1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:17,013 Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:19,293 --> 00:00:32,933 Speaker 2: Straight Down the Middle, Squad, Try. 4 00:00:28,493 --> 00:00:33,213 Speaker 1: Bucket, Inside the Game from Every Angle. It's Rugby Direct 5 00:00:33,333 --> 00:00:37,053 Speaker 1: with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB. 6 00:00:37,733 --> 00:00:40,013 Speaker 3: Welcome in too, Rugby Direct palund By four Clips Solutions 7 00:00:40,053 --> 00:00:43,733 Speaker 3: lifting you and your business to a higher level. Elliott 8 00:00:43,733 --> 00:00:46,893 Speaker 3: Smith with me Liam Napier out of the New Zealand Heralds. 9 00:00:47,493 --> 00:00:50,253 Speaker 3: Back in New Zealand, it's raining, but we have our 10 00:00:50,293 --> 00:00:53,733 Speaker 3: All Blacks Ends of Year Tour squad to dissect and 11 00:00:53,773 --> 00:00:56,453 Speaker 3: the All Black fifteen End of Year Tour Squad to 12 00:00:56,693 --> 00:01:01,413 Speaker 3: dissect as well. Some surprises to an extent, but not 13 00:01:01,533 --> 00:01:04,973 Speaker 3: many from that All Black squad, but some breaking news 14 00:01:04,973 --> 00:01:07,373 Speaker 3: as we go to record this podcast, Liam that Patrick 15 00:01:07,413 --> 00:01:09,293 Speaker 3: three belong to is our of the All Blacks End 16 00:01:09,413 --> 00:01:13,053 Speaker 3: of Year Tour squad with an ac joint injury. He's 17 00:01:13,093 --> 00:01:15,573 Speaker 3: going to require surgery and that needs a round about 18 00:01:15,573 --> 00:01:18,213 Speaker 3: six months a ref So for the All Blacks, that's 19 00:01:18,213 --> 00:01:21,773 Speaker 3: a real blow your top line thoughts on that before 20 00:01:21,813 --> 00:01:23,973 Speaker 3: we dig a little bit deeper into the squad itself. 21 00:01:24,293 --> 00:01:27,933 Speaker 4: Yeah, massive blow. Elliott Patrick two plow too very experienced 22 00:01:27,933 --> 00:01:32,413 Speaker 4: lock and has sort of owned that leading the bench 23 00:01:32,533 --> 00:01:35,053 Speaker 4: role the impact role in recent times for the All Blacks. 24 00:01:35,093 --> 00:01:38,413 Speaker 4: And it is significant because two Provi is already out, 25 00:01:38,533 --> 00:01:43,213 Speaker 4: so to provise your starting lock alongside Scott Barrett's and 26 00:01:43,253 --> 00:01:46,013 Speaker 4: then two Plow is your man off the bench. So 27 00:01:46,373 --> 00:01:48,893 Speaker 4: two locks down and it's not an area of great 28 00:01:48,933 --> 00:01:53,253 Speaker 4: strength and depth for New Zealand rugby. So Sam Therey 29 00:01:53,293 --> 00:01:56,093 Speaker 4: comes into the mix. But I think you lose a 30 00:01:56,133 --> 00:02:01,053 Speaker 4: lot of physicality too. Pro Vi strong at the breakdown. 31 00:02:01,813 --> 00:02:04,933 Speaker 4: He's called the line out in recent years, and Patrick 32 00:02:04,933 --> 00:02:08,773 Speaker 4: two polo to big, physical, strong, calm presence off the bench. 33 00:02:08,813 --> 00:02:11,013 Speaker 4: So two big blows, two big blows. 34 00:02:11,013 --> 00:02:15,173 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Sam Derry comes into the squad probably thought he 35 00:02:15,173 --> 00:02:16,813 Speaker 3: should have gone closed in the first place. I think 36 00:02:16,853 --> 00:02:19,053 Speaker 3: he's got a bit more about him than Josh Lord, 37 00:02:19,733 --> 00:02:22,493 Speaker 3: but they went with Lord and now probably both of 38 00:02:22,533 --> 00:02:23,813 Speaker 3: them are going to get a bit of game time 39 00:02:23,893 --> 00:02:27,533 Speaker 3: on this end of year tour. Whether Derry comes straight 40 00:02:27,573 --> 00:02:30,653 Speaker 3: in and replaces to Plot two for that bench role 41 00:02:31,053 --> 00:02:33,133 Speaker 3: is going to be interesting, or whether they believe that 42 00:02:33,213 --> 00:02:36,013 Speaker 3: Josh Lord can fulfill it. But neither I would say, 43 00:02:37,053 --> 00:02:39,053 Speaker 3: like for like in terms of that bench impact that 44 00:02:39,893 --> 00:02:40,253 Speaker 3: is offered. 45 00:02:40,653 --> 00:02:43,693 Speaker 4: No, not at all. And look, Lord's a guy that's 46 00:02:43,733 --> 00:02:47,093 Speaker 4: been around that environment for a number of years now 47 00:02:47,213 --> 00:02:52,053 Speaker 4: but is perennially injured, so wouldn't be surprised to see 48 00:02:52,093 --> 00:02:54,173 Speaker 4: him take a knock on this tour and potentially need 49 00:02:54,213 --> 00:02:58,133 Speaker 4: another replacement. But you'd think that he's ahead of Darry 50 00:02:58,173 --> 00:03:01,333 Speaker 4: and the queue for that bench role and it's a 51 00:03:01,373 --> 00:03:04,573 Speaker 4: big ass for him to come in and lead the 52 00:03:04,573 --> 00:03:07,853 Speaker 4: bench in the same manner that to Polotu has in 53 00:03:07,893 --> 00:03:08,333 Speaker 4: recent time. 54 00:03:08,453 --> 00:03:10,613 Speaker 3: Here's one for you. Could they use Semer Penny female, 55 00:03:10,653 --> 00:03:13,813 Speaker 3: who interestingly has been listed as lock cover for the squad. 56 00:03:14,453 --> 00:03:18,773 Speaker 3: Is that bench player that impact role can obviously also 57 00:03:18,773 --> 00:03:20,893 Speaker 3: play sex as well that maybe toy p Lot two. 58 00:03:21,053 --> 00:03:24,013 Speaker 3: Is he more on that toy p Lot two vibe 59 00:03:24,493 --> 00:03:26,133 Speaker 3: than perhaps a Darry or a Lord. 60 00:03:26,533 --> 00:03:29,053 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think he is is a good points. His 61 00:03:29,213 --> 00:03:33,853 Speaker 4: versatility has probably been an asset that's seen him retained 62 00:03:33,853 --> 00:03:36,093 Speaker 4: in the squad. We haven't seen a lot of some 63 00:03:36,213 --> 00:03:39,653 Speaker 4: Penny female at all this season. I think he I 64 00:03:39,693 --> 00:03:43,493 Speaker 4: thought he was reasonably impressive in the third Test against 65 00:03:43,533 --> 00:03:46,213 Speaker 4: France and Hamilton, but I don't think he's featured since 66 00:03:47,333 --> 00:03:53,533 Speaker 4: and it does elevate him. And the issue with Summer 67 00:03:53,573 --> 00:03:57,573 Speaker 4: Pennie is he's not a Locke's not his first choice 68 00:03:57,653 --> 00:03:59,853 Speaker 4: role and you give up a bit of height, so 69 00:03:59,893 --> 00:04:04,053 Speaker 4: you're sacrificing physicality and power and ball carrying. That's what 70 00:04:04,173 --> 00:04:08,533 Speaker 4: he brings for lineout ability, so at the back end 71 00:04:08,533 --> 00:04:11,733 Speaker 4: of a test set piece is really important. I'm not 72 00:04:11,773 --> 00:04:14,333 Speaker 4: saying some of Penny Finale isn't proficient at the lineout, 73 00:04:14,333 --> 00:04:17,173 Speaker 4: but that little bit of heights can make a big difference. 74 00:04:17,213 --> 00:04:19,493 Speaker 3: Ye him coming through and being pointed out to me, 75 00:04:19,533 --> 00:04:21,733 Speaker 3: I think by Steve Gordon Formal Black's Lock himself that 76 00:04:21,773 --> 00:04:23,733 Speaker 3: he was a real up and comer and largely him 77 00:04:23,733 --> 00:04:25,773 Speaker 3: playing lock to that point, but just doesn't have that 78 00:04:26,213 --> 00:04:28,733 Speaker 3: height to play at Test level, I don't think on 79 00:04:28,773 --> 00:04:31,093 Speaker 3: a regular basis, but they may be able to compensate 80 00:04:31,133 --> 00:04:33,653 Speaker 3: for that some way if he's coming off the bench. 81 00:04:34,253 --> 00:04:36,133 Speaker 3: Your thoughts on that all Black squad that was named 82 00:04:36,413 --> 00:04:40,253 Speaker 3: on Monday Initially very few surprises in that All Blacks squad. 83 00:04:40,733 --> 00:04:45,253 Speaker 3: Those hunting for bolters would be largely disappointed. What did 84 00:04:45,293 --> 00:04:46,133 Speaker 3: you make of that squad? 85 00:04:46,493 --> 00:04:49,653 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, it was highly predictable, wasn't it. There's 86 00:04:49,653 --> 00:04:53,413 Speaker 4: probably two selections that stand out. I guess George Belle 87 00:04:53,533 --> 00:04:57,413 Speaker 4: coming in for Brody McAllister, and I don't see that 88 00:04:57,413 --> 00:05:01,133 Speaker 4: as a surprise. Brody struggled this year off the bench 89 00:05:01,173 --> 00:05:04,453 Speaker 4: in two tests, in particular with his line out throwing, 90 00:05:04,893 --> 00:05:08,013 Speaker 4: and George bell has been injured for much of the 91 00:05:08,093 --> 00:05:12,933 Speaker 4: Chris season. Was probably ahead of Brody, Butts just hadn't 92 00:05:12,933 --> 00:05:15,573 Speaker 4: had the game time, so that change sort of makes sense. 93 00:05:16,173 --> 00:05:19,533 Speaker 4: Suffer Alma I would have ahead of them both, but 94 00:05:19,693 --> 00:05:24,493 Speaker 4: he's struggling with concussions, didn't play a lot for Wellington 95 00:05:24,533 --> 00:05:27,013 Speaker 4: this season. And then there was the final line call 96 00:05:27,093 --> 00:05:31,173 Speaker 4: between Josh Lords and Sam Darry, which is now a 97 00:05:31,213 --> 00:05:33,293 Speaker 4: bit negligent because they're both going to be in the squad, 98 00:05:33,373 --> 00:05:36,133 Speaker 4: so no great surprises. I would have liked to have 99 00:05:36,133 --> 00:05:38,533 Speaker 4: seen them evolve this squad a bit more guys like 100 00:05:38,573 --> 00:05:41,853 Speaker 4: Seva Reese. I think his time's done. I think I 101 00:05:41,893 --> 00:05:46,253 Speaker 4: would have wanted to see a tonguey towel a fee hackey, 102 00:05:46,453 --> 00:05:50,253 Speaker 4: like give someone an opportunity. But I can understand the 103 00:05:50,293 --> 00:05:54,333 Speaker 4: thinking and that those guys will probably benefit more from 104 00:05:54,373 --> 00:05:58,373 Speaker 4: game time with the all Blacks fifteen. What about you? 105 00:05:58,413 --> 00:06:00,373 Speaker 4: Is there anyone else that you wanted to see in 106 00:06:00,413 --> 00:06:02,733 Speaker 4: the squad or left out of the squad? 107 00:06:02,853 --> 00:06:05,853 Speaker 3: For me, I think they're obviously carrying Finlay Christie and 108 00:06:06,973 --> 00:06:09,333 Speaker 3: I've seen comments from Justin Marsh and others. Look, I 109 00:06:09,333 --> 00:06:11,093 Speaker 3: don't think Phila Christy's going to be there in twenty 110 00:06:11,133 --> 00:06:15,693 Speaker 3: twenty seven, and so you're carrying him. But as an 111 00:06:15,773 --> 00:06:17,853 Speaker 3: insurance policy, I guess it's. 112 00:06:17,733 --> 00:06:20,213 Speaker 4: A bit like Peter and Nara to an extent last year. 113 00:06:20,293 --> 00:06:23,453 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you know, I don't think he's going to 114 00:06:23,493 --> 00:06:25,173 Speaker 3: see too much game time on this tour. He might 115 00:06:25,173 --> 00:06:29,453 Speaker 3: play against Wales potentially off the bench, but it's an 116 00:06:29,493 --> 00:06:32,653 Speaker 3: insurance policy and they want to see the likes of 117 00:06:32,653 --> 00:06:34,453 Speaker 3: those halfbacks that are getting game time with the All 118 00:06:34,453 --> 00:06:37,253 Speaker 3: Blacks fifteen. In Kyle Preston, who obviously met his debut 119 00:06:37,333 --> 00:06:40,213 Speaker 3: this year. Zavia Row hasn't in Flafakataba, but his time 120 00:06:40,253 --> 00:06:43,293 Speaker 3: has come again after three years out in the All 121 00:06:43,293 --> 00:06:45,933 Speaker 3: Blacks wilderness. You know, get some game time for them 122 00:06:45,973 --> 00:06:48,173 Speaker 3: under the belts. You suspect on the basis of that 123 00:06:48,173 --> 00:06:50,373 Speaker 3: that all three of them will probably start a game 124 00:06:50,373 --> 00:06:53,693 Speaker 3: each and they'll rotate bench rolls around that, whereas Phila 125 00:06:53,773 --> 00:06:55,973 Speaker 3: Chresty's probably not going to get much more than twenty 126 00:06:56,053 --> 00:07:00,253 Speaker 3: minutes if plans roll out as expected across this tour. 127 00:07:00,333 --> 00:07:03,213 Speaker 3: So I can see it from that perspective, but I 128 00:07:03,333 --> 00:07:07,053 Speaker 3: also think at some point you've got to reward those 129 00:07:07,173 --> 00:07:08,693 Speaker 3: players with that all spot. 130 00:07:08,773 --> 00:07:08,893 Speaker 2: You know. 131 00:07:09,053 --> 00:07:10,813 Speaker 3: Yes, it's all very well being rewarded with an All 132 00:07:10,853 --> 00:07:13,933 Speaker 3: Blacks fifteen position, and that's great because you're going to 133 00:07:13,973 --> 00:07:16,253 Speaker 3: get more game time, but the All Blacks are the pinnacle, 134 00:07:16,413 --> 00:07:20,293 Speaker 3: and by carrying players that maybe aren't deserving of it, 135 00:07:20,493 --> 00:07:22,173 Speaker 3: or maybe I'm not going to be there in twenty 136 00:07:22,253 --> 00:07:25,173 Speaker 3: twenty seven, I don't know whether it cheapens the juzy necessarily. 137 00:07:25,453 --> 00:07:28,453 Speaker 3: And I can understand the logic to an extent that 138 00:07:28,533 --> 00:07:30,653 Speaker 3: you want to get these game players with more game time, 139 00:07:30,773 --> 00:07:32,453 Speaker 3: but I also think the All Blacks should be the 140 00:07:32,493 --> 00:07:35,973 Speaker 3: top echelone, not a play place where basically you're selecting 141 00:07:35,973 --> 00:07:39,453 Speaker 3: the best training partners and the best backups to the backups, 142 00:07:39,493 --> 00:07:39,893 Speaker 3: et cetera. 143 00:07:40,253 --> 00:07:43,893 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think your pointvant the relevance there is to 144 00:07:44,413 --> 00:07:46,773 Speaker 4: the twenty twenty seven World Cup, and yes, you live 145 00:07:46,813 --> 00:07:48,653 Speaker 4: in the here and now, Yes you need a win now, 146 00:07:49,173 --> 00:07:51,893 Speaker 4: but some of those guys aren't going to be there 147 00:07:51,933 --> 00:07:54,693 Speaker 4: in two years time. So if you're not pulling the 148 00:07:54,773 --> 00:07:58,293 Speaker 4: trigger now, then win. And it does feel like there's 149 00:07:58,413 --> 00:08:05,933 Speaker 4: that inherent conservatism in Scott Robertson's selections. He's slow to react. 150 00:08:06,213 --> 00:08:08,693 Speaker 4: You look at a guy like Leroy Carter. He was 151 00:08:09,013 --> 00:08:12,333 Speaker 4: him and Ammonia best wings in Super Rugby Pacific this year. 152 00:08:13,373 --> 00:08:17,173 Speaker 4: Leroy Carter only selected in the Rugby Championship squad as 153 00:08:17,293 --> 00:08:21,693 Speaker 4: injury cover and he has made an instant impact and 154 00:08:21,813 --> 00:08:24,133 Speaker 4: it just takes them a bit long to get there. 155 00:08:24,173 --> 00:08:27,493 Speaker 4: And that's the feeling, isn't it. Around guys like Seva, 156 00:08:27,573 --> 00:08:29,533 Speaker 4: Reese f and Lake Christie, it feels like you're a 157 00:08:29,573 --> 00:08:31,733 Speaker 4: wee bit stuck in the mud. You're not evolving, you're 158 00:08:31,773 --> 00:08:36,053 Speaker 4: not a moving forward, you're not progressing. So I agree, 159 00:08:36,133 --> 00:08:38,173 Speaker 4: and you could widen that out. You know, there's a 160 00:08:38,253 --> 00:08:42,293 Speaker 4: number of guys that it does feel like last chance saloon. Maybe. 161 00:08:43,253 --> 00:08:46,293 Speaker 4: I think Rikwani still has value with his versatility, but 162 00:08:46,613 --> 00:08:50,013 Speaker 4: he's got to be on notice. Luke Jacobson hasn't featured 163 00:08:50,053 --> 00:08:52,253 Speaker 4: in recent times. I thought he was good for Wakato 164 00:08:52,573 --> 00:08:57,373 Speaker 4: the other night, other than his yellow card. Yeah, so 165 00:08:57,413 --> 00:08:59,653 Speaker 4: there's a lot of guys were points to prove, a 166 00:08:59,693 --> 00:09:01,333 Speaker 4: lot of guys that potentially aren't going to see a 167 00:09:01,373 --> 00:09:04,773 Speaker 4: lot of game time unless his injuries, and I think 168 00:09:04,853 --> 00:09:07,933 Speaker 4: we are going to see players move between the All 169 00:09:07,933 --> 00:09:10,293 Speaker 4: Blacks and the All Blacks fifteen. A guy like Ruben 170 00:09:10,373 --> 00:09:15,373 Speaker 4: Love as a classic example, he should be potentially starting 171 00:09:15,413 --> 00:09:18,453 Speaker 4: at ten for the All Blacks fifteen. I know Josh 172 00:09:18,573 --> 00:09:21,813 Speaker 4: Jacobs there and Rivers Rahana, but there's that week in 173 00:09:21,933 --> 00:09:24,773 Speaker 4: England in particular, I think England d Ay, the same 174 00:09:24,853 --> 00:09:26,693 Speaker 4: week that the All Blacks play England. I think you 175 00:09:26,733 --> 00:09:30,053 Speaker 4: will see a bit of shifting of squad members between 176 00:09:30,093 --> 00:09:30,813 Speaker 4: those two teams. 177 00:09:31,173 --> 00:09:35,293 Speaker 3: Interestingly, no Dylan Pledger in the All Blacks fifteen. Now, 178 00:09:35,653 --> 00:09:38,253 Speaker 3: there had been obviously calls for him. He's been an 179 00:09:38,253 --> 00:09:41,533 Speaker 3: exceptional form for Otago during the NBC obviously came off 180 00:09:41,533 --> 00:09:45,133 Speaker 3: of the New Zealand Under twenties campaign as well. At 181 00:09:45,173 --> 00:09:46,493 Speaker 3: one point it looked like he was going to be 182 00:09:46,533 --> 00:09:48,413 Speaker 3: included and that would have been a big selection, but 183 00:09:48,613 --> 00:09:53,293 Speaker 3: instead he has been left out and will spend getting 184 00:09:53,773 --> 00:09:55,613 Speaker 3: the off season I guess a couple weeks behind is 185 00:09:55,653 --> 00:09:58,613 Speaker 3: before Christmas and then getting into it proper do you 186 00:09:58,653 --> 00:10:00,213 Speaker 3: think it's the right call to take a step back 187 00:10:00,253 --> 00:10:02,253 Speaker 3: and go what's the best long term development or would 188 00:10:02,293 --> 00:10:03,733 Speaker 3: you have liked to see him in that All Blacks 189 00:10:03,773 --> 00:10:04,413 Speaker 3: fifteen squad. 190 00:10:05,213 --> 00:10:06,813 Speaker 4: I would have liked to have seen him in this 191 00:10:06,933 --> 00:10:12,013 Speaker 4: All Black fifteen squad. I think he's ready now. I've 192 00:10:12,093 --> 00:10:16,213 Speaker 4: seen enough of him to believe that he can be elevated, 193 00:10:16,533 --> 00:10:21,333 Speaker 4: and I think he would benefit from the exposure to 194 00:10:21,773 --> 00:10:25,693 Speaker 4: different conditions, different opposition, being on tour. All those things 195 00:10:25,733 --> 00:10:28,653 Speaker 4: are very valuable, and it is different to being in 196 00:10:28,973 --> 00:10:34,893 Speaker 4: an under twenties environment playing grom Men, experiencing a sold 197 00:10:34,933 --> 00:10:41,093 Speaker 4: outs stadium in bath or These sort of opportunities don't 198 00:10:41,093 --> 00:10:42,853 Speaker 4: come around every day, so I would have liked to 199 00:10:42,893 --> 00:10:45,933 Speaker 4: have seen him in that environment. I can also understand 200 00:10:45,973 --> 00:10:49,853 Speaker 4: the logic. I don't think there necessarily any bias, but 201 00:10:51,253 --> 00:10:53,093 Speaker 4: maybe some people will see it that way. With Joseph 202 00:10:53,173 --> 00:10:56,173 Speaker 4: coaching the Highlanders, if he goes on that All Blis 203 00:10:56,213 --> 00:11:00,133 Speaker 4: fifteen tour, I think he will then have a mandated 204 00:11:00,213 --> 00:11:03,973 Speaker 4: rest and have to come back quite late, probably late January, 205 00:11:04,093 --> 00:11:07,253 Speaker 4: even into a super rugby squad. So it's not the 206 00:11:07,333 --> 00:11:10,013 Speaker 4: best preparation for his rocky Super Rugby season. 207 00:11:10,173 --> 00:11:12,853 Speaker 3: Yeah, well it was interesting that. Yet Falafakatava is going 208 00:11:13,133 --> 00:11:15,413 Speaker 3: and Dylan Pledge is not from that holland he's probably 209 00:11:15,533 --> 00:11:18,693 Speaker 3: maybe Jammie Joseph didn't want to lose two Highlanders half 210 00:11:18,773 --> 00:11:22,413 Speaker 3: backs from his preseason. Potentially, I don't know, but I agree. 211 00:11:22,493 --> 00:11:25,133 Speaker 4: Look, he's deserving of a place place there. 212 00:11:25,613 --> 00:11:27,293 Speaker 3: To me, he's already in the best six half backs 213 00:11:27,333 --> 00:11:30,013 Speaker 3: in the country. And yes, you can wait NBC lower 214 00:11:30,093 --> 00:11:32,133 Speaker 3: than Super Rugby and he hasn't made his debut there. 215 00:11:32,173 --> 00:11:34,333 Speaker 3: But and I'm not comparing him to Richard McCall, but 216 00:11:34,493 --> 00:11:36,933 Speaker 3: I wonder now is there the place? And yes, rugby's 217 00:11:36,933 --> 00:11:39,933 Speaker 3: moved on since two thousand and one when mccormad his debut, 218 00:11:39,973 --> 00:11:42,613 Speaker 3: but he came out of NBC having not played Super 219 00:11:42,653 --> 00:11:46,253 Speaker 3: Rugby and debuted for the All Blacks and was you know, 220 00:11:46,333 --> 00:11:48,053 Speaker 3: the best player on debut is man to the match 221 00:11:48,093 --> 00:11:51,533 Speaker 3: on debut against Ireland in two thousand and one. As 222 00:11:51,533 --> 00:11:53,293 Speaker 3: I said, rugby's moved on. But since the end of 223 00:11:53,373 --> 00:11:56,293 Speaker 3: pathways everything like that, But it feels like over the 224 00:11:56,373 --> 00:12:01,213 Speaker 3: last twenty plus years that would just simply no longer happen. 225 00:12:01,293 --> 00:12:04,173 Speaker 3: You want a defined pathway and there's no room for 226 00:12:04,533 --> 00:12:06,573 Speaker 3: players to come out of the gates in NBC and 227 00:12:06,973 --> 00:12:08,893 Speaker 3: you know, shock the world and all of a suddenly 228 00:12:08,973 --> 00:12:09,733 Speaker 3: on the end of view tour. 229 00:12:10,133 --> 00:12:12,013 Speaker 4: Well, I think the question is around this All Blacks 230 00:12:12,053 --> 00:12:19,053 Speaker 4: fifteen team. What's its purpose? Is it a team masquerading 231 00:12:19,293 --> 00:12:24,293 Speaker 4: development for retention? Is it a carrot to keep Adulton 232 00:12:24,333 --> 00:12:29,093 Speaker 4: Puppa Lee interested or you know, you look at guys 233 00:12:29,133 --> 00:12:32,573 Speaker 4: like Brandon en Or and Dallas McLeod, how much you're 234 00:12:32,613 --> 00:12:35,053 Speaker 4: actually learning by taking those sort of guys away on 235 00:12:35,133 --> 00:12:38,573 Speaker 4: a tour like this when you could be really promoting 236 00:12:38,653 --> 00:12:40,933 Speaker 4: the next generation. You know, I think of a guy 237 00:12:41,053 --> 00:12:43,733 Speaker 4: he's injured at the moment, but Riley Higgins, you know 238 00:12:43,893 --> 00:12:49,213 Speaker 4: that sort of caliber or age profile. I think they 239 00:12:49,213 --> 00:12:53,173 Speaker 4: would get more from that. And that's where the push 240 00:12:53,253 --> 00:12:56,653 Speaker 4: for Dylan Pledger. Just get him involved, accelerate his development, 241 00:12:57,053 --> 00:13:00,293 Speaker 4: expose him to all these different environments and I think 242 00:13:00,373 --> 00:13:02,973 Speaker 4: you'd get more from that than a Super rugby preseason. 243 00:13:03,093 --> 00:13:06,693 Speaker 4: So what's your view on how this All Black fifteen 244 00:13:07,093 --> 00:13:09,053 Speaker 4: team should be selected? What is its purpose? 245 00:13:09,213 --> 00:13:12,853 Speaker 3: Well? Yeah, its purpose is spreading the All Blacks gospel, 246 00:13:13,053 --> 00:13:15,853 Speaker 3: isn't it around the globe? And you know, enhancing commercial 247 00:13:15,973 --> 00:13:18,773 Speaker 3: opportunities for for New Zealand rugby. They've got three games 248 00:13:18,813 --> 00:13:22,493 Speaker 3: on this tour, England, a Bath and Uruguay they're going 249 00:13:22,573 --> 00:13:26,253 Speaker 3: to play against. Those are three revenue streams of the 250 00:13:26,293 --> 00:13:28,173 Speaker 3: All Blacks. Yes, it's a carrot for some of these 251 00:13:28,213 --> 00:13:31,893 Speaker 3: players to stay a bit longer. I think the usage 252 00:13:31,933 --> 00:13:35,133 Speaker 3: of the All Blacks fifteen is confusing. I would prefer 253 00:13:35,293 --> 00:13:37,373 Speaker 3: Junior All Blacks or an All Blacks A or something 254 00:13:37,453 --> 00:13:40,653 Speaker 3: like that to the Alla sifteen. It doesn't read well. 255 00:13:40,653 --> 00:13:42,973 Speaker 3: I don't think overseas when you're trying to interpret it. 256 00:13:43,973 --> 00:13:46,253 Speaker 3: I've seen it misinterpreted a lot of times online and 257 00:13:46,333 --> 00:13:49,253 Speaker 3: perhaps that's a then problem, but that's by the bye. 258 00:13:50,013 --> 00:13:52,133 Speaker 3: I would like to see it, you know, give opportunities 259 00:13:52,173 --> 00:13:54,493 Speaker 3: to youth. But at the same time you mentioned those 260 00:13:54,533 --> 00:13:58,133 Speaker 3: crossover players. If you're bringing in younger players who prescribed 261 00:13:58,133 --> 00:13:59,773 Speaker 3: aren't ready for the All Blacks but are ready for 262 00:13:59,813 --> 00:14:03,573 Speaker 3: All Blacks fifteen, you can't have that crossover as much. 263 00:14:03,613 --> 00:14:05,093 Speaker 3: If there's a midfield to injured on the end of 264 00:14:05,173 --> 00:14:07,813 Speaker 3: your tour. While Brandonan was there and ready to go 265 00:14:07,893 --> 00:14:10,733 Speaker 3: and he's play All Blacks rugby before David HARVILLI same 266 00:14:10,813 --> 00:14:13,933 Speaker 3: with him, so I don't have a perfect answer for that, 267 00:14:14,213 --> 00:14:16,013 Speaker 3: but I would have liked to see a little bit 268 00:14:16,053 --> 00:14:18,373 Speaker 3: more youth. You know, someone like Lucas Casey has been 269 00:14:18,493 --> 00:14:21,733 Speaker 3: exceptional for the for Otago and again hasn't played him, 270 00:14:21,853 --> 00:14:23,733 Speaker 3: hasn't played super rugby. It may he make it found 271 00:14:23,733 --> 00:14:25,893 Speaker 3: out at super rugby level or maybe the making of 272 00:14:25,973 --> 00:14:27,453 Speaker 3: him by going on the All Blacks fifteen to him 273 00:14:27,493 --> 00:14:29,133 Speaker 3: may play the house down and go. This guy's ready 274 00:14:29,213 --> 00:14:33,053 Speaker 3: for big opportunity. So I would have you know, I 275 00:14:33,173 --> 00:14:35,213 Speaker 3: know Scrolls and mentioned some bolters there. I don't know, 276 00:14:35,253 --> 00:14:38,973 Speaker 3: there's too many bolters in that All Blacks fifteen squad. 277 00:14:39,053 --> 00:14:43,373 Speaker 3: There's some tried and true faces and yeah, so it's 278 00:14:43,373 --> 00:14:46,293 Speaker 3: hard to define the purpose of it other than, you know, 279 00:14:46,373 --> 00:14:48,413 Speaker 3: basically taking sixty players on tour and being able to 280 00:14:48,733 --> 00:14:50,493 Speaker 3: rotate some of those options in and out. 281 00:14:51,373 --> 00:14:56,133 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we did see last year Fabian Holland, 282 00:14:56,453 --> 00:14:59,693 Speaker 4: see Carrefi and Reuben Love. We've talked about players going 283 00:14:59,693 --> 00:15:01,213 Speaker 4: from the All Blacks to the All Blacks fifteen, but 284 00:15:01,293 --> 00:15:03,053 Speaker 4: those guys went the other way, spent time in All 285 00:15:03,093 --> 00:15:06,973 Speaker 4: Blacks camp and then in the case of Carrife and 286 00:15:07,133 --> 00:15:12,373 Speaker 4: Fabian Holland, graduate to full squad members. Hollins impressed everyone 287 00:15:12,493 --> 00:15:15,373 Speaker 4: with his training etiquette and how quickly he picked everything 288 00:15:15,493 --> 00:15:18,413 Speaker 4: up at the back end of last year, So that 289 00:15:18,693 --> 00:15:22,693 Speaker 4: purpose I completely understand. But I would like to see 290 00:15:22,733 --> 00:15:24,573 Speaker 4: this team from a selection point of view, the All 291 00:15:24,573 --> 00:15:29,213 Speaker 4: Blacks fifteen weighted far more heavily in favor of youth development. 292 00:15:29,413 --> 00:15:31,893 Speaker 4: I think those sort of players would get much more 293 00:15:32,013 --> 00:15:38,093 Speaker 4: from the exposure up north than a Dallas McLeod type 294 00:15:38,853 --> 00:15:40,653 Speaker 4: character who's been around a long time. You know what 295 00:15:40,693 --> 00:15:44,973 Speaker 4: you're going to get, you know his style of play. Realistically, 296 00:15:45,093 --> 00:15:48,333 Speaker 4: he's not likely to be called into the All Blacks 297 00:15:48,373 --> 00:15:52,133 Speaker 4: as well, So go a bit younger and expose those guys, 298 00:15:52,173 --> 00:15:54,693 Speaker 4: give them an opportunity. That's where I would like to 299 00:15:54,733 --> 00:15:56,533 Speaker 4: see the selection purpose of that team sit. 300 00:15:57,133 --> 00:15:59,333 Speaker 3: I think there's some I think when you look at 301 00:15:59,333 --> 00:16:02,133 Speaker 3: that All Black squad, there are some If you lose 302 00:16:02,173 --> 00:16:04,933 Speaker 3: the top players, there are some real question marks around 303 00:16:04,973 --> 00:16:08,013 Speaker 3: who's next. You know, Simon Parker goes down with No. Two, 304 00:16:08,813 --> 00:16:11,173 Speaker 3: you've got Semipeni Feen now. But I don't think there's 305 00:16:11,173 --> 00:16:13,933 Speaker 3: a lot of depth at six. I also don't think 306 00:16:13,973 --> 00:16:17,413 Speaker 3: there's a lot of depth at second five. Jeordi Barrackt's injured, 307 00:16:17,413 --> 00:16:20,293 Speaker 3: Maybe move Clinton Pier and you could put anyone at center. 308 00:16:20,293 --> 00:16:22,093 Speaker 3: You've got a few options there, but I don't think 309 00:16:22,133 --> 00:16:24,533 Speaker 3: you've got a ready made it almost Dallas mc cloud. 310 00:16:24,573 --> 00:16:26,693 Speaker 3: That type of body is more what you're looking for, 311 00:16:27,013 --> 00:16:30,013 Speaker 3: you know, to lightful light replacement for Jordi Barrett. But 312 00:16:30,053 --> 00:16:33,653 Speaker 3: I think there are some issues around depth at the 313 00:16:33,733 --> 00:16:36,653 Speaker 3: All Blacks level, which I don't know that we rectified 314 00:16:36,733 --> 00:16:38,253 Speaker 3: on this end of year tour because they're going to 315 00:16:38,333 --> 00:16:40,253 Speaker 3: roll out their first choice team more often than not, 316 00:16:40,613 --> 00:16:44,533 Speaker 3: maybe apart from Wales, and you know, that seems like 317 00:16:44,573 --> 00:16:46,893 Speaker 3: maybe the only opportunity where maybe they can tweak a 318 00:16:46,973 --> 00:16:49,373 Speaker 3: few things and look at players. But I don't know 319 00:16:49,453 --> 00:16:51,773 Speaker 3: how much we're going to learn about and maybe it's 320 00:16:51,773 --> 00:16:54,693 Speaker 3: not about learning. It's about willing obviously, but about building 321 00:16:55,413 --> 00:16:57,973 Speaker 3: you know, four four four across this tour. 322 00:16:59,213 --> 00:17:02,773 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good point. And it's not just that 323 00:17:02,893 --> 00:17:05,173 Speaker 4: the depths not there, it's the drop off, right. So 324 00:17:05,253 --> 00:17:08,653 Speaker 4: we've talked about two below too and VI and the 325 00:17:08,733 --> 00:17:14,413 Speaker 4: next keep off the rank you mentioned second five and Blindside. 326 00:17:14,493 --> 00:17:18,093 Speaker 4: While we've spoken about Locke, we've seen the drop off 327 00:17:18,133 --> 00:17:20,973 Speaker 4: at Hooker when you get a few injuries. First five 328 00:17:21,173 --> 00:17:24,813 Speaker 4: is another one. Obviously Richie's Richie Wong is coming home 329 00:17:24,893 --> 00:17:29,733 Speaker 4: next year. But without given these players the exposure and opportunity, 330 00:17:29,773 --> 00:17:33,253 Speaker 4: they're not going to grow. And that's we've spoken about 331 00:17:33,373 --> 00:17:36,213 Speaker 4: around Ruben Love and the fact that he hasn't played 332 00:17:36,253 --> 00:17:40,013 Speaker 4: ten for the All Blacks yet. So they need opportunity, 333 00:17:40,093 --> 00:17:45,693 Speaker 4: they need exposure. And Scott Robinson's brought in nineteen rookies 334 00:17:45,933 --> 00:17:49,693 Speaker 4: in the past well eighteen months, and that is around 335 00:17:49,733 --> 00:17:52,333 Speaker 4: that four four to four plan. But there is a 336 00:17:52,373 --> 00:17:57,853 Speaker 4: big difference between ten minutes off the bench and twenty 337 00:17:57,933 --> 00:18:02,373 Speaker 4: thirty caps, So I don't think there's going to be 338 00:18:02,413 --> 00:18:05,013 Speaker 4: many opportunities to rotate on this tour. Players are probably 339 00:18:05,013 --> 00:18:09,053 Speaker 4: only going to get chances through injuries and maybe in 340 00:18:09,133 --> 00:18:10,453 Speaker 4: that final Test against Wales. 341 00:18:10,613 --> 00:18:13,133 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was interesting hearing him talk yesterday when you 342 00:18:13,213 --> 00:18:16,133 Speaker 3: name the squad around the greatest rivalry tour and the 343 00:18:16,413 --> 00:18:19,693 Speaker 3: probably taking forty plus players there and seventeen games with 344 00:18:19,733 --> 00:18:23,053 Speaker 3: the All Blacks next year with those tour games against 345 00:18:23,093 --> 00:18:27,133 Speaker 3: the likes of the USC side, so there's an opportunity there, 346 00:18:27,213 --> 00:18:29,533 Speaker 3: But by that point you're just over a year away 347 00:18:29,533 --> 00:18:31,773 Speaker 3: from the World Cup, and yeah, There'll be opportunities there 348 00:18:31,853 --> 00:18:34,893 Speaker 3: to have some midweek games and give players, you know, 349 00:18:35,013 --> 00:18:37,933 Speaker 3: All Blacks experience, but again you're taking forty plus players. 350 00:18:38,693 --> 00:18:41,573 Speaker 3: There'll be to probably define midwek group and a test group, 351 00:18:41,653 --> 00:18:44,933 Speaker 3: but you can't wait for that opportunity, I don't think 352 00:18:45,053 --> 00:18:46,773 Speaker 3: to get these players on the park. 353 00:18:47,653 --> 00:18:50,053 Speaker 4: Oh and opportunities at this level are so limited, aren't they? 354 00:18:50,093 --> 00:18:52,453 Speaker 4: And the All Blacks have missed opportunities when you go 355 00:18:52,533 --> 00:18:56,493 Speaker 4: back to last year, in particular to evolve the group 356 00:18:56,653 --> 00:18:59,493 Speaker 4: and to make changes. I think they've been better in 357 00:18:59,573 --> 00:19:01,773 Speaker 4: their area this year. We've seen them mate changes for 358 00:19:01,853 --> 00:19:06,573 Speaker 4: the third Test against France and the most recent Bledislow. 359 00:19:07,413 --> 00:19:10,013 Speaker 4: Four of the sevens darting changes were injury and forced, 360 00:19:10,053 --> 00:19:13,013 Speaker 4: but some of those players really stepped up, and I 361 00:19:13,133 --> 00:19:15,733 Speaker 4: think we need to see a bit more of there, 362 00:19:15,773 --> 00:19:18,133 Speaker 4: and we need to see them be a bit more 363 00:19:18,373 --> 00:19:19,053 Speaker 4: brave and bold. 364 00:19:19,373 --> 00:19:21,693 Speaker 3: Any any further comments on that too? Before we kept 365 00:19:21,693 --> 00:19:24,133 Speaker 3: taking quick break? Take a quicker break? Excuse me on 366 00:19:24,213 --> 00:19:24,653 Speaker 3: RAPI direct. 367 00:19:25,213 --> 00:19:29,453 Speaker 4: What is it the best sixty six players in New 368 00:19:29,573 --> 00:19:33,973 Speaker 4: Zealand And and what does that tell you about where 369 00:19:34,053 --> 00:19:34,613 Speaker 4: the game's at? 370 00:19:34,853 --> 00:19:34,973 Speaker 1: Well? 371 00:19:35,053 --> 00:19:36,533 Speaker 3: I think it is the best sixty six I mean 372 00:19:36,533 --> 00:19:39,213 Speaker 3: there's a few injuries, for one, and that would change 373 00:19:39,213 --> 00:19:43,053 Speaker 3: the complexion of that group. And no, because you know, 374 00:19:43,093 --> 00:19:45,133 Speaker 3: I think Dylan Pleagure is doing the right to be 375 00:19:45,213 --> 00:19:48,853 Speaker 3: in that top six half backs in the country at 376 00:19:48,893 --> 00:19:51,733 Speaker 3: this point in time. I think there's probably a few 377 00:19:51,813 --> 00:19:56,133 Speaker 3: others that you could quibble over as well, and so yeah, 378 00:19:56,133 --> 00:19:56,733 Speaker 3: I would say. 379 00:19:56,613 --> 00:20:00,173 Speaker 4: No, yeah, yeah, I think Pleasures should be there. I 380 00:20:00,293 --> 00:20:03,773 Speaker 4: think that's a misstep. But he's probably also a guy 381 00:20:03,853 --> 00:20:07,293 Speaker 4: that could come in and take Super rugby by storm 382 00:20:07,333 --> 00:20:10,253 Speaker 4: next year and potentially go straight into the all blacks environment. 383 00:20:11,253 --> 00:20:16,333 Speaker 4: I think he really is that good and NPC is 384 00:20:16,373 --> 00:20:19,453 Speaker 4: a couple of ruings down, but he just seems to 385 00:20:19,533 --> 00:20:22,693 Speaker 4: have time and composure and the full box of tricks 386 00:20:24,253 --> 00:20:26,453 Speaker 4: and speed to the base. I think he's a real 387 00:20:26,933 --> 00:20:30,533 Speaker 4: point of difference that they will look to enhance. And 388 00:20:31,133 --> 00:20:33,773 Speaker 4: they've got Noah Hotham and court his at Artimo behind 389 00:20:34,293 --> 00:20:38,613 Speaker 4: cam royguard. But as we sit here now, I think 390 00:20:39,213 --> 00:20:42,013 Speaker 4: Dylan Pledger will be really knocking on the door. I 391 00:20:42,053 --> 00:20:43,653 Speaker 4: think he will be in the World Cup squad. 392 00:20:43,773 --> 00:20:47,853 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. He's a young bloke, hasn't played Super Rabia level, 393 00:20:47,933 --> 00:20:51,213 Speaker 3: but looks to have the entire package. Just back to 394 00:20:51,373 --> 00:20:54,013 Speaker 3: sever Reese, we were talking about him before. He's not 395 00:20:54,053 --> 00:20:55,253 Speaker 3: going to get a lot of game time. I don't 396 00:20:55,253 --> 00:20:58,493 Speaker 3: think on those two, barring injuries. There's been a lot 397 00:20:58,533 --> 00:21:01,773 Speaker 3: of clamoring for Caleb Toungy Tower potentially from what I 398 00:21:01,853 --> 00:21:04,493 Speaker 3: saw of the NPC this year. For Auckland, I thought 399 00:21:04,533 --> 00:21:07,053 Speaker 3: he was found out defensively on a number of occasions, 400 00:21:07,093 --> 00:21:09,293 Speaker 3: and I think that's a big work on in his game. 401 00:21:09,333 --> 00:21:12,813 Speaker 3: But I think that raw ability on the attacking side 402 00:21:12,853 --> 00:21:16,013 Speaker 3: is something that they want to harness. Fihaki is another one. 403 00:21:16,773 --> 00:21:20,653 Speaker 3: I think, you know, in terms of an aerial threatening 404 00:21:20,733 --> 00:21:23,733 Speaker 3: what Test rugby is at the moment, he's probably you know, 405 00:21:23,853 --> 00:21:25,773 Speaker 3: one of the tor swingers going around, would have liked 406 00:21:25,813 --> 00:21:28,973 Speaker 3: to see him maybe in the mix. But you know, 407 00:21:29,373 --> 00:21:31,133 Speaker 3: for me, it feels like hang on to sev Reese 408 00:21:31,293 --> 00:21:33,693 Speaker 3: just a little bit too long. He's only contracted twenty 409 00:21:33,733 --> 00:21:36,573 Speaker 3: twenty six of New Zealand rugby. It feels like he's 410 00:21:36,613 --> 00:21:39,013 Speaker 3: been given up on on at Test level at this point. 411 00:21:39,093 --> 00:21:40,613 Speaker 3: Now he may get an opportunity on this end of 412 00:21:40,693 --> 00:21:43,613 Speaker 3: the year tour, but it feels like they hang on 413 00:21:43,773 --> 00:21:46,653 Speaker 3: to him, and this probably circles back to the earlier point, 414 00:21:47,093 --> 00:21:50,013 Speaker 3: to be a training partner more than actually being a 415 00:21:50,613 --> 00:21:52,373 Speaker 3: prospect for the twenty twenty seven World Cup. 416 00:21:53,653 --> 00:21:56,773 Speaker 4: What's an unwillingness to take a chance on someone and 417 00:21:57,213 --> 00:22:00,373 Speaker 4: to stick with someone too long. That's been there. But 418 00:22:00,773 --> 00:22:03,813 Speaker 4: the signs were there this time last year on the 419 00:22:03,893 --> 00:22:07,013 Speaker 4: Alblex Northern Tour when Sevu had a couple of brain 420 00:22:07,133 --> 00:22:10,853 Speaker 4: explosions and he was gas in that French test. That 421 00:22:11,093 --> 00:22:14,813 Speaker 4: was a real stark image of a winger not in 422 00:22:14,893 --> 00:22:18,333 Speaker 4: his prime. So and then when you see some of 423 00:22:18,373 --> 00:22:21,373 Speaker 4: these all blacks go back to provincial rugby, you'd expect 424 00:22:21,413 --> 00:22:24,653 Speaker 4: them to dominate. And yes, it's not necessarily easy to 425 00:22:24,733 --> 00:22:28,253 Speaker 4: go straight back in and fit into a system that 426 00:22:28,333 --> 00:22:31,333 Speaker 4: you haven't been a part of and gel with teammates immediately. 427 00:22:31,453 --> 00:22:34,533 Speaker 4: But we've seen it with some players. As I mentioned before, 428 00:22:34,653 --> 00:22:37,053 Speaker 4: Luke Jacobson was really good, but others like sie Vorice 429 00:22:37,093 --> 00:22:40,093 Speaker 4: when he went back to Southland, he looked like he 430 00:22:40,213 --> 00:22:44,013 Speaker 4: was stuck in the MUDs. Even Riquewuani going back to Auckland, 431 00:22:44,653 --> 00:22:48,453 Speaker 4: he didn't do anything. Really. I thought Antonina Brown didn't 432 00:22:48,453 --> 00:22:51,933 Speaker 4: really show out for Waikato. So some of these guys 433 00:22:52,013 --> 00:22:54,733 Speaker 4: that are on the periphery of the All Blacks, then 434 00:22:54,773 --> 00:22:57,093 Speaker 4: went back to provincial rugby and haven't stepped up as 435 00:22:57,133 --> 00:23:00,773 Speaker 4: you'd hope, so I think that's another telltale sign as 436 00:23:00,813 --> 00:23:01,133 Speaker 4: well to. 437 00:23:01,333 --> 00:23:03,773 Speaker 3: Papel, I think has been very good for counties this 438 00:23:03,893 --> 00:23:05,453 Speaker 3: year and had to slim to eight with Hoskins to 439 00:23:05,493 --> 00:23:07,893 Speaker 3: two do add injured another string to his by I 440 00:23:07,973 --> 00:23:10,413 Speaker 3: mean you can play six, he can play eight, He 441 00:23:10,453 --> 00:23:12,493 Speaker 3: can play obviously open side flanker. To me, he's got 442 00:23:12,533 --> 00:23:14,013 Speaker 3: more of an upside at this point in time than 443 00:23:14,453 --> 00:23:18,853 Speaker 3: Luke Jacobson, especially in a bench capacity for the All Blacks, 444 00:23:18,893 --> 00:23:21,133 Speaker 3: So I would have liked to see him perhaps coming 445 00:23:21,133 --> 00:23:23,253 Speaker 3: to that main squad, but not to be right. We'll 446 00:23:23,253 --> 00:23:25,133 Speaker 3: wrap it up there for the first half of the podcast. 447 00:23:25,173 --> 00:23:27,453 Speaker 3: Come back second half after this plenty to get stuck 448 00:23:27,453 --> 00:23:28,333 Speaker 3: into in the Final four. 449 00:23:29,013 --> 00:23:33,133 Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares. 450 00:23:38,533 --> 00:23:42,613 Speaker 3: Ever try try and sixty sec every tackle tackles get. 451 00:23:42,533 --> 00:23:46,973 Speaker 2: Up again, well I take him before. 452 00:23:46,893 --> 00:23:51,253 Speaker 3: Times Rugby Direct, Ladies talk, Welcome back to the Final 453 00:23:51,333 --> 00:23:54,013 Speaker 3: four on Rugby Direct. Pound by four kule of solutions 454 00:23:54,053 --> 00:23:57,133 Speaker 3: lifting you and your business to a higher level for 455 00:23:57,333 --> 00:24:00,453 Speaker 3: rugby topics In fact, five. We'll get into the first 456 00:24:00,493 --> 00:24:03,773 Speaker 3: one though. N PC semi finalists set and it's teams 457 00:24:03,813 --> 00:24:07,773 Speaker 3: one to four who qualified. No upsets per se. But boy, 458 00:24:07,853 --> 00:24:11,213 Speaker 3: that was a great weekend of NPC quarter finals from 459 00:24:11,613 --> 00:24:15,133 Speaker 3: Friday night right through to Sunday afternoon, all four games delivered. 460 00:24:15,133 --> 00:24:17,013 Speaker 3: I mean, I know, the Bay of Plenty blew out 461 00:24:17,053 --> 00:24:20,013 Speaker 3: Tasman in the end, but that was compelling in a 462 00:24:20,093 --> 00:24:23,253 Speaker 3: way as well. So great weekend for the NPC and 463 00:24:23,533 --> 00:24:25,133 Speaker 3: the semi finals are set up quite nicely. 464 00:24:25,493 --> 00:24:28,453 Speaker 4: Oh his magic, wasn't it? And I think the NPC 465 00:24:28,613 --> 00:24:30,573 Speaker 4: is still the essence of New Zealand rugby. You know, 466 00:24:31,733 --> 00:24:36,413 Speaker 4: defense isn't as sophisticated and suffocating. So some magic ball 467 00:24:36,493 --> 00:24:40,133 Speaker 4: and play and then just some dramatic finishes with Counties 468 00:24:40,173 --> 00:24:45,733 Speaker 4: pushing Canterbury to extra time and cam Miller slot in 469 00:24:45,813 --> 00:24:51,333 Speaker 4: that penalty what fifty meters out absolutely clutch kick. So yeah, 470 00:24:51,333 --> 00:24:53,453 Speaker 4: the magic of the NPC really really come into the 471 00:24:53,533 --> 00:24:56,533 Speaker 4: four and I think I'm on the Otago bamwagon. Actually 472 00:24:56,693 --> 00:24:57,173 Speaker 4: it's good to have. 473 00:24:57,293 --> 00:25:00,853 Speaker 3: Well South Islands, we'll take that as a whole. People 474 00:25:00,893 --> 00:25:02,413 Speaker 3: want to see Otago Canterbury final. 475 00:25:02,773 --> 00:25:06,573 Speaker 4: Well I'm not sure about that. Has taking a real 476 00:25:06,693 --> 00:25:07,493 Speaker 4: leap of faith there. 477 00:25:07,573 --> 00:25:11,573 Speaker 3: No, I think the people fine large, I mean, oh tuggle, 478 00:25:12,733 --> 00:25:14,573 Speaker 3: Look as long as it's in the South Island, we 479 00:25:14,613 --> 00:25:17,933 Speaker 3: don't need these mythical bays. Don't worry about that. Topy 480 00:25:18,053 --> 00:25:21,053 Speaker 3: number two. R three sixty takes a hammer below a 481 00:25:21,093 --> 00:25:23,973 Speaker 3: whole bunch of unions last week saying that we will 482 00:25:24,053 --> 00:25:26,893 Speaker 3: not pick players out of R three sixty should this 483 00:25:27,013 --> 00:25:30,733 Speaker 3: competition start. I mean, no surprises from New Zealand Rugby. 484 00:25:30,733 --> 00:25:33,333 Speaker 3: They don't pick anyone outside of Super Rugby, so no 485 00:25:33,493 --> 00:25:36,293 Speaker 3: surprise with them. But some of those other unions signing 486 00:25:36,413 --> 00:25:39,653 Speaker 3: up basically a big blockade in the way, And to me, 487 00:25:39,773 --> 00:25:43,773 Speaker 3: it puts R three sixty into a corner of being 488 00:25:43,813 --> 00:25:46,173 Speaker 3: a rebel league and that's probably not a place they 489 00:25:46,253 --> 00:25:49,533 Speaker 3: want to be because it makes you know, I'm sure 490 00:25:49,853 --> 00:25:52,533 Speaker 3: when they've been signing up players or getting expressions of 491 00:25:52,613 --> 00:25:54,133 Speaker 3: interest in the background, there would have been a lot 492 00:25:54,173 --> 00:25:55,453 Speaker 3: of talk saying, hey, you still be able to play 493 00:25:55,453 --> 00:25:59,053 Speaker 3: test rugby. You know, we want to align with the regulation. 494 00:25:59,173 --> 00:26:01,493 Speaker 3: Nine windows will release you for that, no trouble at all. 495 00:26:01,773 --> 00:26:03,893 Speaker 3: But when those unions are saying we won't pick them, 496 00:26:04,093 --> 00:26:05,893 Speaker 3: it paints them as a rebel league and now becomes 497 00:26:06,013 --> 00:26:07,893 Speaker 3: very very difficult, I think to recruit players. 498 00:26:08,693 --> 00:26:13,413 Speaker 4: It does, yeah, and it heightens the pressure to recruit 499 00:26:14,773 --> 00:26:21,493 Speaker 4: NRL players, fringe super rugby players, and that significantly diminishes 500 00:26:21,533 --> 00:26:25,173 Speaker 4: your ability to market this league to captivate fans, and 501 00:26:25,213 --> 00:26:27,133 Speaker 4: that was always going to be a struggle anyway. I've 502 00:26:27,173 --> 00:26:29,453 Speaker 4: had a lot of discussion about this, even with mates, 503 00:26:29,533 --> 00:26:32,733 Speaker 4: and one of them compared it to the IPL and 504 00:26:32,853 --> 00:26:36,533 Speaker 4: I was like, well, yes, but absolutely not, because the 505 00:26:36,653 --> 00:26:41,133 Speaker 4: IPL had a captivated fan base, rabid cricketing fan base, 506 00:26:41,773 --> 00:26:44,373 Speaker 4: and personally I don't actually have a lot of interest 507 00:26:44,413 --> 00:26:47,973 Speaker 4: in the IPL either. But this concept are three six 508 00:26:48,133 --> 00:26:52,773 Speaker 4: is talking about a traveling circus going around Barcelona and Dubai, 509 00:26:54,533 --> 00:26:59,373 Speaker 4: and I just can't see it's capturing fans. And they're 510 00:26:59,453 --> 00:27:01,133 Speaker 4: now in a situation where they're going to have to 511 00:27:02,173 --> 00:27:06,213 Speaker 4: effectively survive for two years through to the twenty seven 512 00:27:06,253 --> 00:27:10,013 Speaker 4: World Cup, when a whole host of players may actually 513 00:27:10,093 --> 00:27:12,053 Speaker 4: take a look at it and look at cashing out. 514 00:27:13,253 --> 00:27:15,453 Speaker 4: But can they survive that long? As I think there's 515 00:27:15,453 --> 00:27:18,213 Speaker 4: a consortium eight eighty five that are bank rolling it, 516 00:27:19,213 --> 00:27:22,653 Speaker 4: have they got the capital to stick with it? Will 517 00:27:22,693 --> 00:27:28,893 Speaker 4: it survived two years. Really, it's a long long runway 518 00:27:28,973 --> 00:27:34,453 Speaker 4: to get off the grounds and are going to be 519 00:27:34,533 --> 00:27:36,053 Speaker 4: losing money hand of a fist, aren't they. 520 00:27:36,133 --> 00:27:37,853 Speaker 3: That may not matter to them depending on who the 521 00:27:37,933 --> 00:27:40,293 Speaker 3: investors are, they may be prepared to wear that, but 522 00:27:41,013 --> 00:27:44,293 Speaker 3: it takes that machine off the league. I think in 523 00:27:44,453 --> 00:27:46,653 Speaker 3: terms of you might be able to get a big 524 00:27:46,693 --> 00:27:48,493 Speaker 3: fish if they're still able to play tests rugby, you 525 00:27:48,573 --> 00:27:49,773 Speaker 3: might be able to and then you know, you get 526 00:27:49,813 --> 00:27:51,133 Speaker 3: one fish, you might be able to get two or 527 00:27:51,173 --> 00:27:53,293 Speaker 3: three more. At the moment, you're probably going to get 528 00:27:53,293 --> 00:27:56,133 Speaker 3: what Ryan Papenhou's and rod to ty vasishek. Well, I 529 00:27:56,173 --> 00:27:58,133 Speaker 3: can see these well, could have seen these players in 530 00:27:58,333 --> 00:28:00,973 Speaker 3: the NRL week in week out playing a competition that 531 00:28:01,093 --> 00:28:02,053 Speaker 3: was much more interesting. 532 00:28:02,173 --> 00:28:04,453 Speaker 4: And they're a big deal in Australasia. 533 00:28:04,653 --> 00:28:05,173 Speaker 3: Yeah, but. 534 00:28:06,653 --> 00:28:10,453 Speaker 4: Who really knows about them in Barcelona or do By? 535 00:28:10,613 --> 00:28:13,173 Speaker 3: Yeah? And yeah is anyone going to go along? And 536 00:28:13,333 --> 00:28:15,053 Speaker 3: I just don't see what the selling point is for 537 00:28:15,413 --> 00:28:18,013 Speaker 3: viewers in New Zealand and Australia to watch this. You 538 00:28:18,093 --> 00:28:21,533 Speaker 3: look at in New Zealand, there's not the market for 539 00:28:22,493 --> 00:28:25,453 Speaker 3: anything outside of Super Rugby and the NPC. In terms 540 00:28:25,493 --> 00:28:28,853 Speaker 3: of competitions, the English Premiership I think is on Sky, 541 00:28:29,053 --> 00:28:32,213 Speaker 3: but virtually no one watch it. Barely anyone here watches 542 00:28:32,213 --> 00:28:35,933 Speaker 3: the Six Nations. The USC is not on TV anymore, 543 00:28:35,973 --> 00:28:38,813 Speaker 3: the French Top fourteen's not on TV. The Japanese thing, 544 00:28:38,853 --> 00:28:40,493 Speaker 3: I think you get one game a week through Rugby Pars. 545 00:28:40,493 --> 00:28:42,973 Speaker 3: It's for the really die hard fan that wants to 546 00:28:43,013 --> 00:28:45,493 Speaker 3: watch that. So if you're not watching any of these 547 00:28:45,493 --> 00:28:47,853 Speaker 3: overseas leagues, now, why would you watch R three sixty 548 00:28:47,933 --> 00:28:50,493 Speaker 3: with a bunch of players that you know you've previously 549 00:28:50,533 --> 00:28:53,013 Speaker 3: watched in NRL and other competitions. 550 00:28:53,053 --> 00:28:54,933 Speaker 4: I don't get it, that's right, it's going to struggle 551 00:28:55,013 --> 00:28:58,893 Speaker 4: to get cut through. One interesting I've heard around R 552 00:28:58,933 --> 00:29:01,173 Speaker 4: three six is that they're not going to have a 553 00:29:01,293 --> 00:29:04,213 Speaker 4: broadcast and necessarily there's going to go on YouTube and 554 00:29:04,933 --> 00:29:09,533 Speaker 4: try and I guess grab fans that way. And that's 555 00:29:09,533 --> 00:29:12,213 Speaker 4: probably a smart play for a new entring into the market, 556 00:29:12,693 --> 00:29:17,493 Speaker 4: and that would allow content creators and maybe to capture 557 00:29:17,533 --> 00:29:22,413 Speaker 4: attention via social media. That's something that's traditional rugby doesn't 558 00:29:22,453 --> 00:29:25,853 Speaker 4: do well. It's very restrictive and what it allows people 559 00:29:25,933 --> 00:29:28,733 Speaker 4: to clip up and to show on socials and all 560 00:29:28,773 --> 00:29:33,173 Speaker 4: those sorts of things. So maybe that's a feather in 561 00:29:33,253 --> 00:29:35,533 Speaker 4: the cap, but it still has to get off the ground. 562 00:29:35,533 --> 00:29:39,133 Speaker 4: It still has to have people that you want to watch, 563 00:29:39,413 --> 00:29:42,173 Speaker 4: and it still has to produce a decent product. 564 00:29:42,533 --> 00:29:45,333 Speaker 3: It does. Topic three. Josh shakumsigns for the Highlanders in 565 00:29:45,453 --> 00:29:50,333 Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven. Interesting on both sides of this. The 566 00:29:50,653 --> 00:29:54,973 Speaker 3: factor that's come out now there's been a bit of 567 00:29:55,053 --> 00:29:57,973 Speaker 3: chatter that they Chiefs, that Honders wanted the Chiefs to 568 00:29:58,013 --> 00:30:00,973 Speaker 3: release him. Jacob wanted to go. Even some of the 569 00:30:01,053 --> 00:30:03,333 Speaker 3: quotes and the media release seem pretty pointed to the 570 00:30:03,413 --> 00:30:06,093 Speaker 3: fact that maybe they can try and get him early. 571 00:30:07,573 --> 00:30:09,813 Speaker 3: But as it stands, twenty twenty seven a good signing 572 00:30:09,853 --> 00:30:12,333 Speaker 3: for the Highlanders, but they're going to have to wait. 573 00:30:12,973 --> 00:30:16,053 Speaker 3: As it stands, what do you think is a possibility 574 00:30:16,053 --> 00:30:16,853 Speaker 3: a deal might get done. 575 00:30:16,893 --> 00:30:21,213 Speaker 4: There great signing for the Highlanders and great move for Josh. 576 00:30:21,333 --> 00:30:25,013 Speaker 4: Jacob had to happen. He has stagnated, we haven't seen 577 00:30:25,173 --> 00:30:29,853 Speaker 4: enough of him and he pretty much not wasted, but 578 00:30:30,973 --> 00:30:34,733 Speaker 4: he's been on ice and we've seen again another rung 579 00:30:34,813 --> 00:30:37,853 Speaker 4: down at provincial level. But just how influential he can 580 00:30:37,933 --> 00:30:40,053 Speaker 4: be and he could be a game changer for the 581 00:30:40,133 --> 00:30:42,533 Speaker 4: Highlanders with some of those other young guys coming through 582 00:30:43,973 --> 00:30:47,133 Speaker 4: as a real momentum building down there with some of 583 00:30:47,173 --> 00:30:51,053 Speaker 4: the recruitments. I don't see the Chiefs releasing him early. 584 00:30:51,493 --> 00:30:56,413 Speaker 4: It's not in their interests. I can understand why Jacob 585 00:30:56,453 --> 00:30:58,573 Speaker 4: would want to go, but I think he's also a 586 00:30:58,653 --> 00:31:02,333 Speaker 4: professional and he'll dig in and do his part for 587 00:31:02,413 --> 00:31:07,293 Speaker 4: the Chiefs. But for the benefit of the competition and 588 00:31:07,533 --> 00:31:10,213 Speaker 4: the individual and the case Jacob, I think the Chiefs 589 00:31:10,253 --> 00:31:12,493 Speaker 4: probably should release them, but it's not in their interests, 590 00:31:12,653 --> 00:31:13,493 Speaker 4: not in their interests. 591 00:31:13,893 --> 00:31:18,813 Speaker 3: But they did from memory get Joshuvani early out of 592 00:31:18,853 --> 00:31:20,933 Speaker 3: the Highlanders. I think he was released from the Highlanders 593 00:31:21,453 --> 00:31:24,253 Speaker 3: when was that twenty twenty one ish to go up 594 00:31:24,293 --> 00:31:26,293 Speaker 3: a year early to the Chiefs. So it has gone 595 00:31:26,333 --> 00:31:29,893 Speaker 3: the other way, and you know, different coaches, different management 596 00:31:29,933 --> 00:31:30,453 Speaker 3: in place, and. 597 00:31:30,773 --> 00:31:32,973 Speaker 4: You know, well, same case with Brady McAllister. 598 00:31:33,013 --> 00:31:36,013 Speaker 3: This year they've got Bradie Mcalliss there. So yeah, it's 599 00:31:36,053 --> 00:31:38,853 Speaker 3: not in their interest And we're far, far, far, far 600 00:31:38,933 --> 00:31:41,893 Speaker 3: far far down the track for planning for Super Rugby. 601 00:31:41,933 --> 00:31:43,533 Speaker 3: A lot of signings have been made et cetera. For 602 00:31:43,653 --> 00:31:47,133 Speaker 3: for next year. They may not have a really made replacement. 603 00:31:47,253 --> 00:31:50,813 Speaker 3: But for me yeah, you know it's gone up to 604 00:31:50,933 --> 00:31:53,733 Speaker 3: the Chiefs. Maybe they should just returned the favor and 605 00:31:54,373 --> 00:31:56,693 Speaker 3: you know down South would have been perhaps the noble 606 00:31:56,773 --> 00:31:59,413 Speaker 3: thing to do, but you know they're for their own interest. 607 00:31:59,453 --> 00:32:01,493 Speaker 4: I guess, yeah, I guess if you're John and Gibbs 608 00:32:01,573 --> 00:32:03,533 Speaker 4: coming into your first year's head coach, you want all 609 00:32:03,573 --> 00:32:05,813 Speaker 4: the depth fifteen Yeah you can. 610 00:32:05,933 --> 00:32:07,773 Speaker 3: I guess when you've lost four finals whatever it is 611 00:32:07,773 --> 00:32:10,453 Speaker 3: in a row, you need every possible answer that you 612 00:32:10,533 --> 00:32:16,013 Speaker 3: can out topic cup. Before Carter Gordon returns to the 613 00:32:16,093 --> 00:32:19,013 Speaker 3: Wallaby's one nrral game look at a pretty horrible and 614 00:32:19,093 --> 00:32:21,533 Speaker 3: drum and a weird way. You're great signing for the 615 00:32:21,693 --> 00:32:24,333 Speaker 3: ends after for Australian Rugby, getting him back and you know, 616 00:32:24,453 --> 00:32:27,293 Speaker 3: the player of immense promise. I think for both the 617 00:32:27,373 --> 00:32:29,933 Speaker 3: Reds and the Wallabies. I think he could have had 618 00:32:29,973 --> 00:32:32,293 Speaker 3: a pretty good league career if it wasn't for the 619 00:32:32,373 --> 00:32:35,173 Speaker 3: fact he basically got hamstrung so to speak, by the 620 00:32:35,213 --> 00:32:38,053 Speaker 3: back injury that he suffered this year, only got one 621 00:32:38,133 --> 00:32:40,413 Speaker 3: game and he's got the league build. To me, would 622 00:32:40,413 --> 00:32:42,013 Speaker 3: have been quite interesting to see how he goes there. 623 00:32:42,053 --> 00:32:44,413 Speaker 3: But in terms of that path towards twenty twenty seven. 624 00:32:44,973 --> 00:32:47,093 Speaker 3: I'm not saying he's the chosen one, but I think 625 00:32:47,133 --> 00:32:49,093 Speaker 3: it's a bit of a boost for the depth of 626 00:32:49,253 --> 00:32:51,733 Speaker 3: Leskis in both the Reds roll next year and also 627 00:32:51,733 --> 00:32:52,893 Speaker 3: when he takes over the Wallabies. 628 00:32:53,333 --> 00:32:56,333 Speaker 4: It was a massive indictment on Australian rugby and the 629 00:32:56,453 --> 00:32:59,453 Speaker 4: Eddie Jones era that he departed in the first place, 630 00:32:59,533 --> 00:33:03,573 Speaker 4: because yeah, he looked the goods and he still had 631 00:33:03,613 --> 00:33:06,493 Speaker 4: some developments in terms of game management, but he has 632 00:33:06,613 --> 00:33:11,653 Speaker 4: build his boots, his ability to challenge the line. It's 633 00:33:11,733 --> 00:33:15,333 Speaker 4: no surprise that the Wallabies have immediately put him back 634 00:33:15,333 --> 00:33:18,653 Speaker 4: in that squad, and interestingly, with Tom Liner, they're not 635 00:33:18,773 --> 00:33:20,933 Speaker 4: taking him on the Northern Tour to give him a 636 00:33:21,093 --> 00:33:23,493 Speaker 4: chance to recover. I think he's still twenty two years old, 637 00:33:23,933 --> 00:33:29,013 Speaker 4: but a big win for Rugby Australia and the Reds. Interestingly, again, 638 00:33:29,653 --> 00:33:31,933 Speaker 4: Carter Gordon and Tom Lion are going head to heads 639 00:33:32,013 --> 00:33:34,773 Speaker 4: for the ten jersey. Probably not ideal. Maybe Gordon could 640 00:33:34,813 --> 00:33:38,413 Speaker 4: play twelve or Line could play fifteen and a pinch 641 00:33:38,453 --> 00:33:43,893 Speaker 4: there is some depth in that Red's environments. Yeah, I guess, 642 00:33:43,933 --> 00:33:46,653 Speaker 4: on reflectioning, a bit of a shame that Gordon effectively 643 00:33:46,733 --> 00:33:48,853 Speaker 4: lost two years of his career by going to league. 644 00:33:49,093 --> 00:33:50,693 Speaker 3: Yeah, it took a punt on it didn't work out. 645 00:33:51,053 --> 00:33:54,933 Speaker 3: Titan's Scotch have changed all sorts of changes there. Don't 646 00:33:54,933 --> 00:33:57,813 Speaker 3: blame for coming back, but yeah, real shame because you know, 647 00:33:57,853 --> 00:33:59,773 Speaker 3: if he had a full year in the saddle, two 648 00:33:59,813 --> 00:34:00,933 Speaker 3: years in the saddle, who knows. 649 00:34:00,813 --> 00:34:03,453 Speaker 4: Where could have been starting at against the lines. 650 00:34:03,613 --> 00:34:05,773 Speaker 3: Yeah, so probably kicking himself over that a little bit 651 00:34:05,853 --> 00:34:08,293 Speaker 3: in retrospect before we go this probably last time was 652 00:34:08,453 --> 00:34:11,773 Speaker 3: each other face to face before Chicago. So give us 653 00:34:11,813 --> 00:34:13,533 Speaker 3: your Grand Slam predictions. 654 00:34:14,733 --> 00:34:17,853 Speaker 4: Well, I think it's important to note the context. No 655 00:34:18,413 --> 00:34:22,733 Speaker 4: Grand Slam for the Ax for fifteen years, they've won 656 00:34:22,893 --> 00:34:26,093 Speaker 4: five in history. Well, first of all, there's a bit 657 00:34:26,133 --> 00:34:29,413 Speaker 4: of chat about this. Is it a Does it qualify 658 00:34:29,613 --> 00:34:31,973 Speaker 4: as a Grand Slam tour? With the All Blacks and 659 00:34:32,013 --> 00:34:33,013 Speaker 4: Island playing in Chicago? 660 00:34:33,133 --> 00:34:35,933 Speaker 3: I think it does. I don't think you can behold 661 00:34:36,333 --> 00:34:39,013 Speaker 3: rugby in twenty twenty five to the same standards as 662 00:34:39,093 --> 00:34:42,213 Speaker 3: previous years. Rugby's completely changed. It's not like they're playing 663 00:34:43,173 --> 00:34:47,893 Speaker 3: all four away or in neutral venues. I think you 664 00:34:47,973 --> 00:34:51,773 Speaker 3: can still classified as a Grand Slam and going about 665 00:34:51,773 --> 00:34:54,133 Speaker 3: twenty five years, the idea of the All Blacks playing 666 00:34:54,533 --> 00:34:57,173 Speaker 3: Island Chicago would have been preposterous or about fifty it 667 00:34:57,293 --> 00:34:59,493 Speaker 3: certainly would have been preposterous. But this is the way 668 00:34:59,573 --> 00:35:03,213 Speaker 3: we're in now, and it's a game where you know 669 00:35:03,293 --> 00:35:07,053 Speaker 3: they're both on the ticket. No one's home team. To me, 670 00:35:07,133 --> 00:35:08,333 Speaker 3: I think it's still cancers to Grand Slam. 671 00:35:09,333 --> 00:35:11,813 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a much harder game for the All Blacks 672 00:35:11,813 --> 00:35:15,613 Speaker 4: if it's in Dublin, so it's an easier Grand Slam 673 00:35:15,733 --> 00:35:18,773 Speaker 4: Tour on paper. But it is a modern world and 674 00:35:19,333 --> 00:35:23,013 Speaker 4: it's not like the All Blacks are forcing Island to 675 00:35:23,053 --> 00:35:28,573 Speaker 4: go to Chicago. This is a mutually beneficial match for 676 00:35:28,973 --> 00:35:31,933 Speaker 4: both unions. Are both going to probably take walk away 677 00:35:31,933 --> 00:35:34,973 Speaker 4: of a million bucks each. And yeah, this is a 678 00:35:35,013 --> 00:35:38,293 Speaker 4: modern environment and it's pretty common every year, so I 679 00:35:38,413 --> 00:35:41,453 Speaker 4: think we'll see more Grand Slam Tours like this in 680 00:35:41,533 --> 00:35:45,453 Speaker 4: the future. So for me, it does still qualify. Prediction wise, 681 00:35:46,133 --> 00:35:47,893 Speaker 4: I don't think they get the Grand Slam. I don't 682 00:35:47,893 --> 00:35:50,013 Speaker 4: think on the basis of what we've seen this year, 683 00:35:50,413 --> 00:35:52,693 Speaker 4: I could sit here and predict that they are. I 684 00:35:52,813 --> 00:35:56,413 Speaker 4: think they lose at least one test on this tour. 685 00:35:56,613 --> 00:35:57,133 Speaker 4: What say you? 686 00:35:57,933 --> 00:35:59,813 Speaker 3: I think they do as well? I can't tell you 687 00:35:59,853 --> 00:36:02,413 Speaker 3: which game, but I just think, similar to you, that 688 00:36:02,693 --> 00:36:05,573 Speaker 3: string together full performances in a row is going to be. 689 00:36:05,613 --> 00:36:11,093 Speaker 4: Difficult, particularly with some of those injury out. You're starting 690 00:36:11,133 --> 00:36:14,133 Speaker 4: to test depth in important areas. 691 00:36:14,893 --> 00:36:17,453 Speaker 3: Having said that, with all due respect to our Welsh listeners, 692 00:36:17,493 --> 00:36:19,133 Speaker 3: if they get to three on the board, I'm not 693 00:36:19,253 --> 00:36:22,293 Speaker 3: sure that the Welsh will stop them getting the Grand Slam. 694 00:36:22,413 --> 00:36:24,093 Speaker 3: But stranger things have happened. 695 00:36:23,933 --> 00:36:26,533 Speaker 4: That's right. The Scotland Test worries me a little bit. 696 00:36:26,973 --> 00:36:29,973 Speaker 4: Scotland never beat the All Blacks. They've knocked over England 697 00:36:29,973 --> 00:36:34,333 Speaker 4: a lot in recent times. In Edinburgh. It'll be cold, 698 00:36:34,413 --> 00:36:38,493 Speaker 4: it'll be dark. I remember, I think it was the 699 00:36:38,613 --> 00:36:41,413 Speaker 4: last All Black Test there under Ian Foster and the 700 00:36:41,453 --> 00:36:43,973 Speaker 4: All Blacks were right up against it for sixty odd minutes. 701 00:36:44,373 --> 00:36:47,413 Speaker 4: And does this All Black team have the ability to 702 00:36:48,053 --> 00:36:50,973 Speaker 4: pull it out in the last twenty because you know, 703 00:36:51,093 --> 00:36:54,173 Speaker 4: Scotland at home are a difficult prospect. 704 00:36:53,893 --> 00:36:55,573 Speaker 3: Last time they were there in twenty two as well 705 00:36:55,693 --> 00:36:58,773 Speaker 3: Mark Talas scoring on debut, they got themselves out of 706 00:36:58,773 --> 00:37:01,373 Speaker 3: it a little bit of a hole there. You know, 707 00:37:01,453 --> 00:37:03,773 Speaker 3: Scotland are a good team, really good team. So yep, 708 00:37:04,653 --> 00:37:06,613 Speaker 3: it sounds I think they'll lose one of those games, 709 00:37:06,653 --> 00:37:10,013 Speaker 3: but I don't know one. It'll be to us right, 710 00:37:10,093 --> 00:37:14,253 Speaker 3: We direct for another week thanks to Forklift Solutions lifting 711 00:37:14,333 --> 00:37:16,813 Speaker 3: you and your business to a higher level of thanks 712 00:37:16,813 --> 00:37:18,933 Speaker 3: as well to Carry Sure for producing this week. We 713 00:37:19,013 --> 00:37:20,213 Speaker 3: will see you next time. 714 00:37:24,453 --> 00:37:26,973 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks ed B, listen live on 715 00:37:27,173 --> 00:37:30,093 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 716 00:37:30,173 --> 00:37:32,693 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.