1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Juliana San Sager. As you well, Nizoba, he struck a deal, 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: hasn't actually signed it, I don't think yet, but wilted 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: and then on his way to Australia struck a deal 4 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: with the United States. He will plead guilty to an 5 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: espionage charge at a hearing in Saipan. The judge will 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: sentence him to sixty two months. Those sixty two months 7 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: have already been served. Then he's on the private jet 8 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: to Australia. Security Intelligent analyst Paul V. Kinnon's with us. Paul, 9 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: very good morning to you. 10 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 2: Goodmorrow, Mike. 11 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: I found the whole thing deeply fascinating. I think he's 12 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: a crook, But nevertheless, who wins do you think ultimately 13 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: out of this? 14 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: Well, actually the decision was rather solemnnic because you know, 15 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: he's been confined one way or another since twenty twelve, 16 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 2: so he's spent a lot of time by himself. And 17 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 2: the charge that he pleaded guilty to, as it turned out, 18 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 2: was the lesser of eighteen charges. He played guilty to 19 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: unlawfully obtaining and disseminating classified information related to the national 20 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: defense of the United States. It's who he shared that 21 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: information with and what I would say this, it was 22 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: Chelsea Manning who provided him with the videotapes of the 23 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: helicopter attack on civilians and journalists and Baghdad in twenty ten, 24 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 2: and that was a war crime. But what happened after that? 25 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 2: The information in the first instance of Wiki leaks put 26 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 2: out went to investigative journalists like Nicky Hager and that 27 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: sort of folk, But subsequent leaks went to the Russians. 28 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: The Hillary Clinton emails that basically upended the twenty sixth 29 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: campaign were obtained by Wiki leaks and then sent to 30 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: Russian intelligence. Now that was after Assange was arrested, while 31 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,639 Speaker 2: he was actually in the Ecuadorian industry hiding out there. 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: But I would say that Assange was very careless with 33 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: his dissemination of the sensitive information as a tatred of 34 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,639 Speaker 2: the United States. Now the US has gone this pound 35 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: of flesh out of him. He's a broken guy again. 36 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: He's been confined for what fourteen years or one way 37 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: or another. So to me, this sounds like, you know, 38 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 2: a fair way to end the entire thing. Now he 39 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: wants to pardon from this charge down the road. I 40 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 2: don't think he's going to get that, But the president 41 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: is twofold one, we still have the case where the 42 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 2: United States has gone after a working journalist for obtaining 43 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 2: information about war crimes. I guess it comes down to this, Mike. 44 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,119 Speaker 2: You either think he's a whistle blower or you think 45 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: he's a trader. Now he's not a US citizen, so 46 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: he can't be a trader to the United States. I 47 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 2: tend to think that he's a whistleblower who's gone rogue, 48 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: unlike Edward Snowden, who deliberately took very sensitive stuff and 49 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 2: gave it to the bad guys, not just investigative journalists, 50 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: and went way beyond what he claimed was his reasons, 51 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: which was that they were on Americans un lawfully. I 52 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: separate the two out. I think that just assange because 53 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: of this abiding hatred of the United States. And there's 54 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: many people in the journalistic community who have this sort 55 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: of states for the United States for various sins committed 56 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 2: over their history, who I won't say they deliberately tried 57 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: to hurt the US, but they are very careless with 58 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: their journalist ethics. 59 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: Exactly good on your Poul Listener. I apologized with the 60 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: quality of that line, but we've got to get insult 61 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: and appreciate it very much. Is regards the role of 62 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: the Australian government to be fascinating to see what's the 63 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: process to say to write thirty This Morning, seven twenty. 64 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Housking Breakfast, listen live to 65 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: news talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 66 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.