1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Teams podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,733 Speaker 1: from News Talks That Be. 3 00:00:12,853 --> 00:00:16,573 Speaker 2: And Time to catch up with clinical psychologists from Umbrella Wellbeing. 4 00:00:16,773 --> 00:00:21,493 Speaker 2: Google Sutherland is with us this morning. Hey doogle cure Jack. 5 00:00:21,533 --> 00:00:25,733 Speaker 3: Hey, you're speaking my language with the with the bird figure. 6 00:00:25,853 --> 00:00:28,973 Speaker 3: We've got one, like it's right, I can see it 7 00:00:29,053 --> 00:00:31,013 Speaker 3: right now. It's right outside our window and we're lucky 8 00:00:31,093 --> 00:00:33,693 Speaker 3: enough to get I just saw a Peter Waka walker before. 9 00:00:33,733 --> 00:00:37,693 Speaker 3: But we also we daily get visits from kaka. 10 00:00:37,253 --> 00:00:40,973 Speaker 2: Oh do you yeah? You see see that's because you're 11 00:00:41,053 --> 00:00:44,693 Speaker 2: you're in Wellington, right, So that's you get them in Wellington, 12 00:00:44,733 --> 00:00:47,733 Speaker 2: you get them on you get the kaka on Wayhiki 13 00:00:47,773 --> 00:00:50,093 Speaker 2: a little bit on the golf islands, and you don't 14 00:00:50,093 --> 00:00:52,013 Speaker 2: get them in Central Aukland very much. The thing I 15 00:00:52,013 --> 00:00:56,493 Speaker 2: love about the kaka I reckon it's our most dinosaury bird. 16 00:00:58,413 --> 00:01:00,693 Speaker 2: Like the way that I don't know, so, the way 17 00:01:00,733 --> 00:01:04,773 Speaker 2: that it kind of holds it holds its body and 18 00:01:04,773 --> 00:01:07,213 Speaker 2: and shifts its weight and stuff. This something about the carcas. 19 00:01:07,373 --> 00:01:09,373 Speaker 2: I just think it looks so dinosaurian. 20 00:01:10,853 --> 00:01:14,213 Speaker 3: And the screeches that it makes. Yeah, that sounds like 21 00:01:14,413 --> 00:01:16,213 Speaker 3: it sounds like I imagine want to tear. 22 00:01:16,053 --> 00:01:19,373 Speaker 2: A deck towards Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, Yeah, they are. 23 00:01:19,453 --> 00:01:20,093 Speaker 3: They're wonderful. 24 00:01:20,613 --> 00:01:21,373 Speaker 2: Yeah. 25 00:01:22,173 --> 00:01:24,253 Speaker 3: Some ability to see at night, I think too, because 26 00:01:24,333 --> 00:01:25,933 Speaker 3: we can hear them at nights sometimes like in the 27 00:01:25,933 --> 00:01:28,093 Speaker 3: middle of night, and they'll be squawking and flying. 28 00:01:28,453 --> 00:01:30,693 Speaker 2: That's often I think. I wonder if it's their feeding time, 29 00:01:30,773 --> 00:01:33,373 Speaker 2: because you can see them. That's when they often circle 30 00:01:33,613 --> 00:01:35,693 Speaker 2: kind of in the twilight a. You know, So whether 31 00:01:35,733 --> 00:01:39,453 Speaker 2: it's or you know that kind of witching our is 32 00:01:39,453 --> 00:01:41,093 Speaker 2: a is a good time to be a carco I 33 00:01:41,093 --> 00:01:44,813 Speaker 2: think they're feeding, feeding in the wild. Yeah, that's a 34 00:01:44,813 --> 00:01:46,213 Speaker 2: good time, good time for them to feed. 35 00:01:46,653 --> 00:01:47,053 Speaker 1: Anyway. 36 00:01:47,253 --> 00:01:49,293 Speaker 2: Glad that I'm not the only one who gets I 37 00:01:49,373 --> 00:01:51,733 Speaker 2: just get like a disproportionate sense of joy out of it. 38 00:01:51,813 --> 00:01:56,613 Speaker 2: Yeah and yeah, anyway, Hey, so last week or week 39 00:01:56,613 --> 00:01:59,493 Speaker 2: ago now, it was Pink Shirt Day, which is a 40 00:01:59,613 --> 00:02:03,493 Speaker 2: day that you know, as we know, promotes anti bullying measures. 41 00:02:04,413 --> 00:02:05,973 Speaker 2: And this morning we thought it'd be useful to talk 42 00:02:06,453 --> 00:02:08,853 Speaker 2: talk to you about workplace bullying because this is something 43 00:02:08,933 --> 00:02:12,213 Speaker 2: that affects a lot of people. And there's a study 44 00:02:12,253 --> 00:02:15,773 Speaker 2: from Massive University, a twenty twenty three study that reports 45 00:02:15,813 --> 00:02:20,373 Speaker 2: that one in four people experience bullying at least monthly 46 00:02:20,573 --> 00:02:22,733 Speaker 2: in the workplace, So who was most affected. 47 00:02:24,573 --> 00:02:28,573 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it. We know that people are 48 00:02:28,613 --> 00:02:31,493 Speaker 3: the most effective sort of groups of people in the workplace, 49 00:02:32,413 --> 00:02:35,853 Speaker 3: and perhaps it's not hugely surprising it's minority groups depend 50 00:02:36,173 --> 00:02:38,693 Speaker 3: and that the minority will depend a little bit on 51 00:02:38,733 --> 00:02:41,733 Speaker 3: who you are, you know, what, who your workplace is 52 00:02:41,733 --> 00:02:43,813 Speaker 3: made up of. But if you're in a minority within 53 00:02:43,853 --> 00:02:48,653 Speaker 3: your workplace, particularly, you're more likely to be subject to bullying. 54 00:02:48,893 --> 00:02:56,173 Speaker 3: Women and some particular sectors to healthcare, it and also 55 00:02:56,413 --> 00:02:59,933 Speaker 3: organizations where they have different like visible layers of ranks. 56 00:03:00,013 --> 00:03:02,253 Speaker 3: You know, you've got a uniform and you've got three 57 00:03:02,253 --> 00:03:04,533 Speaker 3: pips on your shoulder, and that's better than two pips, 58 00:03:04,533 --> 00:03:07,453 Speaker 3: which is better than one. We know that those are 59 00:03:07,533 --> 00:03:10,573 Speaker 3: environments where where bullying tends to be a bit more common. 60 00:03:10,653 --> 00:03:13,453 Speaker 3: But yeah, one and four people is of a lot 61 00:03:13,493 --> 00:03:15,813 Speaker 3: of people, and I think I think it's still some 62 00:03:15,853 --> 00:03:18,173 Speaker 3: people don't kind of quite realize they think that bullying 63 00:03:18,213 --> 00:03:21,733 Speaker 3: sort of ends in the school yard, but no, it 64 00:03:21,773 --> 00:03:24,493 Speaker 3: certainly continues on into the workplace and have a major 65 00:03:24,493 --> 00:03:27,773 Speaker 3: effect both on you know, people's mental health, and just 66 00:03:27,853 --> 00:03:30,013 Speaker 3: productivity at work as well. If you're always sort of 67 00:03:30,013 --> 00:03:31,973 Speaker 3: worrying and looking over your shoulder, you don't to work 68 00:03:32,093 --> 00:03:32,413 Speaker 3: very hard. 69 00:03:32,493 --> 00:03:37,653 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, So let's talk about practical advice. What should 70 00:03:37,693 --> 00:03:40,493 Speaker 2: you do if you see some you know, something at 71 00:03:40,493 --> 00:03:43,213 Speaker 2: work affecting other people that you think makes you kind 72 00:03:43,213 --> 00:03:45,293 Speaker 2: of uncomfortable, if you're kind of a you know, a 73 00:03:45,333 --> 00:03:48,933 Speaker 2: bystander watching what you think starts workplace bullying. 74 00:03:49,853 --> 00:03:52,333 Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, we really encourage people to be what 75 00:03:52,373 --> 00:03:56,133 Speaker 3: we call active bystanders. Many people will know about the 76 00:03:56,213 --> 00:04:00,413 Speaker 3: sort of the passive bystander effect where because there's a 77 00:04:00,453 --> 00:04:03,053 Speaker 3: whole lot of people around, no individual takes any action 78 00:04:03,133 --> 00:04:05,013 Speaker 3: because it's always you know, we kind of think, oh, 79 00:04:05,293 --> 00:04:07,333 Speaker 3: somebody else would do it, somebody el should do it, 80 00:04:06,933 --> 00:04:09,213 Speaker 3: or because no one else is doing it, I won't 81 00:04:09,253 --> 00:04:11,493 Speaker 3: do it either. But so we really encourage people to 82 00:04:11,533 --> 00:04:15,493 Speaker 3: be active by standards where they can, and you do, 83 00:04:15,533 --> 00:04:17,893 Speaker 3: I acknowledge that you do need to take into accounts 84 00:04:17,933 --> 00:04:20,253 Speaker 3: where you are in an organization, Like if it's your 85 00:04:20,613 --> 00:04:22,613 Speaker 3: second day on the job, when you're the most junior 86 00:04:22,653 --> 00:04:25,333 Speaker 3: person on the floor, it will be pretty difficult for 87 00:04:25,413 --> 00:04:27,333 Speaker 3: you to kind of go up and talk to the 88 00:04:27,333 --> 00:04:29,533 Speaker 3: boss and say, hey, that sounds like bullying to me, sir. 89 00:04:30,613 --> 00:04:34,293 Speaker 3: So I got kind of got four different things to do. Firstly, 90 00:04:34,333 --> 00:04:37,413 Speaker 3: there's the obvious thing, and you can just intervene and say, hey, look, 91 00:04:37,453 --> 00:04:42,613 Speaker 3: I'm really uncomfortable with this conversation and maybe you can 92 00:04:42,653 --> 00:04:46,253 Speaker 3: I suggest that you go take a pause and we'll 93 00:04:46,253 --> 00:04:48,453 Speaker 3: come back to it. So that's the obvious one, is 94 00:04:48,493 --> 00:04:50,853 Speaker 3: that you just step in them say that you're uncomfortable. 95 00:04:52,013 --> 00:04:53,773 Speaker 3: You could do if you're not quite comfortable doing that, 96 00:04:53,813 --> 00:04:56,053 Speaker 3: you could do a kind of distract And what I 97 00:04:56,093 --> 00:05:01,253 Speaker 3: mean by that is getting the attention of the person 98 00:05:01,333 --> 00:05:05,013 Speaker 3: that is often a person that's being the victim of 99 00:05:05,013 --> 00:05:08,813 Speaker 3: the bullying behavior, something like, oh, hey, hey, Jack, I 100 00:05:08,853 --> 00:05:10,773 Speaker 3: just I just need to grab you for something. Sorry 101 00:05:10,813 --> 00:05:12,493 Speaker 3: to interrupt, I just need to grab you for something 102 00:05:12,493 --> 00:05:14,653 Speaker 3: for a second. So you kind of distract from this 103 00:05:15,613 --> 00:05:19,213 Speaker 3: and kind of get them out of it, which which 104 00:05:19,253 --> 00:05:21,093 Speaker 3: is you know that that that's cool and that that 105 00:05:21,133 --> 00:05:24,813 Speaker 3: can be helpful. You might want to delegate, and that 106 00:05:24,893 --> 00:05:27,693 Speaker 3: might be particularly if you're feeling you know that there's 107 00:05:27,693 --> 00:05:29,773 Speaker 3: a bit of a power hierarchy at play here and 108 00:05:29,813 --> 00:05:31,533 Speaker 3: you're at the bottom. You might want to talk to 109 00:05:31,653 --> 00:05:35,173 Speaker 3: a colleague or you know, a senior colleague or maybe 110 00:05:35,173 --> 00:05:37,733 Speaker 3: even your manager or your leader, just to you know, 111 00:05:37,853 --> 00:05:39,773 Speaker 3: somebody who you feel has got a little bit more 112 00:05:39,853 --> 00:05:44,133 Speaker 3: sway in the situation. And then lastly, you can always 113 00:05:44,133 --> 00:05:47,533 Speaker 3: delay it, like you know, if you if particularly you 114 00:05:47,573 --> 00:05:49,693 Speaker 3: know how sometimes you kind of see it a behavior 115 00:05:49,693 --> 00:05:52,493 Speaker 3: in the workplace and it feels uncomfortable, but you're not 116 00:05:52,573 --> 00:05:54,853 Speaker 3: quite sure what to do, and then you're well off 117 00:05:54,933 --> 00:05:57,773 Speaker 3: for the rest of the day and go, I really 118 00:05:57,773 --> 00:06:00,733 Speaker 3: think I should Yeah, I really think I should do something, so, 119 00:06:01,333 --> 00:06:04,053 Speaker 3: you know, act on that urge and go and perhaps 120 00:06:04,133 --> 00:06:06,973 Speaker 3: talk to the person that was that was believe in 121 00:06:07,253 --> 00:06:09,813 Speaker 3: and just ask them about that and if there's anything 122 00:06:09,853 --> 00:06:12,453 Speaker 3: you can do to support it. So I think, you know, 123 00:06:12,573 --> 00:06:16,933 Speaker 3: really wanting to encourage people to be active and make 124 00:06:16,973 --> 00:06:20,093 Speaker 3: active choices rather than just ignore it or make the 125 00:06:20,133 --> 00:06:22,413 Speaker 3: other thing that we hear often as people making excuses. 126 00:06:22,453 --> 00:06:25,933 Speaker 3: You know, it's like oh, you know, just choosing a 127 00:06:25,973 --> 00:06:29,173 Speaker 3: random name, Oh that's just Winston, that you'll just kind 128 00:06:29,173 --> 00:06:31,373 Speaker 3: of get used to it. You know, it's like, oh, 129 00:06:31,533 --> 00:06:34,253 Speaker 3: do we get just get used to that sort of behavior. 130 00:06:35,333 --> 00:06:38,173 Speaker 3: So just encouraging people to sort of to act, you know, 131 00:06:38,213 --> 00:06:42,413 Speaker 3: you've had your pink cupcakes Friday week ago, and that's 132 00:06:42,453 --> 00:06:45,253 Speaker 3: great for all raising awareness. But let's let's not let 133 00:06:45,293 --> 00:06:48,293 Speaker 3: it end there. Let's let's make Pink Shirt Day the 134 00:06:48,453 --> 00:06:51,413 Speaker 3: start of something that you can actively do at your place. Yeah. 135 00:06:51,453 --> 00:06:53,213 Speaker 2: I think that makes a lot of sense, I reckon, 136 00:06:53,573 --> 00:06:57,973 Speaker 2: Given kiwis aren't always the best being confrontational, the distraction 137 00:06:57,973 --> 00:06:58,933 Speaker 2: thing could be a good option. 138 00:07:00,293 --> 00:07:03,453 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I think that fits off and well with us. Right, 139 00:07:03,613 --> 00:07:07,853 Speaker 3: So we don't we're not necessarily great about jumping in. Yeah, 140 00:07:07,933 --> 00:07:10,453 Speaker 3: and and and maybe you don't have to, and that's okay, 141 00:07:10,453 --> 00:07:12,893 Speaker 3: But I think being active, just not letting it. 142 00:07:12,813 --> 00:07:15,453 Speaker 2: Go, really is the critical part. 143 00:07:15,573 --> 00:07:15,773 Speaker 1: Yeah. 144 00:07:15,853 --> 00:07:18,573 Speaker 2: Hey, thanks Doigle. Appreciated as always. Google Sutherland is a 145 00:07:18,573 --> 00:07:21,773 Speaker 2: clinical psychologist with Umbrella Wellbeing. 146 00:07:22,693 --> 00:07:25,813 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live 147 00:07:25,893 --> 00:07:28,733 Speaker 1: to News Talks d B from nine am Saturday, or 148 00:07:28,773 --> 00:07:30,693 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.