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Speaker 1: The government's plan to get people off the job Seeker

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Speaker 1: benefit hasn't been as successful as they would wish. The

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Speaker 1: statistics show there's been a twelve percent increase in people

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Speaker 1: getting assistance in the past year. That's twenty two thousand

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Speaker 1: more kiwis receiving financial support on the job seeker alone.

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Speaker 1: That's the size of levin. So is this not working?

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Speaker 1: Why is it not working? And could it work? Max

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Speaker 1: Whitehead is an employment relation specialist with the white Head

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Speaker 1: Group and joins me this morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Max, Hey, Andrew. Wow, look it's

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Speaker 2: not good these numbers.

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Speaker 1: No, but why are the numbers dropping? I mean, they

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Speaker 1: put penalties in place, they put more hoops for people

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Speaker 1: to jump through. Why did it not work?

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Speaker 2: Well? It seems to me that the government have really

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Speaker 2: got a bit impression that this country's made up of

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Speaker 2: larger businesses. But I might not said it so often.

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Speaker 2: Ninety seven percent of all the enterprises in New Zealand

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Speaker 2: a small businesses. And that's the problem. They're small. They

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Speaker 2: don't have a lot of large money for robotics and

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Speaker 2: AI and all these other special things that are really

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Speaker 2: making the world hum at the moment, and so we're

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Speaker 2: at the rock bottom of our productivity in the whole

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Speaker 2: OE c D. So what's happening is our companies are inefficient, ineffective,

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Speaker 2: and we're still Our talent is just leaving in droves

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Speaker 2: and you know, the brain brain as they call it.

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Speaker 2: But it certainly is affecting small business. I know of

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Speaker 2: so many businesses now that I'm going to shut their

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Speaker 2: door or have done. And even in our family there's

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Speaker 2: three people that we know of who are terrified right now.

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Speaker 2: They are about to lose their jobs and they can't

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Speaker 2: find anything else. It really is affecting the real people

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Speaker 2: of New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the productivity, the lack of productivity is affecting us.

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Speaker 1: But there's also the belief, and you'll hear it on talkback,

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Speaker 1: is that there are so many people enjoying the lifestyle

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Speaker 1: of being on a benefit, supplementing it with cash jobs

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Speaker 1: or unreported side hustles or crime or whatever. The question

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Speaker 1: is how many people are routing? Is how many anny

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Speaker 1: bloods do we have? Is that number in the tens

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Speaker 1: of thousands or is it a smaller than we might reckon?

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Speaker 2: Well, I believe there might have been a lot of

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Speaker 2: that after COVID because they quite enjoyed the year staying

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Speaker 2: at home. But Lark, but I think it's not as

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Speaker 2: bad as it used to be. There are some people

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Speaker 2: out there, but I think those numbers are small. But

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Speaker 2: I think what is more concerning for New Zealand, and

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Speaker 2: I think our productivity shows it is that the talents

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Speaker 2: leaving and drows. Yes, some people are staying home, but

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Speaker 2: I think what we ought to be seeing Andrew that

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Speaker 2: the answer to this is that our government should stop.

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Speaker 2: They've done a wonderful job blocking leakage of money out

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Speaker 2: of the system, but look at what they do need

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Speaker 2: to do is focus on productivity and get incentives in

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Speaker 2: place so the home loans are then redirected into business

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Speaker 2: loans and also maybe put some assistance in for helping

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Speaker 2: businesses understand better robotics AI get these things, are automation

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Speaker 2: going into the workplaces a lot better. You know, like

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Speaker 2: farmers for example, all around the world, are you using well,

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Speaker 2: they don't even drive tractors anymore. They set them on

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Speaker 2: their way and away they go. There's so much to

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Speaker 2: be that could be done, get our productivity up and

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Speaker 2: to make out some more of effective nation.

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Speaker 1: Max. I thank you so much. News Talks MB and

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. Overall numbers of people on the benefit

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Speaker 1: did actually drop by one point three percent, so it

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Speaker 1: is working.

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Speaker 2: For more. From Early edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live

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