1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: Kilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Nearly 3 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: three thousand experiences have been heard in one hundred and 4 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: thirty three days of public hearings and more than a 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: million documents received. It's been five and a half years 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 1: since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse and Care 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people 8 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: and vulnerable adults within state and faith based institutions. Over 9 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: the years, the inquiries heard from countless survivors, government heads 10 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: and church leaders. Common themes have included significant sexual, verbal 11 00:00:53,680 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: and physical violence, over medicalization, isolation and unsanitary conditions. Finally, 12 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: the Inquiry's final report will be released publicly today after 13 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: it's presented in Parliament. Senior investigative reporter Michael Mora has 14 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: been covering this inquiry since it started and joins us 15 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: today on the Front Page. Michael, can you give us 16 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: a bit of an explainer on what the Abuse and 17 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: Care Inquiry actually is? 18 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? 19 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 3: Well, it was set up in twenty eighteen by the 20 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 3: then Labor government to investigate allegations of historic state abuse 21 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 3: and faith abuse. Initially, this was between nineteen fifty and 22 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine, but that time frame was actually extended 23 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 3: in the end. Now, the first interim report from this 24 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: Commission of Inquiry actually came out of the end of 25 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,279 Speaker 3: twenty twenty, and incredibly it estimated that about a quarter 26 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: of a million people were abused in state or church care, 27 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 3: though the report noted that the real figure is likely 28 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 3: much much higher. So most of those abuse came from 29 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 3: Maori and Pacifica families, disabled people, women and girls. And 30 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 3: the abuse of behavior is harrowing. I mean it ranged 31 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 3: from physical assault to sexual assault, restraint, cruel, inhumane and 32 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 3: degrading medical procedures such as shock therapy being used as punishment. 33 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 3: And when this interim report came out, and I remember 34 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 3: reporting on it at the time, the recommendation at that 35 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 3: time in twenty twenty was that there should be an 36 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 3: independent redress system set up at that time. But nothing, 37 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 3: nothing has happened, and survivors are still waiting and in 38 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 3: fact many are dying. Chris Hipkins at the time stood 39 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 3: up after this interim report and said he accepted the recommendations, 40 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 3: action would be taken, and yet we have not seen anything. 41 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 4: One of the key messages from the report is that 42 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 4: we need to actually work with the survivors to co 43 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 4: design a redress process that's going to work for them 44 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 4: and one that they're going to have trust and confidence in. 45 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 4: It's clear the previous attempts to provide redress have fallen short, 46 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 4: so I think it's important that we do that work 47 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 4: with the victims rather than to them. 48 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: You've been covering this since its inception in twenty eighteen, 49 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: but you've spoken to so many survivors over the years. 50 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: What stories stick out to you. 51 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 3: I've spoken to many many survivors, from state institutions to 52 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 3: church groups, church homes. One of the guys that always 53 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 3: stood out to me as a chap called Pool Zenfield, 54 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: and I think he's been one of the leading voices 55 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 3: in this ongoing saga. He was tortured at the old 56 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 3: Lake Alice Hospital. You've probably heard of that. It's near Martin. 57 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: He was given electric shock treatment for doing things like 58 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 3: whetting the bed as a fourteen year old. But despite 59 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 3: so many setbacks, Paul has never really given up in 60 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 3: his quest for justice and accountability. He supports other survivors 61 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 3: and he's just a real sort of Kiwi Batler. He 62 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: even took a case to the UN Committee against Torture, 63 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 3: which was upheld in twenty twenty, and that recommended at 64 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: the time that the government investigate claims of torture. And 65 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 3: there's you know, other people, which I think was really impactful. 66 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 3: I mean, I met a man whose name I won't 67 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 3: say because he asked me, and the story I did 68 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 3: with him, we did not identify him. But when this 69 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 3: all started, he told me that one day he just 70 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 3: was in tears and his wife came upstairs and said, 71 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 3: what's going on. And at that point, decades and decades 72 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 3: after his abuse, he disclosed to his wife what had happened. 73 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 3: And he had been raped every week for a two 74 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 3: year period by a Marius brother known as Brother Giles. 75 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 3: And this story really hit me hard, and it was 76 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 3: hugely impactful because I sat down with this guy, a 77 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 3: grown man who has his own kids, who was in 78 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 3: tears recounting and publicly revealing for the very first time 79 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: exactly what he had endured as a boy. And that 80 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 3: was so significant because this was abuse that he had 81 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 3: buried and tried to forget for decades, and he opened 82 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 3: up about it. 83 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, I went into Kewinos too. There are very few 84 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 5: of us who have actually made it out unscathed. There 85 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 5: are very few of us that can look back at 86 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 5: our childhoods and be happy about them. The whole process 87 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 5: has shown us what things like boot camps and criminalizing 88 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 5: young people that it shows us the pathway that young 89 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 5: people take when they're put into situations like that from 90 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 5: people in authority. 91 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: I guess over the years there have been some key moments. 92 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: One that comes to my mind is when Gloria Vale 93 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: leaders fronted the inquiry. How rare is such a move 94 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: for this notoriously secretive sect. 95 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 3: I guess, well, Gloria Vale's leader, Howard Temple, never likes 96 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 3: to ready be seen in public, nor does he like 97 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: to comment publicly on anything. So yes, he was forced 98 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 3: to come before the Commission, just like he was forced 99 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 3: to come before the Employment Court during a recent case 100 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 3: taken by Leavers against the leaders there. So that is 101 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 3: incredibly rare. There were a lot of key moments. 102 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 4: You know. 103 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 3: It wasn't just Gloriavale's leader. I remember hugely significant apology 104 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: from place. It was the former Commissioner Tom Fitzgerald who 105 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 3: turned up at the Commission of Inquiry and essentially said 106 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 3: sorry for multiple botched investigations into allegations of abuse and 107 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 3: torture at Lake Alice Hospital. And that related to investigations 108 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 3: between two thousand and two and twenty ten where police 109 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 3: not only failed to investigate complaints thoroughly, they lost key 110 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: witness statements given to them by survivors, and they just 111 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: did not commit enough resources to the case. Now, when 112 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 3: a police front and apologized publicly, you know that there's 113 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 3: been a pretty monumental stuff up. 114 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean, and that's just one of the 115 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: apologies that we've seen over the years. Hey, it's also 116 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: seen apologies from church leaders from just about every denomination. 117 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: How have survivors you've spoken to reacted to those apologies? 118 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look, you're right. I mean, I clearly remember 119 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 3: Cardinal John Joe of the Catholic Church stepping up and 120 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 3: apologize and acknowledging that Catholic church systems and its culture 121 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 3: allowed children to be abused. And that was a hugely 122 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 3: significant day. I think that a lot of these apologies 123 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 3: fall on deaf airs. Some of these survivors have been 124 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 3: raising these concerns for decades and have not felt listened to. 125 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 3: They have not felt believed. So the apologies I think 126 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 3: for many ring hollow. What they want to see is 127 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 3: actual action. You know, it's a bit like Lake Alice. 128 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 3: I mean, some of the horrific abuse that occurred there 129 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 3: and the lack of accountability that we've seen, and you know, 130 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 3: let's be clear about what the Commission has determined about 131 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 3: places like Lake Alice. I mean, this was mass torture 132 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 3: of vulnerable children, and the really disgraceful thing was that 133 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 3: complaints and concerns raised at the time went nowhere. And 134 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 3: so for so long survivors have felt that they know 135 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 3: we're not listened to. So the apologies, as I said, 136 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 3: rang hollow, at least at this point. You know, they 137 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 3: have found a place in the Commission, which has done 138 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 3: lengthy and an extraordinary inquiry in my view, into what 139 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 3: really went on. 140 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: Why has it taken nearly six years to get from 141 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: the inception to the final report. 142 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 3: There's been lots of back and forth. Like I said 143 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 3: at the beginning of this chat, there were changes to 144 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 3: the timeline. Initially it was like we're going to investigate 145 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 3: between nineteen fifties to nineteen ninety nine. Then there was 146 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 3: concerns from survivors that that doesn't actually consider what's happening 147 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: right now, and so the scope of the inquiry changed. 148 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 3: There have been various people who have come and gone 149 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 3: from the Commission's leadership structure, and I think that the 150 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 3: amount of work has been underestimated by the Commission. There 151 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 3: have been thousands of written statements, thousands of hearings from 152 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: people in person turning up to tell their stories in person, 153 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 3: and it's been very disappointing for survivors that it has 154 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 3: been pushed out and pushed out. You know, we were 155 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 3: expecting to have the final report out well before today 156 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 3: in saying that we have got to this stage and 157 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 3: it is a huge day for thousands of survivors. 158 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 2: Well, it's exposed, I think, just the extent of abuse 159 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: and that it's gone right across all aspects of state 160 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 2: and faith based care. You know, now we have about 161 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 2: two thousand active claims. A lot of those clients now 162 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 2: are in their early to mid twenties, some sadly are 163 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 2: in their teams. It's certainly not something of the past. 164 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 2: It is you know, it's still very much something that 165 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 2: is happening now and I think, sadly, will continue into 166 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: the future, and with. 167 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: Faith based institutions, they weren't originally included. 168 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 3: Were they No, they were not originally included, and so 169 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 3: that was another add on, and there was a lot 170 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 3: of advocacy and pressure to ensure that they were included, 171 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 3: and in fact, some of the most depraved defending has 172 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 3: come from some of these faith based institutions. One place 173 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 3: that comes to mind is Maryland's School in christ Church. 174 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 3: This was described by survivors as a state supported church 175 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 3: run brothel for pedophiles. I mean, it was particularly infamous 176 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 3: because many of the victims were disabled, and we learned 177 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 3: a lot about what the church did at the time 178 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 3: if priests got found out that they were molesting children, 179 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 3: and that was not to call the cops. It was 180 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 3: to shift them to another place where they would continue 181 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: abusing other children. The police went called, there was no investigation, 182 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 3: and this was a pattern that occurred time and time again. 183 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: Is there a redress process in place at the moment 184 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: or are we expecting to learn more about that? 185 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so there is a redress process at the moment. 186 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 3: So a lot of survivors I've spoken to have entered 187 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 3: into this redress process with agencies like the Ministry of 188 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 3: Social Development or with the Ministry of Health, and they 189 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 3: will go to their lawyers and the lawyers will make 190 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: a claim for some compensation. The problem with this is 191 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 3: that it is very very drawn out. In fact, I 192 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 3: spoke with a leading lawyer in the Serius Sonya Cooper, 193 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 3: who has thousands of clients from state abuse, and she 194 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: said the average time it takes to have some form 195 00:12:55,320 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 3: of compensation or payout is about six years. So it's 196 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 3: incredible ready, and you can imagine that people are actually 197 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 3: dying before they get any form of redress. So that 198 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 3: is in part where survivors can get redress get compensation. 199 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 3: There are schemes and systems in place with these government 200 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 3: departments to organize those compensation payments. However, what has always 201 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 3: been called for is that there is some form of 202 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 3: independent body which oversees this redress. That has been a 203 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 3: key thing. It's a bit like the Catholic Church's body 204 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,239 Speaker 3: for investigating complaints, which is the National Office of Professional Standards. 205 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 3: That is a church run operation. Now there's inherently some 206 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 3: concerns about survivors about that, and they would like to 207 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 3: see the investigative body taken away from being church controlled 208 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 3: and actually being an independent investigative body and for complaints 209 00:13:55,320 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 3: and investigations to be conducted independently. And the same with redress. Again, 210 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 3: we know that the interim report recommended an independent redress system, 211 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 3: so we'd be pretty sure that that would be the 212 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,719 Speaker 3: same recommendation today. 213 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 6: Look, survivors, especially of my era, are dying at an 214 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 6: ever increasing rate, and they have waited far, far too 215 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 6: long for redress, and we need to do that to 216 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 6: be able to move on and focus on the terrible 217 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 6: rates of abuse that are still happening. 218 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: Now. 219 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 6: We have to deal with both. They don't sit in 220 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 6: isolation to each other. The best way to stop abuse 221 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 6: and care is to keep them out of there in 222 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 6: the first place. So that means resourcing our communities of 223 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 6: all cultures to be able to look after their own. 224 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of talk about how to actually 225 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: quantify someone's trauma as well with the redress. 226 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 3: Hey, oh absolutely, and a lot of this is kind of, 227 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 3: you know, providing evidence from when you were a child, 228 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 3: any records that can be found, and this is in 229 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 3: part why it takes so long. If you go to 230 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 3: the Ministry of so Development and the lawyer makes an 231 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 3: application to get all the records. It takes some time 232 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 3: to get all those records, and then you have to 233 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 3: kind of build the case. And there's lenk the interviews 234 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 3: that take place about a man or a woman's life, 235 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 3: how that has gone, what difficulties they've faced, How could 236 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 3: that be attributed? Is that attributed to the abuse that 237 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 3: they occurred? So all those sorts of things you need 238 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 3: to be considered. 239 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Christopher Luxen is expected to deliver an apology 240 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: on behalf of the country in November, but what should 241 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: be the next steps after that? 242 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 3: Survivors would hope that action begins well before November. This 243 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 3: is an incredibly dark chapter in New Zealand where survivors 244 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 3: were silenced, some claimed cover ups of complaints, and this 245 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 3: has impacted the most marginalized groups in society. We had 246 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: church leaders who befriended families to get access to and 247 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 3: sexually abused chill children. And it's about time we faced 248 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 3: up to this. It's about time the church authorities face 249 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 3: up to this and the government and we see some 250 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 3: sort of tangible action because that's the concern from survivors. 251 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 3: It's time for accountability and action. And the important thing 252 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 3: to remember is that survivors have come out and done 253 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: this to prevent it happening again, and as we know 254 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 3: that the abuse is ongoing at the moment, there's no 255 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 3: shortage of stories of concerns about the functions of agencies 256 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 3: like ordering a tamadiki. So I guess the next steps 257 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 3: in terms of what survivors would want is real action 258 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 3: and real accountability. 259 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: Now, thanks for joining us, Michael. That said, for this 260 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: episode of the Front Page. You can read more about 261 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzadherld dot co 262 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: dot z. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Seles 263 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: with sound engineer Paddy Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to 264 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 1: The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, 265 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: and tune in to Morrow for another look behind the headlines.