WEBVTT - Maneesh Deva: How do help our kids handle stress?

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Weekend Collective Podcast from Newstalk ZB.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you hear me? Why again? It's been.

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<v Speaker 2>Three whole weeks since that I have left your home.

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<v Speaker 1>There's 75.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beveridge,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is the Parent Squad. And as you know, look,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, it's Newstalk ZB. We want your calls, 0800

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<v Speaker 2>80 1080, text 9292. You don't have to, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>trying to do this more regularly, and I've probably said

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<v Speaker 2>this a million times as well, but you don't have

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<v Speaker 2>to have the answer to the meaning of life to

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<v Speaker 2>give us a call. You just have to have a

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<v Speaker 2>reckon or a thought that you'd like to share with us,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's all part of the conversation. I remember, actually,

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<v Speaker 2>you'll remember the name Tim Dower, who worked at Newstalk

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<v Speaker 2>ZB for many years, and Tim actually gave me that

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<v Speaker 2>advice just as a broadcaster. He said, Tim, don't remember,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you're just joining, you're being part of the

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<v Speaker 2>conversation for a while, and then it moves on. Don't,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Don't tell yourself I'm not trying to give

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning, the middle, and the end. And that's what

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<v Speaker 2>my note for you would be. Don't forget, by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>we've got the sports wrap shortly before six with Sam

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<v Speaker 2>Sherry's joining us. But as I say, right now is

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<v Speaker 2>the Parent Squad, where we cover many things to do

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<v Speaker 2>with parenting. Want you to join us with your thoughts

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<v Speaker 2>and comments and experience, actually, on that magic number, 0800

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<v Speaker 2>80 1080. And today, we're going to have a chat

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<v Speaker 2>about stress, because stress is a given in life. And

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<v Speaker 2>one of the roles that we have as parents is

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<v Speaker 2>you want to protect your children from all sorts of

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<v Speaker 2>things that might frighten them or harm them or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>But there are stresses where you don't want them to

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<v Speaker 2>suddenly hit the age of 18 and that's the first

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<v Speaker 2>time they encounter stress, which obviously that's not the way

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<v Speaker 2>life works anyway. But how much should you protect your

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<v Speaker 2>children from stress, whether it's just to do with the

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<v Speaker 2>stress of running late for something or being overwhelmed with

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<v Speaker 2>a bit of homework or You know, not maybe feeling

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<v Speaker 2>you're as smart as the rest of the kids in

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<v Speaker 2>the class or you're not as good as that. There

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<v Speaker 2>are all sorts of stress that children can manage. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>you didn't get the position in the sports team you wanted.

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<v Speaker 2>Those are some of the stresses maybe you can't save

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<v Speaker 2>your kids from. But there are other issues. And just

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<v Speaker 2>before I introduced my guest, I was chatting with him

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<v Speaker 2>about when I first became aware of the idea that

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<v Speaker 2>life on Earth could finish with a nuclear war. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think I was about six years Six or seven,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd say. And that's my memory of it. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe it'll turn out I was 12 or something. But no,

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<v Speaker 2>I was definitely at primary school. And you know what?

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<v Speaker 2>I wish I hadn't been introduced to that fact and

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<v Speaker 2>information at that age because it probably stressed me out. Actually,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't say probably. I remember it because I remember

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<v Speaker 2>it stressing me out. So, you know, that was something

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<v Speaker 2>I found out at school. It wasn't something that mum

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<v Speaker 2>and dad told me about. They might not have been

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<v Speaker 2>very happy about that had they known. But are there stresses?

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<v Speaker 2>Of course there are stresses you should save your children from.

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<v Speaker 2>But when do you start letting them get exposed to disappointment?

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<v Speaker 2>So we're going to explore that idea on 0800 80

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<v Speaker 2>1080 text 9292. And with us for the parent squad today,

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<v Speaker 2>that's enough from me, he is, well, he's a regular.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we can call him a regular now. He's

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<v Speaker 2>a pediatrician. Originally, we got him on the show because

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<v Speaker 2>he's very passionate about devices and which does tie into stress,

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<v Speaker 2>and his name is Manish Deva. And Manish... Kia ora. Hi.

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<v Speaker 3>Nice to see you, Tim.

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<v Speaker 1>You too.

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<v Speaker 2>You're looking bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. What have you been up

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<v Speaker 2>to today? Sort of, you're asleep or something?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the Auckland weather has kept us on our toes today.

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<v Speaker 3>It's been raining, then not raining, then raining. So the

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<v Speaker 3>washing's been in and out. So that's about my stress today.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, good. Well, that sounds like an appropriate Saturday. Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>do you actually... Is six years old too young to

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<v Speaker 2>learn about the possible end of the world?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I was just thinking, you are obviously quite a

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<v Speaker 3>worldly six-year-old to get that concept and that kind of idea.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think that there are world events, and you think,

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<v Speaker 3>as a parent, is this kind of too much information?

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<v Speaker 3>And is this not enough information? Should they know about this?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, as the six o'clock news comes on, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>and I know that they are very careful with warnings

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<v Speaker 2>these days, you know, caution, there's some distressing images.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but you know the old adage, if it bleeds,

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<v Speaker 3>it leads, and you certainly do see that at 6 o'clock.

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<v Speaker 3>And what we've done in our household is try to

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<v Speaker 3>watch the breakfast show a bit more so it's a

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<v Speaker 3>bit more offset with a bit more positive local stories.

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<v Speaker 3>But it is difficult as a parent because you're now

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<v Speaker 3>connected to the whole world and things can break very

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<v Speaker 3>quickly and sometimes you're not even sure what's true and

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<v Speaker 3>it becomes news.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Actually, I was just thinking we had those– the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of what stresses kids out is, is interesting because actually, um,

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<v Speaker 2>I sometimes wonder that when kids are, their imaginations are

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<v Speaker 2>not that well developed. For instance, the images we had

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<v Speaker 2>out of that terrible, um, flash flood in Nepal. Um,

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<v Speaker 2>but children's minds see that. And I can, I can

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<v Speaker 2>imagine children watching that and being like, oh, that looks,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's all at a macro level. We're not seeing, um,

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<v Speaker 2>up close, um, loss of life and things. When you

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<v Speaker 2>see a great event of nature, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>that stresses kids out so much or because they look

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<v Speaker 2>at it from, oh, well, what happened there? Oh, well,

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<v Speaker 2>there was an earthquake or something, or there was a

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<v Speaker 2>glacier and all this water and look at the power

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<v Speaker 2>of nature. And I don't even know if some kids

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<v Speaker 2>would find that stressful. Whereas the adults, we look at

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<v Speaker 2>and go, oh my goodness, that's just.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of adults looked at

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<v Speaker 3>that and thought, oh my goodness, you know, imagine the

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<v Speaker 3>loss of life that you could just see straight away.

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<v Speaker 3>And there were people videoing it as well. So a

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<v Speaker 3>real friction of modern times that people are right close

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<v Speaker 3>to it. And you think, get out of there.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I think what I worry about, particularly with social media,

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<v Speaker 3>is there's a lot of desensitization to really violent stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And kids often get exposed to that. And some people

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<v Speaker 3>would argue maybe, oh, they're resilient. But I think what

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<v Speaker 3>you actually find is they're just being desensitized, particularly with violence.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of that filming, just people beating up people,

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<v Speaker 3>particularly in high school, that's just normal for them to

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<v Speaker 3>be exposed to. So I think we do have to

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<v Speaker 3>worry what kids just find as usual kind of information

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<v Speaker 3>on the internet, particularly when it comes to video. But

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<v Speaker 3>there is, you know, stress, as you say, it's inevitable.

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<v Speaker 3>It's part of life. And for kids, especially if parents

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<v Speaker 3>are thinking, what's the kind of, is this too stressful?

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<v Speaker 3>We want stress that's manageable, particularly for a young child

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<v Speaker 3>growing up. We want to think about that. I like

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<v Speaker 3>the analogy which a lot of sports coaches use as

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<v Speaker 3>that kind of rubber band. We do want to stretch

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<v Speaker 3>kids at times, but we want them to come back

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<v Speaker 3>to that natural state. We don't want to stretch them

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<v Speaker 3>so much that they snap or they're confused, they're disorientated,

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<v Speaker 3>they're unsure, they're timid. We want to build that superpower

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<v Speaker 3>we call resilience.

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<v Speaker 2>It's funny because with kids, with children, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>use that word interchangeably to the annoyance of some of

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<v Speaker 2>my listeners, but Sometimes it can be the most trivial

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<v Speaker 2>things that really max a child out, such as, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>not getting their favourite sandwich in their lunch would be the,

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<v Speaker 2>because that's their whole world. It's like, I'm looking forward

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<v Speaker 2>to lunch. Oh, I hate these.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Not sure that's stress you need to protect your kids from.

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<v Speaker 2>That's all about building a bit of resilience that life

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't turn. I don't know. As opposed to they might

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<v Speaker 2>see a photo of a nuclear explosion and go, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>what's that in the distance? That's a pretty cloud.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a few things there. I think one of them

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<v Speaker 3>is that there is a natural parenting thing where we think, well,

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<v Speaker 3>this is not a big deal for this child, my

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<v Speaker 3>first child. Why is it suddenly such a big deal

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<v Speaker 3>for this child? And every child will be different. So

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<v Speaker 3>what worked for one may well not work for the

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<v Speaker 3>second one. The other thing you mentioned, your intro, which

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<v Speaker 3>was quite interestingly, you made the point that you can't

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<v Speaker 3>always save them from stress. And I would probably put

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<v Speaker 3>the question, should you always save them from stress? Just

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<v Speaker 3>because you can do it as a parent, So the

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<v Speaker 3>classic example, which a lot of listeners might think about

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<v Speaker 3>is say, your kids have gone off to school and

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<v Speaker 3>you find their lunch there. What do you do? Do

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<v Speaker 3>you rush back into school and say, oh, little Jimmy's

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<v Speaker 3>forgotten his lunch? Or do you just say, hang on,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe he's just going to forget his lunch today and

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<v Speaker 3>he's going to think about that. And I think in the- Oh, that's.

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<v Speaker 2>An interesting one. Because I would be like, I would stress.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd be like, oh, and they're not going to be,

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<v Speaker 2>then they're going to have a bad day because they

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<v Speaker 2>won't have the blood sugar level or be out of

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<v Speaker 2>whack and I would stress, but anyway.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so what do you think about the blood sugar

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<v Speaker 3>level if they didn't quite get their sandwich?

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<v Speaker 2>I think when they get hungry, they're grumpy and it's

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<v Speaker 2>all downhill from there because I know what I'm like.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, I mean, it's a thing, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, we better ask your producer if you've got your

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<v Speaker 3>lunch here because we don't want any meltdowns. We don't

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<v Speaker 3>want any live examples. But that is an example where

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<v Speaker 3>I think the modern parent, there is this compulsion to

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<v Speaker 3>go in and save the moment. and not let kids

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<v Speaker 3>experience that. And a lot of those little moments are

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<v Speaker 3>actually where growth happens. That's where it's pretty safe, actually.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's where they can develop that resilience.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think also, if you look at people who

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<v Speaker 2>are successful in life and business and things, they haven't

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<v Speaker 2>been insulated from disappointment. I often think that I would

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<v Speaker 2>worry if everything came easy to my children and they

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<v Speaker 2>were smart and athletic and they made the top teams

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<v Speaker 2>and got the top grades, I would worry that there's

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<v Speaker 2>a big shock coming at some stage in life. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you want them to do well, but is there a

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<v Speaker 2>point where if your kids are, if you do have

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<v Speaker 2>a talented sort of bulletproof child who seems to just

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<v Speaker 2>rock on with everything. I mean, do you want to

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<v Speaker 2>manufacture some disappointment for them?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, I think you shouldn't have a goal as

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<v Speaker 3>a parent of just keeping everything happy. Happy, happy, happy.

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<v Speaker 3>Was that party happy? Did you feel happy? All these

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<v Speaker 3>questions I hear parents ask kids all the time. It's

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of pressure on the kids as well. I

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<v Speaker 3>think you probably want to frame it of how's their well-being,

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<v Speaker 3>which is that more longitudinal view. And less worry about

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<v Speaker 3>the result and more worry about the kid's response to that.

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<v Speaker 3>So if they do take a loss, say it's on

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<v Speaker 3>the sporting field, how did they respond to that? Or

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<v Speaker 3>how did you respond to that as a parent?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Because there is a few.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's a big choice, isn't it? Because if you've

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<v Speaker 2>responded badly.

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<v Speaker 3>Usually the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. So

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<v Speaker 3>if dad's up there giving the ref a lot of heat,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, how does that message to the kids? And

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<v Speaker 3>you probably remember from your own parenting days, Kids just

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<v Speaker 3>copy their parents at the start. They do mimicry. So

0:11:22.391 --> 0:11:24.011
<v Speaker 3>if you're mowing the lawns, they kind of want to

0:11:24.031 --> 0:11:27.831
<v Speaker 3>mow the lawns. And that really continues. And people, I think,

0:11:28.031 --> 0:11:32.161
<v Speaker 3>underappreciate that kids really look for adult figures, parent figures,

0:11:32.361 --> 0:11:35.001
<v Speaker 3>and see, well, that's what they do when something doesn't

0:11:35.041 --> 0:11:37.401
<v Speaker 3>go right. That's what I should do. So that's something

0:11:37.441 --> 0:11:40.561
<v Speaker 3>a parent can really control, their own responses, their own emotions.

0:11:40.701 --> 0:11:42.701
<v Speaker 2>I used to, if I'd go and watch netball, and

0:11:43.271 --> 0:11:44.951
<v Speaker 2>you want your children to do well, but you do

0:11:45.011 --> 0:11:47.561
<v Speaker 2>get vested in it. I would literally, and this is,

0:11:47.861 --> 0:11:49.421
<v Speaker 2>I think this is a good thing I did this,

0:11:49.821 --> 0:11:51.991
<v Speaker 2>but if I found myself getting too stressed, I would

0:11:52.061 --> 0:11:54.351
<v Speaker 2>literally have to turn my back on the action and

0:11:54.671 --> 0:11:57.371
<v Speaker 2>do something else for a second just to disengage because

0:11:57.431 --> 0:12:00.351
<v Speaker 2>I knew that I wasn't one of those parents, but

0:12:00.411 --> 0:12:02.831
<v Speaker 2>I stopped being one of those parents by going, this

0:12:02.891 --> 0:12:04.291
<v Speaker 2>is stressing me out too much. I think I need

0:12:04.311 --> 0:12:07.961
<v Speaker 2>to turn around and I'll just see what's going on

0:12:08.001 --> 0:12:08.841
<v Speaker 2>on the other horizon.

0:12:09.541 --> 0:12:12.741
<v Speaker 3>Oh, that is so sweet. And I think if Auckland

0:12:12.781 --> 0:12:15.241
<v Speaker 3>Netball could bottle that, they would like to see other

0:12:15.281 --> 0:12:19.021
<v Speaker 3>parents take that opportunity. But unfortunately, that is not always

0:12:19.061 --> 0:12:22.561
<v Speaker 3>the case. Parents don't do that. And a lot of

0:12:22.601 --> 0:12:24.201
<v Speaker 3>kids will say, look, I don't want you to come

0:12:24.221 --> 0:12:26.381
<v Speaker 3>into the game. And then I think that's a good

0:12:26.441 --> 0:12:28.871
<v Speaker 3>reflection for a parent. Like, why is that?

0:12:29.491 --> 0:12:33.431
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. In fact, yeah. I mean, then you can be

0:12:33.471 --> 0:12:36.871
<v Speaker 2>too enthusiastic. There's the two cheering too loudly. And I

0:12:37.051 --> 0:12:39.091
<v Speaker 2>used to make a thing of cheering quite loudly. I

0:12:39.151 --> 0:12:41.431
<v Speaker 2>just couldn't help it. And there comes an age where

0:12:41.491 --> 0:12:43.851
<v Speaker 2>they love it initially and then it's like, oh, no, Dad,

0:12:43.891 --> 0:12:44.701
<v Speaker 2>can you just keep it?

0:12:47.981 --> 0:12:50.241
<v Speaker 3>It suddenly becomes very uncool.

0:12:50.681 --> 0:12:52.541
<v Speaker 2>I've forgotten where we were going with that conversation.

0:12:52.561 --> 0:12:55.581
<v Speaker 3>I've lost it. I think that you're right. Stress is

0:12:56.101 --> 0:12:59.391
<v Speaker 3>part of everyday life. It's part of the human existence.

0:12:59.801 --> 0:13:02.071
<v Speaker 3>But you want to think about stress, particularly for your kids,

0:13:02.511 --> 0:13:04.751
<v Speaker 3>that it's manageable. You don't want to put them in

0:13:04.811 --> 0:13:08.551
<v Speaker 3>really unsafe situations anymore. And where does that happen? Well,

0:13:08.691 --> 0:13:11.741
<v Speaker 3>in my experience as a clinician, a lot of that

0:13:11.781 --> 0:13:16.301
<v Speaker 3>is happening online where it's completely unregulated. Oh, yeah.

0:13:16.421 --> 0:13:18.261
<v Speaker 2>We're never far from this conversation, are we?

0:13:18.381 --> 0:13:23.541
<v Speaker 3>No, no. Because I think what's happened is, unfortunately, the

0:13:23.641 --> 0:13:27.351
<v Speaker 3>offline risk, like being outside, we've thought that's really risky.

0:13:27.911 --> 0:13:29.891
<v Speaker 3>And the online risk, where there does seem to be

0:13:29.931 --> 0:13:33.331
<v Speaker 3>a lot of consistent escalating risk, we seem to just

0:13:33.351 --> 0:13:37.441
<v Speaker 3>have sleepwalked into that. So it seems like we've moved

0:13:37.461 --> 0:13:41.041
<v Speaker 3>to that online childhood experience when really we know that

0:13:41.201 --> 0:13:42.541
<v Speaker 3>offline is what works for them.

0:13:42.881 --> 0:13:45.941
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I'm also remembering another time, and this is about

0:13:48.841 --> 0:13:53.631
<v Speaker 2>children look at whatever a scene is and whether there's

0:13:53.671 --> 0:13:56.631
<v Speaker 2>a traumatic scene. Children look at it through their own

0:13:56.691 --> 0:14:01.031
<v Speaker 2>lens differently to an adult. So the other memory I've got,

0:14:01.051 --> 0:14:02.591
<v Speaker 2>and I'd be curious to know your take on this,

0:14:03.491 --> 0:14:07.191
<v Speaker 2>I have a very quite a vivid memory of driving

0:14:07.971 --> 0:14:11.451
<v Speaker 2>north from Rotorua, which is where I grew up, through Mamaku.

0:14:12.471 --> 0:14:17.801
<v Speaker 2>And there was a fatal accident. And I'm not going to,

0:14:18.121 --> 0:14:21.301
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't pretty. There were people who were lying on

0:14:21.321 --> 0:14:24.721
<v Speaker 2>the road. And I guess in hindsight, they were not alive.

0:14:25.581 --> 0:14:28.901
<v Speaker 2>And we drove past it slowly because you couldn't, it

0:14:28.941 --> 0:14:32.131
<v Speaker 2>was literally, it must have been controlled the same. I

0:14:32.191 --> 0:14:34.501
<v Speaker 2>don't recall that stressing me out at all. Cause I

0:14:34.561 --> 0:14:36.661
<v Speaker 2>didn't really comprehend what I was looking at because I

0:14:36.701 --> 0:14:39.081
<v Speaker 2>was probably three or four years old, but I remember

0:14:39.121 --> 0:14:44.081
<v Speaker 2>seeing an accident and people and cars, but my mind

0:14:44.121 --> 0:14:47.641
<v Speaker 2>wasn't capable of recognizing the tragedy because I was just

0:14:47.681 --> 0:14:51.221
<v Speaker 2>looking at images that I couldn't comprehend. And I don't know,

0:14:51.241 --> 0:14:53.961
<v Speaker 2>it's a long time ago. I don't know what my

0:14:54.021 --> 0:14:56.981
<v Speaker 2>parents said or did or anything, or whether they just

0:14:57.041 --> 0:14:59.061
<v Speaker 2>tried to get, get past and say, Hey kids, look

0:14:59.101 --> 0:15:01.541
<v Speaker 2>over there. And as in terms of look at the

0:15:01.581 --> 0:15:02.541
<v Speaker 2>other side of the car.

0:15:02.601 --> 0:15:02.721
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:15:03.631 --> 0:15:07.671
<v Speaker 2>But is there something in that that if you're worried about,

0:15:07.731 --> 0:15:11.431
<v Speaker 2>if you're thinking your child's seeing things through Manisha's eyes

0:15:11.551 --> 0:15:16.211
<v Speaker 2>and intellect, maybe they're not. Is there some built-in protection

0:15:16.281 --> 0:15:18.221
<v Speaker 2>in the child's naivety that they simply don't know what

0:15:18.241 --> 0:15:18.741
<v Speaker 2>they're looking at?

0:15:19.181 --> 0:15:21.081
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think there is a bit. Everyone's at their

0:15:21.161 --> 0:15:23.441
<v Speaker 3>age and stage and what's on their agenda and what

0:15:23.461 --> 0:15:26.481
<v Speaker 3>they're looking for. But I would probably, if we go

0:15:26.521 --> 0:15:29.621
<v Speaker 3>back to three- or four-year-old Tim and said, if your

0:15:29.701 --> 0:15:32.801
<v Speaker 3>parent or parents freaked out at that moment.

0:15:33.701 --> 0:15:35.941
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember there being any conversation in the car.

0:15:36.041 --> 0:15:40.111
<v Speaker 2>I think we just drove on quietly. And all I

0:15:40.171 --> 0:15:43.411
<v Speaker 2>had was an image of something that I remembered it

0:15:43.571 --> 0:15:46.811
<v Speaker 2>because I had never seen anything like that. But I

0:15:47.171 --> 0:15:50.451
<v Speaker 2>didn't associate anything with it at the time.

0:15:50.771 --> 0:15:53.681
<v Speaker 3>Because I think that's what transfers really well is when

0:15:53.721 --> 0:15:56.441
<v Speaker 3>you attach an emotion, particularly when it's a scary emotion

0:15:56.481 --> 0:15:58.401
<v Speaker 3>for a kid. So like you say, the kid who

0:15:58.421 --> 0:16:01.561
<v Speaker 3>doesn't quite get the peanut butter jelly sandwich, The parent

0:16:01.601 --> 0:16:04.321
<v Speaker 3>who makes a big deal about that in front of

0:16:04.341 --> 0:16:08.721
<v Speaker 3>the cafeteria, that really goes into your biological memory because

0:16:08.741 --> 0:16:10.961
<v Speaker 3>you think, wow, this is something that I need to

0:16:11.001 --> 0:16:15.301
<v Speaker 3>get agitated about. It's scary. But I guess everyone in

0:16:15.341 --> 0:16:17.481
<v Speaker 3>their different day jobs have things that you think, well,

0:16:17.501 --> 0:16:19.801
<v Speaker 3>this is quite dramatic. But if you're in your day-to-day,

0:16:19.821 --> 0:16:22.081
<v Speaker 3>you think, well, this is not so dramatic.

0:16:22.131 --> 0:16:24.411
<v Speaker 2>It's a good note for parents, isn't it? Because I

0:16:24.451 --> 0:16:25.911
<v Speaker 2>don't know how many of us would actually think I

0:16:25.951 --> 0:16:28.011
<v Speaker 2>need to think about how I react to this, but...

0:16:29.101 --> 0:16:31.641
<v Speaker 2>What it sounds like you're saying is like you should

0:16:31.741 --> 0:16:33.901
<v Speaker 2>always be aware of how you're reacting because your children

0:16:33.941 --> 0:16:34.661
<v Speaker 2>are taking notes.

0:16:35.241 --> 0:16:38.631
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely. And in so many dimensions. I mean, if you

0:16:38.671 --> 0:16:41.611
<v Speaker 3>think I want to be the best parent I can,

0:16:41.671 --> 0:16:43.931
<v Speaker 3>you have to get yourself in order. You have to

0:16:43.971 --> 0:16:46.091
<v Speaker 3>calm yourself if that's the thing you need to do.

0:16:46.751 --> 0:16:49.951
<v Speaker 3>Whatever that be, not only to model it for your child,

0:16:50.511 --> 0:16:53.051
<v Speaker 3>but that next one to two hours, if you're kind

0:16:53.111 --> 0:16:56.731
<v Speaker 3>of feeling, you know, pretty dysregulated, you need to find

0:16:56.771 --> 0:16:59.071
<v Speaker 3>ways to kind of check that. whether it's going for

0:16:59.111 --> 0:17:01.871
<v Speaker 3>a breathing exercise, going for a 10-minute walk by yourself,

0:17:02.291 --> 0:17:04.271
<v Speaker 3>the payoff will probably be the next two hours of

0:17:04.311 --> 0:17:06.711
<v Speaker 3>the evening. And a lot of parents are doing it

0:17:06.761 --> 0:17:09.101
<v Speaker 3>tough because there's a lot of expectation on both parents working.

0:17:09.531 --> 0:17:12.201
<v Speaker 3>Kids have got lots of activities, so people are really exhausted.

0:17:12.261 --> 0:17:14.421
<v Speaker 3>So I think parents do have to be a lot

0:17:14.461 --> 0:17:18.441
<v Speaker 3>more mindful about this than they previously were. Particularly there's

0:17:18.461 --> 0:17:22.541
<v Speaker 3>an expectation kids are always supervised and there's kind of

0:17:22.581 --> 0:17:25.901
<v Speaker 3>a one-to-one adult custodian of care always transferred now.

0:17:25.921 --> 0:17:26.241
<v Speaker 1>Hmm.

0:17:26.621 --> 0:17:28.781
<v Speaker 3>So I think it is much more challenging for parents

0:17:28.841 --> 0:17:32.281
<v Speaker 3>to figure out themselves before they look after their kids

0:17:32.341 --> 0:17:32.701
<v Speaker 3>as well.

0:17:33.721 --> 0:17:35.021
<v Speaker 2>We'd love your calls if you want to share us

0:17:35.041 --> 0:17:38.801
<v Speaker 2>your thoughts on this, on how you, you know, whether

0:17:38.821 --> 0:17:42.781
<v Speaker 2>you actually worry about protecting your children from various stressful scenarios,

0:17:43.321 --> 0:17:45.301
<v Speaker 2>or is it more as it seems to be that

0:17:45.441 --> 0:17:48.071
<v Speaker 2>maybe the answer is how you react to whatever scenario.

0:17:49.351 --> 0:17:50.931
<v Speaker 2>So we'll dig into that a bit more straight after

0:17:50.951 --> 0:17:52.331
<v Speaker 2>the break, but we'll take your calls if you'd like

0:17:52.351 --> 0:17:53.931
<v Speaker 2>to share your thoughts with us on 0800 80 1080

0:17:53.931 --> 0:17:59.421
<v Speaker 2>text And as I say, Manish Deva, he's a pediatrician.

0:18:00.281 --> 0:18:02.631
<v Speaker 2>Funny enough, we never really talk about medical things with Manish, but,

0:18:03.351 --> 0:18:05.971
<v Speaker 2>you know, because he's hot on some other stuff as

0:18:05.991 --> 0:18:09.091
<v Speaker 2>well we can talk about. But 0800 8010 80 is

0:18:09.111 --> 0:18:12.531
<v Speaker 2>the number. Text 9292. We'll be back on our tickets.

0:18:12.531 --> 0:18:17.741
<v Speaker 2>24 past five. News Talk ZB, we're with Manish Deva,

0:18:18.201 --> 0:18:21.581
<v Speaker 2>and we're talking about helping your children deal with stress

0:18:21.841 --> 0:18:24.131
<v Speaker 2>in life. And, you know, so far we've got to,

0:18:24.141 --> 0:18:25.581
<v Speaker 2>I think, with Manish, and tell me if I'm wrong,

0:18:25.621 --> 0:18:28.181
<v Speaker 2>is One of the first lessons is the example you

0:18:28.221 --> 0:18:33.961
<v Speaker 2>set in response to anything that's traumatic or, well, traumatic

0:18:33.981 --> 0:18:34.821
<v Speaker 2>or stressful, I guess.

0:18:35.461 --> 0:18:38.601
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I mean, I think stress is this all-encompassing term,

0:18:38.661 --> 0:18:41.681
<v Speaker 3>and people talk about good stress and kind of unhelpful stress.

0:18:42.271 --> 0:18:44.491
<v Speaker 3>And as a parent, you probably want to lean into

0:18:44.531 --> 0:18:47.171
<v Speaker 3>those moments where you think, well, this is actually kind

0:18:47.191 --> 0:18:47.811
<v Speaker 3>of good stress.

0:18:47.951 --> 0:18:48.691
<v Speaker 2>What's good stress?

0:18:48.891 --> 0:18:52.371
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think those manageable moments. And you might think, well,

0:18:52.411 --> 0:18:56.361
<v Speaker 3>what does that mean? I would start really, really small.

0:18:56.521 --> 0:18:58.861
<v Speaker 3>And I think probably second to last time I was

0:18:58.901 --> 0:19:01.701
<v Speaker 3>on here, we talked about that task of giving a

0:19:01.781 --> 0:19:04.591
<v Speaker 3>child the responsibility of going to the dairy and buying milk.

0:19:05.471 --> 0:19:08.591
<v Speaker 3>Now that seems very straightforward, but what an uplift. I

0:19:08.651 --> 0:19:10.451
<v Speaker 3>think a lot of us can remember the first time

0:19:10.491 --> 0:19:12.511
<v Speaker 3>we did that. And when you pay it forward and

0:19:12.671 --> 0:19:14.831
<v Speaker 3>ask a child that first time, hey, do you want

0:19:14.851 --> 0:19:17.231
<v Speaker 3>to go get the milk? Here's the money. And you

0:19:17.251 --> 0:19:19.591
<v Speaker 3>can see their shoulders kind of relax and their heads

0:19:19.611 --> 0:19:22.351
<v Speaker 3>sort of lift up a bit. And it's a great moment.

0:19:22.951 --> 0:19:24.911
<v Speaker 3>And as a parent, I think you just always got

0:19:24.931 --> 0:19:27.391
<v Speaker 3>to look for those moments because they're out there.

0:19:27.531 --> 0:19:30.581
<v Speaker 2>You've mentioned something that's actually for most parents quite monumental

0:19:30.641 --> 0:19:34.021
<v Speaker 2>because we live in such a protected, you know, sending

0:19:34.061 --> 0:19:36.401
<v Speaker 2>your child down to the shops in a busy city

0:19:36.901 --> 0:19:39.261
<v Speaker 2>is the last thing parents want their children to do.

0:19:39.281 --> 0:19:41.241
<v Speaker 2>It's like, no, no, you're not going down to the shops.

0:19:41.401 --> 0:19:43.601
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing it. Yeah.

0:19:43.861 --> 0:19:46.421
<v Speaker 3>And that does little, it breaks my heart a little

0:19:46.441 --> 0:19:50.051
<v Speaker 3>bit when parents intervene on those moments and say, And

0:19:50.231 --> 0:19:52.681
<v Speaker 3>often parents will insert their emotions like, you know, we'll

0:19:52.701 --> 0:19:55.851
<v Speaker 3>have a sports game and it'll start raining. and they'll

0:19:55.891 --> 0:19:58.671
<v Speaker 3>come to and they'll say oh you poor things and

0:19:58.691 --> 0:20:01.141
<v Speaker 3>the kids if you didn't if you didn't say anything

0:20:01.181 --> 0:20:03.241
<v Speaker 3>they'll say that was the best game ever we loved

0:20:03.301 --> 0:20:05.401
<v Speaker 3>being in the mud we loved when it rained we

0:20:05.441 --> 0:20:07.741
<v Speaker 3>loved the noise we loved the wind they're not worried

0:20:07.781 --> 0:20:10.631
<v Speaker 3>about getting sick they're just out there playing So those

0:20:10.771 --> 0:20:13.231
<v Speaker 3>moments you've just got to protect because those are the

0:20:13.341 --> 0:20:14.341
<v Speaker 3>ones that are real gold.

0:20:14.621 --> 0:20:16.381
<v Speaker 2>I must admit, I was surprised the other day. My

0:20:16.401 --> 0:20:18.321
<v Speaker 2>daughter was playing something and it was getting a bit

0:20:18.361 --> 0:20:21.361
<v Speaker 2>wet and they just didn't seem bothered by it. I mean,

0:20:21.401 --> 0:20:23.741
<v Speaker 2>I was wrapped up like it was, you know, a

0:20:23.801 --> 0:20:27.411
<v Speaker 2>polar blast or something. Actually, that is a difficult one

0:20:27.431 --> 0:20:31.961
<v Speaker 2>though because the whole– What sort of world we live

0:20:32.001 --> 0:20:34.361
<v Speaker 2>in and how safe it is. Look, when I was

0:20:34.401 --> 0:20:37.101
<v Speaker 2>growing up in Rotorua, of course, I still remember. I

0:20:37.101 --> 0:20:39.361
<v Speaker 2>never called it down at the shops. It was down

0:20:39.381 --> 0:20:43.401
<v Speaker 2>at Mr Lee's. And I never used to think twice

0:20:43.441 --> 0:20:46.091
<v Speaker 2>about walking down there or something. I'm not sure when

0:20:46.131 --> 0:20:47.631
<v Speaker 2>I was allowed to. I don't have a memory of

0:20:47.911 --> 0:20:49.671
<v Speaker 2>when that was forbidden.

0:20:50.051 --> 0:20:51.871
<v Speaker 3>Well, we don't want to get you in trouble here, Tim.

0:20:52.071 --> 0:20:55.311
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I think those are harder moments for parents

0:20:55.371 --> 0:20:58.211
<v Speaker 3>to sign on to nowadays. So that's why I'm really

0:20:58.271 --> 0:21:01.731
<v Speaker 3>passionate about looking for those moments, like giving kids those

0:21:01.821 --> 0:21:04.801
<v Speaker 3>little moments of responsibility. One that I think a lot

0:21:04.841 --> 0:21:08.361
<v Speaker 3>of families could easily do, I'll often give one of

0:21:08.461 --> 0:21:11.601
<v Speaker 3>my kids the responsibility of saying thank you to where

0:21:11.641 --> 0:21:13.961
<v Speaker 3>we are. Say, on behalf of our family, you need

0:21:13.981 --> 0:21:16.201
<v Speaker 3>to say thank you, whether it's to a restaurant or

0:21:16.221 --> 0:21:20.571
<v Speaker 3>the cafeteria. It's sort of a cost-free move. There's no

0:21:20.611 --> 0:21:22.451
<v Speaker 3>way to do it wrong. It's just the fact, hey,

0:21:22.491 --> 0:21:24.771
<v Speaker 3>you did it. And that's a really important thing to do.

0:21:25.341 --> 0:21:28.101
<v Speaker 2>Gosh, now it's making me feel badly that I didn't

0:21:28.121 --> 0:21:30.691
<v Speaker 2>get my kids, because I'm always, well, I speak a

0:21:30.701 --> 0:21:36.091
<v Speaker 2>lot for a living, so they're like, oh, Dad's talking again. Oh, no. Okay,

0:21:36.151 --> 0:21:44.831
<v Speaker 2>but are children naturally hardwired to, just in a social situation? Again,

0:21:45.011 --> 0:21:47.411
<v Speaker 2>I've got one daughter who's not so shy, and the

0:21:47.451 --> 0:21:50.081
<v Speaker 2>other one who is shy. Is that a learned thing

0:21:50.161 --> 0:21:51.921
<v Speaker 2>or a nature nurture sort of thing?

0:21:52.161 --> 0:21:54.311
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's why I like the apple falling from the

0:21:54.351 --> 0:21:57.751
<v Speaker 3>tree example. Whether you're a genetics person or an environment person,

0:21:58.251 --> 0:22:01.031
<v Speaker 3>you know, they often reflect what's around them and their

0:22:01.171 --> 0:22:04.531
<v Speaker 3>parents and other siblings. But they all, all of us,

0:22:04.901 --> 0:22:09.101
<v Speaker 3>unrepeatable miracles of the universe. And that's sometimes quite hard,

0:22:09.161 --> 0:22:12.321
<v Speaker 3>particularly where you've got quite a high achieving family and

0:22:12.361 --> 0:22:15.751
<v Speaker 3>the expectations on other siblings. And so that's something you

0:22:15.791 --> 0:22:18.161
<v Speaker 3>often have to debunk, you know, a little bit.

0:22:18.271 --> 0:22:20.541
<v Speaker 2>How would you deal with it? So I've got one daughter,

0:22:20.581 --> 0:22:22.721
<v Speaker 2>if I said, you know, oh, well, look, they'd be

0:22:22.761 --> 0:22:25.301
<v Speaker 2>fine now, they're a bit older. But, you know, going

0:22:25.341 --> 0:22:27.641
<v Speaker 2>back a few years, if I gave them the, said, right,

0:22:27.661 --> 0:22:29.761
<v Speaker 2>you're going to say thanks or say, you know, goodbye

0:22:29.781 --> 0:22:32.251
<v Speaker 2>to everyone, one would be fine. The other one would be,

0:22:32.331 --> 0:22:35.291
<v Speaker 2>would probably have caused, you know, a bit of a meltdown.

0:22:35.751 --> 0:22:37.071
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, interesting.

0:22:38.351 --> 0:22:41.191
<v Speaker 2>So what do you, yeah, I mean, because that's, it's

0:22:41.211 --> 0:22:44.121
<v Speaker 2>a fairly safe environment, but to them it's like, You know, stress,

0:22:44.781 --> 0:22:47.241
<v Speaker 2>shyness is like an existential stress.

0:22:48.261 --> 0:22:50.641
<v Speaker 3>Oh, absolutely. For a lot of people, that's their number

0:22:50.701 --> 0:22:55.471
<v Speaker 3>one fear is public speaking. Exactly. And especially having such

0:22:55.491 --> 0:22:58.031
<v Speaker 3>a well-spoken father, you know, they might be able to

0:22:58.051 --> 0:23:01.871
<v Speaker 3>live up to it. But what I want to get across,

0:23:01.911 --> 0:23:04.851
<v Speaker 3>it's not really an example. We're all on a spectrum

0:23:04.891 --> 0:23:05.651
<v Speaker 3>of different things.

0:23:06.031 --> 0:23:08.631
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, what I mean is, are you stressing your

0:23:08.671 --> 0:23:10.351
<v Speaker 2>child out if they're shy to make them doing it?

0:23:10.391 --> 0:23:12.271
<v Speaker 2>Is that a stress you should not inflict on them

0:23:12.311 --> 0:23:16.001
<v Speaker 2>if they're really shy? really going to be a mess.

0:23:16.421 --> 0:23:17.761
<v Speaker 3>This is the juicy bit.

0:23:18.001 --> 0:23:18.181
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:23:18.201 --> 0:23:22.181
<v Speaker 3>And this is the, this is the complete age old

0:23:22.341 --> 0:23:25.381
<v Speaker 3>millennial challenge of being a parent. And you want to

0:23:25.421 --> 0:23:28.421
<v Speaker 3>be in tune with your child. You want to get

0:23:28.441 --> 0:23:30.851
<v Speaker 3>that in tune. Now you're not going to be perfect.

0:23:31.091 --> 0:23:31.311
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:23:31.451 --> 0:23:34.471
<v Speaker 3>Newsflash. There's no perfect parent. They never will be.

0:23:34.491 --> 0:23:34.931
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:23:35.111 --> 0:23:37.091
<v Speaker 3>But you probably want to think, I want to get

0:23:37.151 --> 0:23:40.921
<v Speaker 3>things right about 80% of the time, but 20%, I'm

0:23:40.931 --> 0:23:43.061
<v Speaker 3>going to get wrong and I'm happy to take that risk,

0:23:43.081 --> 0:23:44.481
<v Speaker 3>but it might be worth it for them to have

0:23:44.501 --> 0:23:47.021
<v Speaker 3>a little growing moment. Now, what you want to do

0:23:47.081 --> 0:23:49.741
<v Speaker 3>is make sure they have this kind of unconditional love

0:23:49.801 --> 0:23:53.021
<v Speaker 3>environment afterwards, even if it doesn't go well. It's not

0:23:53.041 --> 0:23:55.391
<v Speaker 3>really the result you're looking for. It's the kind of

0:23:55.441 --> 0:23:59.451
<v Speaker 3>response afterwards. So, I mean, find those little moments. They

0:23:59.471 --> 0:24:02.471
<v Speaker 3>can be really tiny moments, particularly for young kids. They

0:24:02.511 --> 0:24:05.991
<v Speaker 3>love doing jobs. And if you're out of inspiration, walk

0:24:06.051 --> 0:24:10.621
<v Speaker 3>into any primary school. Teachers are doing this constantly. There's

0:24:10.701 --> 0:24:13.901
<v Speaker 3>book monitors. There's lunch monitors. There are kids who sit

0:24:13.941 --> 0:24:15.481
<v Speaker 3>up in front of the class. There are kids who

0:24:15.521 --> 0:24:19.141
<v Speaker 3>put their hands up really quickly. You see so much

0:24:19.281 --> 0:24:21.911
<v Speaker 3>great developmental work happening in schools. And if you're a

0:24:21.961 --> 0:24:24.231
<v Speaker 3>parent going, I have no idea what to do. I'm

0:24:24.271 --> 0:24:27.011
<v Speaker 3>really worried I'm going to overwhelm. Talk with your teacher

0:24:27.031 --> 0:24:30.371
<v Speaker 3>because that's another person who's really invested in the well-being

0:24:30.571 --> 0:24:32.891
<v Speaker 3>of your child. And they know a lot about your child.

0:24:33.311 --> 0:24:35.951
<v Speaker 3>And they've seen thousands of kids at the same age

0:24:35.971 --> 0:24:36.351
<v Speaker 3>and stage.

0:24:37.801 --> 0:24:39.241
<v Speaker 2>So I want to get back to, I'm just going

0:24:39.361 --> 0:24:41.661
<v Speaker 2>to ask that. So what would you do with the

0:24:41.681 --> 0:24:44.681
<v Speaker 2>child who's petrified of any public speaking? How would you?

0:24:45.341 --> 0:24:47.941
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, I mean, I think you would probably, you know,

0:24:48.001 --> 0:24:50.981
<v Speaker 3>depending on how old they are, you might go, well,

0:24:51.091 --> 0:24:54.551
<v Speaker 3>this is not my life. This is not my life

0:24:54.631 --> 0:24:57.591
<v Speaker 3>goal for this child. This doesn't really align. It's not

0:24:57.631 --> 0:24:59.771
<v Speaker 3>a big deal for our family, you know.

0:24:59.991 --> 0:25:01.851
<v Speaker 2>So you don't force it on them. No. You just

0:25:01.911 --> 0:25:03.791
<v Speaker 2>give them opportunities for responsibility.

0:25:03.811 --> 0:25:03.871
<v Speaker 1>No.

0:25:04.031 --> 0:25:05.971
<v Speaker 2>With a gentle encouragement, like, are you sure you don't

0:25:06.011 --> 0:25:08.181
<v Speaker 2>want to? But don't go, you're doing this. Your sister

0:25:08.201 --> 0:25:09.481
<v Speaker 2>did it before that. It's your turn.

0:25:09.801 --> 0:25:11.381
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, if they're a bit older, you want

0:25:11.401 --> 0:25:14.181
<v Speaker 3>to align to their natural interests because their personality is

0:25:14.201 --> 0:25:16.561
<v Speaker 3>going to be driving it a little bit. And, you know,

0:25:16.981 --> 0:25:19.441
<v Speaker 3>most kids have pretty clear interests as they get older.

0:25:19.481 --> 0:25:21.131
<v Speaker 3>And so if you can align to that, that makes

0:25:21.161 --> 0:25:23.631
<v Speaker 3>it all the much more easier and more fun for them.

0:25:24.031 --> 0:25:27.111
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. A couple of texts. I'll refer to a couple

0:25:27.131 --> 0:25:28.311
<v Speaker 2>of texts. By the way, you're welcome to give us

0:25:28.351 --> 0:25:31.011
<v Speaker 2>a call on any of these issues to do with

0:25:31.711 --> 0:25:34.891
<v Speaker 2>helping your children deal with stress and your approach to it.

0:25:35.541 --> 0:25:38.461
<v Speaker 2>Because actually, along the part of this conversation, I'm getting

0:25:38.481 --> 0:25:41.501
<v Speaker 2>into this sort of feeling that there's sort of nothing

0:25:41.541 --> 0:25:42.781
<v Speaker 2>that kids can't cope with.

0:25:43.151 --> 0:25:43.651
<v Speaker 3>They're amazing.

0:25:44.071 --> 0:25:48.191
<v Speaker 2>So in a way, I'm starting to reach the conclusion

0:25:48.231 --> 0:25:50.351
<v Speaker 2>that kids can deal with anything. I mean, I dealt

0:25:50.371 --> 0:25:52.611
<v Speaker 2>with worrying about nuclear war, but because I had a

0:25:52.651 --> 0:25:54.551
<v Speaker 2>loving home environment and I wasn't dwelling on it all

0:25:54.591 --> 0:25:55.931
<v Speaker 2>the time. Yeah.

0:25:56.451 --> 0:26:01.661
<v Speaker 3>Kids continually surpass our expectations. I mean, there was probably

0:26:01.821 --> 0:26:05.151
<v Speaker 3>a very famous case of you would have, covered here

0:26:05.191 --> 0:26:09.011
<v Speaker 3>in the news of that boy and his family went

0:26:09.101 --> 0:26:12.081
<v Speaker 3>out on a kayak in Perth and he had to

0:26:12.141 --> 0:26:13.461
<v Speaker 3>swim back to save the family.

0:26:13.521 --> 0:26:16.221
<v Speaker 2>That is a phenomenal story, isn't it?

0:26:16.481 --> 0:26:20.061
<v Speaker 3>It's just, it's amazing what kids can do. And if

0:26:20.281 --> 0:26:23.121
<v Speaker 3>you would have seen the interview afterwards, he talked about

0:26:23.161 --> 0:26:25.761
<v Speaker 3>it so blandly and calmly, like he just had to

0:26:25.781 --> 0:26:28.981
<v Speaker 3>do it. There was no other option. And so kids

0:26:29.081 --> 0:26:31.081
<v Speaker 3>continually amaze me how they can do that.

0:26:32.061 --> 0:26:36.371
<v Speaker 2>Funny thing is I think stress is, That's interesting. Just

0:26:36.391 --> 0:26:39.431
<v Speaker 2>from a psychological point of view, that I think that

0:26:39.471 --> 0:26:43.051
<v Speaker 2>the biggest stress that people can be exposed to in

0:26:43.091 --> 0:26:46.651
<v Speaker 2>life usually results from indecision. But when you realize there's

0:26:46.911 --> 0:26:50.251
<v Speaker 2>only one course of action, there's a certain clarity that,

0:26:50.611 --> 0:26:52.191
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean? When you think, well, this

0:26:52.251 --> 0:26:53.831
<v Speaker 2>is the only thing we can do. I think the

0:26:53.891 --> 0:26:56.191
<v Speaker 2>worst thing is uncertainty. What should we do? What should

0:26:56.211 --> 0:26:57.371
<v Speaker 2>we do? Should we do this or should we not?

0:26:57.691 --> 0:26:58.951
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. It's very meta.

0:26:58.971 --> 0:27:02.161
<v Speaker 2>And for him, once he'd accepted, I have to do this,

0:27:02.721 --> 0:27:05.821
<v Speaker 2>there was no, should I? It's just, That is an

0:27:05.881 --> 0:27:08.411
<v Speaker 2>amazing story, isn't it? What was he, 13 or something?

0:27:08.521 --> 0:27:10.651
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think even younger than that. But I think

0:27:11.311 --> 0:27:14.071
<v Speaker 3>you do touch on a point. There is this positive

0:27:14.131 --> 0:27:17.331
<v Speaker 3>feedback that stress actually causes more stress, particularly for parents.

0:27:18.011 --> 0:27:22.901
<v Speaker 3>They may stress 10 different opinions about a thing when

0:27:22.961 --> 0:27:25.821
<v Speaker 3>actually it becomes about the stress of the thing rather

0:27:25.861 --> 0:27:28.321
<v Speaker 3>than the thing. You know, should we put them on

0:27:28.361 --> 0:27:31.361
<v Speaker 3>a tricycle? Are they too old or too young? Are

0:27:31.401 --> 0:27:32.871
<v Speaker 3>they going to do it? Are they going to scrape

0:27:32.891 --> 0:27:35.361
<v Speaker 3>their knee? And then, you know, you might get an

0:27:35.431 --> 0:27:37.011
<v Speaker 3>uncle just say, hey, we put him on a truck

0:27:37.081 --> 0:27:37.691
<v Speaker 3>and he went fine.

0:27:39.661 --> 0:27:41.541
<v Speaker 2>I bet you there are plenty of people. It's like,

0:27:41.801 --> 0:27:43.321
<v Speaker 2>I forgot to tell you, don't put him on. Oh,

0:27:43.361 --> 0:27:45.981
<v Speaker 2>you did already. And how did it go? Oh, okay.

0:27:46.421 --> 0:27:48.981
<v Speaker 3>So shout out to grandparents because I think they've probably

0:27:49.021 --> 0:27:51.321
<v Speaker 3>given the first solids to many a baby, the first

0:27:51.481 --> 0:27:53.761
<v Speaker 3>ice creams, the first lollies. And a lot of those

0:27:53.801 --> 0:27:57.711
<v Speaker 3>kids have survived. So grandparents are a great source of this. Oh,

0:27:57.721 --> 0:27:58.671
<v Speaker 3>we just did it anyway.

0:27:58.851 --> 0:28:00.971
<v Speaker 2>Actually, it's funny. One of my daughters will be of

0:28:00.991 --> 0:28:02.851
<v Speaker 2>an age to learn to drive soon, and I'm like, oh,

0:28:02.851 --> 0:28:05.931
<v Speaker 2>I'm not looking forward to that. And my brother's forgotten

0:28:06.291 --> 0:28:11.541
<v Speaker 2>that he casually offered, because he's on Waiheke. He says, oh,

0:28:11.921 --> 0:28:15.781
<v Speaker 2>I'll offer it to her. And he's forgotten that promise,

0:28:16.341 --> 0:28:18.121
<v Speaker 2>because I mentioned it to him, because she was saying

0:28:18.141 --> 0:28:19.721
<v Speaker 2>to me, oh, John's going to teach me to drive.

0:28:19.741 --> 0:28:23.071
<v Speaker 2>I was like, is he? Yeah. And so.

0:28:23.581 --> 0:28:24.381
<v Speaker 3>We'll cash that in.

0:28:24.581 --> 0:28:26.921
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to cash that one in. Anyway, we're going

0:28:26.941 --> 0:28:29.901
<v Speaker 2>to come back with more of a chat with Manish.

0:28:29.921 --> 0:28:33.361
<v Speaker 2>We're going to talk about one of the obvious sources

0:28:33.381 --> 0:28:37.181
<v Speaker 2>of stress or sadness and how to deal with grief

0:28:37.761 --> 0:28:40.211
<v Speaker 2>when your child's first experience of grief. And I think

0:28:40.251 --> 0:28:43.111
<v Speaker 2>we all have a memory of our first experience of grief.

0:28:44.071 --> 0:28:46.231
<v Speaker 2>So we'll have a chat about that after this. It is,

0:28:46.951 --> 0:28:49.291
<v Speaker 2>and don't forget, we've got Sam Sherry to wrap sport

0:28:49.371 --> 0:28:52.371
<v Speaker 2>shortly before six as well. It's 22 minutes to six. Yes,

0:28:52.391 --> 0:28:54.851
<v Speaker 2>welcome back. News Talks EP. Actually, look at some of

0:28:54.871 --> 0:28:57.651
<v Speaker 2>the texts that have come in first with Manish Deva.

0:28:58.751 --> 0:29:00.951
<v Speaker 2>Sue says, hi, Tim. I had the scenario with my

0:29:00.971 --> 0:29:03.421
<v Speaker 2>daughter forgetting her school lunch. Oh, this is a member about,

0:29:03.471 --> 0:29:05.881
<v Speaker 2>you know, do you let them forget their lunch? And

0:29:05.921 --> 0:29:09.121
<v Speaker 2>I didn't take it down to school. Unfortunately, the teacher

0:29:09.181 --> 0:29:12.561
<v Speaker 2>told me I had to. That was about 38 years ago.

0:29:12.581 --> 0:29:18.701
<v Speaker 2>So actually, you almost would wonder. It's like, oh, you'd

0:29:18.721 --> 0:29:19.981
<v Speaker 2>get a call from the school, wouldn't you?

0:29:20.741 --> 0:29:22.331
<v Speaker 3>That's quite a mean teacher, I would have thought. I

0:29:22.371 --> 0:29:24.331
<v Speaker 3>don't know the age and stage of the child.

0:29:24.411 --> 0:29:28.331
<v Speaker 2>But- I'm assuming it's primary school. I don't know why

0:29:28.351 --> 0:29:29.051
<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming that.

0:29:29.471 --> 0:29:31.331
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm assuming primary school, but you know.

0:29:31.351 --> 0:29:34.511
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I believe, here's another one. Sarah Jane says, and

0:29:34.651 --> 0:29:37.031
<v Speaker 2>this is an interesting one, I genuinely believe that no

0:29:37.111 --> 0:29:40.491
<v Speaker 2>child is shy, but that when children shy away from

0:29:40.551 --> 0:29:43.251
<v Speaker 2>a situation, adults make an excuse and tell them they're shy.

0:29:43.751 --> 0:29:45.641
<v Speaker 2>What I think they're doing is that they're actually just

0:29:45.701 --> 0:29:47.301
<v Speaker 2>working out who you are and whether this is a

0:29:47.301 --> 0:29:49.881
<v Speaker 2>safe environment to talk in realistically, whether they feel comfortable

0:29:49.901 --> 0:29:52.881
<v Speaker 2>in an environment, and then they're just being actually their

0:29:52.921 --> 0:29:55.161
<v Speaker 2>true self. So they're not, I mean, shyness is an

0:29:55.181 --> 0:29:56.001
<v Speaker 2>interesting one, isn't it?

0:29:56.321 --> 0:29:59.981
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I think there's a lot of cultural factors, particularly,

0:30:00.131 --> 0:30:03.011
<v Speaker 3>you know, some, you know, you notice the differences, particularly

0:30:03.111 --> 0:30:08.221
<v Speaker 3>multicultural places like Auckland. Some cultures, they really reward that,

0:30:08.321 --> 0:30:10.661
<v Speaker 3>being the person who puts up their hand or says

0:30:10.701 --> 0:30:13.791
<v Speaker 3>something on behalf of anything. And some cultures, it's really

0:30:13.871 --> 0:30:17.651
<v Speaker 3>rewarded for being humble and being quiet and not having

0:30:17.671 --> 0:30:19.631
<v Speaker 3>so much eye contact. So I think there's a lot

0:30:19.671 --> 0:30:22.791
<v Speaker 3>of cultural overlay there. And I usually don't deal with absolutes,

0:30:23.211 --> 0:30:25.611
<v Speaker 3>but I think a lot of kids, we're all programmed

0:30:25.631 --> 0:30:28.101
<v Speaker 3>to have that kind of fight or flight or what's

0:30:28.141 --> 0:30:30.721
<v Speaker 3>going on, sussing things out. And that's where you as

0:30:30.781 --> 0:30:34.781
<v Speaker 3>a parent can be really helpful because If you're very

0:30:34.861 --> 0:30:37.501
<v Speaker 3>calm in a hospital setting, your child's likely to be calm.

0:30:38.141 --> 0:30:40.421
<v Speaker 3>If you're very freaked out, your child is likely to

0:30:40.461 --> 0:30:41.101
<v Speaker 3>be freaked out.

0:30:42.061 --> 0:30:44.281
<v Speaker 2>Got a text here saying, yeah, going to the shops

0:30:44.341 --> 0:30:47.181
<v Speaker 2>at eight was for the ice cream. Otherwise, I would

0:30:47.221 --> 0:30:48.721
<v Speaker 2>eat the middle of the bread on the way back.

0:30:49.381 --> 0:30:52.421
<v Speaker 2>I've had the two... I don't know what.

0:30:52.331 --> 0:30:55.051
<v Speaker 3>That's about, but it's... Is that a euphemism? I don't

0:30:55.091 --> 0:30:55.751
<v Speaker 3>quite understand.

0:30:56.071 --> 0:30:58.191
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no. Eat the middle of the bread. It

0:30:58.211 --> 0:31:01.441
<v Speaker 2>was like the soft bit. Yeah, no, the soft bit

0:31:01.461 --> 0:31:03.201
<v Speaker 2>in the middle. You'd tear it apart and eat the middle.

0:31:03.261 --> 0:31:04.341
<v Speaker 3>And then put it back together.

0:31:05.861 --> 0:31:08.061
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, I've had a couple of messages about eating the

0:31:08.081 --> 0:31:09.481
<v Speaker 2>middle of the bread on the way back, unless there's

0:31:09.501 --> 0:31:13.651
<v Speaker 2>something I'm missing on that. Now, look, let's just, before

0:31:13.661 --> 0:31:19.971
<v Speaker 2>we wrap up, the grief thing, because you cannot, somebody

0:31:20.071 --> 0:31:23.491
<v Speaker 2>close to a child has passed away. Uh, I had

0:31:23.531 --> 0:31:26.351
<v Speaker 2>it when I was 10, um, my favorite uncle. And

0:31:26.411 --> 0:31:29.511
<v Speaker 2>I remember that being probably the most grief I've ever

0:31:29.651 --> 0:31:32.801
<v Speaker 2>felt just about because it was my first time. Um,

0:31:33.301 --> 0:31:35.041
<v Speaker 2>and I'm not sure if there was any shielding me

0:31:35.081 --> 0:31:38.241
<v Speaker 2>from that. Yeah. And my parents gently, I don't think

0:31:38.261 --> 0:31:41.521
<v Speaker 2>they knew how upset I'd be. Uh, but anyway, well,

0:31:41.541 --> 0:31:42.781
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what's, what are your, what.

0:31:42.681 --> 0:31:46.551
<v Speaker 3>Are your thoughts on grief? Well, for the parents, I mean,

0:31:46.871 --> 0:31:48.411
<v Speaker 3>the hurt is there cause you love them.

0:31:48.651 --> 0:31:48.751
<v Speaker 1>Hmm.

0:31:49.511 --> 0:31:51.611
<v Speaker 3>And if you didn't love them, you probably wouldn't have

0:31:51.631 --> 0:31:55.351
<v Speaker 3>that hurt. So that's an important thing to reflect. And

0:31:55.371 --> 0:31:58.191
<v Speaker 3>I think the important thing with kids is to be

0:31:58.231 --> 0:32:02.581
<v Speaker 3>honest and to use quite concrete language, particularly for young children.

0:32:02.641 --> 0:32:06.821
<v Speaker 3>If you say someone's passed away or they've gone, you know,

0:32:06.861 --> 0:32:08.781
<v Speaker 3>they might think, oh, that's like in a fairy tale.

0:32:08.821 --> 0:32:11.361
<v Speaker 3>They can come back. And that can be really confusing.

0:32:12.101 --> 0:32:15.301
<v Speaker 3>I think also if you're in a space where you

0:32:15.401 --> 0:32:17.961
<v Speaker 3>really want to strive for your parent, you know, in

0:32:18.001 --> 0:32:21.671
<v Speaker 3>your parenting role, to kind of role model behavior, that's

0:32:21.931 --> 0:32:25.951
<v Speaker 3>an incredible moment to show your own feelings to your child.

0:32:26.471 --> 0:32:29.071
<v Speaker 3>And they can handle a lot of that stuff. You know,

0:32:29.091 --> 0:32:30.991
<v Speaker 3>if you say, I was really sad when that happened,

0:32:31.751 --> 0:32:33.901
<v Speaker 3>that can be a really powerful moment to sit with

0:32:33.941 --> 0:32:36.041
<v Speaker 3>them and not try and intervene and make it happy

0:32:36.081 --> 0:32:38.401
<v Speaker 3>and distract them and say, well, this will go up

0:32:38.421 --> 0:32:41.261
<v Speaker 3>for ice cream because something really bad happened. So I

0:32:41.321 --> 0:32:44.201
<v Speaker 3>think you can really show that and kids are ready

0:32:44.241 --> 0:32:47.041
<v Speaker 3>for that. And it's not really as accepted, particularly for

0:32:47.081 --> 0:32:49.901
<v Speaker 3>males to show emotions and But they are there.

0:32:50.941 --> 0:32:55.951
<v Speaker 2>It's funny. I was at boarding school at the time, actually.

0:32:56.331 --> 0:32:59.651
<v Speaker 2>Mum and dad had waited until they were visiting for

0:32:59.691 --> 0:33:04.701
<v Speaker 2>a leave or something. And they told me sort of quietly.

0:33:05.621 --> 0:33:09.481
<v Speaker 2>And I thought I had to behave stoically. So I

0:33:09.561 --> 0:33:12.861
<v Speaker 2>actually received the news emotionlessly.

0:33:13.411 --> 0:33:13.551
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

0:33:13.781 --> 0:33:16.311
<v Speaker 2>And it was only later on that, you know, I

0:33:16.351 --> 0:33:19.551
<v Speaker 2>completely fell apart. And it was funny because I just

0:33:19.611 --> 0:33:21.771
<v Speaker 2>assumed that I should, I don't know what it was

0:33:21.811 --> 0:33:23.971
<v Speaker 2>about my upbringing that meant I thought I should shield

0:33:24.011 --> 0:33:25.691
<v Speaker 2>my feelings about it. Because mum and dad were very

0:33:25.731 --> 0:33:28.311
<v Speaker 2>compassionate about it. But I was like, thanks for letting

0:33:28.331 --> 0:33:31.301
<v Speaker 2>me know. Yeah. You know, at the age of 11,

0:33:31.301 --> 0:33:31.621
<v Speaker 2>I think.

0:33:31.941 --> 0:33:32.281
<v Speaker 3>Who knows?

0:33:32.341 --> 0:33:32.841
<v Speaker 2>Isn't it funny?

0:33:32.861 --> 0:33:34.861
<v Speaker 3>You might have watched a movie or something.

0:33:35.261 --> 0:33:35.701
<v Speaker 1>You know what?

0:33:35.721 --> 0:33:37.921
<v Speaker 2>It might have been something where we'd learnt that, you know,

0:33:38.501 --> 0:33:42.081
<v Speaker 2>people kept their cool in public. Yeah. It was funny.

0:33:43.211 --> 0:33:49.071
<v Speaker 3>Indiana Jones was big around that time And he was

0:33:49.111 --> 0:33:52.391
<v Speaker 3>the kind of ultra role model at that time And

0:33:52.471 --> 0:33:55.431
<v Speaker 3>so kids pick it up from all sorts But I

0:33:55.481 --> 0:33:57.461
<v Speaker 3>think your role as a parent is just so key

0:33:57.501 --> 0:34:00.641
<v Speaker 3>in those moments Particularly with the honesty factor.

0:34:00.781 --> 0:34:03.681
<v Speaker 2>So what's the message you would get across on that again?

0:34:03.741 --> 0:34:06.481
<v Speaker 2>So just don't try and sugarcoat it or euphemise your

0:34:06.501 --> 0:34:07.361
<v Speaker 2>way out of it Don't try.

0:34:07.281 --> 0:34:09.351
<v Speaker 3>And sugarcoat it If the feels are there, let the

0:34:09.411 --> 0:34:12.331
<v Speaker 3>feels come out It's not good bottling that stuff up

0:34:12.921 --> 0:34:14.821
<v Speaker 3>And a lot of kids are looking to you as

0:34:14.861 --> 0:34:16.081
<v Speaker 3>to how to deal with that.

0:34:16.741 --> 0:34:20.781
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I'm not sure if I've had to talk to

0:34:20.801 --> 0:34:22.841
<v Speaker 2>my kids about it. Oh, yes, of course I have.

0:34:23.821 --> 0:34:25.641
<v Speaker 2>In fact, I think that at the time, I mean,

0:34:25.681 --> 0:34:27.781
<v Speaker 2>it depends on the relationship and how young they are

0:34:27.801 --> 0:34:29.901
<v Speaker 2>because there's a certain age where they can't really comprehend

0:34:29.941 --> 0:34:36.621
<v Speaker 2>much anyway. So, yeah. Actually, I've completely lost what I

0:34:36.641 --> 0:34:38.821
<v Speaker 2>was going to. So, I mean, if we're going to

0:34:38.901 --> 0:34:42.871
<v Speaker 2>recap it really, I guess maybe I feel I've learned

0:34:43.091 --> 0:34:45.171
<v Speaker 2>most out of this, actually, this area myself, just in

0:34:45.211 --> 0:34:46.871
<v Speaker 2>terms of the way of dealing with stresses. It's just

0:34:46.911 --> 0:34:48.871
<v Speaker 2>the example you set in as to how you cope

0:34:48.911 --> 0:34:51.811
<v Speaker 2>with various stressful circumstances, which leads the way for your kids.

0:34:52.301 --> 0:34:55.341
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's one thing we haven't

0:34:55.701 --> 0:34:59.281
<v Speaker 3>really talked about. Some people can get really focused on

0:34:59.301 --> 0:35:02.981
<v Speaker 3>the peanut butter sandwich, which is this really stressful moment

0:35:03.001 --> 0:35:06.351
<v Speaker 3>where you're focused on something very quite small. it's always

0:35:06.451 --> 0:35:08.951
<v Speaker 3>useful to do things that make you feel small yourself.

0:35:09.171 --> 0:35:12.361
<v Speaker 3>Like go outside in nature and it's really humbling. And

0:35:12.381 --> 0:35:15.261
<v Speaker 3>that's often a way you can just move that stress

0:35:15.581 --> 0:35:18.601
<v Speaker 3>that the peanut butter jelly sandwich isn't the most important thing.

0:35:18.981 --> 0:35:20.651
<v Speaker 3>There are other things happening around us.

0:35:21.421 --> 0:35:23.041
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Hey, by the way, just quickly before we go,

0:35:23.081 --> 0:35:25.341
<v Speaker 2>because I know you're quite passionate about the social media

0:35:25.361 --> 0:35:28.501
<v Speaker 2>thing and phones and devices and things. Where are we

0:35:28.521 --> 0:35:31.331
<v Speaker 2>at with that in terms of what the government is

0:35:31.371 --> 0:35:34.031
<v Speaker 2>doing or proposing? It looks like there's a bipartisan approach here.

0:35:34.621 --> 0:35:36.961
<v Speaker 2>to it from Labour and National so it doesn't really

0:35:36.981 --> 0:35:38.841
<v Speaker 2>matter what the other parties think or where are we at?

0:35:39.321 --> 0:35:39.941
<v Speaker 2>Where are we at?

0:35:40.221 --> 0:35:42.961
<v Speaker 3>Mixed feelings I don't know how much I can contain

0:35:43.641 --> 0:35:45.781
<v Speaker 3>in this little thing but get the politicians in there

0:35:45.861 --> 0:35:48.221
<v Speaker 3>I think the stage has been set it's now time

0:35:48.241 --> 0:35:51.511
<v Speaker 3>to do something nobody is debating is there harm out

0:35:51.551 --> 0:35:55.571
<v Speaker 3>there everyone accepts it I mean the recent suit that

0:35:55.691 --> 0:35:58.231
<v Speaker 3>Facebook has pleaded their way out of for 18 billion

0:35:58.251 --> 0:36:01.631
<v Speaker 3>dollars is just going to entrench their position that they're

0:36:01.651 --> 0:36:03.671
<v Speaker 3>just going to say oh we'll turn it for safety

0:36:03.711 --> 0:36:06.021
<v Speaker 3>settings we'll turn them down Actually, I talked to the

0:36:06.081 --> 0:36:10.461
<v Speaker 3>chief whistleblower in that case, Arturo Beja, and he basically

0:36:10.521 --> 0:36:13.131
<v Speaker 3>quite plainly told us last year, Facebook are going to

0:36:13.171 --> 0:36:16.431
<v Speaker 3>announce a whole lot of changes, and when no one's looking,

0:36:16.471 --> 0:36:19.531
<v Speaker 3>they'll change the terms and services, and we'll be back

0:36:19.551 --> 0:36:20.091
<v Speaker 3>to the same thing.

0:36:20.111 --> 0:36:22.991
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think they're just absolute so-and-sos. I'm being very

0:36:23.051 --> 0:36:26.431
<v Speaker 2>polite with my language there. Anyway, we'll know that.

0:36:26.611 --> 0:36:31.141
<v Speaker 3>There's one thing I think maybe this audience might want

0:36:31.201 --> 0:36:34.281
<v Speaker 3>to wrestle with, is the fact that Facebook can say,

0:36:34.341 --> 0:36:37.781
<v Speaker 3>we can turn on age restrictions straight away. But then

0:36:37.841 --> 0:36:39.821
<v Speaker 3>if they want the government to do it, they say,

0:36:39.861 --> 0:36:42.721
<v Speaker 3>that's really impossible for us to do. So there's a

0:36:42.861 --> 0:36:45.081
<v Speaker 3>complete disconnect there, and we need to call them out

0:36:45.121 --> 0:36:45.321
<v Speaker 3>on that.

0:36:45.661 --> 0:36:48.721
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think we don't ever trust them either. Hey, Manish,

0:36:48.781 --> 0:36:50.681
<v Speaker 2>great to see you, mate. Thanks so much for coming

0:36:50.741 --> 0:36:51.801
<v Speaker 2>in today. I really appreciate it.

0:36:52.011 --> 0:36:52.371
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

0:36:52.751 --> 0:36:55.071
<v Speaker 2>Good stuff. We'll be back to Rapsport with Sam Sherry

0:36:55.091 --> 0:36:58.371
<v Speaker 2>in just a moment. It's 11 minutes to 6.

0:36:58.371 --> 0:37:00.151
<v Speaker 1>For more from The Weekend Collective, listen to.

0:37:03.661 --> 0:37:05.791
<v Speaker 1>Or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.