WEBVTT - Leighton Smith Podcast #251 - August 14th 2024 - Professor Robert MacCulloch 0:00:09.133 --> 0:00:12.693 You're listening to a podcast from News Talks B. Follow 0:00:12.773 --> 0:00:16.373 this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:16.773 --> 0:00:19.773 It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 0:00:19.853 --> 0:00:24.373 the information, all the debates of the Union. Now the 0:00:24.533 --> 0:00:27.733 Leyton Smith podcast Coward by news Talks it B. 0:00:28.253 --> 0:00:31.773 Welcome to Podcasts two hundred and fifty one for August fourteen, 0:00:32.133 --> 0:00:36.733 twenty twenty four. Professor Robert McCulloch has a resume and 0:00:36.773 --> 0:00:40.133 that is to be en beat. He began his tertiary 0:00:40.213 --> 0:00:44.173 education at the University of Auckland, continued at the London 0:00:44.213 --> 0:00:48.773 School of Economics, Princeton University of America. He was director 0:00:48.813 --> 0:00:52.973 of the PhD program at Imperial College in London. He's 0:00:53.013 --> 0:00:56.853 been awarded with numerous prizes along the way, and returned 0:00:56.853 --> 0:01:00.173 to New Zealand twelve years ago. He is Professor of 0:01:00.333 --> 0:01:06.373 Macroeconomics at Auckland University and publishes widely, including his own 0:01:06.453 --> 0:01:10.093 sites down to Worth Kiwi. And that's another statement. And 0:01:10.213 --> 0:01:12.933 in spite of his career success, he appears to be modest, 0:01:13.453 --> 0:01:17.573 but with the ability and the intent to ruffle feathers. 0:01:18.493 --> 0:01:22.373 I think you'll enjoy this particular discussion. Now, please keep 0:01:22.413 --> 0:01:25.693 in mind that this was recorded and put to bed 0:01:26.213 --> 0:01:29.533 before Adrian or the Governor of the Reserve Bank made 0:01:29.573 --> 0:01:33.973 his announcement with regard to it to interest rates, so 0:01:34.173 --> 0:01:37.213 that could or may not affect anything that we've said 0:01:37.253 --> 0:01:41.533 in the discussion. Just a few moments ago, I was 0:01:41.573 --> 0:01:44.173 filling in a bit of time looking at an article 0:01:44.253 --> 0:01:49.053 written by somebody I've previously interviewed. The said article runs 0:01:49.613 --> 0:01:52.253 twenty eight printed pages. Yes, I've printed all of it, 0:01:52.933 --> 0:01:57.573 and I'm wondering whether to interview the author again in 0:01:57.613 --> 0:02:01.173 one setting or turn twenty eight pages into a series 0:02:01.213 --> 0:02:03.653 because it covers a hell of a lot of current 0:02:03.853 --> 0:02:07.453 and important matter. Now, on a more serious note, I 0:02:07.493 --> 0:02:10.493 received this from a a friend and it relates to 0:02:10.533 --> 0:02:15.693 the plane crash in Brazil, which was last week I 0:02:15.733 --> 0:02:19.213 think on Friday their time. But it gives some detail 0:02:19.373 --> 0:02:21.853 with regard to some of the passengers. Now, you may 0:02:21.853 --> 0:02:23.733 have heard of this by the time you listened to 0:02:23.773 --> 0:02:27.293 the podcast, but either way it doesn't matter. Doctors killed 0:02:27.373 --> 0:02:32.293 in plane crash vowed to release evidence linking mRNA to 0:02:32.653 --> 0:02:37.013 Turbo cancer. Eight cancer doctors who dedicated their lives to 0:02:37.053 --> 0:02:40.813 saving others and blowing the whistle on the devastating turbocancer 0:02:40.813 --> 0:02:45.413 epidemics sweeping the world have been found dead. The bodies 0:02:45.453 --> 0:02:50.013 of six world leading oncologists and two resident medics were 0:02:50.013 --> 0:02:52.533 found on Friday in the wreckage of the plane that 0:02:52.653 --> 0:02:55.853 plunged from the sky in Brazil and exploded in a fireball, 0:02:55.973 --> 0:03:00.173 killing all sixty two people on board. The doctors were 0:03:00.253 --> 0:03:03.133 on their way to an international conference in South Paulo, 0:03:03.613 --> 0:03:07.133 where they were set to present their findings that mRNA 0:03:07.413 --> 0:03:11.853 and COVID nineteen vaccines are responsible for the explosion of 0:03:11.933 --> 0:03:17.013 turbocancers and autoimmune disease, wreaking havoc around the world. Today, 0:03:17.333 --> 0:03:20.093 mainstream media are working over time to brush this story 0:03:20.173 --> 0:03:24.053 under the carpet. Now that sounds a little conspiratorial, and 0:03:24.093 --> 0:03:26.973 if it does to you, then my only suggestion is 0:03:27.133 --> 0:03:30.813 keep an open mind, because there's more going on behind 0:03:30.853 --> 0:03:33.853 the scenes than any of us really aware of. And 0:03:33.933 --> 0:03:45.293 so to Professor Robert McCulloch after the break, there are 0:03:45.533 --> 0:03:48.453 essential fat nutrients that we need in our diet as 0:03:48.493 --> 0:03:51.613 the body can't manufacture them. These are Omega three and 0:03:51.693 --> 0:03:55.773 Amiga six fatty acids. Equisine is a combination of fish 0:03:55.813 --> 0:03:59.653 oil and virgin evening primrose oil, a formula that provides 0:03:59.693 --> 0:04:02.653 an excellent source of Omega three and Omega six fatty 0:04:02.693 --> 0:04:06.533 acids in their naturally existing ratios. 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Equisine can support mood, 0:04:42.053 --> 0:04:45.653 balance and mental clarity and focus in children, all the 0:04:45.653 --> 0:04:48.813 way to supporting stiff joints, mental focus, brain health and 0:04:48.933 --> 0:04:52.173 healthy eyes as we get older. Equaisin is a premium, 0:04:52.213 --> 0:04:55.733 high grade fish and evening primrose oil to be taken 0:04:55.853 --> 0:04:59.173 in addition to a healthy diet and is only available 0:04:59.213 --> 0:05:02.293 from pharmacies and health stores. Always read the label and 0:05:02.453 --> 0:05:06.573 users directed and if symptoms persist, seeing your health care professional. 0:05:06.773 --> 0:05:22.493 Farmer Broker Auckland. Robert McCulloch is Professor of macro Economics 0:05:22.613 --> 0:05:28.013 at Auckland University. Now he has a very long resume, 0:05:28.813 --> 0:05:31.333 but we will stick with the professorship at the moment 0:05:31.373 --> 0:05:33.893 because that's all that matters to us. He is a Kiwi, 0:05:33.933 --> 0:05:38.093 he's a New Zealander. He's worked and studied in various 0:05:38.173 --> 0:05:43.053 universities and places around the world. Very very impressive. When 0:05:43.053 --> 0:05:45.653 did you return to by the way, welcome to the podcast. 0:05:45.693 --> 0:05:46.813 When did you return to. 0:05:46.693 --> 0:05:49.053 New Zealand about twelve years ago? 0:05:49.933 --> 0:05:53.853 Have you been at Auckland University all that time? 0:05:54.813 --> 0:05:55.773 About a decade? 0:05:55.973 --> 0:05:59.173 And when I left school in univisity, I work in 0:05:59.253 --> 0:06:03.373 Wellington at Reserve Bank of New Zealand for a couple 0:06:03.413 --> 0:06:05.173 of years before going abroad. 0:06:05.653 --> 0:06:09.973 How buried are you in the subject of macroeconomics? 0:06:10.333 --> 0:06:14.053 Yeah, well it's the subject I've been studying for about 0:06:14.093 --> 0:06:20.293 twenty thirty years in not just in this country, around 0:06:20.453 --> 0:06:25.533 around the world, and I take a great interest not 0:06:25.613 --> 0:06:29.533 just in economics but also politics as it relates to 0:06:30.293 --> 0:06:33.693 the subject. I used to attend the meetings of the 0:06:33.893 --> 0:06:38.013 Zet Initiative, which is this sort of think tank national 0:06:38.093 --> 0:06:42.853 party advisor on behalf of one of their members, the 0:06:42.893 --> 0:06:46.213 former bear Baron, Sir Douglas Myers, who died a number 0:06:46.213 --> 0:06:46.773 of years ago. 0:06:46.853 --> 0:06:47.773 So I take an interest. 0:06:47.813 --> 0:06:50.253 It's not just sort of public sector, but private sector 0:06:50.973 --> 0:06:53.013 quite quite a range as well as politics. 0:06:53.533 --> 0:06:56.693 The Reserve Bank, of course, is another interest that you 0:06:56.733 --> 0:07:00.773 would have. Yes, so we'll get to the Reserve Bank shortly. 0:07:01.093 --> 0:07:04.973 But the state of the country at the moment financially economically, 0:07:05.493 --> 0:07:06.373 how do you view it? 0:07:06.693 --> 0:07:11.613 Well, it's not great, of course. Why isn't it great? 0:07:12.733 --> 0:07:16.813 A lot of it has to do with how the 0:07:16.853 --> 0:07:23.093 country was managed during the COVID years and the finance 0:07:23.173 --> 0:07:27.293 minister back then, Robertson, who's popped up as vice chancellor 0:07:27.413 --> 0:07:31.293 of Otaga University on six hundred and twenty nine thousand 0:07:31.333 --> 0:07:31.653 a year. 0:07:31.733 --> 0:07:34.333 By the way, Grant Robertson. 0:07:33.973 --> 0:07:38.053 Assured us that he really staked his reputation on the 0:07:38.093 --> 0:07:41.693 fact that he said the COVID policy of the government 0:07:42.253 --> 0:07:46.453 would create good health outcomes and good economic outcomes. 0:07:46.493 --> 0:07:48.973 The two went exactly had in hand. 0:07:49.813 --> 0:07:55.133 Well, that's been proven to be false, and that line 0:07:55.293 --> 0:08:01.013 was also promoted by Michael Baker at the epidemiologist at 0:08:01.013 --> 0:08:02.093 Otaga University. 0:08:02.133 --> 0:08:03.213 That's just not true. 0:08:04.093 --> 0:08:08.253 As a result of the policies during the COVID year 0:08:08.693 --> 0:08:12.253 in which they are reserving printed fifty billion bucks of 0:08:12.373 --> 0:08:17.093 cash on top of a massive fiscal expansion of the 0:08:17.093 --> 0:08:22.773 government of Robertson financed by debt. Those over the top 0:08:22.933 --> 0:08:27.253 policies have landed us have a large part of the 0:08:27.293 --> 0:08:31.373 responsibility for landing us in the mess we're currently in, 0:08:32.053 --> 0:08:35.533 which is a recession. Westpac economists of predicting it might 0:08:35.573 --> 0:08:41.253 even be a triple dip recession. And so we're still 0:08:41.253 --> 0:08:46.653 emerging from the carnage of those six years of mismanagement 0:08:47.093 --> 0:08:49.573 by Grant Robertson. So you know, good luck to Otaga 0:08:49.653 --> 0:08:53.573 University because Robinson's been hired by them to sort out 0:08:53.613 --> 0:08:59.613 their financial situation, while Grant has left the financial situation 0:08:59.693 --> 0:09:01.733 of this country in an utter shambles. 0:09:02.493 --> 0:09:04.733 So you singled him out. As far as the government 0:09:04.813 --> 0:09:10.373 is concerned, is the then Prime Minister have a percentage 0:09:10.373 --> 0:09:11.373 of responsibility for that? 0:09:12.373 --> 0:09:17.853 Well, of course, because there was this view that they 0:09:17.893 --> 0:09:23.173 brought into coming from their advisors like Baker and Otago. 0:09:24.013 --> 0:09:29.773 The theme of their government was good health outcomes go 0:09:29.933 --> 0:09:33.453 hand in hand with good economic outcomes. They thought everything 0:09:33.493 --> 0:09:38.413 they were doing in terms of COVID would lead to 0:09:38.973 --> 0:09:41.613 the best economic outcomes in the world, so they argued, 0:09:41.613 --> 0:09:43.653 we're the best health outcomes and we'd have the best 0:09:43.653 --> 0:09:49.653 economic outcomes. Well, funnily enough, America is currently booming and 0:09:49.733 --> 0:09:50.733 we're in a recession. 0:09:52.213 --> 0:09:55.253 So heck that was a bit off, wasn't it. 0:09:55.333 --> 0:10:00.293 And what really stuffed the country was towards the end 0:10:00.573 --> 0:10:04.093 of twenty twenty one, going right quite recently into twenty 0:10:04.133 --> 0:10:08.893 twenty two, Auckland was in a full scale lockdown. So 0:10:09.053 --> 0:10:12.333 the city where almost forty percent of the country to live, 0:10:12.813 --> 0:10:17.573 the hub of much of its economic output, was shut 0:10:17.653 --> 0:10:23.773 down and the entire city was locked up. And you 0:10:23.813 --> 0:10:27.333 know that, I think took away the mojo of Auckland. 0:10:27.373 --> 0:10:31.533 It took away our confidence, and Hipkins and a Deern 0:10:31.813 --> 0:10:35.173 were largely responsible for that. It seems at some sort 0:10:35.173 --> 0:10:39.253 of quite deep level Hepkins really doesn't like Auckland, and 0:10:39.293 --> 0:10:42.413 Auckland doesn't really like him, so it's hard to see 0:10:42.413 --> 0:10:45.733 how he could ever really hope being Prime Minister again 0:10:46.133 --> 0:10:49.573 when he did that to forty percent of the country's 0:10:49.573 --> 0:10:52.413 population and stuffed the economy in the process. 0:10:54.533 --> 0:10:57.973 It's a very interesting and I think very accurate take 0:10:59.093 --> 0:11:01.573 but there were other things that contributed to the to 0:11:01.573 --> 0:11:04.813 the situation in Auckland. Of course, we'll get onto one 0:11:04.813 --> 0:11:07.293 of those. No, we'll get onto a couple of those shortly. 0:11:08.333 --> 0:11:11.533 There is another matter that has bugged this country for 0:11:11.573 --> 0:11:15.933 a long time, productivity or lack of it. More importantly, 0:11:16.653 --> 0:11:22.213 why is it that our productivity has been stemied for 0:11:22.293 --> 0:11:24.813 so long and nobody seems to be able to make 0:11:25.253 --> 0:11:27.613 what is a worthwhile impact upon it. 0:11:29.613 --> 0:11:34.253 Well, yes, productivity. It's in the news all the time. 0:11:34.293 --> 0:11:39.693 It has been for the last twenty odd years. And 0:11:39.733 --> 0:11:40.573 my view of. 0:11:40.493 --> 0:11:44.933 That is that the so called experts. 0:11:45.173 --> 0:11:48.013 And you know, some folks would say, and I'm meant 0:11:48.013 --> 0:11:50.453 to be an expert. Well, the government set up the 0:11:50.453 --> 0:11:56.253 Productivity Commission, which was focused entirely on that matter, how 0:11:56.293 --> 0:11:59.213 to find out what was causing low productivity and how 0:11:59.253 --> 0:12:02.333 to fix it, and it's recently been wound up, it's 0:12:02.333 --> 0:12:04.933 been abolished by the government. So my view on that is, 0:12:05.693 --> 0:12:09.613 if you're briefly honest about it, we still don't know 0:12:10.453 --> 0:12:15.173 exactly what has held back productivity growth in the country, 0:12:16.133 --> 0:12:17.373 and I. 0:12:17.333 --> 0:12:19.093 Think that's the fair solution. 0:12:20.093 --> 0:12:23.653 Instead, you have a different person every week saying they 0:12:23.733 --> 0:12:32.533 blame red tape. Others blame how geographic isolation. Some people 0:12:33.173 --> 0:12:36.253 say there's something wrong with the tax system and that 0:12:36.293 --> 0:12:43.533 should be changed. The Productivity Commission said, where you know, 0:12:43.613 --> 0:12:45.733 so far away from our major markets. 0:12:45.773 --> 0:12:47.013 We're a small country. 0:12:47.453 --> 0:12:52.373 But the Productivity Commission ended up listing about twenty different factors. 0:12:52.893 --> 0:12:56.933 And in a way that's unsatisfactory because you really want 0:12:56.973 --> 0:12:59.973 to know what's the most important factor, and you know, 0:13:00.253 --> 0:13:03.093 a ranking of the factors, what's the thing we should 0:13:03.173 --> 0:13:04.253 really focus on. 0:13:05.133 --> 0:13:06.333 Is it, say, red tape? 0:13:06.533 --> 0:13:09.933 And you know, David Seymour's are going to head up 0:13:09.973 --> 0:13:12.133 a new Ministry of Regulation to try to cut that. 0:13:12.613 --> 0:13:15.853 But is that the main issue or is it something else? 0:13:16.493 --> 0:13:19.413 And I think the Productivity Commission failed because it never 0:13:20.093 --> 0:13:25.013 really ranked that long list in order of most to 0:13:25.133 --> 0:13:31.013 least important. So it is unsatisfactory that for that reason, 0:13:31.333 --> 0:13:36.493 because you know, the experts have never definitively identified what 0:13:36.613 --> 0:13:40.733 it is. And it's become also confused by the fact 0:13:40.773 --> 0:13:44.733 that productivity has been slowing in other countries like the 0:13:44.853 --> 0:13:49.373 United States and in Europe, that many of those countries 0:13:49.413 --> 0:13:53.573 have been suffering a productivity slow down, and some of 0:13:53.613 --> 0:13:58.173 them are pointing to issues like the aging population, they're 0:13:58.213 --> 0:14:02.293 just not as sort of many young people who tend 0:14:02.293 --> 0:14:06.813 to be more innovative than older people. So it's incredibly 0:14:06.853 --> 0:14:13.413 hard to identify exactly what the cause is. My suspicion 0:14:13.773 --> 0:14:18.013 in this country over the last ten or so years 0:14:18.253 --> 0:14:24.413 is that we've drifted into not becoming a meritocracy and 0:14:24.573 --> 0:14:27.213 the people, the students we have, the ones who work 0:14:27.293 --> 0:14:29.533 hardest get the highest grades. 0:14:29.573 --> 0:14:31.133 They're not getting the best jobs. 0:14:32.213 --> 0:14:38.293 Other factors are coming into play, and certainly we know 0:14:38.493 --> 0:14:41.453 if you try to run a nation where the best 0:14:41.453 --> 0:14:46.053 people are not promoted to the top, productivity we know 0:14:46.213 --> 0:14:48.373 for a fact in economics is really. 0:14:48.413 --> 0:14:49.333 Going to suffer. 0:14:50.373 --> 0:14:55.013 Market economies are built on rewarding effort and ability. And 0:14:55.813 --> 0:14:59.613 so my sort of preferred suspect as to what's holding 0:14:59.693 --> 0:15:01.373 us back is we have to get back to a 0:15:01.413 --> 0:15:05.733 country where meritocracy is rewarded. And if you look at 0:15:05.733 --> 0:15:09.973 the outstanding performance of our applet, how is the Olympic 0:15:10.173 --> 0:15:14.853 team chosen? Is it chosen on sort of other factors 0:15:14.933 --> 0:15:19.173 coming into play, on what kind of team that looks 0:15:19.293 --> 0:15:21.773 nice that you want, or is it done on who 0:15:21.773 --> 0:15:25.733 got that, who was the fastest, who was the fastest canoeist, 0:15:26.173 --> 0:15:29.333 who was the quickest, who could jump the highest and 0:15:29.453 --> 0:15:29.973 high jump. 0:15:30.493 --> 0:15:31.973 No, they select. 0:15:31.653 --> 0:15:35.533 The team on who was the best, the highest, the strongest. 0:15:35.693 --> 0:15:38.093 They don't select it on other factors. And look at 0:15:38.093 --> 0:15:41.333 what the Kiwi athletes did, one of the best performances 0:15:41.373 --> 0:15:43.613 in the world. So I think, I think as a 0:15:43.653 --> 0:15:47.973 country we respond to incentives, and I think, particularly over 0:15:47.973 --> 0:15:52.293 the last six years, certainly labor virtually destroyed the idea 0:15:52.293 --> 0:15:55.973 of meritocracy in the country. I think it's unforgivable what 0:15:56.013 --> 0:15:57.133 they did in that respect. 0:15:57.373 --> 0:16:00.573 We have to get back to rewarding merit. That's my view. 0:16:00.893 --> 0:16:03.413 That's I'm not going to prove easy I feel, but 0:16:03.933 --> 0:16:07.493 I very much appreciated you pointing out the dying off 0:16:07.693 --> 0:16:12.413 of a certain class of the population. I don't want 0:16:12.413 --> 0:16:14.933 to narrow it down, but just the dying off of 0:16:15.693 --> 0:16:19.973 an attitude that came out of the Second World War. 0:16:20.013 --> 0:16:23.813 If it wasn't there before, uh and and and stayed 0:16:23.813 --> 0:16:25.973 for a long time, and then all of us, well, 0:16:26.013 --> 0:16:27.773 not all of a sudden, but it seemed all of 0:16:27.813 --> 0:16:31.573 a sudden you had a different approach from those who 0:16:31.613 --> 0:16:37.973 were exiting school going on to wherever else they went 0:16:38.693 --> 0:16:42.493 that lacked lacked an attitude now I can. I can 0:16:42.573 --> 0:16:45.893 point to that in the in the industry or the 0:16:45.933 --> 0:16:49.533 business that I've been in, when they've experienced people applying 0:16:49.693 --> 0:16:56.133 for jobs and it's nights or weekends or a bit 0:16:56.173 --> 0:16:59.853 of both or what no, no, no, no, I don't 0:16:59.853 --> 0:17:03.093 work weekends. I don't work nights. I've got other things 0:17:03.133 --> 0:17:06.653 to do. And this has been an attitude, and the minuture, 0:17:06.893 --> 0:17:09.493 the minuture hear that it's really a case of I 0:17:09.533 --> 0:17:12.453 want the corner office. Not did you have officers anymore 0:17:12.493 --> 0:17:14.853 in broadcasting, but I want the corner office, and I 0:17:14.853 --> 0:17:18.253 want at least three phones and a television and by 0:17:18.253 --> 0:17:19.893 the way, while you're at it, get me a maid. 0:17:20.493 --> 0:17:21.853 That's the attitude that. 0:17:23.653 --> 0:17:26.693 Has entered the arena, and I think I think that's 0:17:26.733 --> 0:17:29.733 why it's been very hard to identify it. You know, 0:17:29.733 --> 0:17:33.293 if you're looking at statistics and numbers, it's very hard 0:17:33.333 --> 0:17:36.773 to prove it when it's sort of a cultural change 0:17:36.773 --> 0:17:41.893 in an attitude. But that's what my suspicion is. It 0:17:42.013 --> 0:17:45.413 is that kind of attitude change you're changing or you're describing. 0:17:46.213 --> 0:17:48.413 You know, I've heard, by the way, it was that 0:17:48.533 --> 0:17:54.173 from the wife whose husband was the former chief executive 0:17:54.293 --> 0:17:59.493 of Southern cross medical insurance, so they know all the 0:17:59.533 --> 0:18:02.413 sort of doctors in the country. She said, there is 0:18:02.453 --> 0:18:07.133 no doctor shortage in the country. That's all a myth. Apparently, 0:18:07.213 --> 0:18:10.733 the talk is as you say that a large number 0:18:10.733 --> 0:18:13.293 of medical school graduates now don't want to work. 0:18:13.973 --> 0:18:16.133 Are you know five seven days a week. 0:18:16.613 --> 0:18:18.973 My dad was a GP work seven days a week 0:18:19.373 --> 0:18:21.013 for many years when I was growing up. 0:18:21.053 --> 0:18:23.173 He was on call frequently in the weekends. 0:18:23.173 --> 0:18:25.413 Apparently, she said, you know, a lot of graduates now 0:18:25.453 --> 0:18:29.733 want to work Tuesday to Thursday. You know, have these 0:18:29.773 --> 0:18:32.893 sort of hours of their choosing, and they're just as 0:18:32.893 --> 0:18:35.573 an attitude, they don't want to work like the previous 0:18:35.613 --> 0:18:36.453 generation did. 0:18:37.333 --> 0:18:41.093 Well, there's another aspect to the medical side of things, 0:18:41.133 --> 0:18:46.813 and that is the changes in well the attempted changes 0:18:47.693 --> 0:18:54.973 in hospitals by boards of how doctors conduct themselves. And 0:18:55.493 --> 0:18:58.093 I have to include, because I can't avoid it, the 0:18:58.773 --> 0:19:02.733 racial aspects of it with and I've been shown numerous, 0:19:02.893 --> 0:19:06.373 on numerous occasions examples of this where if you are 0:19:07.133 --> 0:19:12.373 mari then you are entitled to first and more of 0:19:12.493 --> 0:19:15.973 much of the health system. And there's no avoiding it. 0:19:16.613 --> 0:19:20.853 And I said to one doctor, a very good specialist, 0:19:22.133 --> 0:19:24.453 when he was actually showing me what he had to 0:19:24.973 --> 0:19:28.733 deal with. I said, would you consider leaving the country 0:19:28.813 --> 0:19:33.893 without breathing? He said yes. And that probably has led 0:19:33.933 --> 0:19:36.933 to the belief, well contributed to the belief that we 0:19:36.973 --> 0:19:39.853 have a shortage of doctors, and maybe we have a 0:19:39.853 --> 0:19:41.813 shortage of specialists. I don't know. 0:19:43.533 --> 0:19:46.253 Yeah, Well, the entire health system needs to be changed. 0:19:46.293 --> 0:19:48.373 It's not a matter of just changing the person at 0:19:48.413 --> 0:19:53.293 the top, like Lester Levy. The entire system has to 0:19:53.333 --> 0:19:56.813 be changed. My preferred reform, which I don't think that 0:19:56.813 --> 0:20:02.333 the NATS have got the guts to do, is to. 0:20:01.333 --> 0:20:04.053 Keep the single payer structure that we have. 0:20:04.213 --> 0:20:07.493 That as the government pays the bills universal health care, 0:20:07.813 --> 0:20:11.853 so no one has to worry, but it negotiates prices 0:20:12.573 --> 0:20:16.373 at the hospitals for all different procedures. Barmac already does 0:20:16.413 --> 0:20:22.133 that with the private drug companies. The medical laboratories are private, 0:20:22.213 --> 0:20:26.373 gps are private practices. So the government negotiates prices and 0:20:26.413 --> 0:20:30.853 then anyone public or private can offer their services at 0:20:30.933 --> 0:20:36.293 those prices. And if it turns out that over half 0:20:37.053 --> 0:20:42.173 of the hill system that people prefer to go private, 0:20:42.213 --> 0:20:45.173 and over half of it is private suppliers, and that's fantastic, 0:20:45.333 --> 0:20:50.653 and the public hospitals maybe become smaller, or if the 0:20:50.693 --> 0:20:53.773 public sector is able to outcompete the private that's great 0:20:53.773 --> 0:20:58.533 as well. But we need massive influx of competition, probably 0:20:58.533 --> 0:21:03.093 a huge expansion of private suppliers. Everyone's covered, and you 0:21:03.133 --> 0:21:05.813 can choose whether you go public and private. But having 0:21:05.853 --> 0:21:10.573 this system of a single payer, which is fine, but 0:21:10.653 --> 0:21:15.093 also essentially single supplier that is the big public hospitals, 0:21:15.893 --> 0:21:18.333 you get into all of this mess where the government's 0:21:18.413 --> 0:21:23.133 policies on all sorts of matters, not just medical help, 0:21:23.173 --> 0:21:27.573 but all sorts of ideology of the government creeps into 0:21:27.613 --> 0:21:30.853 the supply side, and I think that needs to change. 0:21:31.293 --> 0:21:33.693 I want to back up just a moment, when you 0:21:33.733 --> 0:21:37.573 were mentioning the pandemic and the effect that it had 0:21:37.653 --> 0:21:41.493 in the reaction to it on both the health and 0:21:41.613 --> 0:21:46.853 economic front, what advice would you have because undoubtedly, well 0:21:46.893 --> 0:21:49.733 I'm guessing that you won't ask for any advice, But 0:21:49.813 --> 0:21:52.973 what advice would you have given the government if they 0:21:53.613 --> 0:21:54.693 if they'd sorted. 0:21:55.293 --> 0:21:58.533 Yeah, well, the government had their chosen advisors. I think 0:21:58.573 --> 0:22:03.333 that led to Durn's downfall because she didn't. 0:22:03.093 --> 0:22:04.693 Listen to a range of advice. 0:22:04.853 --> 0:22:10.373 She just had the advisors who she loves, and she 0:22:10.533 --> 0:22:14.773 listened to pretty much everything they had to say. So 0:22:15.413 --> 0:22:18.813 this isn't with hindsight. By the way, Robertson accused some 0:22:18.893 --> 0:22:22.053 of us who do commentary on this as just commenting 0:22:22.053 --> 0:22:26.213 with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, I was 0:22:26.253 --> 0:22:31.493 writing that on the blog in the papers that given 0:22:31.573 --> 0:22:36.373 there was such an extraordinary large fiscal expansion of borrowing 0:22:37.653 --> 0:22:41.333 financed by borrowing, it was unnecessary to do such a 0:22:41.413 --> 0:22:43.853 large monetary expansion as well. 0:22:44.133 --> 0:22:46.533 So at the time my view was that was a 0:22:46.573 --> 0:22:48.853 major mistake. Of course, the. 0:22:48.773 --> 0:22:52.293 Wage substy scheme, that sort of thing was all good. 0:22:52.333 --> 0:22:54.933 But when you had the wage substy scheme in place, 0:22:55.053 --> 0:22:57.493 why on top of that did you need to print 0:22:57.493 --> 0:23:01.253 fifty billion bucks. So I think it's virtually criminal what 0:23:01.333 --> 0:23:04.053 the Reserve Bank did. We already had one of the 0:23:04.053 --> 0:23:07.573 world's largest fiscal expansions and to put on top of 0:23:07.613 --> 0:23:10.453 that one of the world just monetary expansion. 0:23:10.573 --> 0:23:14.453 So at the time, with all the limited power I have. 0:23:14.693 --> 0:23:18.213 Which is doing things like your show, I was arguing 0:23:18.373 --> 0:23:20.373 one should not do that monetary expansion. 0:23:20.373 --> 0:23:23.053 What did it do? It blew up inflation. 0:23:23.893 --> 0:23:27.293 And then the Reserve Bank governor said well, we have 0:23:27.733 --> 0:23:31.013 to now engineer recession to get the inflation I created 0:23:31.093 --> 0:23:33.653 back down again. He actually got that wrong as well. 0:23:33.693 --> 0:23:36.093 He did an engineer recession. It looks like he's engineered 0:23:36.093 --> 0:23:40.493 three recessions, and so he threw the country into a 0:23:40.533 --> 0:23:43.893 cost of living crisis as people struggled to pay their mortgages. 0:23:43.933 --> 0:23:47.253 So I think that was a fundamental mistake that was made. 0:23:47.893 --> 0:23:49.973 Do you do shopping as in food. 0:23:50.213 --> 0:23:51.653 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:23:51.733 --> 0:23:56.973 Were you constantly aware of the increase in the bill 0:23:57.053 --> 0:23:58.973 that you had to pay every time you went shopping? 0:23:59.853 --> 0:24:02.853 Oh, of course, of course. I mean, you know, I 0:24:02.933 --> 0:24:06.373 have three children, of course we can. It's just astronomical. 0:24:06.653 --> 0:24:12.653 The ow food bill is probably you know, higher than 0:24:12.733 --> 0:24:16.013 the average wage in the in the in the country. 0:24:17.013 --> 0:24:18.493 It's just just phenomenal. 0:24:18.933 --> 0:24:22.613 And you know that means, you know, to bring up 0:24:22.693 --> 0:24:25.853 children now just to pay the groceries, both parents have 0:24:25.973 --> 0:24:26.373 to work. 0:24:26.853 --> 0:24:27.293 You can't. 0:24:27.333 --> 0:24:29.773 You can't buy grocery bills in a million years in 0:24:29.813 --> 0:24:32.773 this country with one parent working on the average wage, 0:24:32.813 --> 0:24:37.813 you you can't. You can't afford food. So of course 0:24:37.853 --> 0:24:41.053 that was a Now on that topic, can you believe 0:24:41.093 --> 0:24:44.293 it that it's in the news every other day that 0:24:45.893 --> 0:24:50.533 we have this duopoly with the supermarkets. So what did 0:24:50.893 --> 0:24:55.333 Adarn do in her infinite wisdom during the lockdowns? He 0:24:55.493 --> 0:25:04.453 granted the duopoly, the monopoly enshrined in law that no 0:25:04.493 --> 0:25:08.053 one else in the country could sell food during the 0:25:08.053 --> 0:25:11.973 locko downs, only the two super big supermarket chains chain. 0:25:12.533 --> 0:25:14.373 So every small business. 0:25:14.573 --> 0:25:18.173 And grosser got wiped out and that was the law 0:25:18.213 --> 0:25:21.573 of the country. So that was another I think economic 0:25:21.653 --> 0:25:28.693 policy where a Dern and Hipkins and Robertson enshrined the 0:25:28.733 --> 0:25:31.453 power of monopolies in the economy. And I still don't 0:25:31.493 --> 0:25:32.573 think we pulled out of that. 0:25:35.493 --> 0:25:38.693 Do you think that that was just plain ignorance or 0:25:38.733 --> 0:25:45.493 did that did that deploy some shall we say socialist approach? 0:25:47.693 --> 0:25:51.733 Yes, I mean the ideology of socialism was there with 0:25:51.893 --> 0:25:56.293