1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Gilda. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. There's no 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: better way to unwind at the end of a long 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 2: day of work than binging on reality TV. From the 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: Bloc to Celebrity Treasure Island, Kiwis have always had a 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: soft spot. 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 3: For the genre. 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 2: Right now, the country is obsessed with Married at First 10 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 2: Sight New Zealand, back for its fourth season after a 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 2: five year hiatus, and while we may still be mad 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: about the genre, a lot has changed for reality TV 13 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: since the local version of the international hit debuted in 14 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. Today on the Front Page, aut University senior 15 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: communications lecturer Rebecca to Release joins us to discuss math's 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: obsession and the changing world of reality TV. Rebecca, you're 17 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 2: a bit of a reality TV expert, hey, when it 18 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 2: comes to your studies, aren't you. 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 4: Thanks for putting it that way. That's really kind of you. 20 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 4: I did my PhD thesis on the reality television genre 21 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 4: as a whole and the things that it does and 22 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 4: does well, so yeah, in some ways, I maybe am. 23 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 2: I right to say that you've had first hand experience 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: as well with this genre. 25 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I was like a year in the first 26 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 4: year of putting together what I would be researching. I 27 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 4: actually appeared on a New Zealand reality show as well, 28 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 4: which one was that I was in season two of 29 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 4: The Bachelor New Zealand. 30 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: So obviously at the moment, now Married at First Sight 31 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: New Zealand is airing and people are just absolutely obsessed 32 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: with it. It comes off the back of the Australian version, 33 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: which is also a huge hit. Here what is it 34 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: about maths that captures the audience's attention. 35 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 4: I think it's really interesting because it's come off the 36 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 4: back of the Australian Maths or Merit at First Sight, 37 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 4: where there was so much talk about it, and to 38 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 4: live up to kind of the drama that exists in 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 4: maths Australia, it's a big task, but it's definitely taking 40 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 4: on its own way into the maths format, this New 41 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 4: Zealand version. I think there's also different reasons why we 42 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 4: watch the different romance reality shows. So maybe you want 43 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 4: to watch the risky, raunchy Love Island that maybe you 44 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 4: want to see the romance of the Bachelor. But for 45 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 4: maths in particular, we're learning about commitment and we're learning 46 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 4: about those long term relationships. And I think that that's 47 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 4: its own unique way into looking at ourselves but looking 48 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 4: at our society. And so in particular here we've got 49 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 4: what is the society of commitment in alter or? It's 50 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,839 Speaker 4: really intriguing and I think we as viewers just want 51 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 4: to know that, we want to understand that. 52 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: On three now week, I have another thing. 53 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: Are the couples up for the test? 54 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: Jeff Rockett? 55 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 5: How are you? 56 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 4: I just don't know what's really married at first Sight 57 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 4: New Zealand stream first on three now. 58 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: I mean I've watched Maths for a fair few years 59 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 2: now and I have noticed myself, especially with the Australian 60 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: version just the last season, that the experts they're getting 61 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: less lenient with things like gas lighting and toxic relationships 62 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. Do you think that coming into 63 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four there is much more of a focus 64 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: on healthy relationships over maybe the dramatic launchy ones that 65 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: we like to watch. 66 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 4: And I think with something like Maths, which has been 67 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 4: going for a few years, we're about ten eleven years 68 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 4: after the first one over in Europe now, so there 69 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 4: was a period where the experts weren't calling participants out, 70 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 4: and so because they weren't doing that, the responses from 71 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 4: media who were following the show, from the audiences who 72 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 4: were then commenting on the show, they started to hold 73 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 4: the experts accountable a bit more. And so there's like 74 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 4: a slight shift and actually the experts realizing the audience 75 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 4: wants to see these people being called out, and so 76 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 4: now we can see those same behaviors that we're wanting 77 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 4: as audience members playing out on screen as the experts 78 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 4: talk about those words like being gaslet or the word 79 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 4: recently that we might have learned was the avoidant attachment 80 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 4: style and that didn't even come from one of the 81 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 4: experts this last week. But we're learning the types of 82 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 4: words that we should be looking out for and that 83 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 4: we maybe already recognize. We just need the language of them. 84 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: Dating shows have a pretty long history in New Zealand 85 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: and around the world. 86 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 3: Why does that subgenre appeal to us so much? 87 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 4: Or we're all humans like this is one of our 88 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 4: basic needs is to connect to someone else, to have 89 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 4: some type of not necessarily romantic or love connection, but 90 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 4: a connection, and to have that feeling of being seen 91 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 4: by someone else and so while we might have those 92 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 4: reality shows that focus on a skill set or like 93 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 4: it's a competition to get to the end, romance shows 94 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 4: are really something that every single human can relate to, 95 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 4: whether or not we want that form of connection or 96 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 4: if we have a desire for that connection. There has 97 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 4: been research into why audiences choose particular versions of shows 98 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 4: that they're watching, and they found that the values that 99 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 4: the person has in themselves in their own life tends 100 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 4: to inform the shows that they look for. And so 101 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 4: because so many humans have love and connection as this 102 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 4: idea of that's an important value in their own life, 103 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 4: they want to see those values played out on television. 104 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 2: I guess given these shows do still drop week to 105 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 2: week rather than Netflix, you can binge everything in one weekend. 106 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: I often think about the times when you'd be watching 107 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 2: say Er, and everyone goes to work the next day 108 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: and remembers when Dr Green died, right, and that's what 109 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: everyone was talking about because everyone was watching it the 110 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 2: night before. And if I've dropped any spoilers, it's been 111 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: about twenty years. 112 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 5: Mark Dave. 113 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 4: This morning, I sent this on so that you might 114 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 4: know who was thinking of you all. I'm hid it. 115 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 4: He appreciated knowing you would remember him well. 116 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 2: But I mean, I guess that sense of it coming 117 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: out every week is something like this really our last 118 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,679 Speaker 2: true water cooler shows. 119 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 4: I guess absolutely. The appointment television. It was something that 120 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 4: television has built into us as viewers from the very beginning. 121 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 4: So even if television was only being broadcast a couple 122 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 4: of hours at nighttime, we would schedule our lives around 123 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 4: making sure we were sitting in front of it. Now 124 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 4: this is generations ago, so this wasn't me personally, but 125 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 4: now I do actually schedule my life around television. And 126 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 4: when I was younger, it was to make sure that 127 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 4: one night of the week you could watch say Er 128 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 4: or Gray's Anatomy or something, as it was broadcast and 129 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 4: you couldn't catch up on streaming. You might have to 130 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 4: wait for the recap the next episode a week later. 131 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 4: We actually schedule our lives around having access to that 132 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 4: information that we can then have conversations the next day. 133 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 4: And so now that we have streaming services where you 134 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 4: can binge twelve episodes over a weekend, it's kind of 135 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 4: counting on everyone being available for that one weekend to 136 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 4: watch the entire thing. In one go. And so when 137 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 4: we go back to these formats that are kind of 138 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 4: drip feeding the content out to us, it forces us 139 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 4: as an audience to be drawn back to how they're 140 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 4: telling us to consume. We can't just leave it until 141 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 4: two nights later because there's two more episodes now, we're 142 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 4: so behind. So being able to put them out at 143 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 4: a specific time on a specific day, it's encouraging the 144 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 4: audiences to actually put in that effort. It's not as 145 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 4: easy as just putting something on the streaming service anymore. 146 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 4: I need to be there at a specific time and place. 147 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 2: Maps New Zealand has returned after a few controversies in 148 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: its past, most notably I remember in twenty nineteen Chris 149 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: Mansfield and is on screen. Brider actually edited out of 150 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: the third season before it went to air after it 151 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 2: was discovered he had domestic charges against him in the US. 152 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 2: What safety measures are there to protect the talent on 153 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 2: these shows? 154 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 4: That example is really interesting because there was concern about 155 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 4: the wife he was married to, you know, like was 156 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 4: she being put in a safe situation. The idea of 157 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 4: casting these shows and doing checks before someone arrives on 158 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 4: the show, that is a responsibility of production to make 159 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 4: sure that they know everything about someone. There's also that 160 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 4: negotiation from the participant in ensuring that everything is shared 161 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 4: as well. And so while production for that specific example 162 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 4: said that they did the checks they could, but I 163 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 4: mean it doesn't appear if it was in a different 164 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 4: country or something. They do have to rely on the 165 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 4: participant as well. So there's this kind of negotiation between 166 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 4: two parties there as to how a situation like that happens. 167 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 4: And it also happened with f Boy Island. A participant 168 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 4: also hadn't necessarily declared, and there again were issues around 169 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 4: the specific thing that he had been accused of in 170 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 4: a romantic setting. Now, these contestants could have been in 171 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 4: a different type of format, different show that wasn't relying 172 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 4: on their ability to perform in a relationship. They could 173 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 4: have been in a cooking contest. But because these shows 174 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 4: were specifically about being an intimate, vulnerable conversations and settings 175 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 4: like they're physically married and staying in a room together overnight, 176 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 4: there is a duty of care that is required. But 177 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 4: I'm not sure how that could be prevented unless production 178 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 4: and participants are working together on that. I couldn't believe it. 179 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 5: The thought of being married after a stranger, especially when 180 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 5: it's so easy to just google and see that his 181 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 5: name was attached to something so violent. It really scared 182 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 5: me for the women that were potentially going to be 183 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 5: his bride. 184 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 2: When you were on The Bachelor, did you feel looked 185 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 2: after by the producers behind the scenes. 186 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,599 Speaker 4: I feel like my time on the second season of 187 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 4: The Bachelor had different kind of stays. There's like the 188 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 4: before you actually go on the show and there was 189 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 4: minimal contact you're actually in the show, and once you're 190 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 4: in production, it's all consuming and it is like an 191 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 4: entire bubble that you cannot escape even if you wanted to, Like, 192 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 4: you've got no phones. We were overseas. If you've got 193 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 4: no phone, how do you get to a plane to 194 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 4: leave the country. We were living out remotely in the 195 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 4: north of Aucklands, so there was no way to actually leave. 196 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 4: You're constantly kind of reinforced about how great it is 197 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 4: that you're here, this is an opportunity, and that you 198 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 4: shouldn't leave. And there was a point where people were leaving, 199 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 4: contestants were leaving, and we were told no one else 200 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 4: is leaving now, like this is that you're here, you 201 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 4: made this decision. I think in terms of being supported 202 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 4: during the show, if something perhaps didn't go well, if 203 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 4: something happened behind the scenes, then you would be rewarded 204 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 4: with perhaps a date or time alone. So that idea 205 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 4: of what is the reward is not actually support or help. 206 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 4: It will help you get further in the show. You 207 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 4: can get more screen time or something. It was a 208 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 4: weird setup, but you could definitely see that if someone 209 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 4: went through something behind the scenes that explains why they 210 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 4: got a date, even if narratively it didn't make sense 211 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 4: in the show why someone got a date. I think 212 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 4: after the show then becomes like a different stage. And 213 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 4: so when you've been enveloped in this experience, for me personally, 214 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 4: it was six and a half weeks of literally everything 215 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 4: that you were doing, every single date, every moment is 216 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 4: for the creation of a show. When you leave the show, 217 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 4: it is completely like so jarring to go back to 218 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 4: actually your home and to see your family again. And 219 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 4: so in terms of support from production, once you go, 220 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 4: it is very much waiting out the time for your 221 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 4: next contractual obligations. So if there are upcoming marketing interviews 222 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 4: that you have to go to I know for me personally, 223 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 4: I did ask for support and it took two weeks 224 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 4: for me to actually talk to someone and I was 225 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 4: awarded one hour with a psychologist. That one hour wasn't enough. 226 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 4: But again this was also in twenty sixteen, and there 227 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 4: has definitely been a lot more awareness now and so 228 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 4: in the last eight years, I could only assume that 229 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 4: production has absolutely taken what people have said on board 230 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 4: and are actively trying to make their productions a safer space. 231 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 3: Well, we've heard some horror stories from over in the UK, 232 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 3: for instance, the Love Island cast about what kind of 233 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 3: support is and isn't given to them after the show airs, 234 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 3: because that's when you get your phone back and you 235 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 3: don't know how you've been edited. 236 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: Have you been edited as the villain for example? And 237 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: now you've got to face all this barrage of social 238 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 2: media keyboard warriors. 239 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure there are a lot of people out there 240 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: who can't understand why someone in a position who seems 241 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: to have everything could take their own life. But you 242 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: know what it's like to have everyone looking at you, 243 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: everybody talking about what are the pressures like when you 244 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: come out of a show like Love Island in reality. 245 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 6: You're in such a hire when you leave, and then 246 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 6: to come out and be bombarded with everyone's opinions on 247 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 6: like whatever you do a relationship, what you're wearing, what 248 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 6: you look like, is a lot to cope with. 249 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 2: That must be incredibly difficult to handle by oneself. 250 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 4: Absolutely, for years afterwards, I would still have strangers recognizing 251 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 4: me and telling me what my PhD thesis was on, 252 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 4: because that became part of the show, part of the 253 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 4: story and the show. Even if myself, as a person 254 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 4: standing in front of them was saying to them, I 255 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 4: assure you, that is not what I was writing about. 256 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 4: That is what the show was saying. That is what 257 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 4: the media was saying around the show. They still would 258 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 4: not believe you, the person in front of them. It 259 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 4: was fascinating from this perspective of why do we trust 260 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 4: what a show is giving us more than an individual. 261 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 4: Why do we trust the media reports around something rather 262 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 4: than an actual person. It doesn't matter how many times 263 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 4: you could say something. That whole way of presenting someone 264 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 4: else's character in a production, there's so much responsibility in that, 265 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 4: and it's tricky. It's so strange because to me, I'm 266 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 4: like my role here at aut is to be talking 267 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 4: through what is the impact and role of media in 268 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 4: our society and to have actually gone through this experience 269 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 4: of I don't understand how I can say the same 270 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 4: thing in twenty three different interviews the exact same way, 271 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 4: and yet I can read twenty three different angles into 272 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 4: what I said. It's quite fascinating, but at the same 273 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 4: time it's quite horrible. 274 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: Would you do it again? 275 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a super crazy question. I would not do 276 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 4: it again. But also because it's eight years later, it's 277 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 4: the kind of thing in your life where you go 278 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 4: back and you go, oh, I see who I am 279 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 4: now as a person because of going through that experience. 280 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 4: And I think one way to think of it is like, 281 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 4: do you regret doing it? If I hadn't have done it, 282 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 4: I would have been eight years later regretting not having tried, 283 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 4: because ultimately, I mean, for me personally, why are went 284 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 4: on a show is like I wanted to find love, 285 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 4: and coming off the back of season one of Art 286 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 4: and Matilda, it absolutely could happen. We're still nine years later, 287 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 4: I guess at this point, following them and the birth 288 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 4: of their children, it's incredible the love that they found 289 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 4: and the chance to actually go on and perhaps get 290 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 4: that that was too good to pass up. 291 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: And we've seen a bit of a reality check over 292 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: Reality TV in the last year. How there have been 293 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: calls for the stars to unionize and lawsuits have been 294 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: filed and some upheld over allegations of mistreatment on SAT, 295 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: poor conditions of filming, pushback over howe were portrayed. 296 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 3: Does Reality TV need a reset? 297 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 4: I think Reality TV needs to actually start considering participants 298 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 4: as just as important as the level of technology that 299 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 4: they're using to film that the level of marketing budget 300 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 4: that they have. They need to consider the same importance 301 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 4: of care and creation of the character within the show. 302 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 4: One of the foundations that are fighting for this in 303 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 4: America that you can foundation They're like, people are not 304 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 4: props pretty much, you're just a body. In some shows, 305 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 4: you were just there to physically just deliver the things 306 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 4: in order to make everything else about the show do 307 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 4: really well. But the participant is perhaps the lowest on 308 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 4: the level of priorities. And you know, we do actually 309 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 4: want to know about people, Like when we think about 310 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 4: why society are watching television, why we're watching reality television 311 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 4: in particular, is because we want to know why people decisions, 312 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 4: how are people behaving, and how do we agree or 313 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 4: disagree with their behaviors. We're actually watching the shows for 314 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 4: the participants. We're not watching them because it's got amazing 315 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 4: high quality standards. We're not watching it for anything else 316 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 4: other than we want to be seeing ourselves or we 317 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 4: want to be feeling better about ourselves because of the participants. 318 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 4: It's not just on the producers either. This is on 319 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 4: the audience as well. If there were no participants, there 320 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 4: wouldn't be a show, So let's try and treat them 321 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 4: with a bit more respect. 322 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Rebecca. 323 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You 324 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 325 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 2: at enzidherld dot co dot z. The Front Page is 326 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and sound engineer Patti Fox. I'm 327 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 2: Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or 328 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday 329 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: for another look behind the headlines.