speaker 3: believes he's the vital key to delivering the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: World Cup success come twenty twenty seven. Now, of course,

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Speaker 3: Richie Wonger left before Scott Robinson even got the All

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Speaker 3: Blacks job. That's how far back we're talking now in

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Speaker 3: terms of when things were signed. It was the end

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Speaker 3: of twenty twenty two that Richie wong has signed for Toshiba,

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Speaker 3: and he obviously joined after the twenty twenty three World Cup.

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Speaker 3: Scott Robinson was announced as All Backs coach in the

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Speaker 3: twenty first of March twenty twenty three. So there's been

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Speaker 3: a lot of water, a lot of time to go

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Speaker 3: under the bridge. But Scott Robinson has always known that

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Speaker 3: Richie Monger wouldn't be there for at least the first season.

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Speaker 3: There was conversations as we talked about around getting in

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Speaker 3: for the second season. But it has not been a

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Speaker 3: surprise that Richie Wonger has not been there for the

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Speaker 3: All Blacks. It wasn't like he signed after Scott Robinson

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Speaker 3: had begun as planning. So there needs to be I guess,

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Speaker 3: you know, a look towards playing some other players in

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Speaker 3: that which we've seen this year. Obviously Boden Barrett and

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Speaker 3: Damien McKenzie. They're going to get more time to audition

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Speaker 3: this year come season twenty twenty five. Now Richie Wonger

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Speaker 3: won't be at the Helm this year.

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Speaker 2: You alluded to it before, but maybe just slightly expand

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Speaker 2: on Richie Wonger's mindset here. Do you think he wanted

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Speaker 2: to come home this year.

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Speaker 3: I think he was certainly open to the idea. I

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Speaker 3: know he gave some media interviews last July around the

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Speaker 3: fact and mentioned that obviously he did sign before Scott

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Speaker 3: Robertson had become All Blacks coach, the forger stromp partnership

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Speaker 3: at the Crusaders obviously, and as you mentioned, Scott Robertson

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Speaker 3: called Richie Wonger his franchise quarterback, so there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of trust there in that level. And you know, if

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Speaker 3: Richie Wonger had his time over again, maybe he wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have signed a three year deal. Maybe he would have

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Speaker 3: only gone for two and we'd be having this discussion

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Speaker 3: that Richie Wonger potentially is coming back in the middle

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Speaker 3: of the year. This is all you know, if, what's

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Speaker 3: maybe and you know, hypotheticals, really the fact as he

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Speaker 3: did sign that deal and probably there's a sense of

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Speaker 3: you know what if. For Richie Moore, he was open

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Speaker 3: to the prospect, as my understanding, but obviously didn't want

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Speaker 3: to upsee this current employers t Shiva, because he signed

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Speaker 3: the deal with them, and you know he's getting well

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Speaker 3: compensated for going over and doing so. So there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of plates in the air and juggling for Richie

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Speaker 3: Moonger to do. Obviously he's enjoying life in Japan. He's

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Speaker 3: won them a title already. But I think he would

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Speaker 3: definitely be keen to come back and play for the

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Speaker 3: All Blacks once again, knowing it was under Scott Robertson.

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Speaker 2: How will this saga be leaving Bowden Barrett and particularly

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Speaker 2: Damien McKenzie feeling when the All Blacks coach is off

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Speaker 2: chasing somebody else.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think there will certainly be a sense

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Speaker 3: of well, look, we delivered a number of wins last year.

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Speaker 3: Damien McKenzie started against Ireland, which was seen as you know,

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Speaker 3: one of the beachmarks of last year along with those

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Speaker 3: South African Tests, and Damien McKenzie came back from an

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Speaker 3: Barrett injury and started that Test and performed very very well.

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Speaker 3: We saw signs from Bowden Barrett as well once he

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Speaker 3: was given the keys to the team in the latter

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Speaker 3: part of the year. What he certainly came beloved, So

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Speaker 3: I think they'll be, you know, perhaps on the inside

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Speaker 3: quite perhaps happy that Richie and Loong is going to

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Speaker 3: be at least another year away from coming back to

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Speaker 3: New Zealand. So they'll get another chance you had think

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Speaker 3: to audition this year. Barring perhaps a breakout star or

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Speaker 3: a dominant Super Rugby season from someone that's unheralded, they're

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Speaker 3: going to get another season to show their whares and

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Speaker 3: perhaps go, well, look, you know, I deserve to be

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Speaker 3: the first choice player come twenty twenty six. In twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty seven, I guess there'll be a bit of frustration

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Speaker 3: that a lot of this conversation has been held about

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Speaker 3: a player that has not been in the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: squad now for more than a year, has not played

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Speaker 3: under Scott Robertson as an All Black, yet has dominated

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Speaker 3: so much of the rugby conversation over the last eighteen

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Speaker 3: months since the year decided to go to Japan.

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Speaker 2: So do you think this is the end of it, Elliott?

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Speaker 2: In terms of this saga, There's not going to be

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Speaker 2: a reopening of discussions now. Scott Robertson just focuses on

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Speaker 2: what he has and we wait for mid twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: six for Richie Wonger.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe the way

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Speaker 3: this has gone and the twist and turns finey, we

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Speaker 3: very well might have another twist in the tail as yet.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're in the middle of the Tashiba season

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Speaker 3: at the moment. Is a bye weekend in Japan League

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Speaker 3: at the moment. If I wouldn't rule out perhaps another discussion,

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Speaker 3: I think it'd probably be unlikely. But let's not rule

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Speaker 3: anything out. And the other thing is as well, is

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Speaker 3: that who's to say that Richim Wanga will necessarily come

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Speaker 3: back in twenty twenty six. I mean, all the signs

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Speaker 3: are there. We've talked about it that he wants to

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Speaker 3: come back to New Zealand rugby. But if Dashiba says, look,

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Speaker 3: you've landed us the title. It might be two by

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Speaker 3: the end of the season. Who knows, we want you

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Speaker 3: to stick around for another three or four years. Here's

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Speaker 3: the price. Who's to say that Richim Wanger won't come

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Speaker 3: back or won't stay at Dashiba and decide not to

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Speaker 3: come back to New Zealand rugby at all. This is

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Speaker 3: a saga that I don't think he's finished by a

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Speaker 3: long shot.

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Speaker 2: Pine It all right, lots to chat about. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: our listeners will have their views which we can take now.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for starting the conversation for us.

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Speaker 3: Elliott, pleasure find me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks mate, that's Elliot Smith, our rugby edit to hear

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Speaker 2: at News Talks EDB match commentator as well. Who'll be

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Speaker 2: in charge of all of the All Blacks Test matches

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five, but none of them are going

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Speaker 2: to feature Richie Moonga.

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Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live

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Speaker 1: to News Talks EDB weekends from midday or follow the

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Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio