1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,279 Speaker 1: The vape battle rolls on. Health New Zealand is currently 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: in a procurement process. They want regulated partners to supply 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: vape kits to people looking to quit. So the government's 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: going to pay for your vaping now. The pods would 5 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: range from zero to twenty eight point five megs of nicotine. 6 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: It would come yes, that's right, in three flavors, menthol cinnamon, 7 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: and blueberry. Health Health News Health New Zealand won't tell 8 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: us whether this is a continuation of its earlier pilot 9 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: program or not. Anyway, Doctor Kelly Burrows is the lead 10 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: researcher're in vaping for the Auckland University Bioengineering Institute and 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: is with us. Kelly morning, good morning. 12 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 2: I'm glad that you are laughing about it as well. 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: Well what else can we do? 14 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: Mean? 15 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: What else? 16 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: Exactly? 17 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: For goodness sake? So what's the state of vaping as 18 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: you understand it in this country? Is are we winning 19 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: or not? 20 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: I do not think we are winning. So in New 21 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: Zealand we've got some of the highest vaping rates in 22 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: the world and it's very much because the government and 23 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: now Health New Zealand are really promoting vaping and supporting it. 24 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: As you know, a kind of healthier product. I mean 25 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: it it hopefully is healthier than smoking, but that's not 26 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: a very high benchmark because smoking is one of the 27 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 2: worst things in the world for you. But the fact 28 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: is that we don't know what the long term health 29 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: effects are of vaping. But there are many, many studies 30 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 2: coming out every day that are showing that there are 31 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: there are negative health effects in the short term and 32 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: even in the medium term. Now, so I think, I mean, 33 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: I think just by supporting these products, it's really I mean, 34 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 2: up something that's really uncertain. I mean around the world. 35 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: The World Health Organization, a similar organization in the US 36 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: and the UK. You know, they don't support vaporing for 37 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 2: smoking station programs, other recommended you know, there are approved 38 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: methods that are safe to help people get off smoking. 39 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think Health New Zealand's really sending the wrong, 40 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: wrong message by supporting these products and now paying for them. 41 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: But I also think the flavorings you know that. 42 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: You laughed at that that's the same. 43 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: Actually, cinnamon is one of the you know, one of 44 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: the flavoring added that's been found to be quite toxic 45 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: to cells and sort of seale based studies. I mean 46 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: around the world, a lot of countries are starting to 47 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: ban all flavors apart from tobacco flavor inges, and you know, 48 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: I think that that's the approach we should go. And 49 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: I think also, I mean in Australia, they've sort of 50 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,279 Speaker 2: got a pharmaceutical vape right, so that's a very regulated, 51 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 2: well understood vape product that is sort of registered as 52 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: medical device. I mean, I think if Houth New Zealand 53 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: wants to take this approach, we need to. We can't 54 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: just be buying them from vape companies not really knowing 55 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: what's in them and needs copper. 56 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: I don't know how politically whether this is your wheelhouse 57 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: or not, but Casey Costello, who's sort of in charge 58 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: of all of this, has been under fire for the 59 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: last couple of years with her general approach to this. 60 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: Is that part of the problem or is that completely separate? 61 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: Do you think? 62 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't know. I do think there's some suspicious 63 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: stuff going on those, you know, the heat not burn 64 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: products that she was supporting. There's no evidence that those 65 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: are healthier than smoking, so there's not really much health 66 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: research on those products. Yeah, So I don't know, it 67 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: does things to seem weird. I mean, if the government 68 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: was really focused on the smoke free vision, you know, 69 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 2: why did they repeal those smoke free laws which were 70 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: really world leading and you know people were kind of 71 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 2: in are of them. So and we've got rid of those, 72 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: and yet we're supporting vaping. And I mean vaping rates 73 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: are really high. You know, as many as one and 74 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 2: four people are vaping daily. 75 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Australian pharmacy approach, are they doing something a 76 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: little bit better than us? 77 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: Yes, they are. So they've sort of got a prescription 78 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: only vaps. Yeah, and it's very regulated, it's very controlled. 79 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: They've done all the toxicology, you know, they know it's 80 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: got one flavor, it's got a controlled dose. It's sort 81 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: of in a boring packaged device, you know. So it's 82 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: very much promoted as a smoking cessation pharmaceutical device. I mean, 83 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: I know that in Australia you can still buy vakes 84 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: and you know, pretty easily. But I think at least 85 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: the government and the health health sector over there are 86 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: sending out the right message that it's vaping is for 87 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: smoking tosation, it's not a recreational product. And we don't 88 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: know what the long term health effects will be but 89 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: there is going to be some negative health implications for sure, 90 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: no question. 91 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: Let's talk to you, Kelly appreciate doctor Kelly Burrow, who's 92 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: lead researcher and voping from the University of Auckland Bioengineering Institute. 93 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 2: For more from the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 94 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 2: news talks. 95 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 96 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.