Speaker 1: You're listening to the Resident Builder podcast with Peter wolf
Speaker 1: Camp from News Talks at B. Whether you're painting the ceiling,
Speaker 1: fixing the fence, or wondering how to fix that hole
Speaker 1: in the wall, give Peter wolf Camp a call on
Speaker 1: eight The Resident Builder on News Talks at B.
Speaker 2: The house is a hoo even when it's dark, even
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Speaker 2: the dog is too old to barn. And when you're
Speaker 2: sitting at the table trying not to stop mose scissor.
Speaker 3: Hole, even when we are ben gone, even when you're
Speaker 3: there alone, ld.
Speaker 4: House is a hole even newshost, even when you go
Speaker 4: around fund the ones you love your most screamed. Does
Speaker 4: broken pants appeen in front of.
Speaker 2: Locals vestall when they're gone and leaving them has even
Speaker 2: when we'll run, even when you're in there alone.
Speaker 5: Very very good farming and welcome along to the show.
Speaker 5: My name is Peter wolf Campus is the Resident Builder
Speaker 5: on Sunday. And well, I've moved, I've moved. This is
Speaker 5: this is dis combobulating. Just I've moved from where I
Speaker 5: regularly broadcast, which is the small studio with a standing
Speaker 5: desk too. Well, Basically, it feels like it's everybody's studio,
Speaker 5: but it's not. It's my costing studio in a sense.
Speaker 5: And so I'm sitting which is slightly unusual for me.
Speaker 5: I'm in a much bigger space. It feels like Isaiah,
Speaker 5: my producer, is way further away. And the reason that
Speaker 5: I've moved over here is that I have a guest
Speaker 5: coming into the studio this morning from around seven thirty
Speaker 5: for a good chunk of time because we've got a
Speaker 5: lot to talk about. And so my guest in the
Speaker 5: studio after seven thirty is going to be the Minister
Speaker 5: for Building and Construction, Chris Pink, who some time ago
Speaker 5: when we chatted, we talked about the possibility of doing
Speaker 5: an in person interview over a slightly longer period of
Speaker 5: time that would also allow you to send in questions,
Speaker 5: whether that's by text or probably some calls as well,
Speaker 5: and he very gratefully said that he would or I
Speaker 5: was grateful, and so Chris Pink, the Minister for Building
Speaker 5: and Construction, will join me in the studio from around
Speaker 5: seven thirty onwards. Before then, of course, right now, and
Speaker 5: when I say right now, I mean like right right now,
Speaker 5: because the lines are open. You can call and we
Speaker 5: can talk all things building and construction. It's eight hundred
Speaker 5: and eighty ten eighty. It's nine to nine two for
Speaker 5: the text that zedbzb from your mobile phone. Remember there
Speaker 5: is a small fee for that. And if you'd like
Speaker 5: to send me an email, it's Pete at Newstalk zedb
Speaker 5: dot co dot NZ. So I trust you had a
Speaker 5: good week For those in the sort of upper part
Speaker 5: of the North Island, Auckland in particular, on Friday, we
Speaker 5: were reminded again seemingly of the need to build in
Speaker 5: terms of climate resistance or resilience. Rather, I wasn't in
Speaker 5: Auckland on Friday. I happen to be actually in Wellington
Speaker 5: on Friday, but I saw some video images and certainly
Speaker 5: I talked to the family and at the skies opened up,
Speaker 5: a bucketed down. There was not extensive flooding, but there
Speaker 5: was certainly localized flooding and considerable disruption, it seems, and
Speaker 5: it feels like we all know this now that these
Speaker 5: sorts of weather events are more and more common. There
Speaker 5: used to be a definition or there still is, around
Speaker 5: a one and one hundred year flood event. And I'm
Speaker 5: pretty sure I've mentioned before. You know, I've probably been
Speaker 5: experienced maybe five or six of those. And while I
Speaker 5: am getting older, and I'm older this week than I
Speaker 5: was last week, you know, these sorts of events are
Speaker 5: happening over and over and over again, and we're going
Speaker 5: to have to deal with it in terms of where
Speaker 5: we put our houses, how we build them, how we
Speaker 5: do infrastructure and so on. So happy to talk about that.
Speaker 5: I would also like to think, as a result of
Speaker 5: my one of my trips during the course of the week,
Speaker 5: that I bring a bit of a new insight into
Speaker 5: a couple of things. I had the opportunity on Friday
Speaker 5: to go and visit Brands, the Building Research Association of
Speaker 5: New Zealand. They are based in a fairly large sort
Speaker 5: of compound north of Wellington in Upper Hut and I
Speaker 5: had an invitation from their general manager of research to
Speaker 5: come and have a look through. That's Chris Litton. They
Speaker 5: were incredibly generous with their time and I really do
Speaker 5: sort of publicly want to acknowledge them for their hospitality,
Speaker 5: for the welcome, for sort of arranging for me to
Speaker 5: speak to different experts in different fields, to go for
Speaker 5: a tour of their facilities which are extensive and have
Speaker 5: been expanded rapidly in order for them to do even
Speaker 5: better testing on things that are really really important, like
Speaker 5: for example, and I was listening to Kerry actually talking
Speaker 5: with the fens of public relations person about lithium mion batteries.
Speaker 5: What happens when there's a fire. And there's a brand
Speaker 5: new fire testing laboratory that's been developed at Brands that
Speaker 5: will allow testing of entire buildings, like a small building,
Speaker 5: not just you know, one part of it, but an
Speaker 5: entire building. It will allow testing of facades up to
Speaker 5: three stories and allow testing in various furnaces as to
Speaker 5: see what happens when fire strikes and the impact of
Speaker 5: fire spread and fire penetrations, and what type of sealance work.
Speaker 5: So I you know, I like talking about building stuff.
Speaker 5: I like talking about the technicalities of building stuff. And
Speaker 5: in one we went to the structural lab and this
Speaker 5: is one for all of the tradees who might be listening.
Speaker 5: You know, if you've ever done if you've used plaster
Speaker 5: boarders bracing, you know that there's a pattern right how
Speaker 5: you're supposed to fix the do the fastness. So typically
Speaker 5: it's in from the corner fifty mil then fifty fifty
Speaker 5: to fifty seventy five, seventy five, then one fifty around
Speaker 5: the perimeter. You've got to make sure that your fixings
Speaker 5: are at least twelve millimeters in from the perimeter, etc. Etc.
Speaker 5: And then depending on what type of bracing it is,
Speaker 5: it'll have just the fixings with standard plaster board, it'll
Speaker 5: have the standard plaster board plus a hole down, et cetera, etc.
Speaker 5: And as it happened when I was there in the lab,
Speaker 5: they were testing a full sized sheet of plasterboard. I
Speaker 5: think it was to board. I'm pretty sure that had
Speaker 5: been nailed off as per a GS one, so the
Speaker 5: kind of lowest type of bracing without the hold downs.
Speaker 5: And so this wall was set up on a rig
Speaker 5: and they had a ram that was attached to the
Speaker 5: top of it that they could rack the whole thing
Speaker 5: back and forth as if it was experiencing seismic movement
Speaker 5: due to an earthquake, and then watching it essentially move,
Speaker 5: and I guess they test sometimes to destruction as well.
Speaker 5: So I found it fascinating. And again my thanks to
Speaker 5: the team at Brands for a very very warm, welcome,
Speaker 5: pretty miserable day and Wellington on Friday, but exceptionally beautiful
Speaker 5: day on Saturday at the Better Home and Living Show,
Speaker 5: which is still on today. Right, Oh, give me a
Speaker 5: call if you've got a question of a building nature.
Speaker 5: The lines are open. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty
Speaker 5: we can talk. I think at this time of year,
Speaker 5: maintenance is really really important. Maintenance is always important. But
Speaker 5: hopefully you've done your maintenance and you're ready for the winter,
Speaker 5: whether that's the wind, whether that's the rain, whether that's
Speaker 5: the cold that's coming. Hopefully you've done some stuff to
Speaker 5: prepare the house and get ready for winter. But if
Speaker 5: you need some help with that and I can offer
Speaker 5: some advice, well that'll be great. Eight hundred eighty ten
Speaker 5: eighty is that number to call if again, just sort
Speaker 5: of stepping forward a little bit, so the Minister for
Speaker 5: Building and Construction, Chris Pink will be in the studio.
Speaker 5: So if you've got if we're going to take questions,
Speaker 5: it's going to be very very specific one. So the
Speaker 5: reason I wanted to get the Minister in in my
Speaker 5: presentation in Wellington yesterday around trying to sort of look
Speaker 5: at and provide some insight into the quite extensive changes
Speaker 5: that are proposed for the regulations that control what we
Speaker 5: can build and where we can build and how we build. So,
Speaker 5: whether that's remote inspections, whether it's the wind back or
Speaker 5: the changes to H one, which is the part of
Speaker 5: the Building Code that deals with energy efficiency and insulation
Speaker 5: in particular, whether it's self certification for builders that's been
Speaker 5: in the news a fair amount recently, whether it's the
Speaker 5: introduction of legislation that might see granny flats up to
Speaker 5: seventy square meters being able to be built without necessarily
Speaker 5: requiring a building consent, toughening rules about LBPS and sort
Speaker 5: of trying to clamp down on lbp's licensed building practitioners
Speaker 5: who don't perform particularly well. That's out there as well.
Speaker 5: There's a whole host of regulatory and legislative changes that
Speaker 5: are being talked about that relates specifically to building and
Speaker 5: construction in New Zealand. So we'll take a deep dive
Speaker 5: into that in the next hour of the show, but
Speaker 5: right now the lines are open. The opportunity is yours
Speaker 5: to talk all things building and construction. If you've got
Speaker 5: a project that's underway, I know, spend a bit of
Speaker 5: time in Wellington the Home Show yesterday, chatting with people
Speaker 5: about the various sort of dilemmas, challenges, problems that they
Speaker 5: might have in terms of, you know, remediation after a flood,
Speaker 5: for example, or what choices do I make around the
Speaker 5: type of joinery that I might be installing. All of
Speaker 5: these sorts of things. There's just so much to talk about,
Speaker 5: so I'll stop, you can start. The lines are open.
Speaker 5: The number to call eight hundred eighty ten eighty call
Speaker 5: me out a squeaky.
Speaker 1: Door or squeaky floor, get the right advice from Peter Wolfcare,
Speaker 1: the resident builder on News Talks NB.
Speaker 5: Wrighty own News TALKSB. The lines are open for you.
Speaker 5: Eight hundred eighty ten are taking your calls right through
Speaker 5: till about seven thirty and then we will take a
Speaker 5: couple of calls. But it's an opportunity perhaps to spend
Speaker 5: a little bit of time with the Minister for Construction
Speaker 5: and or Building and Construction Chris Penk but right now
Speaker 5: would love to hear from you. So if you've got
Speaker 5: a question of a building nature and it look to
Speaker 5: be fair, it's a fairly wide topic. So if there's
Speaker 5: anything that is going on that you're unsure about, I
Speaker 5: listened with some interest. Funnily enough, on my sort of
Speaker 5: list of topics to discuss or to take a bit
Speaker 5: of a deep dive into, was lithium ion batteries and
Speaker 5: looking after them safely and on the Obviously, during the
Speaker 5: course of the week, Kerry reached out to FENS, which
Speaker 5: is far in an emergency in New Zealand, to talk
Speaker 5: to one of their experts about it. So I was
Speaker 5: listening to that interview in the little segment at the
Speaker 5: end of Jim's show that has highlights from Kerry's show
Speaker 5: and so on, so that that's been covered off, but
Speaker 5: I was the reason I wanted to raise it is
Speaker 5: that I guess for most of us who are either
Speaker 5: tradespeople or if you are doing an extensive amount of
Speaker 5: DIYF you're doing a fair amount of work at home,
Speaker 5: chances are you've got a number of cordless tools. Now,
Speaker 5: obviously if they're cordless, they're running on a battery. A
Speaker 5: significant number of those batteries would be lithium iron batteries
Speaker 5: with kind of most power tool brands now have moved
Speaker 5: to lithumi and iron batteries, and I was trying to
Speaker 5: do a bit of a calculation in my head the
Speaker 5: other day when I was thinking about this about like
Speaker 5: how many batteries I would actually have in terms of
Speaker 5: just for tools, and I think I got to close
Speaker 5: to twenty odd. I would say it possibly is a
Speaker 5: bit more than that. Some of those will be in
Speaker 5: the back of the ute with the kit that I
Speaker 5: keep in the back of the ute for when I'm
Speaker 5: working offsite. Then I've got a setup in the workshop
Speaker 5: as well, a couple of different brands of power tools.
Speaker 5: I've got you know, drills and drivers and skill saws
Speaker 5: and blowers and torches and routers and inflators and what else.
Speaker 5: There's quite an extensive range of bits and pieces with
Speaker 5: sort of the heavier batteries in them. Then there's you know,
Speaker 5: some of the nail guns have a slightly smaller, more
Speaker 5: compact battery. Then I've still got some old ten vault
Speaker 5: stuff that hasn't a small battery as well. I use
Speaker 5: that quite a bit this week as I was trying
Speaker 5: to sand up ballasters and things like that. And every
Speaker 5: now and then you hear stories about with your mind
Speaker 5: batteries bursting into flame, often while something else is going,
Speaker 5: you know, like a battery in good condition, stored on
Speaker 5: a flat surface, away from a heat source and so on,
Speaker 5: seems to be fairly low risk of sort of spontaneous combustion.
Speaker 5: But I must after reading a couple of stories this
Speaker 5: is like a year year and a half ago, about
Speaker 5: a battery that just seemed to spontaneously combust I kind
Speaker 5: of went through and looked at where I stored batteries
Speaker 5: when they're not in use, looked at where I located
Speaker 5: charges for when I am charging the battery, and changed
Speaker 5: a few practices so the batteries aren't jumbled up like
Speaker 5: in a drawer or in a pile. They're all set
Speaker 5: out next to each other. I've moved them slightly so
Speaker 5: they're in a slightly cooler part of the workshop. And
Speaker 5: I've certainly got into the habit of not leaving the
Speaker 5: battery on the charger for much longer than it needs
Speaker 5: to fully charge it. So even with lithium ion batteries,
Speaker 5: and even you know, like the charges that come with
Speaker 5: most professional cordless tools nowadays have a feature in them
Speaker 5: where they charge almost to completely charged, and then once
Speaker 5: they've reached that, they go on to a trickle charge.
Speaker 5: They don't just keep charging at the same rate that
Speaker 5: they used to, which I'm sure is a safety device
Speaker 5: and prevents perhaps batteries sitting on a charger overnight, you know,
Speaker 5: ten or twelve hours and overheating at that time. I'm
Speaker 5: pretty sure that that's the case. But either way, I've
Speaker 5: tried to sort of not schedule. That sounds a bit pretentious,
Speaker 5: but I've tried to sort of if I am charging
Speaker 5: batteries while I'm in the workshop, i'll charge them while
Speaker 5: I'm in the workshop. I've moved away from charging them,
Speaker 5: let's say overnight. If I finish at the end of
Speaker 5: the day and the battery's flat, generally i've got a spare,
Speaker 5: so I'll leave that one alone, and I'll put it
Speaker 5: on the charger the following day, and I turn the
Speaker 5: charges off overnight as well, so don't leave them on
Speaker 5: even without a battery in them. And I've noticed too
Speaker 5: that I've tried to move away from, Hopefully this is
Speaker 5: helpful to you. I've tried to move away from having
Speaker 5: like taking the battery. When I've run the battery down,
Speaker 5: it's no longer turning the drill or the circular saw
Speaker 5: or the receip saw or the blower or the whatever
Speaker 5: tool that I'm using. Don't put it on the charger
Speaker 5: straight away. I leave it for a little while, let
Speaker 5: it kind of cool down, and then I put it
Speaker 5: on the charger. So and also, look, if you've dropped
Speaker 5: your battery and there's a chip out of the corner,
Speaker 5: or you notice that it gets really hot when you're
Speaker 5: using it, then definitely, definitely, definitely basically get rid of it,
Speaker 5: but in the right way. I followed a I was
Speaker 5: heading up for a meeting a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 5: and I noticed there was a rubbish truck general sort
Speaker 5: of council collections parked up in a little reserve with
Speaker 5: a lot of smoke coming out of the back of it.
Speaker 5: I think there were a couple of fire engines there
Speaker 5: kind of observing at the stage. But obviously the driver
Speaker 5: had noticed that there was smoke coming out of the
Speaker 5: back of the truck, had pulled off to a safe area,
Speaker 5: and then as I went past there later on, that
Speaker 5: obviously tipped the truck up and tripped up the back,
Speaker 5: dropped everything on the ground, and that allowed the fire
Speaker 5: service to find the source of the fire and put
Speaker 5: it out. But you know, that was away from other people,
Speaker 5: it was away from other buildings and so on. But
Speaker 5: these sorts of fires because people basically are lazy, right,
Speaker 5: will inconsiderate probably a combination of the two. And if
Speaker 5: they're lithium ion batteries of all shapes and sizes into
Speaker 5: general refuse where potentially they can be crushed and damage
Speaker 5: and start fires. So I think we do need to
Speaker 5: be just got to be better at how we dispose
Speaker 5: of them. And I have to say what I didn't
Speaker 5: realize listening to Kerries the repeat of Kerri's interview with
Speaker 5: Fens is that vapes. Not that I vape, and I
Speaker 5: know very few people who do, but the vapes have
Speaker 5: liftium ion batteries in them, even the disposable ones, and
Speaker 5: I would say ninety nine percent of those will go
Speaker 5: on the rubbishmen. People are probably not taking those to
Speaker 5: an approved recycler for this safe disposal of those. Right here,
Speaker 5: we should talk about that. Oh eight, one hundred and
Speaker 5: eighty ten eighty is the number to call and Chris,
Speaker 5: good morning to you. It's Chris very well.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a few things on my mind anyway. One
Speaker 6: of them was about your brands down there a bit.
Speaker 6: Do brands do any sort of public displays or sort
Speaker 6: of videos and stuff of what they actually do down there.
Speaker 5: Oh, brands does a massive amount of public work, right,
Speaker 5: So essentially all of the reports, all of the appraisals
Speaker 5: are available online. And like, if you're a trade you
Speaker 5: probably get their magazine. So the Brands that Build magazine
Speaker 5: comes out monthly. One of the things I talked about,
Speaker 5: or they mentioned with their comms team yesterday, is that
Speaker 5: they're looking to digitize that as well. So at the moment,
Speaker 5: you can find any article from the brand's library, and
Speaker 5: we're talking thousands of articles now right online. So I
Speaker 5: would just go to search for Brands and Build Magazine
Speaker 5: and you'll find an index of all of their articles.
Speaker 5: And look, I actually use their information a lot, and
Speaker 5: I use it quite a lot for presentations because they've
Speaker 5: got really good summaries of you know, the effectiveness of
Speaker 5: glazing or the benefits of ventilation and so on. So, yes,
Speaker 5: there is a lot of public information. It's basically what
Speaker 5: they do. They're an educator. There are a lab and
Speaker 5: an educator.
Speaker 6: It'll be good to see sort of what goes on
Speaker 6: behind the scenes to get through the conclusions and whatnot
Speaker 6: before the testing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, I'm pretty sure that it won't take you
Speaker 5: too long to find all of that information online. And
Speaker 5: like I say, I regularly if I'm searching for something,
Speaker 5: So if I'm doing a bit of research into I
Speaker 5: don't know the effectiveness of ventilation or the active mold
Speaker 5: or something like that, chances are I'll end up with
Speaker 5: a brand's piece of research.
Speaker 6: Yep, and a few other two other things was on
Speaker 6: my house in Matter and Matamatter was about changing from
Speaker 6: my single glazed windows to a double glazing system, and
Speaker 6: I was thinking about putting in new windows because I've
Speaker 6: got holdersbestos highline on the gables and above in between
Speaker 6: the and above all the windows and between the bricks,
Speaker 6: and looks like the high line goes in behind the
Speaker 6: alven infint of the current windows, and which doesn't really
Speaker 6: make it very waterproof by the look of it.
Speaker 5: I was going to say, that's that's like directive of
Speaker 5: what are in behind the extrusion rather than out over
Speaker 5: the front.
Speaker 6: And it's like it goes in behind the I'm not
Speaker 6: too sure if it just goes into the groove around
Speaker 6: and behind the aluminium fin and then just sort of
Speaker 6: it comes out behind into the brick cavity and then
Speaker 6: down away, I guess. But you can see that there's
Speaker 6: a few little wet spots or you know where the
Speaker 6: plaster boards get in them.
Speaker 5: But I know the windows, you're starting to see some
Speaker 5: some issues.
Speaker 6: There's the seventh that's was built in the late seventies
Speaker 6: or something, so's been there a while, okay, and I
Speaker 6: was sort of wondering.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, look at it makes a lot of
Speaker 5: sense even without seeing it to address that issue. It's
Speaker 5: a it's a surprising methodology in the sense of having
Speaker 5: the cladding sort of directing water and behind the windows.
Speaker 5: Maybe there used to be be of seilant there that's
Speaker 5: that's diminished over time. Look, certainly, you know, I think
Speaker 5: the juries out in terms of we all know that
Speaker 5: double glazing is way more effective. In fact, if you
Speaker 5: get the right combination of double glazing and joinery, you
Speaker 5: can get almost ten times like it's nine point two
Speaker 5: or something like that, almost ten times the thermal performance
Speaker 5: out of a shift from single glaze to double glazed,
Speaker 5: which you know is a considerable saving. Right. We're not
Speaker 5: talking a small increment or saving in terms of energy efficiency, right,
Speaker 5: it is way more energy efficient. So your existing joinery.
Speaker 5: It's aluminium, yes, it's am here, okay. And if it's
Speaker 5: a nineteen seventies house, it's probably getting towards sort of
Speaker 5: end of life in terms of the powder coat on
Speaker 5: the joinery will have diminished, the frames themselves will be
Speaker 5: moving a little bit, the hard ware will be moving.
Speaker 5: So then you've got a couple of options in terms
Speaker 5: of do you opt to stay with aluminium and go
Speaker 5: for double glazing as well. I suppose you could make
Speaker 5: the choice and go All I want to do is
Speaker 5: the double glazing. What you might find is that most
Speaker 5: of those sashes are not suitable for retrofit. So whoever
Speaker 5: does the retrofit will need to make new sashes, and
Speaker 5: whether or not it's the right choice. Let's say to
Speaker 5: make a new sash to fit into an old frame,
Speaker 5: You'll have to do the numbers on that. I'm thinking
Speaker 5: that if you wanted to, and if you were prepared
Speaker 5: to invest in it, you'd pull the old frames out
Speaker 5: with the glazing in them and replace them with new frames.
Speaker 5: Then you've got options there in terms of aluminium joinery
Speaker 5: or uPVC joinery, so you'd want to look at both
Speaker 5: of those. And then I guess, like the asbestos cladding
Speaker 5: that you think you've got on the proper, like if
Speaker 5: you have to cut into it or anything like that,
Speaker 5: you'd have to be super cautious around that. And I
Speaker 5: think if you were having to cut into it, you'd
Speaker 5: probably go, this is my opportunity to remove it. But
Speaker 5: then that needs to be done by a licensed practitioner,
Speaker 5: let's say, not an LBP necessary, but someone who has
Speaker 5: a license and asbestos removal, and typically part of their
Speaker 5: process is that they do the work and then it's
Speaker 5: independently audited by an inspector who comes along make sure
Speaker 5: that the ground. You know that there's no contamination of
Speaker 5: the ground, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So you know,
Speaker 5: what you're proposing is kind of going to be quite
Speaker 5: a bit of work.
Speaker 6: Oh, it's interesting that they're come along and audited it,
Speaker 6: and yeah.
Speaker 5: But the auditing, you can kind of see the logic
Speaker 5: to the auditing, because you know, the concern is, let's
Speaker 5: say you get a crew in and maybe they haven't
Speaker 5: done a particularly good job and they've inadvertently contaminated other areas.
Speaker 5: So you know, as the homeowner, you want to be
Speaker 5: confident that when you go outside or even within your house,
Speaker 5: that they haven't inadvertently contaminated the house. And I have
Speaker 5: heard a couple of stories where people have undertaken asbestos removal,
Speaker 5: in some cases without knowing that the material was asbestos
Speaker 5: will contained asbestos ACM, and then suddenly they've been made aware,
Speaker 5: They get someone into test and they find that the
Speaker 5: removal work has in fact contaminated large areas than just
Speaker 5: the work area. So, okay, look, it's I suppose it
Speaker 5: sounds like it's gone from what might have been a
Speaker 5: quite small job. I've got to sort out my windows too.
Speaker 5: Now I am going to sort out my windows, which
Speaker 5: has got the benefit of being able to add double glazing.
Speaker 5: But now you've got work to do, you know, removing
Speaker 5: sections of cladding and replacing that with something that's that's
Speaker 5: more updated.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's fine. I wanted to do that anyway, get
Speaker 6: rid of the asbestos. But I was just wandering to
Speaker 6: see if I should use BBC or whether I use
Speaker 6: the new centrifixed system which sort of pushes the window
Speaker 6: frame back in line with the timber.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's one of the features of the uPVC
Speaker 5: as well. Typically, so I've started to do a little
Speaker 5: bit of work with a company called Stark so s
Speaker 5: T a r K. And you know, one of in fact,
Speaker 5: I was looking at a model the other day. You know,
Speaker 5: one of the things that unfortunately we've done kind of
Speaker 5: as a result of having moving from having direct fixed
Speaker 5: cladding to having cladding on cavities is that we ended
Speaker 5: up sort of pushing our windows out, and as we've
Speaker 5: moved to having double glazing, we end up with all
Speaker 5: of the insulation properties of the double blazing forty to
Speaker 5: fifty millimeters out from our framing line, which is where
Speaker 5: all of our insulation is for our wall insulation, and
Speaker 5: that gap all the way around the perimeter of the
Speaker 5: window obviously is almost impossible to insulate. It's very, very
Speaker 5: difficult to insulate that. So the whole move to going,
Speaker 5: let's bring our glazing back in line with the building line,
Speaker 5: so the actual framing and the insulation that goes in it.
Speaker 5: That's a really like it seems like a simple fix.
Speaker 5: It's not always a simple fix, but it makes a
Speaker 5: radical difference to the actual thermal performance of the entire envelope.
Speaker 5: So if you imagine the wall, you know, if you've
Speaker 5: got your windows hanging out from your building line, you've
Speaker 5: got that gap all the way around. So yeah, you've
Speaker 5: put the double glazing in, but the overall effectiveness of
Speaker 5: that wall in terms of its ability to keep you warm,
Speaker 5: is much diminished. So if you again have a look
Speaker 5: at the Stark website, there's recess fitting is really easily
Speaker 5: done on there. You bring the window in and you
Speaker 5: line up that and then it's easy err to insulate
Speaker 5: around the perimeter as well. And I actually saw that
Speaker 5: on a job, a big retrofit job. So nineteen fifty's
Speaker 5: house that the owners have committed themselves to energy efficiency,
Speaker 5: they've taken out all of their old in fact, timber
Speaker 5: joiner excuse me, single glazed, took that out, replaced it
Speaker 5: with the new uPVC joinery, set it back in line,
Speaker 5: well sealed, well insulated around the perimeter. It'll be a
Speaker 5: radically different house to live in the future.
Speaker 6: And then and then can they solve the brick cavity with.
Speaker 5: It's just a flashing hotaiel to bring it out.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so they can do that relatively easy on them,
Speaker 6: retrofit in between the bricks.
Speaker 5: Certainly with this in particularly the Stark system there is
Speaker 5: a flashing suite that goes with it that makes it
Speaker 5: easier to do recess fitting.
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, very good, so check it. Very good.
Speaker 5: Thank you all the very best. You're nice to chat
Speaker 5: and good luck with that project.
Speaker 6: Yep, we'll have a great show and a great talk
Speaker 6: with Chris.
Speaker 5: You're looking forward to it. Thanks mate, all the best,
Speaker 5: Take care. Chris got a couple of really good text
Speaker 5: messages that are coming through as well. Remember once Chris Pink,
Speaker 5: who was the Minister for Building Construction is with us,
Speaker 5: I'm happy to sort of for you to fire through
Speaker 5: questions if there's any particular part of the changes that
Speaker 5: have been proposed that you would like to get, you know,
Speaker 5: to try and be as specific as we can be.
Speaker 5: It was one of the interesting things and sort of
Speaker 5: I spent a bit of time during the week trying
Speaker 5: to look through all of the proposed changes, read press releases,
Speaker 5: and drill down into the detail, because in the end,
Speaker 5: the devil is always in the detail, right, How is
Speaker 5: this actually going to work, which part of which legislation
Speaker 5: works with other pieces of legislation, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 5: So if you're interested in it, and we should be
Speaker 5: because it's going to change our built environment. You know,
Speaker 5: try and be as specific as you can with your
Speaker 5: text questions. Right, the lines are open eight hundred eighty
Speaker 5: ten eighty. We want to talk buildings retro fit, we
Speaker 5: want to talk double glazing, we want to talk the
Speaker 5: benefits of Actually this was I'll take a break. I
Speaker 5: had when I was down at Brands. They had what
Speaker 5: looked like a fairly typical, not particularly high standard, you know,
Speaker 5: one hundred and twenty square meter fiber cment board, old
Speaker 5: aluminium jeweery, you know, the sort of typical house that
Speaker 5: you'd see in an average subdivision from forty or fifty
Speaker 5: years ago. And then they were looking at how that
Speaker 5: performs and what they can do to make it a
Speaker 5: better house. And it was full size house was great. Anyway,
Speaker 5: we'll talk a little bit more about that after the break.
Speaker 5: If you'd like to join us, The lines are open.
Speaker 5: The number two call is eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 1: Helping you get those DIY projects done right. The resident
Speaker 1: builder with Peta Wolfcare call, Oh, eight hundred eighty Youth
Speaker 1: talksb right.
Speaker 5: Your Own News Talks b and ah. They've turned the
Speaker 5: clock off. That's not terribly helpful. I might have to
Speaker 5: sort that out, which leaves me looking around for the time,
Speaker 5: which is six forty three, So that's time for you
Speaker 5: to call, oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, if
Speaker 5: you've got a building question, whether it's sort of that
Speaker 5: that larger scale like what Chris is contemplating of hey,
Speaker 5: joinery has probably reached the end of its serviceable life.
Speaker 5: Obviously in his case it's older aluminium joinery which has
Speaker 5: served him well and probably being quite durable, but probably
Speaker 5: reaching end of life. It's got single glazed and it's
Speaker 5: it's an opportunity to upgrade the date the glazing from
Speaker 5: single glaze to double glaze, and then how it fits
Speaker 5: in it's into breckwork, which is a little sort of
Speaker 5: challenging but sort of not at the same time, and
Speaker 5: then issues with some old building materials around as well,
Speaker 5: which is you know, most likely containing asbestos. So we've
Speaker 5: talked about asbestos a fair amount, and I just want
Speaker 5: to emphasize again but in most cases, left inert and
Speaker 5: on its own, the risk to health is realistically quite low.
Speaker 5: Where the risk occurs is when people don't realize that
Speaker 5: it is asbestos and start you know, using a whole
Speaker 5: saw for example, to cut in a down light or
Speaker 5: add a vent for extraction or something like that. Or
Speaker 5: it starts to de cray and people, you know, start
Speaker 5: breaking pieces off and the fibers become friable, they become airborne,
Speaker 5: and then that's where the potential exposure and the long
Speaker 5: term health damage can occur from there. But you know,
Speaker 5: inert and on its own, it's actually well, it's low risk.
Speaker 5: Let's say that's probably the best way to describe it.
Speaker 5: We'll talk about the house in just a moment. Quick
Speaker 5: text from someone who said, hey, look we're in the
Speaker 5: process of clearing out thirty years of assorted wood from
Speaker 5: underneath the house. I can relate to that. Where is
Speaker 5: the best cheapest place to get rid of it? On
Speaker 5: the north shore? I presume you mean the north shore
Speaker 5: of Auckland. The tip Now this is their words, not mine.
Speaker 5: The tip charge is a fortune to dispose of it,
Speaker 5: and even more to dump it on their woodpile versus
Speaker 5: the general waste exclamation mark from Tony. Yes, tip fees
Speaker 5: are expensive and a lot of that is government increasing
Speaker 5: the waste levee that applies to everyone that brings waste
Speaker 5: into the large landfill sites, and I would imagine part
Speaker 5: of the reason that that waste levee keeps going up
Speaker 5: is because we want to dissuade people from just sending
Speaker 5: everything to landfill, so diversion is key. Hence, I assume
Speaker 5: your reference to a wood pile versus general waste. I
Speaker 5: didn't realize that they would charge you wherever you've been
Speaker 5: to charge more to put it on the woodpile. If
Speaker 5: you feel like a drive down to Devenport, the Resource
Speaker 5: Recovery Center in Devonport, or Resource Recovery Devenport, the Community
Speaker 5: Recycling center there, we'll certainly take your timber. You'll pay
Speaker 5: a fee for it going over the waybridge, but if
Speaker 5: it goes into the timber pile, we certainly I don't
Speaker 5: believe I could check, but I don't believe that we
Speaker 5: charge you more for timber than we would for general waste.
Speaker 5: In fact, if anything, would probably do it the other
Speaker 5: way around. If it's material that can be recycled and
Speaker 5: diverted generally that's at a slightly lower rate. So come
Speaker 5: on down to Devenport, bring us your timber, particularly if
Speaker 5: you've sorted it out, which is great because I think
Speaker 5: we really want to encourage people to do that. You know,
Speaker 5: if you're going to I suppose going to landfill doesn't
Speaker 5: make any difference. But what we've got to do is
Speaker 5: get people not to just think about taking everything to landfill.
Speaker 5: If you're tidying up around the house, think about what
Speaker 5: can be diverted. And then this my own little campaign,
Speaker 5: and we're going to be promoting this at the center soon.
Speaker 5: Is you know, when you arrive at the transfer station,
Speaker 5: if they've got diversion available, and by that I mean
Speaker 5: somewhere for green waste, somewhere for hard fill, somewhere for metal,
Speaker 5: somewhere for timber, somewhere for plastics and polystyrenes and all
Speaker 5: of these things. Pipework, you know, PBC pipework. All of
Speaker 5: these things now are able to be able to either
Speaker 5: be diverted or recycled. So when you arrive, I want
Speaker 5: to encourage people to go on your trailer or in
Speaker 5: the back of the vehicle, have those all in the
Speaker 5: areas that you know collected, right, So put your timber
Speaker 5: on one side, put your hard full on the other side,
Speaker 5: put your green waste in a couple of bags, so
Speaker 5: that when you arrive at the center. You can do
Speaker 5: the diversion a lot easier, RIGHTO. I'm on the ramp
Speaker 5: this morning. Oh eight hundred and eighty, ten eighty. We'll
Speaker 5: talk to DEBI after the break.
Speaker 1: God was but maybe called Pete first vide or gave
Speaker 1: the resident builder news talks.
Speaker 7: They'd be.
Speaker 5: Right ee my turn. Oh eight hundred eighty Debbie, A
Speaker 5: very good morning to you. And I won't forget to
Speaker 5: answer a couple of texts about this disposal of timber
Speaker 5: as well, so we'll come to that in the moment.
Speaker 5: But Debbie, good morning to you.
Speaker 8: Good morning.
Speaker 4: How are you very well?
Speaker 5: Thanks?
Speaker 8: That's good. Hey, I just put your opinion on a
Speaker 8: liquid membrane for your growth. Have you heard anything about
Speaker 8: companies that are offering the water press membrane?
Speaker 5: Yes, yep, yep. I mean there's there's like there's a
Speaker 5: number of different types of products and for different applications.
Speaker 5: So what's the intent of what you might be wanting
Speaker 5: to use that for?
Speaker 8: Well, originally they contact them. I don't know whether you're
Speaker 8: allowed to name companies on here, are you or not.
Speaker 5: I think let's let's just leave it alone for now
Speaker 5: and then just talk generally let's say, okay, cool.
Speaker 8: Like I just don't want to. I want to know
Speaker 8: also whether this is a company that I can trust,
Speaker 8: also because there's quite a few out there, and i
Speaker 8: have read some reviews in this company and I'm not
Speaker 8: sure whether I should put my money in it or
Speaker 8: not that anyway, what I'm trying to achieve is our
Speaker 8: roof and is painting, and we probably needs rescrewing as well.
Speaker 8: We're not quite sure. We think ruth is fine, but
Speaker 8: the proposal I got, the quote I got from them
Speaker 8: was a lot cheaper than actually physically getting someone up
Speaker 8: there to paint it. And they just spray a membrane
Speaker 8: with a tinted color in it. So it's all painted
Speaker 8: and protected for ten years, right, And it's a lot
Speaker 8: getting it painted, Yeah, which.
Speaker 5: Is interesting given that you know, I mean, painting is
Speaker 5: basically the same process, isn't it?
Speaker 8: So look, I guess sorry, they put a polyrisone corect
Speaker 8: liquid membrane on it.
Speaker 5: Right, yep? Okay, what type of roof is it?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 5: Long run of some description?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just ten yeah roughly how old?
Speaker 8: Oh gosh, the house is built in this sixties?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Okay, all right, so I mean, you know, like in general,
Speaker 5: typically roofs have a bit of a lifespan. Now I've
Speaker 5: pulled off roofs that have been way beyond their lifespan
Speaker 5: in the sense of you know, they there's holes in
Speaker 5: them and the fixings are started to decay and then
Speaker 5: so on, and then they're probably largeted thirty years longer
Speaker 5: than their intended lifespan and so on. But something in
Speaker 5: the nineteen sixties, if it's in reasonable condition, you could
Speaker 5: extend its life a little bit, but in the end,
Speaker 5: the iron will continue to deteriorate at a certain rate. Right,
Speaker 5: So I think, you know, I'd be looking at it
Speaker 5: going no matter what I do, is the iron eventually
Speaker 5: going to reach the end of its life, in which
Speaker 5: case anything that I do is perhaps going to delay
Speaker 5: that a little bit, but it's not going to extend
Speaker 5: its life indefinitely. So I think, you know, getting someone
Speaker 5: on site to look at it physically and give you
Speaker 5: a sort of an independent assessment would be a really
Speaker 5: good idea. My sort of advice around having people do
Speaker 5: roofing workers that you choose someone who's a member of
Speaker 5: the Roofing Association of New Zealand. So if you just
Speaker 5: go and search for Roofing Association of New Zealand. They've
Speaker 5: got an online obviously, they're online, and then you can
Speaker 5: search for contractors that are part of the Roofing Association
Speaker 5: of New Zealand. And I think, and I've said this
Speaker 5: as a general comment about all sort of trade bodies,
Speaker 5: that if people have taken the time to commit themselves
Speaker 5: to an association, it typically means that they're serious about
Speaker 5: their work. So I would sort of encourage you to
Speaker 5: use someone who's a member of the Roofing Association of
Speaker 5: New Zealand. It would be.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I might have to do a bit of research
Speaker 8: they are. What are your thoughts on this liquid membrane?
Speaker 8: Is there any different than painting? Is it?
Speaker 5: It is different than painting? Yeah, it is different than painting.
Speaker 5: And I think, like with all things, you've got to
Speaker 5: be cautious around offering up guarantees and warranties in that way,
Speaker 5: you know, but there is also a place for it.
Speaker 5: And just recently, like within the last two weeks, I
Speaker 5: applied a membrane coating over the top of an old
Speaker 5: existing roof. But it was relatively small area on a
Speaker 5: flat roof that I needed to just extend the life
Speaker 5: of so I think in that sense, I made a
Speaker 5: simple decision that I would use a particular product for that. Debbie,
Speaker 5: I'm going to have to go for the news, sport
Speaker 5: and weather. We'll be back straight after that to keep taking.
Speaker 1: Your calls doing of the house, sorting the garden, asked
Speaker 1: Pete for a hand. The Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcab
Speaker 1: called eight News TALKSB.
Speaker 5: Write your own news TALKSB. If you've got a question
Speaker 5: of a building nature, I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 5: Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number
Speaker 5: to call? Good morning. My name's Peak wolf Camp. This
Speaker 5: is the Resident Builder on Sunday show, and we're talking
Speaker 5: all things building construction. Sort of a slight variation to
Speaker 5: the show today is that we have the opportunity to
Speaker 5: spend some time. I have to say in actually, I
Speaker 5: think it's this week marks eleven years of doing the show.
Speaker 5: I was trying to think about it last night, thinking
Speaker 5: it's about like five hundred and fifty shows. I reckon thereabouts.
Speaker 5: So thank you for your patience while I still stuff
Speaker 5: things up after trying to do this five hundred and
Speaker 5: fifty times, and I still crash into the news. I
Speaker 5: need to work on that anyway. I think in all
Speaker 5: of that time, while I've done a couple of interviews
Speaker 5: with various government ministers, first time that any of them
Speaker 5: have sort of said, ah, I'll come to the studio.
Speaker 5: So Chris Pink, we'll be in the studio from around
Speaker 5: seven thirty this morning and we'll stretch that out. We'll
Speaker 5: take that right through to jumping in with through climb
Speaker 5: past at eight thirty, so plenty of time. If you've
Speaker 5: got some texts that you'd like to fire to the minister,
Speaker 5: by all means send those through as well, and there
Speaker 5: might be an opportunity for some phone calls as well.
Speaker 5: But right now we'll continue to talk about all things
Speaker 5: building and construction. I just wanted to just go back
Speaker 5: to the text before the break as well, around the
Speaker 5: timber and disposal of timber. It was one of the
Speaker 5: discussions I had with one of the team at Brands
Speaker 5: when I was down there on Friday, because they have
Speaker 5: actually this is quite cool. They've developed, through the Rebrie system,
Speaker 5: a list of all of the recycling centers so you
Speaker 5: can search right across the country and go I've got X.
Speaker 5: You know timber, concrete, hardfill, metal, PBC, pipe, batteries that
Speaker 5: I want to dispose of in a responsible manner. And
Speaker 5: then by location, it will tell you who is available
Speaker 5: to take that material. So it might be like specialist
Speaker 5: recyclers that only take I met a guy on Wellington
Speaker 5: yes today, who does you know battery recycling out of
Speaker 5: electronic devices? So okay, you've got an old phone or
Speaker 5: an old laptop, you want to dispose of it responsibly,
Speaker 5: you can take it to that particular charity that does
Speaker 5: the recycling. We used to have Abilities group in Auckland.
Speaker 5: Undoubtedly they'll come back. Some local transfer stations will accept
Speaker 5: certain types of material and others. You can find all
Speaker 5: of that now on a brand new website. So that's
Speaker 5: pretty cool. Just with regard to getting in the sense
Speaker 5: disposing of leftover building materials, as in thirty years of
Speaker 5: timber undneath the house, I don't quite have thirty years
Speaker 5: of timber, but I'm getting up to twenty nine years
Speaker 5: of timber stored underneath my house. I look at that,
Speaker 5: and every now and then I go and fossic around
Speaker 5: underneath the house, and I go, do I really need
Speaker 5: that piece of architrave? That little profile that I had
Speaker 5: made fifteen years ago. Do I need to hang on
Speaker 5: to that? Do I really need to keep that piece
Speaker 5: of sacred carity that I've been hanging on to for
Speaker 5: thirty years? That all it's doing now is providing a
Speaker 5: home for borer. So I get exactly where you're coming from.
Speaker 5: Don't make a lot of progress in getting through it.
Speaker 5: And then the moment where you go underneath the house
Speaker 5: and you fossic around, you find just that piece of
Speaker 5: timber that you needed, or more likely you decide that
Speaker 5: you're going to have a big tidy up, You get
Speaker 5: rid of that piece of timber, and then a week
Speaker 5: later you'll need it. In the same way, I tipped
Speaker 5: out a box of assorted hardware and screws and but
Speaker 5: some pieces.
Speaker 4: A little while ago.
Speaker 5: Sure as eggs are eggs, a week later I needed
Speaker 5: that particular screw or washer or fasten or fixing or
Speaker 5: clip or something like that, Which is just me justifying
Speaker 5: to myself that you shouldn't throw anything out, but I
Speaker 5: need to clear up some space. So thirty years of
Speaker 5: timber underneath the house, where do you take it? Find
Speaker 5: a local recycling center who will be able to divert
Speaker 5: that from landfill, and there are a couple of companies
Speaker 5: out there who will also offer that diversion drop a bin,
Speaker 5: so Green Gorilla for example, will do that. Interestingly enough,
Speaker 5: the Devonport Recycling Center now has a been service as well.
Speaker 5: So this I mentioned that because this particular person was
Speaker 5: on the shore and was looking north shore of Auckland right.
Speaker 5: Nineteen eighties house with original single glazed aluminium jowinery and
Speaker 5: remove interior frames. Exterior is five US cement board. We're
Speaker 5: keen to change the color of the aluminium and upgrade
Speaker 5: to double glazing, but I like to keep the remoove
Speaker 5: frames inside. What options do we have? Nineteen eighties single
Speaker 5: glazed aluminium jewinery. You can retrofit double glazing typically to that.
Speaker 5: In some cases they may need to make a new sash,
Speaker 5: in which case it will be a slightly different color,
Speaker 5: just allowing for age to the frame that it might
Speaker 5: sit into, in which case you could go ahead do
Speaker 5: the upgrade, upgrade the joinery or the sashes in some
Speaker 5: cases with new beads and maybe a new actual sash,
Speaker 5: get the double glazing in and then have the whole
Speaker 5: lot brought together by then recoating all of your existing
Speaker 5: aluminium frames, and I'd probably go to someone like Nano
Speaker 5: Clear for that as well, and that'll sort of bring
Speaker 5: everything together, I think, which is a real advantage in there.
Speaker 5: Or your other option is to pull the entire frame
Speaker 5: out and go from there. Hey, Pete, we built one
Speaker 5: hundred and forty square meter shed mentions a brand which
Speaker 5: is about five meters to the apex of the ridge.
Speaker 5: Four years ago they supplied a synthetic white underlay for
Speaker 5: the roof. Can't remember the brand. It's now started to
Speaker 5: disintegrate and rip. Do you know the reason for this?
Speaker 5: And have any people listening had the same problem? What
Speaker 5: I think happens quite a lot, and it sounds odd,
Speaker 5: and I'm sure there's very good reason for it. So,
Speaker 5: for example, if you're doing a car port that is
Speaker 5: open as in it doesn't have any sites, which is
Speaker 5: by its nature the definition of a car port, typically
Speaker 5: we don't put a roofing una underneath it because they
Speaker 5: tend to deteriorate. And if you've done a large shed
Speaker 5: with a roofing underlay, it will probably deteriorate as well,
Speaker 5: and that's why we don't typically tend to do it.
Speaker 5: In terms of fixing it, well, you can try and
Speaker 5: patch it from underneath, but it won't be terribly successful realistically.
Speaker 5: It's kind of like pull the roof off, remove the paper,
Speaker 5: or get another type of roofing underlay that is okay
Speaker 5: to be exposed to the elements. Because think about most
Speaker 5: instances of putting a roofing underlay onto a building. It's
Speaker 5: then in an enclosed space, right, it's in your attic. Effectively,
Speaker 5: it's not exposed to the elements. A shed is, and
Speaker 5: that's very much the problem with that open line. Talk
Speaker 5: back on all things building and construction. Mike, A very
Speaker 5: good morning to you.
Speaker 7: Can I pete Healthy Holmes question. Yeah, picturey eight late
Speaker 7: eighteen hundreds of villa. It was once a converted into
Speaker 7: two flats. Now it has a kitchen that's sort of
Speaker 7: in the middle of the building. And what do we
Speaker 7: do if do we need to do anything for healthy homes?
Speaker 7: I mean the closest exterior wall is about two point
Speaker 7: five meters away from the kitchen.
Speaker 5: So the part of the healthy Homes legislation that would
Speaker 5: impact there is extraction from the kitchen area.
Speaker 7: Extraction. I think you're supposed to have an open window, aren't.
Speaker 5: You no opening window? I don't think for healthy home
Speaker 5: standards will qualify it needs to be extraction. Interestingly enough,
Speaker 5: that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a range hood.
Speaker 5: So again, in your situation, I'm thinking if the kitchen
Speaker 5: is located kind of in the center of the house
Speaker 5: and the actual cooking top is the range or the
Speaker 5: hobs are not necessarily located near an exterior wall, it
Speaker 5: can be a little bit challenging going from there to
Speaker 5: the exterior. So in that instance, there, I think you
Speaker 5: would get Healthy Home certification or compliance if you were
Speaker 5: to install install simply a through wall extraction in that area. Now,
Speaker 5: and that's pretty straightforward, right, Obviously you've got to get
Speaker 5: power to that location. But you know, if you find
Speaker 5: that you put it in a wall reasonably close to
Speaker 5: an existing power point, you might be able to divert
Speaker 5: or get a cable down to there to then power
Speaker 5: up the extraction. So a through wall kit in the
Speaker 5: kitchen area will be enough to satisfy Healthy Home standards.
Speaker 7: But like we're in the middle of a house, we're
Speaker 7: not anywhere near an exterior.
Speaker 5: Wall, right, what about is it two storied?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 7: But if we wanted to go up through the roof,
Speaker 7: it would mean that like if you used a range,
Speaker 7: but you'd be going up three meters to get it
Speaker 7: through the roof.
Speaker 5: Yes, which is challenging but not impossible. I mean, I
Speaker 5: don't think it's ideal, but there are through roofkits or
Speaker 5: more importantly, you could go from the you could go
Speaker 5: from if you can get into the roof right, then
Speaker 5: you can travel through the roof space and out to
Speaker 5: the safite.
Speaker 7: For example, how powerful is a fan to go that far?
Speaker 5: What I would do in that instance is typically there
Speaker 5: there is actually calculations for the type of ducting you
Speaker 5: can use and the size of the fan that you need.
Speaker 5: So you would probably need to go to smooth ducting,
Speaker 5: so a rigid ducting system rather than the flexible stuff.
Speaker 5: And what you might end up doing is putting an
Speaker 5: inline fan or possibly even two fans, so you might
Speaker 5: have one that's close to the cooking area. And then
Speaker 5: if you've got a particularly long run, so anything over
Speaker 5: about six meters is not really going to work right, okay,
Speaker 5: but anything under six meters then you need to account
Speaker 5: for the type of material that you want that air
Speaker 5: to go through. So rigiducting rather than flexible. There's going
Speaker 5: to be the answer there. It's solvable. What it might
Speaker 5: mean is that you need to hunt around and find
Speaker 5: like someone who does extraction as a professional job, right not,
Speaker 5: just have a go day and they'll be able to
Speaker 5: determine the flow. And I'll tell you what's really quite
Speaker 5: interesting is if you are going to get a professional
Speaker 5: to do the extraction for you, and like I say,
Speaker 5: there are people who is this is what they do,
Speaker 5: this is the area of expertise. You can also test it.
Speaker 5: So once it's been installed, you know, it'll say it'll
Speaker 5: have a flow rate of x cubic meters per minute
Speaker 5: or something like that, which is measurable at the outlet.
Speaker 5: So you install the system and then you can test
Speaker 5: it with an animometer, which basically measures wind speed at
Speaker 5: the outlet. And that's quite interesting to do as well.
Speaker 5: And I've even done it sort of slightly more ad
Speaker 5: hoc than that, where I bought some smoke matches the
Speaker 5: other day, so specifically designed for testing airflow or for
Speaker 5: looking for drafts and that sort of thing. So installed
Speaker 5: some extraction lit the smoke match where the extraction is
Speaker 5: designed to start sucking from and then see if it
Speaker 5: comes out my vent at the other side. Oh okay, yeah,
Speaker 5: so there are ways of testing it. You know, this
Speaker 5: stuff is science, right, you know. And so people tend
Speaker 5: to install extraction and they crush it and they send
Speaker 5: it through some sort of Gandalf's Quest for Middle Earth
Speaker 5: or something like that goes up and down and around
Speaker 5: and back, and they squish it a little bit and
Speaker 5: then they poke it outside and hope that air actually
Speaker 5: gets out of the end. That's not how extrac works, right,
Speaker 5: you know, straight runs, smooth runs, that's what's going to
Speaker 5: give you a really good result.
Speaker 7: So I just want to step back. It doesn't have
Speaker 7: to be a range should It can just be a
Speaker 7: fan to get the area out of there.
Speaker 5: In terms of compliance with the Healthy Home regulation. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you're right, it just needs to be extraction from that space.
Speaker 5: Doesn't have to be a range hood.
Speaker 7: Okay, all right, hopefully that helps.
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 7: Okay, great, all.
Speaker 5: The very best. You might take care of you and
Speaker 5: Newstalk ce B. If you've got a question of a building,
Speaker 5: Nature will take your calls. Eight hundred and eighty ten
Speaker 5: eighty is that number to call, feel through, to text
Speaker 5: them through as well, quick text before the break. We've
Speaker 5: got a nineteen eighties house with a steep concrete tile roof.
Speaker 5: We're going to improve the insallation. I wonder if it's
Speaker 5: a good idea to put some sort of barrier behind
Speaker 5: the concrete tiles right now. If they leaked, the water
Speaker 5: would go onto the insulation. In terms of code compl
Speaker 5: clients the like. If it's a steep concrete tile roof,
Speaker 5: even today, it doesn't require a membrane underneath it. So
Speaker 5: concrete roofs over I think it's fifteen degrees don't have
Speaker 5: a requirement for a vapor barrier or a roofing underlay
Speaker 5: at all. Would there be an advantage to putting one on, Yes,
Speaker 5: there probably is, But in order to do that, you'd
Speaker 5: need to take the tiles off as well as taking
Speaker 5: the batons off in order to have a continuous layer
Speaker 5: of a roofing underlay, and chances are you not going
Speaker 5: to do that. Is there an advantage to going in
Speaker 5: and stapling it to the underside of the batons that
Speaker 5: support the roof, Yes, you can do it. It's it
Speaker 5: will give you a benefit, but of course there will
Speaker 5: still be gaps and so on, and water might it's
Speaker 5: actually going to be very little water that's underneath those
Speaker 5: roof tiles. There are more extensive remedial situation remedial of
Speaker 5: this is that you can do as well in terms of,
Speaker 5: you know, taking all of that off, maybe sheathing the
Speaker 5: roof and then putting the concrete tiles back on. We
Speaker 5: can discuss that as well. If you want to give
Speaker 5: me a call, oh eight hundred and eighty teen eighty
Speaker 5: back after the break with Howard.
Speaker 1: Whether you're paty with ceiling, fixing with fits or wondering
Speaker 1: how to fix that hole in the wall, give Peter
Speaker 1: wolf Caper call on.
Speaker 4: Eighty the resident builder on Youth dogs'd be you and
Speaker 4: New Talks.
Speaker 5: It'd be coming up twenty four minutes after seven and
Speaker 5: Howard talk to me about your roof.
Speaker 9: Oh look, just a quickie. You'll have to give me
Speaker 9: the first part of the show. But just listening to
Speaker 9: you're talking about with it lining paper in the older
Speaker 9: expior sheds and garages. I've got one of those wonderful
Speaker 9: probably built late eighties early nineties metal double garages, and
Speaker 9: the lining paper on the roof is literally to the
Speaker 9: point of disintegration. It's one of the ones, you know,
Speaker 9: the old yellow strings of trying to.
Speaker 4: Hold it.
Speaker 9: Wine. Yeah, the query is really the only way either
Speaker 9: the scene of doing it is to completely remove the
Speaker 9: roof and try and do the runs again. Is it
Speaker 9: actually essential to even have in there? Or am I
Speaker 9: making myself a monster job? Apologize if you've already covered this.
Speaker 4: No, no, no.
Speaker 5: I think it's a really good question. And it is
Speaker 5: a little bit unusual to see roofing underlay decay in
Speaker 5: an enclosed space, like it's not uncommon to see it.
Speaker 5: Let's say, you know, with an exposed car port, right
Speaker 5: roofing underlays, particularly older ones. I think that new roofing underlays,
Speaker 5: if you look at the technology that goes into their manufacture,
Speaker 5: probably will be more durable, and in fact, you might
Speaker 5: be able to find a very specific type of roofing
Speaker 5: underlay that's designed for exposure, let's say. But in terms
Speaker 5: of the usefulness of it, yes, it does make a
Speaker 5: significant difference to have roofing underlay under metal roofing. So
Speaker 5: typically what happens is you will get condensation underneath, you know,
Speaker 5: whether it's any type of long run that sort of thing,
Speaker 5: no matter what the profile, and realistically almost no matter
Speaker 5: what the pitch is. And so the idea of the
Speaker 5: roofing underlay is that it collects that condensation that can
Speaker 5: form on the underside of the iron and it directs
Speaker 5: it down. So the roofing underlay should extend out over
Speaker 5: the facierboard, and ideally it should hang out just far
Speaker 5: enough so that it drops any condensate into the spouting.
Speaker 5: You know, if it doesn't quite get to the spouting,
Speaker 5: at least it's getting outside of the building envelope. So
Speaker 5: in urine instance, I mean, look, the best practice would
Speaker 5: be take the roof off, replace the roofing underlay, put
Speaker 5: the roof back on. And if it's a small garage,
Speaker 5: and if the roof, you know, if the fixings with
Speaker 5: screws right, I'd say that would be what I would do,
Speaker 5: is back the screw out, take the sheet off, put
Speaker 5: the building paper on. You could carefully work your way
Speaker 5: across the roof in sections, running you know, from the
Speaker 5: ridge line down to the gutter line, that sort of thing.
Speaker 5: If it's nails, it's a little trickier because you can
Speaker 5: potentially cause damage to the roofing iron when you take
Speaker 5: the nails out, but still durable and again a garage,
Speaker 5: you know, low risk, probably not terribly high, all of
Speaker 5: those sorts of things. You could probably safely manage all
Speaker 5: of the risks there and replace the roofing paper. But yes,
Speaker 5: it is doing something. I speak in a sense from
Speaker 5: personal experience. My shed is quite old, nineteen fifties. It's
Speaker 5: got a very flat roof, it's got corrugated on it.
Speaker 5: In winter, my workbench is just it looks like it's
Speaker 5: been raining. Right, So because I no one ever put
Speaker 5: roofing underlay in there, I've delayed doing it because I
Speaker 5: keep thinking I'm going to build myself a brand new garage,
Speaker 5: but I haven't got round to that. So but yeah,
Speaker 5: roofing paper makes a big difference.
Speaker 9: Actually make that that's fine. Not so it's probably been
Speaker 9: up there fifty years at least. I don't not sure
Speaker 9: how it's supposed to last. And there's also in central
Speaker 9: of targets is huge.
Speaker 6: That go with it.
Speaker 9: But yeah, it sounds like the logical thing to do
Speaker 9: is really bite the bullet section bisection. And obviously the
Speaker 9: paper's always run horizontally sort of overlap in from the top.
Speaker 5: I mean, if if, for example, let's say it's safer
Speaker 5: for you to take a couple of sheets off and
Speaker 5: then replace the building paper, then run it from top
Speaker 5: to bottom, let's say, and just make sure that you've
Speaker 5: got a hunt at least one hundred and fifty. Or
Speaker 5: you could get a roofing underlay that allows you to
Speaker 5: put a tape over it, in which case you do
Speaker 5: the lap and then tape the join so you don't
Speaker 5: get water that tracks underneath on its way down.
Speaker 9: Right, So it's not not essential as to whether or
Speaker 9: not you run it sort of horizontal or vertical.
Speaker 5: Well, horizontal across the sheet allows for the lap to
Speaker 5: ensure that water doesn't track. You know, water is not
Speaker 5: going to go uphill right in most instances. But theoretically,
Speaker 5: if water is traveling down the sheet and all you've
Speaker 5: got is a lap, it could get underneath the sheet
Speaker 5: and still drop into the building. So and that's but look,
Speaker 5: you see plenty of reroofs where they're going vertically, let's say,
Speaker 5: and just I would just make that lap a little
Speaker 5: bit bigger.
Speaker 9: Now, hey, that's fantastic pleasure. That's fine. I think I
Speaker 9: need to make make sure it wait till it's not
Speaker 9: a wendy day and get up there and get cracking,
Speaker 9: but really appreciate you squeezing me in this morning.
Speaker 5: Takes pleasure all the very besty. How I take care
Speaker 5: of your news stalk ceed be open line, well, actually
Speaker 5: open line on any questions that you would like to
Speaker 5: put to the minister. So I'm going to take short break.
Speaker 5: We're going to bring the Minister for Building and Construction,
Speaker 5: Chris Pink into the studio. I'm going to have a
Speaker 5: bit of a chat with him. I've already got a
Speaker 5: long list of questions. If you've got any specific questions
Speaker 5: about a large number of proposals that are out there
Speaker 5: around regulation, self certification, granny flats, changes to h one,
Speaker 5: all of these things we can talk about. We're going
Speaker 5: to take short break. After the break, the Minister Chris
Speaker 5: Pink will join me in the studio.
Speaker 4: Squeaky door, more squeaky floor.
Speaker 1: Get the right advice from Peter Wolfcare, the resident builder
Speaker 1: on News TALKSB.
Speaker 5: I do radio so News Talk SB and this morning
Speaker 5: on the program a little bit of a diversion from
Speaker 5: what we would normally do in the sense that it
Speaker 5: is it's actually genuinely my great pleasure to welcome into
Speaker 5: the studio the Minister for Building and Construction, Chris Pink
Speaker 5: Welcome and thank you very much for joining us well
Speaker 5: in Pepe.
Speaker 10: Thanks very much into all your listeners. I've delighted to
Speaker 10: be here with the Oracles now.
Speaker 5: Yes, look it's a massive portfolio. I know we've had
Speaker 5: a chance to chat at various events and that sort
Speaker 5: of thing, but you know now that we're what not
Speaker 5: quite two years, eighteen months sort of thing feed under
Speaker 5: the desk in general, how are you finding the role,
Speaker 5: what's your engagement with the sector? Just some general comments.
Speaker 10: Yeah, well I really love the role. I think building
Speaker 10: a construction is so important and of course the usual
Speaker 10: stats to real off go to the number of people
Speaker 10: employed contribution to GDP and everyone understands that their importance,
Speaker 10: but particularly actually in a time where people have been
Speaker 10: doing it really tough in the sector. Sure, but if
Speaker 10: you start thinking about the impact that this has on
Speaker 10: people's lives, you know, to have good quality, affordable sustainable
Speaker 10: homes and the implications for kiwis and families and their
Speaker 10: ability to live well in a community. It's just really
Speaker 10: quite a big pressure and responsibility at a straight pleasure too,
Speaker 10: but you realize how stakes, how high the stakes are
Speaker 10: when you start thinking about all that in the big picture.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think sort of, you know, part of
Speaker 5: I suppose what drives me in a sense is that
Speaker 5: you're right. Housing is it the key to almost everything
Speaker 5: you know, housing stability, housing affordability, housing quality, quality in
Speaker 5: terms of its impact on health and so on. So
Speaker 5: already we've got a couple of texts coming in on
Speaker 5: things like healthy home, someone calling it a wrought will.
Speaker 5: We'll deal with that in the moment. What I'd like
Speaker 5: to do is just go through I guess a couple
Speaker 5: of things that have been key innouncements in terms of
Speaker 5: changes that the ministry that you've proposed. So probably the
Speaker 5: one that got the most headlines a little while ago
Speaker 5: is hey, H one might have been too much. So
Speaker 5: there's been a lot of consultation. I've been really really
Speaker 5: impressed at the level of dialogue, like the public discourse
Speaker 5: and the discussion around you know, the proposal was, or
Speaker 5: the comment I think that you made was, hey, look,
Speaker 5: we've been told that we can say fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 5: off the cost of a new build if we step
Speaker 5: back from H one. Changes that came in in November
Speaker 5: of twenty twenty three, there's been some consultation. Where are
Speaker 5: we at with that particular issue right now?
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, I think we're quite close to being able
Speaker 10: to land something in that space. And I say we
Speaker 10: it's actually technically it's mb Ministry of Building, Innovation, Employment,
Speaker 10: which is the relevant government agency in the Chief Executive
Speaker 10: is the person who in that legislation actually gets to
Speaker 10: make the course. So it's not me, but certainly I
Speaker 10: made my view quite clear early on, having heard from
Speaker 10: a large number of builders that huge amount of additional
Speaker 10: cost was being added. But nevertheless, hearing as part of
Speaker 10: that great dialogue that you've mentioned that actually it shouldn't
Speaker 10: be the case that there's such a large amount of
Speaker 10: extra cost, I thought, well, we've got to get to
Speaker 10: the bottom of this, and I think we're pretty close,
Speaker 10: as in literally within a few weeks, maybe a couple
Speaker 10: of months from having an answer to that. And like
Speaker 10: I say, it's not for me to decide, but it
Speaker 10: does seem to me that if we can end up
Speaker 10: with a more nuanced calculation, and actually the methods that
Speaker 10: are known as calculation and modeling already sit within that
Speaker 10: that chapter of the code will probably be more appropriate
Speaker 10: than what's currently there around well, what's known as the
Speaker 10: schedule method, where it's very prescriptive. So if I had
Speaker 10: to make an educated guest, I say, would probably end
Speaker 10: up with more of the calculation modeling and less of
Speaker 10: that prescriptive blunt instrument where by people end up adding
Speaker 10: you know, literally extra layers, including in parts of MW
Speaker 10: Zealand where that's not needed.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Okay, So will, again making an educated guess, will the
Speaker 5: schedule method remain or I wouldn't bet on it. I
Speaker 5: would put my hand up and say we should just
Speaker 5: get rid of it, right, might well be the outcome? Okay,
Speaker 5: all right, that's pretty cool, actually, Okay. The other big
Speaker 5: challenge that you seem to have identified is the whole
Speaker 5: consenting process, how long it takes to get a building
Speaker 5: consent through the complexity, the seemingly disjointedness between various territorial authorities.
Speaker 5: So territorial authorities typically act as a building consent authority,
Speaker 5: but they are now no longer the only ones, so
Speaker 5: we're seeing some movement in that space. I think you've
Speaker 5: been quite strong in terms of saying to councils it's
Speaker 5: taking too long. Have you had pushback from councils.
Speaker 10: Well, I suppose I have. I've had discussions the whole
Speaker 10: way through with councils and also with the building officials
Speaker 10: Institute news. Yes, and they say to me, oh, well,
Speaker 10: you've got to be careful, Chris, because actually the reason
Speaker 10: that it takes a long time is because we've got
Speaker 10: a lot of onerous requirements on us, including the accreditation
Speaker 10: they have every couple of years, the joint in several liability,
Speaker 10: which is to say that you know that the sort
Speaker 10: of democrat hangs over them if something goes wrong with
Speaker 10: an individual building or of course heaven forbid at a
Speaker 10: system level, you know, and cert reference to leaky holmes here,
Speaker 10: then you know, then that's on us in our rate pays.
Speaker 10: And of course they're absolutely right, and it's never been
Speaker 10: my position that we need to be critical in a
Speaker 10: way that's unfair when when it is taking too long
Speaker 10: for people to get consents and there are inconsistencies, that's
Speaker 10: a matter of saying, well, look there's a problem here.
Speaker 10: It's not about sort of ascribing blame except to say
Speaker 10: that the system needs to be reformed. So when we
Speaker 10: have that discussion, it's all very you know, we're in
Speaker 10: violent agreement. Really, I think everyone does need to change.
Speaker 10: We can probably do things better, and there's a couple
Speaker 10: of ways we can look at doing that, which happy
Speaker 10: to get into if you want to on the Sharlot
Speaker 10: terms to where that liability sits.
Speaker 9: For us Dart.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Look, I think that is a really really important discussion
Speaker 5: because it seems to be at the nub of the problem. Right. So,
Speaker 5: as a ratepayer, as a rate payer in Auckland, right,
Speaker 5: and we know that Auckland Council has paid out hundreds
Speaker 5: of millions, possibly billions of dollars in claims for leaky
Speaker 5: buildings because their last man standing to use commpilance. So
Speaker 5: as a ratepayer, I want my counsel to be super
Speaker 5: super cautious around processing building consents. As someone who might
Speaker 5: submit a building consent and wants to start building, I
Speaker 5: want them to do it in twenty days. Right. So
Speaker 5: one of the things that I think has come out
Speaker 5: of this is you've asked them to provide data as
Speaker 5: to how long it takes to process a consent. Again,
Speaker 5: the response from councils have they seen that as sort
Speaker 5: of unnecessary interference or welcome?
Speaker 10: No, they've really welcome to. Honestly, it's been really heartening
Speaker 10: and in fact, just going back to your original question
Speaker 10: about how I've found the role, I've been really impressed
Speaker 10: and grateful how engaging everyone has been, including from the coussels.
Speaker 10: And you know, often I will say things like, you know,
Speaker 10: in the public domain or in a small meeting format,
Speaker 10: that I'd be really keen to know how we can
Speaker 10: have the resources of the system better applied to those
Speaker 10: that actually need more scrutiny, you know, that sort of
Speaker 10: self certification of idea, and councilors will often volunteer to me, Oh,
Speaker 10: we're doing a version of that already, we've got a
Speaker 10: trusted partner program, or you know, this is how we
Speaker 10: sort of differentiate. So actually, some of them are already
Speaker 10: doing the great job. And I think if we can
Speaker 10: take the lessons from the ones that are genuinely doing
Speaker 10: really well in all those kinds of ways and apply
Speaker 10: them across the board, then we'll have the opportunity to
Speaker 10: learn from best practice, but also you know, remove that
Speaker 10: in consistency where people are looking to build across the
Speaker 10: country and getting frustrated because the rules seem to differ,
Speaker 10: or rather the interpretation of the rules seems to differ
Speaker 10: according to which side of a council boundary they happen
Speaker 10: to be building.
Speaker 5: Up, because in the end there's only one building code exactly.
Speaker 10: You're always saying, of course, you're right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, okay, just on the consenting because I think,
Speaker 5: you know, to be fair to councils again, I would
Speaker 5: imagine that some of what they get in terms of
Speaker 5: building consent submissions are actually of poor quality, and it's
Speaker 5: not surprising that they have to ask rofis do you
Speaker 5: see any role for AI in this, Like, you know,
Speaker 5: one of the things that's been talked about as a
Speaker 5: central portal for all building consents to be lodged, would
Speaker 5: there be a role for AI to sort of scan
Speaker 5: consents and find those defects?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think quite possibly. I think I would be
Speaker 10: nervous at this stage mid twenty twenty five, but who knows.
Speaker 10: In a few years even from now, maybe that will
Speaker 10: change about a system where we relied so heavily on
Speaker 10: technology that we were approving on the basis only of AI.
Speaker 10: Now you might have listeners right now who think I'm
Speaker 10: naiven and that actually that technology as possible or ready
Speaker 10: to rely upon. Sure, but I think soon that you
Speaker 10: could do it. In the negative, you could certainly have
Speaker 10: triaging by way of AI where it was identified that
Speaker 10: there was a shortfall. And actually, anecdotally at least often
Speaker 10: counselors will say to me or the reason that we
Speaker 10: reject an application or ask for more information is because
Speaker 10: some of it's just lacking, not even that they're proposing
Speaker 10: something that's not in accordance with the building Code, it's
Speaker 10: just not there. And if that could be done on
Speaker 10: day one, not day nineteen or twenty of an application
Speaker 10: being made, if one will be better off. And of
Speaker 10: course then the piece that goes alongside that is that
Speaker 10: we've also need to have, you know, due regard to
Speaker 10: the consequences for people who do you know, submit poor
Speaker 10: quality applications, because of course that's not doing any favors
Speaker 10: to the rest of the sector who are patiently waiting
Speaker 10: for their own application to be seen, and of course
Speaker 10: again not fair on council to be used as a
Speaker 10: first resort quality assurance. It should be, you know, it
Speaker 10: should be a final check, you know, with all the
Speaker 10: care intention having been applied to the question before that time.
Speaker 5: Okay, So, as a as a builder, I've got my
Speaker 5: building consent, I'm underway with the construction, I ring counsel
Speaker 5: to book and inspection, and it varies from week to week,
Speaker 5: months to month, year to year. A little while ago,
Speaker 5: you could be waiting three weeks for a building inspection.
Speaker 5: One of the announcements that you made was that we
Speaker 5: want to see remote inspections as the default.
Speaker 10: Is that still your thinking, Well, we've consulted on the
Speaker 10: basis that it does take too long in many cases,
Speaker 10: and certainly it's quite variable the amount of time that
Speaker 10: it takes for people to get it an inspection, So
Speaker 10: that was always the aim. It seemed to me that
Speaker 10: with some councils using remote visual inspections really well and
Speaker 10: quite prominently within their systems, but others not at all,
Speaker 10: that seemed to me an obvious opportunity to lift the
Speaker 10: game across the board. However, having consulted on that and
Speaker 10: heard that it would be complicated and are necessarily prescriptive
Speaker 10: to say these are the ones that you must have
Speaker 10: as in person physical and other ones can be so
Speaker 10: where they have a default, and then start thinking about
Speaker 10: when you enable the presumption to be the other way,
Speaker 10: which is you know when you do have to have
Speaker 10: it in person, it did start to feel a bit
Speaker 10: more complicated, and of course the aim of the game
Speaker 10: is to make things easier, not harder. So the idea
Speaker 10: is now. And having risten now to all the councils
Speaker 10: that act as building content authorities, I've said, look, we
Speaker 10: do expect that you have the facility to provide remote
Speaker 10: visual inspections, but in the meantime, we don't care how
Speaker 10: you do it, as long as eighty percent of your
Speaker 10: inspections are conducted within a three working day timeframe of
Speaker 10: that request, So being the timeliness not the methodology, and say, well,
Speaker 10: if we're interested in the end not the means, then
Speaker 10: use that tool, but do it as you feel free,
Speaker 10: as you wish.
Speaker 5: Okay, which seems like a slightly more nuanced and more
Speaker 5: practical solution, doesn't it.
Speaker 10: So, and again grateful for the feedback that that was
Speaker 10: along those lines. So we heard that and have gone
Speaker 10: with the timeframe as opposed to the specific methodology.
Speaker 5: Okay. So again, I'm a builder, I've got my building consent,
Speaker 5: I've answered all the RFIs, I'm ready for the building inspection.
Speaker 5: But in fact, if I'm a trusted builder working on
Speaker 5: simple buildings I might be able to opt into self certification.
Speaker 5: Can you explain how self certification might work?
Speaker 10: Yeah, So self certification is pretty much what it sounds like,
Speaker 10: which is to say, you can say you can certify
Speaker 10: that your work meets the building code or any other
Speaker 10: relevant standards. And at the moment we've got electras and
Speaker 10: gas fitters who are able to do exactly that plumbers
Speaker 10: and train layers meanwhile can't. Although we've announced that we're
Speaker 10: changing that, so that legislation has been drafted as we
Speaker 10: speak that will come through you know, if not this
Speaker 10: year then certainly ahead of the next selection. And then
Speaker 10: in relation to builders, well, there's already a distinction of
Speaker 10: course between licensed building practitioners who can do restricted building
Speaker 10: work and you know anyone who's who's not not being
Speaker 10: able to at least not without the supervision and ultimately
Speaker 10: the sign off. So I've got an element of that already.
Speaker 10: But in terms of self certifying whole buildings or developments
Speaker 10: even at a time, what we've said there is that
Speaker 10: we will identify building entities, you know, companies or in
Speaker 10: the franchise model, by the way, as a bit of
Speaker 10: a challenge when you start thinking about group home boorders, right,
Speaker 10: we can come back to that if you want sure. Overall,
Speaker 10: the philosophy is that for those that are doing a
Speaker 10: large scale of work, have got a good track record
Speaker 10: in terms of quality, you know, lack of complaints in
Speaker 10: difficult in terms of the week that they've already produced,
Speaker 10: got good quality assurances systems in place, would have a
Speaker 10: method by which a customer could say, you know, there's
Speaker 10: been a defect or a problem and it there'd be
Speaker 10: a way to have that resolved. And of course they'd
Speaker 10: have adequate means which is basically deep enough pockets that
Speaker 10: if there is a problem that they could come to
Speaker 10: the party and not leave a shortfall for the poor
Speaker 10: homeowner in the same way that councils currently do. Then
Speaker 10: if all those planets align and subject to ongoing you know,
Speaker 10: order in quality assurance in terms of their ability to
Speaker 10: provide that, then we think that's the right place to
Speaker 10: allow them to get on and build the extra hundreds
Speaker 10: and or even thousands of homes New Zealand that are
Speaker 10: currently treated in the same way single level of blanket
Speaker 10: oversight which we've currently gotten that seems to me not
Speaker 10: the way to get better productivity.
Speaker 5: I mean, to be fair, it sounds like what looked
Speaker 5: like something that would encompass a lot of building in fact,
Speaker 5: will only encompass a very small number of buildings. Because
Speaker 5: you know, I actually did some reading about this during
Speaker 5: the course of the week. So you know, large building
Speaker 5: companies doing numerous simple buildings. So what's your definition or
Speaker 5: what do you see as a simple building?
Speaker 10: Yeah? Well, again, the devil is always in the detail,
Speaker 10: isn't it.
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
Speaker 10: It's really funny having these conversations because if you want
Speaker 10: to bring people along with you, and you want to
Speaker 10: help or give people an opportunity to help and contribute
Speaker 10: by saying this is what it should look like, then
Speaker 10: you have to state the idea and principle and then
Speaker 10: get into the detail as you go along. But of course,
Speaker 10: the minute you talk about even the principle of it,
Speaker 10: people say, oh, yes, but what about the details. So
Speaker 10: I'm really grateful that we do have these conversations, but
Speaker 10: in terms of a simple building. And as you'll be aware,
Speaker 10: and your listeners too, if they're regulars on't tuning into
Speaker 10: your show as they should be, even on a Mother's Day,
Speaker 10: by the way, then they'll know that zis three six
Speaker 10: er four, you know, sets out the standards. It's currently
Speaker 10: being updated, so watch the space. But you know, if
Speaker 10: you can imagine starting with that kind of simple timber
Speaker 10: building and no reason by the way, it couldn't be
Speaker 10: expanded into other building types and materials as could safely
Speaker 10: be done, then you know there'd be a starting point.
Speaker 10: And of course it'll be possible to say, oh, but
Speaker 10: what about these other ones. They should also be regarded
Speaker 10: as safe for self certification, and that may be true,
Speaker 10: but I'd rather be conservative initially in terms of what's
Speaker 10: allowed and who's allowed to do self certification, and if
Speaker 10: it goes well, then think about expanding it. But I
Speaker 10: think it'll be a major win. Even if it's let's say,
Speaker 10: three thousand new homes a year, which you know, if
Speaker 10: that's ten thousand, excuse me, ten percent of the thirty
Speaker 10: thousand building consents currently being issued annually. That's not nothing.
Speaker 10: It's not a silver bullet, but it's not nothing, and
Speaker 10: it's a good place to start if we were then
Speaker 10: to be comfortable to expand the program from there.
Speaker 5: We didn't take a break, but I'd like to focus
Speaker 5: on consumer protection, right so there is a surety I
Speaker 5: think in most people's minds about the fact that if
Speaker 5: I bought something that's brand new, I've had account inspector
Speaker 5: look at it. If we're taking the council inspector out
Speaker 5: of the picture, how do I know that I'm going
Speaker 5: to get a good house. So we'll come back and
Speaker 5: talk about that in a moment. My guess this morning
Speaker 5: in the studio is Chris Pink, the Minister for Building
Speaker 5: and Construction. It's coming up ten minutes away from.
Speaker 1: A freak helping you get those DIY projects done right.
Speaker 1: The resident builder with Beata Wolfcat call oh eight hund
Speaker 1: Youth Talk ZV.
Speaker 5: Chris Pink is with me in the studio and we're
Speaker 5: talking all things building and construction. And I think just
Speaker 5: during the break we were talking about you know, like
Speaker 5: you can have top line comments self certification, but then
Speaker 5: underneath it the detail becomes mind boggling, mind bendingly complex
Speaker 5: within a really short period of time. But it's really
Speaker 5: important because you know, we both agree that what we
Speaker 5: want for people is quality housing that's not going to
Speaker 5: basically fail in the future and ruin people's lives. And
Speaker 5: we've seen that with leaky building it and so on.
Speaker 5: Just in terms of So we talked a little bit
Speaker 5: about self certification, who might be involved. Actually, I want
Speaker 5: to throw in something else which is currently within the
Speaker 5: license building practitioner scheme. I like the fact that you're
Speaker 5: introducing a waterproofing class. I think that's really really going
Speaker 5: to be important because that was kind of a big
Speaker 5: hole in this scheme right now that you know who
Speaker 5: was going to it's restricted building. Yeah quite literally, so
Speaker 5: it's restricted building work, but sort of I would take
Speaker 5: responsibility for it as an LBP building or it just
Speaker 5: felt like there was a gap in the system. So
Speaker 5: we're going to plug that gap again, terrible pun. The
Speaker 5: other thing is that right now, in terms of building licensing,
Speaker 5: there's just one level of license, right so I'm an
Speaker 5: LBP building, that's it. Would you consider introducing levels of
Speaker 5: license for building in the same way that there are
Speaker 5: levels of license in the site license, so you can
Speaker 5: be site license one, two, or three, reflecting experience and
Speaker 5: the scope of work that you can administer. And I
Speaker 5: guess where I'm getting with that is that you know,
Speaker 5: if we're talking about sales certification or remote inspections, that
Speaker 5: one of the ways to qualify for either of those
Speaker 5: things is to be an LBP two or three that
Speaker 5: you could go back and prove your competency, because to
Speaker 5: be blunt, you know, you could go out and I'd
Speaker 5: like to think that I'm a better builder than others.
Speaker 5: That to be really really honest, then another person who
Speaker 5: might just have qualified that, someone who's been in the
Speaker 5: game for a long time, who's got quite a lot
Speaker 5: of responsibility, is that would that be up for grabs,
Speaker 5: very much up.
Speaker 10: For grabs and very happy to consider it. And I'm
Speaker 10: considering it in the sense that it gets raised with
Speaker 10: me reasonably frequently, and I've heard you talk about it
Speaker 10: before as well. Sure it sounds to me like it
Speaker 10: makes a lot of sense, because it's very much that
Speaker 10: philosophy of you know, having a better skilled and qualified
Speaker 10: cohort builders and within that recognizing those that we can have,
Speaker 10: you know, you know, fewer resources applied to And I
Speaker 10: think if I just take a moment to sort of
Speaker 10: explain if I may, in my mind, it's not about
Speaker 10: having lower standards of checking. It's actually saying, well, if
Speaker 10: council has only got a certain amount of resource, and
Speaker 10: realistically they do no such thing as an infinite resource
Speaker 10: of time or rate pay of funds to work these
Speaker 10: things out. Then we actually want that applied you know
Speaker 10: where it's most needed, which is, you know, those who
Speaker 10: are less experienced or qualified or frankly competent. And so yeah,
Speaker 10: I mean I can see a differentiation within the LBP
Speaker 10: along those lines, but it's not something that I'm well
Speaker 10: enough advanced to my own thinking to be able to
Speaker 10: say to you that will happen anytime soon just because
Speaker 10: we've but not so much.
Speaker 5: There's just probably other priorities. Let's talk just briefly if
Speaker 5: we can around joint and several liability. So my take
Speaker 5: on it is that because counsels often end up being
Speaker 5: the only person responsible for building defects, they have got
Speaker 5: to be risk averse. So could we see a change
Speaker 5: perhaps from joint and several liability to proportional liability, so
Speaker 5: that council, you know, if rather than having a million
Speaker 5: dollar bill for a defective building, they will have a
Speaker 5: portion of that and liability will be assigned to others.
Speaker 5: But then how do you chase those people as well?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 10: Really well, and I think that is the right question
Speaker 10: to chase those.
Speaker 5: Tell you what one thing that I haven't learned in
Speaker 5: eleven years. Is how to tell the time we're going
Speaker 5: to take a break, because we've got the news.
Speaker 1: Met twice god once, but maybe called Pete first bid
Speaker 1: your wolf Camp the resident builder.
Speaker 4: News talk said be you, and his talk said be Pete.
Speaker 5: Wolf Camp the resident builder with you Today is always
Speaker 5: on a Sunday, today, particularly special Sunday because of course
Speaker 5: it's Mother's Day. And I really appreciate the fact, Chris
Speaker 5: that you've come in on Mother's Day as well. I
Speaker 5: hope that's all going to be okay at home, but
Speaker 5: it always gets a bit tricky.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so's breakfast and beds and probably on one across
Speaker 10: Auckland as we speak. So I'll dash back once we've
Speaker 10: done and see what we can do about them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I really appreciate you coming in. So we've had
Speaker 5: a fairly extensive discussion around h one, around consenting, around
Speaker 5: bcas I do want to try and talk about joint
Speaker 5: and several liability and what might change. The other thing
Speaker 5: is in terms of insurance for construction work, because I
Speaker 5: guess ultimately what we should all be most concerned about
Speaker 5: is we want quality buildings. We also want quality buildings
Speaker 5: so that a homeowner doesn't end up in a defective
Speaker 5: building and possibly not being able to get redress. Into
Speaker 5: the future, will we see a bigger role for insurance
Speaker 5: in terms of providing the remediation in the future when
Speaker 5: things go wrong? Yeah, I think what's the tool? What
Speaker 5: beaver can you pull down?
Speaker 10: I mean, there a number of different levers, And of
Speaker 10: course you're right, the starting point has to be consumer
Speaker 10: protection because we want people to be confident that's such
Speaker 10: a large asset for them, and it is an asset
Speaker 10: as well as houses, a home and the words of
Speaker 10: the jingles, Sure, and all those kind of important considerations,
Speaker 10: but we know that with so much at stake, we
Speaker 10: can't have people who aren't as expert as yourself and
Speaker 10: probably most of your listeners and are vulnerable. So if
Speaker 10: we think about how we can provide that and insurance
Speaker 10: with a capital I obviously is one of them. And
Speaker 10: I've had a conversation with a few of the insurers
Speaker 10: and the insurance council. They have the same questions, but
Speaker 10: frankly as the rest of us do in terms of
Speaker 10: their level of comfort about whether there are sufficiently high
Speaker 10: standards among the building practitioners, you know, the tradees and
Speaker 10: designers even up front that they won't be liable for
Speaker 10: an avalanche of claims, and of course they're not going
Speaker 10: to be interested for commercial reasons and getting into that
Speaker 10: space any more than the rest of us are happy
Speaker 10: with that from a government outcome point of view, or
Speaker 10: for that matter, councils facing that liability that they do currently.
Speaker 10: And of course the point about council being last person
Speaker 10: standing and therefore having up to one hundred percent of
Speaker 10: the cost of a defect is that, yes, as we've
Speaker 10: discussed the risk averse, but also that's letting off the
Speaker 10: hook those that have actually done the work in a
Speaker 10: poor manner. So maybe you know, maybe there's a different
Speaker 10: and way we could talk about self certification. And it's
Speaker 10: probably on me that I haven't necessarily done this well
Speaker 10: enough so far. But the point is actually placing liability
Speaker 10: where it belongs on the personal persons just to be
Speaker 10: a bit lawyery from them and who have actually done
Speaker 10: the work that's led everyone down. So it's an exercise
Speaker 10: in sheeting home responsibility. So really a double edge sword
Speaker 10: for those who would be self certified. Are you that
Speaker 10: confident you're going to stand behind your work that if
Speaker 10: it's cocked up that you're going to be the one
Speaker 10: who has to meet that shortfall. So you know, that's
Speaker 10: why we have a system not only in working backwards
Speaker 10: from the fact that if there is a problem, we
Speaker 10: want to have it being able to be resolved without
Speaker 10: recourse to the right path, but also it makes it
Speaker 10: less likely in the first place that you have those problems,
Speaker 10: because at the moment it seems to me there's an
Speaker 10: element of all care and a responsibility where a designer
Speaker 10: or a building trades person will submit their work and
Speaker 10: if it's not right, don't worry about it because the
Speaker 10: council will pick it up. No, you have to pay
Speaker 10: a bit more attention to that if it's all on
Speaker 10: your head or in your bank balances. Self certify, so
Speaker 10: insurance are interested, but they are nervous. And if there
Speaker 10: isn't a private insurance silver bullet in the market, and
Speaker 10: at the moment it doesn't seem to me that there is,
Speaker 10: then the other ways of insuring or assuring the quality
Speaker 10: will have to sit elsewhere. And yes, we've talked about
Speaker 10: a few self safeguards to reduce the possibility that there's
Speaker 10: a problem in the first place, but also if you
Speaker 10: think about, you know, the possibility of a fidelity fund,
Speaker 10: whereby you could have particular cases where a person might
Speaker 10: engage a building practitioner. Maybe in the instance of fraud,
Speaker 10: maybe there was a reason that they had not to
Speaker 10: know that, you know, as a reasonably prudent consumer, having
Speaker 10: done your due diligence, if they're still left short by
Speaker 10: some really bad behavior, then maybe there's a case for
Speaker 10: stumping up at a broader level, you know, and with
Speaker 10: the building Levy Fund for example, that's currently paid into
Speaker 10: at the moment, could potentially be paid into that. And
Speaker 10: I'm just you know, stating these possibilities as opposed to
Speaker 10: announcing policy live on air that hasn't yet been signed
Speaker 10: off by the government. But I want to be creative
Speaker 10: about how we can provide the assurance without sacrificing the
Speaker 10: outcomes that we want in terms of timeliness and therefore cost.
Speaker 5: Because every now and then, if you follow the courts
Speaker 5: and the court rulings, you'll find that, you know, a
Speaker 5: homeowner has been awarded you know, nine hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 5: from a build array or developer Bee and so on,
Speaker 5: But do they ever get that money?
Speaker 10: Well, I mean you have to ask laws more so
Speaker 10: than the builders or if you ask the consumers and
Speaker 10: the homeowners. But we've all seen the news items and
Speaker 10: really heartbreaking when you see absolute a young couple, not
Speaker 10: necessarily young of course, or whatever the circumstances are that
Speaker 10: I've been left out of pocket, you know, buy some
Speaker 10: pretty poor behavior, if not invariably as well poor workmanship.
Speaker 10: But there's also opportunities. Maybe I can you know, not
Speaker 10: not too glibally, but put that scenario aside for a
Speaker 10: moment and say there's also a large category of buildings
Speaker 10: for which that is not going to be the case
Speaker 10: because the person doing the development or you know, the
Speaker 10: contracting the builders to do the work, actually will continue
Speaker 10: to own it. If you think about retirement villages, for example,
Speaker 10: the model that they operate on with those licenses to occupy.
Speaker 10: If there's a problem, they're still the owner. They're still
Speaker 10: going to be on them to have to sort that out. Likewise, government,
Speaker 10: you know, huge procure of building works, be it classrooms
Speaker 10: in the education portfolio, social housing and so on. Why
Speaker 10: they're running off to their local council on every single
Speaker 10: occasion is you know, well, let's just say it's not
Speaker 10: necessarily the right model given that, you know, if they
Speaker 10: could be trusted more to get on and do the
Speaker 10: work and hold accountable via contracts that people are doing
Speaker 10: the work, then that'll free up with the resources of
Speaker 10: the system. Of course for people who you know, just
Speaker 10: go and knock on the door and want their own
Speaker 10: private commercial work done in what we always think of
Speaker 10: the ordinary way of things. I should decaid by the way,
Speaker 10: I'm sorry, I pause for breath. I promise you. I
Speaker 10: know you want to get to your text. But in
Speaker 10: terms of social housing, which I have just referred to,
Speaker 10: in fact, of course that is a special case where
Speaker 10: you can see which is the private or rather the public.
Speaker 10: But Bespoke Building Content Authority does that with it's linked
Speaker 10: with KO only at the moment, as opposed to other
Speaker 10: government works. So you know there is a model there
Speaker 10: where we could contemplate doing things differently.
Speaker 5: Just on the consenting. Then there is now the re
Speaker 5: emergence of private certifiers. I think I saw one article
Speaker 5: A company full Sight, I think it is out of Wellington,
Speaker 5: will be able to act as a BCA and undertake
Speaker 5: inspections and issue a code of compliance. We had that
Speaker 5: a few years ago as soon as things got rough,
Speaker 5: they all went to the wall. What's going to be
Speaker 5: different this time around?
Speaker 10: Well, actually nothing in the sense the applications that are
Speaker 10: in currently and I think there are a couple don't
Speaker 10: reflect any changes that have been made under my watch.
Speaker 10: We've got a couple of outfits that are applying to
Speaker 10: be private building content authorities, you know, standing in issues
Speaker 10: or in place of what work is currently done by councils,
Speaker 10: and they're either me those thresholds, including adequate means, which
Speaker 10: is that they've got enough resources.
Speaker 5: If there's a.
Speaker 10: Large scale problem, they'll either meet those or they won't
Speaker 10: on the existing criteria. That's nothing to do with any
Speaker 10: changes I've made. Personally, I think it would be good
Speaker 10: in theory to have such options available because that will
Speaker 10: take a bit of pressure off councils and it will
Speaker 10: allow those who want to make an application in that
Speaker 10: direction to you know, maybe provide a bit of a
Speaker 10: pressure Valven and dare I say, potentially some composite some
Speaker 10: competition too.
Speaker 5: Okay, let's jump into granny flats, so potentially up to
Speaker 5: seventy square meters not necessarily requiring a building consent. I
Speaker 5: talked about this sort of presentation yesterday, a couple of
Speaker 5: hands went up in the audience, going, if it doesn't
Speaker 5: have a building consent, would insurers ensure it?
Speaker 10: Well, I live in a house that doesn't have building consent.
Speaker 10: It was built ninety nine years ago, and you know,
Speaker 10: I don't know if someone came along with a clipboard
Speaker 10: at some point, or if there was a chicken and
Speaker 10: egg scenario where the bank was have to lend to
Speaker 10: me on it, and therefore the insurer was happy to
Speaker 10: provide insurance because of course you can't get.
Speaker 5: The lending if not insured.
Speaker 10: Yeah, but there are lots of good quality buildings that
Speaker 10: pre date the existing regime. And actually I'd wager that
Speaker 10: a lot of buildings around Auckland where we are now
Speaker 10: and across the country prior to the new regime will
Speaker 10: last a lot longer than those that have been consented
Speaker 10: and signed off and insured within a more recent period
Speaker 10: of time with the last couple of building acts. So
Speaker 10: short answer, yes, of course, is insurance available, but you
Speaker 10: know the insurance themselves will make that decision.
Speaker 5: I hear what you're saying. I'm in a nineteen oh
Speaker 5: five villa, so I get that, But I just wonder
Speaker 5: for a new build that arrives on site and doesn't
Speaker 5: have a building consent and you know there's a whole
Speaker 5: lot of stuff in there around how are you going
Speaker 5: to ensure quality of council step away.
Speaker 10: Yeah, well the answer is we'll have it done by
Speaker 10: people who we regard as worthy of the trust. And
Speaker 10: I know some people will say, well, you know you
Speaker 10: shouldn't be able to rely on that, or you know
Speaker 10: you shouldn't rely on that in fact, but you know
Speaker 10: that's the calculation we made because I think it's worth
Speaker 10: you know, noting at the outset. You know, the problem
Speaker 10: we've got to solve here is that building costs increase
Speaker 10: by more than forty percent between twenty nineteen and twenty
Speaker 10: twenty three. It's just simply unaffordable. And if you've got
Speaker 10: something relatively low risk as a structure, and granny flats
Speaker 10: we are talking low risk by definition and yes TBA
Speaker 10: in terms of the detail, but we're getting there. We're
Speaker 10: very very very close by the way till that being
Speaker 10: in the public domain. And if you think about an
Speaker 10: extra mitigation in terms of level entry showers that are
Speaker 10: likely to be a feature of granny flats and therefore
Speaker 10: giving rise to that new waterproofing class of licensed building practitioner. Well,
Speaker 10: if you say, well, if you make all those mitigations,
Speaker 10: then you're not going to be any worse off than
Speaker 10: you currently are. Then it's a thing that we should
Speaker 10: do because a minor residential unit on an existing parth
Speaker 10: out of land that's already got a major dwelling and
Speaker 10: therefore with the infrastructure that's happened to, we're going to
Speaker 10: save a lot of cost. We're going to increase the
Speaker 10: housing supply. Of course, getting back to what we need
Speaker 10: to do, that's the thing we need to achieve.
Speaker 5: Will there be any right to object? Like if my
Speaker 5: neighbor suddenly starts framing up in the backyard and I think,
Speaker 5: as I don't necessarily want that there, obviously they don't
Speaker 5: need a resource consent, they don't need a building consent,
Speaker 5: Is there any grounds to object?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 10: I mean technically that's the resource management side rather than
Speaker 10: building management. So I'm sure I'm probably not fay enough
Speaker 10: with the rules on the other side to be really
Speaker 10: clear on that, but I mean it's worth noting. And
Speaker 10: I can tell you this as a local MP and
Speaker 10: also having been a lawyer previous there's all kinds of
Speaker 10: disputes currently where people put up something they're not meant
Speaker 10: to in the shore and then the neighboring yards. And
Speaker 10: I don't think there's anything new under the sun as
Speaker 10: far as that goes.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, Yeah, we're going to take a short break
Speaker 5: and then we're going to come back and finally get
Speaker 5: round to some texts because to be fair, I've got
Speaker 5: a whole heap more questions as well. But let's take
Speaker 5: a short break back in.
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Speaker 5: I promised that we would get to some techs, so
Speaker 5: we really really should do that. This is a great
Speaker 5: one from Craig, who's a fairly regular contributed to the show,
Speaker 5: and I love his comments. Morning, Chris and Pete. With
Speaker 5: the consent exemptions, let's say for Granny Platz what happens
Speaker 5: in regards to foundations and engineering for foundations. So typically
Speaker 5: if you're doing a new build now you need to
Speaker 5: have the ground surveyed to ensure that it will bear
Speaker 5: the building on top of it. Is that still going
Speaker 5: to be a requirement.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I don't want to put Craig wrong, so I'm
Speaker 10: not going to come flip a coin on whether that's
Speaker 10: the yes or no. But soonly I can tell you
Speaker 10: that with the legislation nearly ready to hit the streets,
Speaker 10: and then once that's past, MB will put out good
Speaker 10: guidance on their website to maybe go through some of
Speaker 10: those line ball cases. And I noted, I think maybe
Speaker 10: last week, but any recently, you had a question coming
Speaker 10: around wood burners as opposed to other heating appliants grany flats,
Speaker 10: and I was able to look that up. It seems
Speaker 10: to me that that's likely to be. You know, that
Speaker 10: would be outside the definition of a simple building such
Speaker 10: that you wouldn't need a consent. So I can imagine
Speaker 10: a scenario, for example, hypothetically, because the legislation doesn't yet
Speaker 10: exist publicly, that you know, the building itself, the grainy
Speaker 10: flat itself wouldn't need the consent, but to install a
Speaker 10: wood burner, that element alone would need.
Speaker 5: To and that essentially makes it more high risk, isn't it.
Speaker 10: So that's right.
Speaker 5: The intent of the legislation seems to be what is
Speaker 5: relatively low risk, So it's only going to be single story.
Speaker 5: It's going to be located far enough from boundaries that
Speaker 5: if it did fall over, it's not going to fall
Speaker 5: onto your neighbor's property. I think it's really important to
Speaker 5: emphasize the fact it can't be connected to an existing building, correct, Yeah, okay, yes, sir,
Speaker 5: I am curious. Then the discussion thus far is around
Speaker 5: the use of lightweight materials, so timber framing, steel framing.
Speaker 5: So you can't do a block wall, for example, can
Speaker 5: you do a concrete slab?
Speaker 10: I don't want to, Okay, I think I don't want Yeah.
Speaker 5: Sorry, Now someone's ticked through and they went, can you
Speaker 5: tell the minister exclamation mark when this healthy homes rought's
Speaker 5: going to be over? My wonderful house built in twenty
Speaker 5: eighteen failed recently. The email was followed up by a
Speaker 5: quote for five grand to do the upgrades and repairs.
Speaker 5: It's a con Now, I suspect that you might have
Speaker 5: some truth to this. Problems incurred leaves in the gutter, okay,
Speaker 5: insulation had compressed slightly and the heating was not enough.
Speaker 10: Your response, Oh god, yeah, I mean healthy homes. It's
Speaker 10: probably a subject for another whole discussion. But obviously a
Speaker 10: huge amount of cost, and it does seem to me
Speaker 10: there's a bit of a disconnect and understanding whether healthy
Speaker 10: homes need to be standards in place for the benefit
Speaker 10: of tenants and so on. Actually, the heating source, I
Speaker 10: think people don't necessarily realize, as opposed to the building
Speaker 10: itself being really well insulated, such that if you invest
Speaker 10: in a heater or whatever as a tenant I do,
Speaker 10: then it's not going to be heating us off.
Speaker 5: I think people will still be surprised that you can
Speaker 5: build a building today to the Building Code, get a
Speaker 5: CCC for it, and it will fail Healthy home standard
Speaker 5: because we don't have a requirement for heating. Yeah, in
Speaker 5: the building Code.
Speaker 10: I no doubt people are surprised, clearly. Still, your correspondence.
Speaker 5: Apples you as well. Actually, the other day at the
Speaker 5: Green Building Council, you talked about ventilation. Can I get
Speaker 5: you just to expand on that. What's obviously people have
Speaker 5: come to you going, hey, we've got a looming problem
Speaker 5: in terms of we're building better, so our buildings are
Speaker 5: more air tight, but we're relying on people opening windows
Speaker 5: which people may not do. So is this part of
Speaker 5: your thinking?
Speaker 10: Yes, I mean, ventilation is another whole again, another subject
Speaker 10: for another day. Not to run away from it it,
Speaker 10: you know, eight twenty six, except to say that I'm
Speaker 10: conscious that we do need to do some more work
Speaker 10: in the space. You know, I've inherited a building code
Speaker 10: that's you know, very good in some respects and less
Speaker 10: good in others. Simply we need to work through all
Speaker 10: these issues. Obviously a massive problem in the summer months
Speaker 10: in townhouses particularly, And if it's as simple as being
Speaker 10: able to say that you can open or have windows
Speaker 10: that open to a greater extent than they currently can,
Speaker 10: which you know, for safety reasons, you can understand why
Speaker 10: you've got other rules in place as well. But maybe
Speaker 10: the balance is out of whack, and I think when
Speaker 10: need to look at it.
Speaker 5: Another text, what governs the extent to which councils can
Speaker 5: make seemingly frivolous rifis requests further information? For example, I
Speaker 5: recently had a drainage plan for a new build rejected
Speaker 5: because it wasn't on a council letterhead.
Speaker 10: Oh goodness, that's one of the better ones I've heard, right,
Speaker 10: or worse ones, probably from your correspondence perspective. But yeah,
Speaker 10: I suppose it is frustrating. I think the common complaint
Speaker 10: that I hear is not only you know, whatever the
Speaker 10: detail might be, but also that tradees are often quite
Speaker 10: nervous about pushing back to council on something that might
Speaker 10: seem quite from us, because they need to have a
Speaker 10: good ongoing relationship otherwise their next content you know, application
Speaker 10: will be viewed you know, askance as a result. So okay,
Speaker 10: so it's an argument against the monopoly, I suppose, albeit
Speaker 10: that you know, obviously we've got a system where the
Speaker 10: councilors currently are contracted out effectively to do this work.
Speaker 10: So there's no easy answer. But certainly that sounds a
Speaker 10: disappointing example. If it's what it sounds like.
Speaker 5: Yeah, sure, just in terms of you know, I was
Speaker 5: going to say that there's a it's like a scatters
Speaker 5: it might seem like a scatter gun approach. Right, We're
Speaker 5: just it's whack a mole right at the moment. Solve
Speaker 5: this problem pauses another problem. Let's say, if we look
Speaker 5: forward to the next couple of months, what sort of
Speaker 5: definitive outcomes will we hear, Like, will we hear about
Speaker 5: H one?
Speaker 10: You'll hear about H one sooner rather than later. And
Speaker 10: I think we're talking, you know, weeks, but as opposed
Speaker 10: to months, and certainly not years. I know we need
Speaker 10: to bring that to a head. We've talked about granny
Speaker 10: flex legislation, so again within the next you know, a
Speaker 10: few weeks or months, there will certainly be that legislation
Speaker 10: available and it will start passing it. The other big
Speaker 10: one actually we haven't talked about, and I know it's
Speaker 10: probably not at the level that probably most of your
Speaker 10: listeners are interested in, but the other really big rock
Speaker 10: that we haven't talked about is seismic regulations great prayin buildings,
Speaker 10: and then you get into the scenario of the interaction
Speaker 10: between that inheritage datu swhich you know people are very
Speaker 10: passionate about. So that's another thing that I think we
Speaker 10: need to now this side of the election. And I'll
Speaker 10: say election not because it's a politically part as a
Speaker 10: matter in fact, I'm desperate do ensure that it's not,
Speaker 10: and you know, I've had good interactions across the political aisle,
Speaker 10: but just in terms of getting things done as soon
Speaker 10: as possible to provide people certainty in all these areas
Speaker 10: is going to be really important.
Speaker 5: Yeah, which, hey, you look to be fair, you could
Speaker 5: do my job, because it's a perfect way of saying
Speaker 5: we should come back and chat about that again in
Speaker 5: the future. So, Chris, thank you very very much for
Speaker 5: your time. Really really do appreciate you taking the time,
Speaker 5: particularly on a Sunday that happens to be Mother's day,
Speaker 5: to come in here and spend time. And yeah, I'll
Speaker 5: reach out to your people two people, talk to my
Speaker 5: people and will will arrange another interview at some stage.
Speaker 5: If that's okay with.
Speaker 10: You, Well, wonderful I that and it means I really
Speaker 10: appreciate it. Keep up the great work and having another
Speaker 10: day to wear listeners.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you very much, Chris. We'll take a break
Speaker 5: back with rut in just a moment.
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