1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: So here we go again. The Finance Minister's written this 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: morning another letter to the supermarket's food stuff says pleaded 3 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: guilty as I'm sure you're aware to a couple of 4 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: breaches of inaccurate pricing. Woolworths is facing apparently similar charges. 5 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: Nicola Willis's with us a very good morning to you. 6 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 2: Good morning? 7 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: Are you the Finance minister who cried wolf? 8 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 2: No, I have the same basic expectation that every keyw 9 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: shopper has, which is some pretty basic things you have 10 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: to do under the law as a retailer. One is 11 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 2: make sure that the prices that you say on the 12 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 2: shelf are the prices that pay at the till. Our 13 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: supermarkets are some of the most sophisticated, well funded retailers 14 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 2: that there are. And the fact that in twenty twenty 15 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 2: five they are pleading guilty in the case of some 16 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: food stuff's North Island pack and Saves to not meeting 17 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: there's pricing obligations under the Fair Trading Act, to me 18 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: just isn't good enough and I shouldn't have to point 19 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 2: that out marketing. 20 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: No, you shouldn't. 21 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 2: I shouldn't be having to write a letter to say, 22 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: come on, guys, sort it out. 23 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: You are you leverage this? I mean, look, I'm not 24 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: defending the supermarkets, but I mean these are a very 25 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: complex business pricing a million different products. It doesn't excuse it, 26 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: but I'm just saying, this is not your main point. 27 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: Your main point is competition in the supermarket area. Are 28 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: you leveraging this sort of thing for your own political gain? 29 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 2: The reason I am doing this is because the supermarkets 30 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 2: have said to me again and again, and they've said 31 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: publicly that they do everything they can to be good 32 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 2: providers of a supermarket service. So when I see that 33 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 2: it doesn't look like that, I think I should call 34 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 2: it out because actually my responsibility under the Grocery Act 35 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: is to make sure that they're doing all of the 36 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: right things you'd expect of a competitive player and a 37 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: well functioning market. Now, this to me doesn't look right, 38 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: and so I am calling it out. And I think 39 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,559 Speaker 2: that you know, sunlight is great disinfectant, which is let's 40 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 2: talk about it. They can explain it. They can come 41 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: on your show and tell you why it's fine that 42 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: someone is paying a different price than they were told 43 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: they were going to pay. But I've said to them, look, 44 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: tell me what you're doing to sort it out, sort 45 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: it out quickly. And by the way, the fines under 46 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: the Fear Trading Act in New Zealand are a lot 47 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 2: lower than they are in Australia, and I've been advised 48 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: that it can be quite hard to do a prosecution 49 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: under our Fear Trading Act. So it's only sensible that 50 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 2: I look at that and say, well, do we need 51 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: to lift the fines to be more like other countries? 52 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 2: Do we need to make it easier to prosecute you 53 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: for breaches of them? 54 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: But it's these regulatory leaders you talk of in the letter. 55 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: You talk a lot of threats. Do you threaten too 56 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: much and act not enough? 57 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: No, It's been my experience in life that when you 58 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: give people an opportunity to fix things themselves before you 59 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 2: force them to do it, when they've got good intent, 60 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: they take that opportunity. And in this case, the surfermarkets 61 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: have set again and again, look, we've got good intent, 62 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 2: we're trying to do the right things. Don't come at 63 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: us with the red tape. And I said, okay, well 64 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: I'll meet you where you are and I will take 65 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: that approach. And so in this case I've set out 66 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: my concerns very clearly. I've just said basic things, Mike. 67 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 2: I've said, Look, make sure that you've got actually modern 68 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: technology shops so that there aren't these pricing discrepancies. Make 69 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: sure you've got a proper refund policy and advertise it. Now. 70 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: In will Worth case, the policy is meant to be 71 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: if you get overcharged, not only do you get a refund, 72 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 2: but you get to keep whatever it you were overcharged for. Well, 73 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 2: advertise that policy and everyone should have that policy. And 74 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: then a pretty basic thing, which is do some staff 75 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: training so that if someone makes a complaint about having 76 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: been overcharged, that there is actually a correction for that 77 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: overcharging for everyone else who might be impacted, not just 78 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: the individual. Right, simple stuff. 79 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: Yes, it is other matters. Are you aware of the 80 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: second leg of the farner or a scandal around professional 81 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: rugby this morning? 82 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: Look, I have only briefly read that piece this morning. 83 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: I have not been read on it. But at first blush, 84 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: there seem to be two things to me. One, sport 85 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: in New Zealand under the last government chose to give 86 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: that entity some loans. I don't know much about that. 87 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: But then second, it appears that the funer or a 88 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: Commissioning Agent SEE has been using its funds to sponsor 89 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: this rugby team. And for me, same question I have 90 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 2: of every social service provider, what is the impact for 91 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: the people whose lives that money is meant to improve? 92 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: Why are they allowed to do it? 93 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 2: Well, as I say, I have literally read that piece 94 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 2: this morning in real time, and I think you're asking 95 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: a very good question. 96 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: Why is Mary Pecker Rokawa Take still in work? And 97 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: this goes back to yesterday's scandal she's also involved with 98 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: with tama et Mari. Issues don't come to the foreign 99 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: mainstream political parties. Hence we need to spend more of 100 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: our taxpayers money convincing people to be on the Maori roll. 101 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: How does she hold a job down like that? 102 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 2: Well, in terms of yesterday's revelations, you'll be aware that 103 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: the Minister Forefundo Aura has asked immediately for an investigation 104 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: to happen into that, and so I'll await its findings. 105 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: Do we need an investigation into sponsoring professional rugby teams? 106 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: Oh? Look, certainly it was my plan to get on 107 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: the phone to come up attack of this morning and 108 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: say right, tell me about this. 109 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: Is he asleep at the wheel? 110 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: No, he is not. Actually, he's made pretty significant changes 111 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 2: to Farno Aura, which I think are going to strengthen 112 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 2: that program considerably, essentially putting much more of an emphasis 113 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 2: on demonstrating the outcomes that occur as a result of 114 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 2: those contracts in ways that are more evidence and data based. 115 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: Could we just join some dots for now, though, even 116 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: though you've just read the story, I only just read 117 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: it this morning as well, that the chances of the 118 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: Pacific community being materially, medically, financially, or in any other 119 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: way uplifted by the sponsorship of Moana Pacifica is zero. 120 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: We know it's zero, and yet they spent millions of 121 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: dollars on it. 122 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure that there are lots of people who 123 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: love Morena Pacifica. It's possible. It inspires some people to 124 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 2: play rugby and playing sport and doing stuff is healthy. 125 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: But I want to see Farno or A money resulting 126 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: in people in jobs, attending school, getting training, not ending 127 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 2: up in court, getting their kids immunized, having less family violence. 128 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 2: All of the things we know cost individuals, families, and society. 129 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: But here's a problem. We're going to help, Yes, they are, 130 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: here's your problem. Politically. You said you get rid of 131 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: this race based nonsense, and you haven't. You're a year 132 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: and a half and we're still uncovering this. This is 133 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: a scheme. 134 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: Well, Mike, here's the thing. Here is an organization which 135 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: in that article it is revealed has been receiving funds 136 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: and we found out about how they are using this. 137 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: So this is a few steps removed immediately from the minister. 138 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: There is now informations needs to be dealt with properly. 139 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 2: But as the thing is, we're eighteen months in. We 140 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 2: haven't turned every rock over yet, and I guarantee you 141 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: there is going to be more stuff like this because 142 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: the last lot. We're absolutely spraying the money hose around Nicola. 143 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: At some point, my patient, look, my patient's running is 144 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: starting to run thin on this this whole let's blame 145 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: the previous government is wearing thin. You've had a year 146 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: and a half. There are millions of dollars at stake 147 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: in a country that has no money, and this is 148 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: this is a joke and you're doing the old well, 149 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: the last government fire hose line. How about you own 150 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: some of this and do something about it. 151 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: Well, if this was a direct decision by a government agency. 152 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 2: I take your point. Actually, this is a step removed. 153 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: I read about it in the paper today. Test us 154 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: Mike on how we react to it and what the 155 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: next steps are. We've just found out today. 156 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: All right, appreciate time. Nicola willis so what. I don't 157 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: know what hat she was wearing on that senior government 158 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: minister in charge of wasting our money. 159 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 160 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:46,559 Speaker 2: news Talks. 161 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 162 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.