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Speaker 1: Cop twenty nine, they stumbled across the line with a

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Speaker 1: new deal to help poorer nations. Like so many times before,

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Speaker 1: it was on the verge of collapse. Of course, are

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Speaker 1: the money raised for the fund isn't what they wanted

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Speaker 1: or anywhere near it? That it was better than nothing?

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Speaker 1: Ed young professor at the New Zealand Climate Change Research Institute,

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Speaker 1: Adrian Macy is back. Will this Adrian? Good morning to you?

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Speaker 2: Good morning mite?

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Speaker 1: Is this still useful a cop?

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Speaker 2: In a word? No?

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Speaker 1: I think the worst I ever did was sticking a

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Speaker 1: number next to it, because twenty nine just reminds you

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Speaker 1: there were twenty eight other times it didn't quite come

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Speaker 1: together the way they thought.

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Speaker 2: Well, we have had it has been a necessary negotiation.

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Speaker 2: Since two thousand and five, when the latest phase began,

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Speaker 2: we've had nineteen cops and that have been one outstanding.

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Speaker 2: The successful one was the Paris one back in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: which did set a soundtrack with a new international climate regime.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty good, it looks pretty robust. This last cop

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Speaker 2: tidied up one of the last pieces of powers of

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Speaker 2: green that hadn't been finaliz satus on international carbon markets.

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Speaker 2: But aside from a New Zealand played a role in that,

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Speaker 2: but aside from that, this is just a repetition of

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Speaker 2: the pattern we go into each cop at the end

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Speaker 2: of the year saying this is roughly, this is the

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Speaker 2: last chance to save the planet and if we fail

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Speaker 2: here there'll be dire consequences, and we go ahead and sail.

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Speaker 2: This year was interesting because it's the first time there

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Speaker 2: have been quite a few voices saying, hang on a minute,

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Speaker 2: is this really the right way of going about things?

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Speaker 2: Don't need to completely revamp this negotiation. So yeah, I

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Speaker 2: didn't take much much notice as it was going along,

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Speaker 2: but every time I checked, it was going in exactly

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Speaker 2: the same direction, heading exactly where I thought it would

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Speaker 2: h a good political signal, you know, the money stuff.

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Speaker 2: But it's still not. You know, it's still not a

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Speaker 2: it's doing nothing. It doesn't save one ton of co

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Speaker 2: two actually decision no exactly.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you raised that carbon market thing because I

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Speaker 1: was reading about that over the weekend and simon what's

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Speaker 1: been involved in this? And I couldn't quite get my

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Speaker 1: head around it because the carbon market here, to my

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Speaker 1: own it doesn't work. Is this going to be any different?

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Speaker 1: Is that this is just a global agreement on carbon trading.

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Speaker 1: Does it work?

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Speaker 2: Will it work? It's how the yes, Well, it follows on.

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Speaker 2: You might have heard of the Under the Character Protocol

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Speaker 2: what they're called the Clean Development mechanism, which was where

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Speaker 2: effectively you made a commitment to reduce emissions. It was

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Speaker 2: pretty expensive in your country. So if you pay a

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Speaker 2: developing country to do some good projects in their country,

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Speaker 2: it's cheaper. You can save submissions for the planet and

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Speaker 2: you can get the credit for them. So there's two

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Speaker 2: aspects there that the new new mechanism now is going

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Speaker 2: to effectively, i think, replace the Clean Development mechanism. It'll

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Speaker 2: be very bureaucratic, but the rules are a lullstot sort

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Speaker 2: of reasonable. And secondly, there is another provision they've also finalized,

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Speaker 2: which is if you want to on you to do

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Speaker 2: it by their complicated U and system, get together with

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Speaker 2: some other countries and developing countries do the same thing,

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Speaker 2: but make sure you do it with proper environmental category

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Speaker 2: and report back. So yep, that's it's useful to have that,

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Speaker 2: but it's not it's not a in terms of the planet.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it game changer in the actual reduction of missions.

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Speaker 2: Just the point out makers. We've got this sort of

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Speaker 2: paradigm which is coming out again in some of the commentary.

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Speaker 2: It's sort of the guilty the guilty rich versus the

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Speaker 2: innocent core and the guilty rich not doing enough. But

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Speaker 2: the problem is that the guilty rich, the word rich

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Speaker 2: is applied only to those countries who are roughly the

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Speaker 2: OCD countries. Some of the wealthiest countries in the world

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Speaker 2: are not included in those goals. They are invited to contribute,

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Speaker 2: but they're all all the OPEC countries, for example, They're

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Speaker 2: not considered rich in the u N. So the potential

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Speaker 2: there of getting that tower of funds, it's it's it's

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Speaker 2: it's been asked for by you. Just this one group

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Speaker 2: of countries who recommend who represent a smaller and smaller

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Speaker 2: proportion of global emissions.

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Speaker 1: Good talk to you, Adrian, appreciate it very much. Good

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Speaker 1: insight as always, Adria and Macy Adric and professor of

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Speaker 1: the New Zealand Climate Change Research Institute. It's a good

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Speaker 1: bit of reading. It's in the news room sight that

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Speaker 1: what was involved. As far as I can talk about them,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about how markets a lot on

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Speaker 1: this program, our carbon market's a complete bust because no

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Speaker 1: one turns up to buy anything, and so therefore the

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Speaker 1: credits from auction one. There are four auctions a year,

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Speaker 1: no one buys anything in auction one, so all the

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Speaker 1: credits from auction one go into Auction two, along with

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Speaker 1: the credits of Auction two. So you got twice as

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Speaker 1: many credits and no demands. Supply demands not hard to

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Speaker 1: work out, and by the time you get to the

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Speaker 1: end of the year auction four, no one's bought anything.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not sure really it's going to solve anything up.

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio