1 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Kiota. 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. The government's 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: confirmed it's going ahead with scrapping the current NCA system. 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: Cabinets agreed to an overhaul of secondary school qualifications, replacing 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: NCEA with new subject based. 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 3: Assessments in year twelve and year thirteen. 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: Education Minister Erica Stanford says consultations showed strong support for 9 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 2: structurals change. 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 3: So what are the changes? 11 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: So NCA will be replaced with a new system with 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 2: two levels over years twelve and thirteen. They'll be subject 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 2: based assessment four years twelve and thirteen, removing NCA Level 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: one and replacing it with curriculum driven learning in year eleven. 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: A Foundational Award will be introduced in year eleven, recognizing 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: a student's a chief in literacy and numeracy, and all 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: year eleven students will study English and maths from twenty 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 2: twenty eight. So today on the front page, PPTA President 19 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: Chris Abercrombie is with us to dive into the detail 20 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: or like thereof. So, Chris, what's your first reaction to 21 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 2: this announcement. 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 3: I suppose of an announcement. 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's exactly it. It's really disappointing. 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 5: There's been seven months in the government made an announcement 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 5: in August last year, and basically this announcement is their 26 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 5: announcement that we're going to have two levels of assessment, 27 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 5: that level one will be foundational and that there's going 28 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 5: to be a vocational pathway system. And we knew that 29 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 5: in August last year. 30 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: Well that's what I was thinking. We kind of already 31 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: knew that. Hey, so the devil will be in the 32 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: detail here. 33 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 4: Absolutely, and look, time's running out. 34 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 5: The Minister wants this done basically, so she said the 35 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 5: year ninth they're going to be the first cohort through, 36 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 5: So that's twenty two months away when they start year eleven. 37 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 5: And you know we've also got our election period that 38 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 5: seems to shut down for a few months. So the 39 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 5: reality is we've got eighteen months in change before these 40 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 5: year ninees are going to be doing this new assessment system. 41 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 5: And that's an incredibly tight time frame to do an 42 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 5: education system from effectively scratch. We take the vocational pathways, 43 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 5: it doesn't exist as of right now, none of that exists. 44 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 5: Is incredibly optimistic and going to put so much pressure 45 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 5: on the system. 46 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: National does seem to be making a lot of changes 47 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: in education. It feels like there's a new story every 48 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: month or so about Oh, we're changing this, we're changing that, 49 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: We've spoken to parents, we've spoken to teachers, etc. What 50 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: kind of pressure does this put on teachers in schools 51 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 2: and is it all getting a bit complicated? 52 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 5: Oh, a huge amount of pressure. So i' vis at 53 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 5: schools quite reguarly. It's one of the awesome parts of 54 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 5: this role. And I was literally up in Aukland this week, 55 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 5: and I've been in Otago in South London the weeks before, 56 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 5: and the number one thing PET teachers are saying to 57 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 5: me is that we're sick of this political ping pong. 58 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 4: We're sick of this change. 59 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 5: We want stability for us, for our students, for our parents, 60 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 5: for our community, and this change on change on change 61 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 5: is creating so much stress and uncertainty, you know, and 62 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 5: even this might be the best change in the world, 63 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 5: but if you're doing fifteen of them all at the 64 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 5: same time, you know things are going to fall through 65 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 5: the cracks. 66 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: Well, because it's pretty widely thought that there are problems 67 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 2: with NCA, the moment. Hey, the Minister has said that 68 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: NCAA has become increasingly fragmented, difficult to understand, too easy 69 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: to gain. 70 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 3: Would you agree with all that. 71 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 5: I think we all understood there were some issues with NCAA, 72 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 5: and that's why we were actually already on an agreed 73 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 5: change package under the previous government. And you know, there 74 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 5: was some issues around the flexibility that needed to be 75 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 5: tightened up, some coherence issues, that is, as the Minister said, taking. 76 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 4: Bits from different parts. 77 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 5: But I feel like we're really throwing the baby out 78 00:03:58,120 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 5: with the bath water. And I can give a get 79 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 5: an example from my own teaching. So at times I've 80 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 5: created a humanities course which borrows from geography, from history, 81 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 5: from social studies to create a course to meet the 82 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 5: needs of my students. Under this proposed system of siloed subjects, 83 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 5: I won't be able to do that. 84 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 4: And so you know that flexibility. 85 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 5: While I absolutely agree i'd gone too far in some cases, 86 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 5: this feels again like I swing back the other way 87 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 5: to like you must sit in a class and learn 88 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 5: the kings and queens of England in order to pass 89 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 5: the exam, And it just feels like we're going back 90 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 5: to the nineteen fifties instead of focusing on the future. 91 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 2: The Great Gatsby is going to get popular again, isn't 92 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: it exactly? 93 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 4: And we're going to be talking about that green light 94 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 4: at the end of the dock. 95 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: Well, the Minister talked a lot in her speech today 96 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: about her announcement about deep learning. Does that suggest that 97 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: we haven't been engaging in deep and rich learning for 98 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: the past twenty odd years. 99 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 5: And of course not. I mean, that's a ridiculous thing 100 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 5: to say that we haven't been. I mean, so if 101 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 5: you think about NCAA, you think we're about twenty years 102 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 5: of it. So people who have done NCAA are in 103 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 5: their late thirties forties now, So the adoptors, their nurses, 104 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 5: their politicians, their reporters, that everyone in our society from 105 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 5: every level has done NCAA, and to suggest that they 106 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 5: didn't engage in deep learning or didn't show their understanding 107 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 5: or knowledge is really doing a disservice to the last 108 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 5: twenty years plus years of teaching and learning and actually 109 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 5: to a vast majority of the people working in in 110 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 5: our society at the moment. 111 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 3: What is a deep and rich understanding of a subject? 112 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,239 Speaker 4: Well, that's a great question. That is a great question. 113 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 5: I like to think I always taught a deep and 114 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 5: rich understanding on my subjects when I taught my students, because. 115 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 4: That's how you learn, and that's how you learn. 116 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 5: But what seems to be at the moment from this government, 117 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 5: and we've seen some of the drafts of the knowledge 118 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 5: rich curriculum, as the mister likes to call it, I 119 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 5: call it content specific, is actually that's impossible to do 120 00:05:59,200 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 5: because you. 121 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 4: Cover so much information. 122 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,559 Speaker 5: You know, one of the standards, one of the parts 123 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 5: of the new curriculum seems to suggest that we're going 124 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 5: to teach our junior students. 125 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 4: I think it was year six, two. 126 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 5: Thousand years of Chinese history and a matter of weeks. 127 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 5: And I don't know how deep and meaningful you can 128 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 5: get in two thousand years of history and a matter 129 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,239 Speaker 5: of weeks. And so there seems to be this real 130 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 5: disconnect between the different parts of what's happening. 131 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 4: We've got curriculum development. 132 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 5: Going over here, we've got assessment development going over here. 133 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 5: They don't seem to be talking to each other. So, 134 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 5: you know, what are we actually going to assess if 135 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 5: we don't have a curriculum to assess yet? 136 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 2: Well, there has been widespread consultation across the country about this, 137 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: and they have said, look, we've spoken to teachers, principles, etc. 138 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: But do you think that they are considering the I 139 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: guess macro impact on schools. I'm thinking the logistics of 140 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 2: getting all of this off of the ground, explaining it 141 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: to the kids, explaining it to the parents, getting the 142 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 2: different resources involved. 143 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:03,799 Speaker 3: You know that kind of stuff. 144 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 4: Absolutely, And that's where my focus really is. 145 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 5: I'm getting sick of these philosophical discussions about assessment and announcements, 146 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 5: about announcements. I want the nuts and bolts. I want 147 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 5: to know what I'm going to be teaching in the 148 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 5: next year. I want to know what I'm going to 149 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 5: be assessing. I want to know what a past grade is. 150 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 5: I want to know am I going to giving their 151 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 5: kid an A grade or a B grade or a 152 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 5: C grade. I want to know these things. I want 153 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 5: to know if science is going to be compulsory. I 154 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 5: want to know if we're going to have to build 155 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 5: more science lamps, if we got all of the hire 156 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 5: more science teachers. These real nuts and bolts questions that 157 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 5: impact the day to day of teachers, of students of 158 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 5: family are missing completely from this announcement, and they've had 159 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 5: seven months to do this, So there's been seven months 160 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 5: to come up with an announcement that was basically the 161 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 5: same announcement, and it's incredibly frustrating. 162 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 4: And I'm already. 163 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 5: Fielding messages from teachers are going, well, was the point 164 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 5: of that announcement? 165 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 4: You know? 166 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 5: It hasn't given me any more information to share with 167 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 5: my families, my students, in my colleagues, and so. 168 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 4: It's just it's just really really frustrating. 169 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: If I could say harsher words, I would, because that's 170 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: how at the moment to me, Frank, we're just we're 171 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: a bit pissed off about the whole thing, to be honest, 172 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: and it's just because it's not helpful. 173 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 4: If we want a long lasting, world. 174 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 5: Class education system, all parts of it need to work together. 175 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 5: Like I had no idea about the second tranch information 176 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 5: until eight o'clock this morning. And I lead an organization 177 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 5: that represents twenty two thousand secondary teachers and principles. 178 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 4: The people who are going to be doing. 179 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 5: The may and I didn't know about that until eight 180 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 5: o'clock this morning, and it's really frustrated. 181 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 6: I was at a breakfast. Recently, I was chatting with 182 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 6: some young people and it impressed upon me this one comment. 183 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 6: A young man and yet thirteen said to me. He 184 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 6: said to me, minister, it is much harder to fail 185 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 6: in Cea than it is to pass, And that really 186 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 6: struck a chord with me. We've heard directly from the 187 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 6: community as well. More than ten thousand New Zealanders, including 188 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 6: teachers and parents and business people and students themselves, have 189 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 6: all had their say and they told us very clearly 190 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,599 Speaker 6: the system needs a structural change, and that is exactly 191 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 6: what we are delivering. We're building a new system that 192 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 6: is clearer, more consistent across schools, and more internationally comparable. 193 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: Well, we're hearing that English and maths will be studied 194 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 2: in year eleven from twenty twenty eight, so that'll be 195 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: made compulsory. And you mentioned there's science as well. Should 196 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: science be compolsed thory in year eleven. 197 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 5: I think there's a decision for the DISCORDI has been 198 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 5: made obviously, but I don't really have. 199 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 4: An opinion on about if science should be composed. 200 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 5: But what I do know if it is going to 201 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 5: be compulsory, we need to make that decision soon. 202 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 4: And we need to have the resources to do it. 203 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 5: We know that schools are already struggling to get science teachers, 204 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 5: you know, so there's no point in making science compulsory. 205 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 4: Iff Actually there's no one to teach it. 206 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: There's no point of making speakers are expensive. 207 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 4: Exactly, exactly, and this thing we already know. Schools have 208 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 4: shortages of labs. I went to a school not long ago. 209 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 5: They had basically one and a half science labs, you know, 210 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 5: like and it's like, well, all of a sudden, we're 211 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 5: going to make every year eleven do science. 212 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 4: Then where are they going to do it? 213 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 5: And these are again you thought about that nuts and 214 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 5: bolts at that that macro level of actually, how is 215 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 5: this going to look feel sound like in the classroom 216 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 5: with these young people who you know, deserve the absolute best, 217 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 5: And that's where we come from, that's where teachers come from. 218 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 4: Our young people deserve the best. 219 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 5: And at the moment, this government doesn't seem to be 220 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 5: really delivering that. It's just a bunch of sound bites 221 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 5: that that don't really move the conversation forward. 222 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: But the minister placed a lot of emphasis on exams 223 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 2: that under NCA, lots of students were able to even 224 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: avoid setting exams. Why are exams so important in terms 225 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 2: of setting students up for success in the world? 226 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 4: Look at other exams are important. 227 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 5: I'm a history teacher, might my students do exams, and 228 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 5: I think it's important yet that you do do exams, 229 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 5: But I also don't think it's the b or an 230 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 5: end or of your life. I'm forty three now, and 231 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 5: I think it was probably twenty plus years ago the 232 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 5: last time I did an exam. And I think people listening, 233 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 5: you know, watching, like when was the last time you 234 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 5: actually had to sit down in a room for three 235 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 5: hours to do an exam? 236 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 4: The minister didn't do an exam to get into Parliament. 237 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 5: And I sort of feel like, you know, if it's 238 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 5: sort of good for the ghost, good for the gander 239 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 5: kind of thing. 240 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 4: And I'm not saying we shouldn't do exams. 241 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 5: I think there's some learning that can be assessed really 242 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 5: well with an exam technique, but not all learning should 243 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 5: be assessed by exams, and it shouldn't be that the 244 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 5: b or an end or of assessment. You can assess 245 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 5: and knowledge through many different ways, and that's understanding our students. 246 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 5: We know that our students are having more specific learning needs, 247 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 5: particularly in eurodiverse students. We know our special assessment conditions 248 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 5: are skyrocketing. So that's things like a read writer. That's 249 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 5: things like a single room so you're not in a group. 250 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 5: And that was already putting pressure on schools to find 251 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 5: people to run that and rooms to host them. And 252 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 5: now we're like everyone's going to be doing exams every 253 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 5: year all the time. 254 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 4: It just feels really, you. 255 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 5: Know, there's only so many times you weigh the peg 256 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 5: before you realize it's not getting bigger, you know, like, 257 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 5: so what's the real point of it? And that's where 258 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 5: we come back with a lot of this stuff. Is 259 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 5: it going to make the teaching and learning better? Is 260 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 5: it going to make the outcomes better? And if the 261 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 5: answers know, then why are we doing it? 262 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? 263 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 2: And the fact of the matter is some kids are 264 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 2: just really good at cramming all of the history knowledge 265 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 2: three hours before and the night before and a really 266 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 2: good and exams situations. 267 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 4: To be frank, there was me. I loved exams. 268 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 5: Measure the workout like a couple of days before he 269 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 5: had read all my notes and I'm so old. We 270 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 5: used to have a cassette tape that I would play 271 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 5: that had my some of the history stuff on it. 272 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 5: So that was and I did well in exams, but 273 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 5: I also know some of my the people I went 274 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 5: to school with, and some of the students I taught didn't. 275 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 5: Exams are really hard and stressful, and actually I know 276 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 5: some brilliant people who would do miserably at exams. 277 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 4: And so we just got to it's got to be 278 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 4: horses for courses basically. 279 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,719 Speaker 2: And this blanket approach I supposed to learning, it does 280 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 2: all seem about old school. Do you English, do your maths, 281 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 2: do your science? Perhaps, But with the growing awareness of 282 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 2: neurodiversity and different ways of learning in schools and how 283 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 2: kids are so different from one another, how will this 284 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: return to I suppose the old age of teaching impact 285 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 2: neurodivergent students, for instance, it's. 286 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 4: A real sence. 287 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 5: So there's obviously those students that say with specific learning 288 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 5: needs on neurodiverse or even dles here all of these 289 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 5: other things that we understand so much better today than 290 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 5: we did ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, and support them 291 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 5: to be the best that they can be. But there's 292 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 5: also what I'm really concerned about is this bland saneness 293 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 5: creeping across our system? 294 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 4: That you know that the. 295 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 5: School and Takapoona is going to be exactly the same 296 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 5: as the school in Twice all and it's like, well, 297 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 5: actually they're different schools with different communities. Now, should we 298 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 5: have the same high expectations, absolutely, but what the priorities 299 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 5: are might be different. 300 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 4: I've taught in many different schools on it. 301 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 5: I taught in Central Otago and viviculture, winemaking was a 302 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 5: big part of our community, so that was in our school. 303 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 5: I taught on the west coast of the South Island. 304 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 5: Mining was a big part and that was in our school. 305 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 5: And this really like one size standardization is going to, 306 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 5: you know, take away those things that make the someone's 307 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 5: local school. 308 00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 4: They're awesome local school. 309 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 5: And we know parents really value their local school and 310 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 5: their local teachers. And so I'm really worried this bland 311 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 5: saneness is going to creep across our system. 312 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: And in terms of that same and I mean, what 313 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: happens to the kids who perhaps don't work well in 314 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 2: school environments, are going to go down a vocational kind 315 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 2: of training route anyway and decide to leave before year eleven? 316 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 4: What good is it to them exactly? 317 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 5: And you mentioned the vocational system, and I think this 318 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 5: is a great idea. I really get behind this idea 319 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 5: because we've never really had a national vocational system, and 320 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 5: I think it's important, you know, because there has to 321 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 5: be options for our young people. 322 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 4: Not everyone's going to become adopted. Not everyone's going to 323 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 4: become a lawyer, and to be frank, we don't want 324 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 4: everyone to do that. You know. 325 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 5: We need all parts of our society to be functioning 326 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 5: at their best. And I think during recent events, you know, 327 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 5: think of COVID, Actually the ones that really made our 328 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 5: society work, you know, wasn't wasn't the lawyers, wasn't the bankers, 329 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 5: wasn't the financial analysts. 330 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 4: It was the tradees, it was the truck drivers, it 331 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 4: was those groups. 332 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 5: And so those vocational pathways are absolutely vital. But as 333 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 5: of right now, those industry standards boards a brand new 334 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 5: is my understanding. They haven't got their funding yet, they 335 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 5: haven't been stood up to create the creculunt And again 336 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 5: it's about access. So I mentioned twice on a tacopana. 337 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 5: I want the student in twice all to be able 338 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 5: to do automotive about to do electrical engineering, about to 339 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 5: do hospitality, about to do hair dressing as much as 340 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 5: the student and tacaprener should be able to do that. 341 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 4: And that's a big concern about staffing. 342 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 5: Again, there's nuts and bolts classrooms, the ability you know 343 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 5: you're going to be working with the community, you're going 344 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 5: to be working with outside providers, all of that details missing, 345 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 5: and it's just it feels like we're just really just 346 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 5: all on tenderhooks waiting for the next bit. 347 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: Does any curriculum going forward have to factor in the 348 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: likes of AI and the way that that's perhaps changing 349 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: how students retain information and even absolutely so. 350 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 5: One of the awesome parts of this role I have 351 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 5: now is I get to meet other people from all 352 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 5: around the world and talk about education. You may figure 353 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 5: it out a bit of an education neared and so 354 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 5: I was recently at an international summer and AI was 355 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 5: a big topic of conversation and about how that could work. 356 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 5: And we're talking about the Estonian government supplying twenty thousand 357 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 5: licenses to they're seeing your students, about the news of 358 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 5: an educational AI and training five thousand teachers in it. 359 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 5: We're talking about other jurisdiction Singapore and how they're using AI. 360 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 5: But at the heart of it, at the heart of it, 361 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 5: and everyone agreed that teaching is a human relationship between 362 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 5: student and teacher. So AI needs to support that relationship. 363 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 5: And if it doesn't doesn't support that relationship, doesn't make 364 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 5: it stronger, then there's no point in using it. But 365 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 5: absolutely AI in the terms of how to assess say 366 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 5: I'm a history teacher, I'd be really wary about setting 367 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 5: an essay for the students to work on. You know, 368 00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 5: it's AI is an amazing tool. It'll be interesting to 369 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 5: see how it plays out. And I'll just give a story. 370 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 5: So talking about Estonia, and I was very lucky to 371 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 5: visit there, and we visited at school and one of 372 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 5: these senior students had done a survey of the class 373 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 5: or their school to see how they use AI, and 374 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 5: one of the things was forty seven percent said plagiarism. 375 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 5: And I was like, oh, hang on, you do you 376 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 5: mean checking for plagiarism like checking your work or do. 377 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 4: You mean copying and pasting? And she said, I know, 378 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 4: copying and pasting. 379 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 5: So you know, we know your young people are doing that, 380 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 5: and you know from here in New Zealand, all the 381 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 5: way to Estonia, and so any system I don't think 382 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 5: you're ever going to make a full proof, but any 383 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 5: system needs to be able to show how AI can 384 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 5: support learning and not take away from it. 385 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 6: We've lost over the last twenty years is deep understanding 386 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 6: of curriculum subjects. Every other country in the world has that. 387 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 6: Body followed us on our approach of standards based assessment, 388 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 6: and what we saw was very superficial learning across different 389 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 6: subjects that were different in every school that you go to. 390 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 6: We will now have rich deep learning and subject areas 391 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 6: and many subject areas. In fact, I sat down with 392 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 6: the curriculum writers. There's about eighty odd groups of them 393 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 6: all writing at the moment, so there'll be plenty of 394 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 6: subjects available. 395 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 2: What would you like to see when she comes out 396 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 2: in the second announcement? 397 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 3: What do you reckon? 398 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 2: What would you suggest would be the best way to 399 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 2: explain this to people? 400 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 3: What do you want to see? What's the first thing 401 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 3: you're looking out for. 402 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 5: Well, the first thing we're going to be looking out 403 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 5: for is how's the assessment going to work. Is it 404 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 5: going to be ABCD, is it going to be you 405 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 5: have to pass by subjects? A year twelve to get 406 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 5: your certificate? Is it going to be you have to 407 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 5: get fifty one percent? You know, I did school birth 408 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 5: around forty six percent was a pass to school grosery, 409 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 5: you know, And so all of these real nuts and 410 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 5: bolts questions. Are you going to be able to chop 411 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 5: and change? Can you do a wee bit of history, 412 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 5: a wee bit of geography, a wee bit of science, 413 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 5: or do you have to do grow I'm only doing history, 414 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 5: I'm only doing physics, I'm only doing English. How's university 415 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 5: entrance going brow? What's our goals here? And that detail 416 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 5: is what we've really see. That's what teachers need to see, 417 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 5: you know, and that's what students need to see because 418 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 5: they say it's going to be twenty two months, you know, 419 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,479 Speaker 5: before our year nine are going to be doing this, 420 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 5: and there's no time at all in an education sense. 421 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 2: Well, speaking of those year nines, what kind of reassurances 422 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: can the ministry give to those guinea pigs students? I 423 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 2: suppose we can call the year nines today, who are 424 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: meant to be the first ones going through this, that 425 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 2: their education won't suffer because we're going to remember, these 426 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 2: are COVID kids as well. 427 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 5: Absolutely, and I think too we know that like you 428 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 5: mentioned COVID, and we know that it hit an impact 429 00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 5: in literacy and numeracy, and we know. 430 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 4: Teach been working really hard to improve that. 431 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 5: Again, it's something I talk to principals and schools quite 432 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 5: regularly about and they're working their guts out to get 433 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 5: those kids up, their skills up. And for my assurance, 434 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 5: and I want the Minister to give this assurance, is 435 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 5: that teachers and schools and the ministery and the government 436 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 5: will work their absolute guts out to get the best 437 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 5: outcome for those young people. 438 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 4: Because I already know teachers. 439 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 5: And schools are doing it, and I expect the same 440 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 5: from the minister and the ministry about it to match 441 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 5: the level of effort that schools and principles and teachers 442 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 5: are put in in to support these young people. 443 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 2: And just lastly, what is the likelihood do you think, 444 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: because there's no legislation required for this, right, so what's 445 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 2: the likelihood that there's a change of government they come in, 446 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 2: this will all be scrapped, It will be changed immediately. 447 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 5: Yet again, so this is something that teachers are really 448 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 5: worried about. 449 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 4: And I mentioned that that ping pong that swing. 450 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 5: We can't sustain more significant changes a sector, and that 451 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 5: just make that really clear, and our children can't, our 452 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 5: young people can't sustain any more major changes. 453 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 4: But there is nothing stopping it. 454 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 5: There's actually this government has demonstrated what you should do 455 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 5: in the first one hundred days is take a flame 456 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 5: throughout all the other decisions of the previous government. 457 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 4: And so I really hope if there is. 458 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 5: A change of government that they are responsible enough to 459 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 5: think about what's going well. And some of these changes 460 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 5: are good, as I say, the vocational pathways, the concept 461 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 5: is good, and what what actually needs to change, because 462 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 5: some things will need to change. I say, I'm a 463 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 5: social science teacher's history social studies. I think the new 464 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 5: social science curriculum is unworkable as the draft I've seen, 465 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 5: and I would love that to change. And so it's 466 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 5: about looking at what's working, what's not, Listening to the sector, 467 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 5: listening to the experts, trusting each other because that trust 468 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 5: is at a low level at the moment, and just 469 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 5: really focusing again what is best for the learning outcomes 470 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 5: of our young people and focusing on that. 471 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: And by the way, Chris, just one thing, lastly, are 472 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 2: you guys having I mean, have you heard of any 473 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: schools all talking about this fuel crisis and where the 474 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 2: kids are going to have to learn from home? And 475 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 2: staff for those conversations starting absolutely. 476 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 5: Actually, I was an Auckland visiting school's Tuesday and Wednesday 477 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 5: this week and that was one of the topics of 478 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 5: the conversation that came up. 479 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 4: Now, I want to make this very clear. We're not advocating. 480 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 5: Working from home for learning from home, but what we 481 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 5: are advocating for is having a plan. You know, what steps, 482 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 5: at what point is it going to be triggered. We 483 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 5: haven't had that information yet, you know, and we know that. 484 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 5: I was reading some articles today, you know, school trips, 485 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 5: school buses, you know, people travel, particularly in some of 486 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 5: our other areas. 487 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 4: Travel significant distances to get the school. 488 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 5: I spoke to a teacher in Auckland who's driving an 489 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 5: hour each way to get the school. I've had emails 490 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 5: from relievers saying, well, actually, I'm not going to go 491 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 5: to that school a bit further away because it costs 492 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 5: me more. 493 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 4: I'll go to the closest school. And that means that 494 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 4: school's missing out. 495 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 5: And so we're absolutely getting feedback from teachers saying we're 496 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 5: really worried about this. What's the plan, what's going to happen? 497 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 5: And that's all we're asking the government and the ministry for. 498 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 5: We're not saying, hey, we need to go out home learning. 499 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 5: We're saying, hey, what's the plan for this? What's the 500 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 5: plan if it gets worse? What's the plan if we 501 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 5: get to emergency level where our levels of petrol and fuel? 502 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 5: And that's not been clear. And again we need that 503 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 5: nuts and bolts detail. That's how schools run. They don't 504 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 5: run on hope and philosophies. They run on nuts and bolts, 505 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 5: hard work of teachers, principles. 506 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 4: And the students and their community. 507 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 5: And so yeah, that's what we're really asking the government 508 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 5: for is just a plan. 509 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Chris. 510 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 4: Nora is at all. Thank you. 511 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 512 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 513 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 2: at enzidhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 514 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 2: hosted and produced by me Chelsea Daniels. Caine Dickie is 515 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,479 Speaker 2: our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer and editor, and 516 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 2: our executive producer. 517 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: Is Jane Ye. 518 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 2: Follow the Front page on the iheartapp or wherever you 519 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and join us next time 520 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 3: For another look beyond the headlines.