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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks be Time to.

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Speaker 2: Get a job with our clinical psychologist, Google Sutherland from

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Speaker 2: Umbrella Well Being Killder.

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Speaker 3: Google Sorder Jack. It was interesting you were talking about Shakespeare.

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Speaker 3: I was out with out with a group of friends

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Speaker 3: on Thursday night at the pub and people started quoting

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Speaker 3: Shakespeare at one another. It was quite a surreal experience from.

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Speaker 2: That's very sophisticated. Google, That's very no doubt you were

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Speaker 2: there just reeling off a few soliloquies yourself a few

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Speaker 2: hours about discontents, my gloriou summer by the Son.

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Speaker 3: You're doing a couple of my friends who got PhDs

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Speaker 3: in English literature, and it was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: this is quite We got this. Then we got the

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Speaker 3: swapping brisket recipes. A very interesting, very interesting evening that

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Speaker 3: was very pleasurable.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, Yeah, you've got you've got multiple friends with PhDs

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Speaker 2: and English literature.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. One used to lecture in the States and

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Speaker 3: has got one one of those high over achievers who

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Speaker 3: got a law degree and a PhD in English.

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Speaker 2: List it wasn't a bill English, doesn't. I don't think

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Speaker 2: he is a PhD isn't a billing study. English literature

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Speaker 2: could be wrong on me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a wonderful thing, to be perfectly honest,

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Speaker 3: and I look at those people in some sort of

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Speaker 3: envy and going, gosh, I wish I had that knowledge

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Speaker 3: of literature and books that you did. But there, oh,

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Speaker 3: very good.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I was saying before eleven o'clock this morning, if

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Speaker 2: you are going through a stressful period, one off, and

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Speaker 2: I'm speaking from personal experience here, one of, if not

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Speaker 2: the very first things to suffer is sleep. Right that

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Speaker 2: that almost is like the perfect barometer of stress, I reckon,

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Speaker 2: because if you are stressed, and you're anything like me,

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Speaker 2: you cannot get a good night's sleep.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely agree, and I've had the same

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Speaker 3: I've had a stressful period of last few weeks and

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Speaker 3: my sleep has been disrupted. One of my colleagues talks

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Speaker 3: about how sleep is the canary and the cold for

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Speaker 3: when things aren't going particularly well, and you're absolutely right,

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Speaker 3: it's one of the first signs you know that that

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Speaker 3: period either well, it seems to fall into sort of

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Speaker 3: three categories. Either you can't get to sleep when you

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Speaker 3: go to bed, or you wake up in the middle

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Speaker 3: of the night, or you wake up much earlier than

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Speaker 3: you want to. You know, you do to get up

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Speaker 3: at six or something, and you're awake at four thirty

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Speaker 3: and can't get back to sleep. So and very often

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Speaker 3: it's a symptom of stress. So it's it's annoying, but

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Speaker 3: it's also a good thing for people to pay attention

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Speaker 3: to and go, oh, yeah, something might be going on

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Speaker 3: for me.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, usually you can connect the dots right. Again,

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Speaker 2: speaking for a personal experience, if I'm stressed, I lie

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Speaker 2: in bed. Usually I can get to sleep, usually not always,

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Speaker 2: but then I wake up and I just can't. And

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Speaker 2: then I'm there, I cannot get back to sleep. I'm

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Speaker 2: sitting there tossing and turning, stealing over whatever it is

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Speaker 2: that I'm stressing about. So what are some really practical

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Speaker 2: tips on trying to manage that anxiety?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm the same. I sort of wake up. I've

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Speaker 3: been waking up at sort of three or three thirty

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Speaker 3: and trying to get back to sleep. Look, I think

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Speaker 3: particularly when that happens for somebody when they wake up

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Speaker 3: in the middle of the night like that, if you

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Speaker 3: haven't got back to sleep after about fifteen minutes. Then

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Speaker 3: you're not really falling anybody. You're probably not going back

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Speaker 3: to sleep. You're in a state of state of alertness.

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Speaker 3: So your brain's quite alert, and that's really not a

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Speaker 3: type your brain's not really able to go to sleep. So,

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Speaker 3: particularly for those people that wake up in the middle

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Speaker 3: of the night, a really good thing, a very useful thing,

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Speaker 3: if you can do it, is actually to get out

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Speaker 3: of bed. So get out of bed, keep warm, and

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Speaker 3: then go and do something. Two choices. You can don't

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Speaker 3: do something really boring, like I remember somebody saying, oh,

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Speaker 3: I go and do the ironing, and I was thinking, well,

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Speaker 3: that could have some dangerous consequences if you leave the

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Speaker 3: iron one, so do that. Or if you've got something

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Speaker 3: rushing around and around in your head, like I often do,

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Speaker 3: then get a pen and a piece of paper. Just

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Speaker 3: just don't worry about punctuational grammar or spelling anything like that.

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Speaker 3: Just write and write and write and write and write,

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Speaker 3: and basically trying. You're trying to write out what is

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Speaker 3: in your brain. And eventually, after twenty minutes or so,

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Speaker 3: you'll probably you'll probably get a bit you're writing will

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Speaker 3: slow down, and you'll be a bit tired and your

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Speaker 3: brain will be a bit exhausted, and then when you're

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Speaker 3: feeling tired, go back to sleep or try to go

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Speaker 3: back to sleep again. Right.

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Speaker 2: That's a good tip and really important to distinguish it there,

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Speaker 2: you say, with a pen and pad, a pen piece

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Speaker 2: of paper, as opposed to getting the laptop open and

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Speaker 2: having that the digital device open, right, because then you're

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Speaker 2: getting stimulated, then you're going on to trade me, then

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Speaker 2: you're doing all sorts of other things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. You're really trying to the method behind

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Speaker 3: the madness is you're trying to essentially kind of exhaust

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Speaker 3: your brain and externalize what is in your heads because

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Speaker 3: some of the reason that your brain is keeping you

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Speaker 3: awake is it's saying to you, Hey, this thing that

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Speaker 3: you're worried about is really important. Don't forget it. Don't

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Speaker 3: forget it, don't try and work it out. Try and

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Speaker 3: work it out. And if you've written it down on

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Speaker 3: a piece of paper, you can you can sort of

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Speaker 3: reassure your brain and say that it's all right, brain,

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Speaker 3: I've got that, we've written it down. I'll come back

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Speaker 3: to this in the morning, and you can sort of

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Speaker 3: mentally tell your brain that that's the case, and just

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Speaker 3: give it a little bit of peace. But you don't.

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Speaker 3: Don't go into your laptop. You'll get distracted or it'll

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Speaker 3: make you think more about work, which is possibly the

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Speaker 3: thing that's stressing you out in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, cool, that makes sense. Try to resist the

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Speaker 2: urge to sleep in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, putting aside weekends because you know, I think we

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Speaker 3: all like to have a bit of a sleep in

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Speaker 3: the weekends. But sleep is really looking to sleep will

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Speaker 3: do anything it can to get into a routine, and

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Speaker 3: it doesn't necessarily distinguish what's a good routine or a

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Speaker 3: bad routine. So you need to have some control over that.

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Speaker 3: So if your regular wake up time is whatever it is,

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Speaker 3: six thirty in the morning, even if you've had a

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Speaker 3: terrible night's sleep, try and stick to getting up at

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Speaker 3: six thirty in the morning or whatever you're talking rather

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Speaker 3: than sleeping in to try and catch up, because there's

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Speaker 3: sort of a knock on effect. If you then sleep

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Speaker 3: in for another hour, then when you come to go

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Speaker 3: to bed at night, you won't be tired for another hour,

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Speaker 3: and your whole cycle starts to get out of whack.

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Speaker 3: And it's really I know this is really tough because

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Speaker 3: it's you know, you've just perhaps got to sleep and

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Speaker 3: you're rousing yourself. But do try and keep into that

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Speaker 3: routine if it's all possible. It's way better for you

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Speaker 3: in the longer term.

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Speaker 2: Exactly the same thing applies for napping the afternoon, right,

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Speaker 2: you don't want to go too crazy even if you've

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Speaker 2: missed out on sleep the night before.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly the same thing. It's routine. I'm lucky enough

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Speaker 3: in the last probably three or four years, I've somehow

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Speaker 3: mastered the art of having a twenty minute nap in

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Speaker 3: the not at work works clear but during the weekend,

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Speaker 3: and honestly it's amazing. It's just sort of immediate refresh.

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Speaker 3: But if you it has to be about twenty minutes

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Speaker 3: or less. If it's longer, you'll get into your big

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Speaker 3: sleep side. Yeah, and rarely start to disrupt things so

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Speaker 3: that you can nap for twenty twenty minutes or let's

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Speaker 3: sit sit an alarm. But but don't do it for

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Speaker 3: any longer than that, even if your dog tired. Try

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Speaker 3: and keep your tiredness and your sleep for the for

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Speaker 3: the for the nighttime. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I have the problem with because I love a nap,

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Speaker 2: oh y goodness me, like the heaven knows no pleasing

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Speaker 2: like an afternoon nap. But my problem is that I

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Speaker 2: either can't get to sleep, or if I do, I

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Speaker 2: get into that long, you know, like I sleep for

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Speaker 2: a solid hour and then I wake up. And you know,

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Speaker 2: there's something about waking up from an afternoon nap that

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Speaker 2: is just so much ruder than waking up in the morning.

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Speaker 2: You always look, you always wake up, You got to

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Speaker 2: dry mouth, and you look terrible. It takes a bout

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Speaker 2: an hour just to get back into, you know, back

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Speaker 2: into the rhythm of your day. It's just I don't

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Speaker 2: know what it is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's and it's that terrible groggy feeling. And you've

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Speaker 3: probably interrupted that sleep cycle, so you've possibly come out

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Speaker 3: of sleep when you're in a sleep rather than in

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Speaker 3: your light like the stages of sleep. And that's and

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Speaker 3: so yeah, look, even if you just lie and have

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Speaker 3: a rest and set your alarm for twenty minutes or

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Speaker 3: twenty five minutes or so, that's probably okay. Even if

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Speaker 3: you don't sleep, but do try to resist the urge

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Speaker 3: to sleep on and on even though you want to.

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Speaker 3: And oh gosh, I really need to just try and

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Speaker 3: bank up your sleep for nighttime because that's where you

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Speaker 3: really want to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll appreciate it later on. Thank you so much,

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Speaker 2: Doogle great practical tips. As always, Googles I learned from

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Speaker 2: Umbrella Wellbeing.

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Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live

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Speaker 1: to news talks i'd be from nine am Saturday, or

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