1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: So there's some confusion over whether New Zealand will or 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: will not be sending twenty four billion dollars or thereabouts 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: to another country to plant trees in order for us 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: to be able to meet our climate targets. Nikola will 5 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: have set on Monday night. We're not doing it, but 6 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: the Climate Minister Simon Watts has said he's getting the 7 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: deals ready for us to be able to do it. 8 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: So to clear up that confusion, Simon Wats has to 9 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: agree to come in and talk to us about it. Hi, Simon, Hey, Heather, 10 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: great to be here. So, yeah, thank you for coming in. 11 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: So are you going to buy overseas carbon credits or not? 12 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: We're not going to be doing that this term heither. 13 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: I want to be really clear about that. As a government, 14 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: we have not made any decisions in regards to doing that, 15 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: and the reality is it's not something that's on policy 16 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: agenda this term of government. 17 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: Of course, it's not on your policy agenda this term 18 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: of government, because you don't twenty thirty doesn't happen this 19 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: term of government. Is it potentially next term. 20 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: The reality of what we've done is we've set up 21 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: options in regards to that, but we're focused on domestic options. 22 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: We have to and as Minister, I have to put 23 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: in place all of the options that again to give 24 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 2: us options in the future, but we don't necessarily need 25 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 2: to be able to deploy those options. 26 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: Okay, So if you are in government, when we fall 27 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: short of our target, which we will, will you buy 28 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: overseas country. 29 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: I can't commit to that because I can't commit to 30 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: where we're going to be in will It's just. 31 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: Said to us on Monday. No, we're not sending any 32 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 1: money overseas. 33 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: So why you're talking of what are we going to 34 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 2: do in twenty thirty two? Right? And I don't think 35 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 2: it's reasona thirty isn't it twenty thirty But you don't 36 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: actually know until where you are at until twenty thirty two, 37 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: So that's the timeline. I'm not making commitments around what 38 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: any government's time at that point. 39 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: The reason I want to know is because this is 40 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: one of the daftest ideas I've ever heard of my life, 41 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: where we have a country where we cannot afford to 42 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: properly build the need in a hospital, but you're telling 43 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: me that it is a potential possibility that we're going 44 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: to send maybe as much as twenty four billion dollars 45 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: to some Southeast Asian country to plant US trees. That's nutty. 46 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: We absolutely think that that is not a realistic policy 47 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: position for us as a government. So tell me to 48 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: do it. If you're the guy I might not be 49 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: the minister of twenty thirty two. 50 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: In twenty thirty two, would you do it. 51 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: I don't know where we're going to be at that 52 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: point in time. 53 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: Simon, you're blowing my mind. 54 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: No, I'm not. 55 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: We afford this well. 56 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: We don't know where we will be at that point. 57 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 2: And the reality is is I actually think I'm pretty optimistic. 58 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 2: We're doing and looking pretty good in terms of our 59 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 2: mission's reduction. So the thing this is a hypothetical conversation. 60 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: You're going to fall short. It is just not going 61 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: to happen that we're going to meet our target. And 62 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: here's why it's important to you is because you have 63 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: to start sending the money aside four years in advance, 64 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: don't you. 65 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: No, we don't. 66 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: It's not like that's how that recycle. 67 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: Not a liability, and you don't. You're not signing up 68 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: to sending money to some specific entity or enment. 69 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: It is a liability, is it. 70 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: No, it's not a liability, and that's why Treasury don't 71 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: have it on our books. It's not a liability be on. 72 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: Our books until twenty thirty if we choose to speak 73 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: that's correct either. 74 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: And that's why you know, as a government, we've been 75 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: clear we're not going to be looking at doing anything 76 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 2: like that. We don't think that that is sensible policy, 77 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: nor does it make any fiscal sense in the conducts 78 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: that we were at you. 79 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: And that's why why are you setting up the deals 80 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: and the mechanism, Because we have to do as. 81 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: A mechanism, make sure and be clear that we have 82 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: and are committed to our targets. So we have to 83 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: be able to ad No, we're setting up optionality. But 84 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: there is a difference between putting in place options and 85 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: using those options. And you know, from a government, we're 86 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,839 Speaker 2: saying that's not a policy position that we are going 87 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 2: to be exploring this term, and that means that that's 88 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: not on the table. 89 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: Then what you're doing is you're wasting your time because 90 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: this is not something using you can ever plausibly afford. 91 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: So setting up the deals and the mechanisms is playing 92 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: pretend to fool the rest of the world. 93 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 2: No, it's not. These climate agreements and cooperation agreements include 94 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: a wide range of initiatives. You know, we've just done 95 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: one with Iceland in regards to geotherm or These are 96 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: comprehensive agreements. They contain mechanisms and options around facilitating something 97 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: like this. But there is a whole lot of other 98 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 2: aspects that are part of those deal. 99 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: But you know what the other problem is is that 100 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: should you lose at some stage to Chippy and some 101 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: stage in the future, labor will be in and labor 102 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: may have some nutty hangers on like the Greens and 103 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: the Maldi Party, you are setting up the means for 104 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: them to be able to send tens of billions of 105 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: New Zealand dollars off to Thailand. 106 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: So look, I trust the New Zealand public to be, 107 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: you know, seend a clear signal around expectations of what 108 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: they think around future government. You know, for what we're doing. 109 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 2: We have no plans, nor policy decisions, nor cabinet decisions 110 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: in regards to progress on this. 111 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: Is there no alternative version of what's happening right now 112 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: where you simply say, I, Simon Watts think this is 113 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: such a nutty idea. I'm not going to set up 114 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: the deals. 115 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: There isn't a mechanism in order to do that. Countries, 116 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 2: in regards to their commitments around NDC are unanimous in 117 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: the way in which they commit to meeting those targets. 118 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: And they say and they commit that they intend to 119 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: meet them. And the reality is is we've got a 120 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 2: period of time between now and then, and we just 121 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: have to do our best efforts in regards for achieving it. 122 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: Lord above, I'm going to blame you Simon in twenty thirty. 123 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: Please don't like that. 124 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: I remember Simon Watts. I remember that guy. 125 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: No, well, I hope you remember me for better reasons 126 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: than that. 127 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: Though, to your credit, how good was that rmra form yesterday? 128 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 2: Really really good? And I tell you what heither. If 129 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: you think about where we can be in five years 130 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 2: from now, If you think about the r and A reform, 131 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: it's game changer. You think about getting rid of regional councils, 132 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: it's game change here. And by the way, rates capping 133 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: is coming. And I'll give you a bit more of 134 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: an update very soon. 135 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: Is that in the next week or. 136 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 2: Going to be before Christmas? So well, too long to work. 137 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: That's four weeks, isn't it okay? 138 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: Now? 139 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: Simon? So you kind of called my bluff because I 140 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: didn't think that you would be in today. I was 141 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: kind of like I was psyching myself up for next week. 142 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: But then you got into your car and what happened? 143 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 2: Well, I got into my car and the driver who 144 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 2: will remain nameless, said she was listening to you last 145 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: night and said you were not happy. And I thought, well, 146 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: I'm driving past your studio. What the hell I'm going 147 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 2: to come and knock on? Ill went to reception. I said, 148 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: it's Heather here and here you are. Here, we are, 149 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: we're on the mic. I'll tell you what. That is 150 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: a dedicated minister, and you know it's good to be 151 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: here to clear this issue up. 152 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: That Simon, you are a dedicated in the stand. I 153 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: really appreciate you coming in to talk to me. 154 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: Mate. 155 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Look after yourself, Simon, what's the 156 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: climate change Minister? For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, 157 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 158 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.