1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: New direction coming for the public service. Another of these 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: letters of expectation from the government. This is a workforce 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: policy statement that covers everything from pay, equity, diversity, remuneration 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: to contractor costs. The message from the government around pay 5 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: is that collective bargaining and pay increases must come from 6 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: budget baselines. The Public Service Minister is, of course Nikola Willis, 7 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: who is with us, a very good morning to you. 8 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 2: Good morning, Mike. 9 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: Do you want to join in the game of guessing 10 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: what Adrian's thinking at the moment or not? 11 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 2: Well, you know, his independent decisions and I need to 12 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: separate myself out from them. We've just said, look, we're 13 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: getting inflation down. When inflation comes down, interest rates can 14 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: follow and he will decide how soon. 15 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: Okay, this letter to the public service is that why now, 16 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: given you've been an office for seven or eight months. 17 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 2: Well, because we're now entering new rounds of collective bargaining 18 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: and it's very important going into those negotiations. But government 19 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 2: agencies are realistic about our financial circumstances, which is there 20 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: is not much money in the coffers and we need 21 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: to be extremely disciplined if we're to hit our budgets. 22 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: So that includes howgotiate to pay in times. Pay rises 23 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: for the public sector have risen ahead of the private sector, 24 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 2: and that's not quite right. We don't want them leaving 25 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 2: like that is. 26 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: Correct, which is what I was just going to raise. 27 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: So wages yesterday, and the unemployment numbers at four point three, 28 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: but that's averaged out. The public sector beats the private 29 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: sector hands down, doesn't it. 30 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 2: It does, And that reflects a number of big negotiations 31 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: that have gone a reflex pay equity going through. And 32 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: we think we're now entering a time of restraint and 33 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,559 Speaker 2: moderation and that's going to be effect in the public service. 34 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: For good news is we've got inentation coming down, but 35 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 2: people's wages can go a lot further. We're not seeing 36 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: prices increase rapidly every week. 37 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of things. While I've got your Minister 38 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: of finance, hat are we looking to I mean, I 39 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: know we're looking, but are we going to have to 40 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: import lerg into this country to keep a few businesses open? 41 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: We are looking at the feasibility of that, and that's 42 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 2: because we are in a very dramatic situation. We do 43 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: not have enough gas. That means we have significant electricity 44 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: shortages and have been experiencing the highest electricity spot prices 45 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 2: in the world. And I'll tell you something about countries 46 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 2: that are poor and energy. They are poor countries. So 47 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: we need to get this sorted. We don't want to 48 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: see businesses falling over because they can't afford electricity. And 49 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: there's no doubt the shortage and gas has contributed to 50 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: this significantly. In importing liquefied natural gas could be a solution. 51 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: Okay, So could it be solved if it rained heavily 52 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: and the spot price drops and everyone goes fuel or 53 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: is this a bigger picture thing that we need to 54 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: have some. 55 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: Sort of plan on in the short term. You're right, 56 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 2: if it rained a lot, these problems would not be 57 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: as acute. But I don't want to be in a 58 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: situation where every winter for the next few years we're 59 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: worrying biting our nails for the rain to fall. We 60 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 2: actually need to have some backup capacity. That's what gas 61 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: has traditionally been there for. The last government banned the 62 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 2: exploration of it, and we now find ourselves in a 63 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: very tricky situation. So we're looking at what we need 64 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: to do immediately to keep the lights on affordably, but 65 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: then also over the medium term, what may be needed 66 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: to make this an electricity rich country. The world is 67 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 2: actually in a race for who can generate electricity affordably 68 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: and sustainably. Countries that can will be welcoming industry, new jobs, 69 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: the industries of the future, data centers AI. Countries that 70 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 2: can't get it done are going to fall behind, and 71 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: I do not want that to. 72 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: Be using the three mills so far, one in Auckland, 73 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: two in the center of the North Island. Are you 74 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: hearing there are more? In other words, if you're in 75 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: that broad industry roughly and it requires electricity, are lots 76 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: of people actually in trouble. We just haven't heard about 77 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: it yet. 78 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: I'm hearing there is a lot of pain because of 79 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: these high spot prices. That is putting a lot of 80 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: pressure on a lot of businesses who are desperately searching 81 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: some sort of relief. And that is why we are 82 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: treating this with urgency and are considering those extraordinary measures 83 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: such as the importation of liquid natural gas and the 84 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 2: investments required to do that. These are not normal things 85 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: to be having to be thinking about as a government, Mike, 86 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: but We've been left in a terrible situation by the 87 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: previous government which was reckless in its decision making and 88 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: put that very basic commodity, affordable electricity, at risk, and 89 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: people should never forget it. 90 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: Megan would said the other day it's not her fault 91 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: at all because they hadn't discovered gas in a year, 92 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: So no big deal. You say what I say. 93 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: That is absolutely ridiculous. When you say to the industry 94 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: you are not allowed to explore for gas, the effectives 95 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: no one wants an investment in your country anymore and 96 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: you won't be getting any gas. And she did that 97 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: even while having no plans to accelerate the building of 98 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 2: wind farms and solar farms, no plan to make up 99 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: for that gap and generation. And now we find ourselves 100 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 2: in a situation where we are literally having factories closed down, 101 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: with New Zealanders losing their jobs, communities devastated because we 102 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: don't have enough electricity. Unacceptable. 103 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: Correct. Nichola Willis, Finance Minister, came on as Public Service Minister. 104 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 105 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: News Talks it' B from six am weekdays, or follow 106 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.