1
00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:13,213
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from NEWSTALKSB. Follow this and

2
00:00:13,253 --> 00:00:17,453
Speaker 1: our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio News TALKSB.

3
00:00:17,613 --> 00:00:19,933
Speaker 2: So, as we've been discussing, the government has announced the

4
00:00:19,933 --> 00:00:23,093
Speaker 2: significant increase in defense spending nine billion dollars of new

5
00:00:23,093 --> 00:00:25,573
Speaker 2: money in the next four years, lifting defense spending to

6
00:00:25,613 --> 00:00:27,693
Speaker 2: two percent of GDP in the next eight years. To

7
00:00:27,853 --> 00:00:30,732
Speaker 2: discuss further, we are joined by former Minister of Defense

8
00:00:30,773 --> 00:00:34,452
Speaker 2: Wayne Map Doctor Mapp. Good afternoon to you. How are

9
00:00:34,453 --> 00:00:35,773
Speaker 2: you very good?

10
00:00:35,893 --> 00:00:36,013
Speaker 3: So?

11
00:00:36,173 --> 00:00:39,732
Speaker 2: Did this government investment go further than you expected in

12
00:00:39,813 --> 00:00:41,893
Speaker 2: terms of that funding boost getting it to two percent

13
00:00:41,893 --> 00:00:42,452
Speaker 2: of GDP?

14
00:00:42,772 --> 00:00:47,253
Speaker 3: That is significant, it's significant, but they herald it for

15
00:00:47,293 --> 00:00:51,533
Speaker 3: you months, to be honest, And what that two percent

16
00:00:51,653 --> 00:00:54,493
Speaker 3: means is that we won't just have two frigates in

17
00:00:54,533 --> 00:00:58,493
Speaker 3: the future. It'll be three or four. But that's down

18
00:00:58,573 --> 00:01:01,933
Speaker 3: the track. We're talking ten years away. Almost Should we

19
00:01:01,973 --> 00:01:02,373
Speaker 3: go further?

20
00:01:02,413 --> 00:01:06,173
Speaker 4: America spends what three point four percent makes our push

21
00:01:06,253 --> 00:01:07,613
Speaker 4: to two percent seem slight.

22
00:01:08,613 --> 00:01:11,813
Speaker 3: But we're also the most isolated country in the world,

23
00:01:11,853 --> 00:01:14,773
Speaker 3: and we've got a massive otion between us and anyone else,

24
00:01:15,292 --> 00:01:16,453
Speaker 3: So no, we shouldn't.

25
00:01:16,572 --> 00:01:18,453
Speaker 4: Okay, what do you see as you know if you

26
00:01:18,453 --> 00:01:21,453
Speaker 4: say we're isolated, as we clearly are. What are the

27
00:01:21,493 --> 00:01:24,293
Speaker 4: threats to New Zealand that we're trying to deal with

28
00:01:24,292 --> 00:01:25,932
Speaker 4: with this increased funding.

29
00:01:26,893 --> 00:01:30,292
Speaker 3: Well, essentially in partnership with Australia. Australia is our only

30
00:01:30,413 --> 00:01:33,933
Speaker 3: ally and we have to do things in concert with them.

31
00:01:34,333 --> 00:01:38,093
Speaker 3: When the Chinese Task Force came down last month, the

32
00:01:38,133 --> 00:01:40,933
Speaker 3: first frigate on the scene was in fact our frigate

33
00:01:41,013 --> 00:01:44,253
Speaker 3: to Kaha, and then that was taken over by an

34
00:01:44,253 --> 00:01:47,933
Speaker 3: Australian frigate out of Sydney, but both were fueled by

35
00:01:48,053 --> 00:01:51,813
Speaker 3: our tanker. So the two countries work in concert, which

36
00:01:51,853 --> 00:01:53,373
Speaker 3: is what you'd expect allies to do.

37
00:01:53,973 --> 00:01:56,813
Speaker 2: So, looking at that investment list that's been released off

38
00:01:56,853 --> 00:02:00,253
Speaker 2: the map, Javelin missile upgrades and Harn't strike capabilities, improved

39
00:02:00,613 --> 00:02:03,773
Speaker 2: drone capabilities, that to me as a layman's appears to

40
00:02:03,813 --> 00:02:07,213
Speaker 2: be a new direction in terms of armaments. Is that

41
00:02:07,493 --> 00:02:10,493
Speaker 2: a right viewpoint or is that something we've been trying

42
00:02:10,493 --> 00:02:11,813
Speaker 2: to improve for some years.

43
00:02:12,413 --> 00:02:15,253
Speaker 3: Trying to improve for some years it's sort of incremental.

44
00:02:15,533 --> 00:02:19,373
Speaker 3: I suppose of that list, the most significant would really

45
00:02:19,413 --> 00:02:23,732
Speaker 3: be putting strike capability on the P eight Poseidon's really

46
00:02:23,773 --> 00:02:28,173
Speaker 3: an anti ship muscile of literally hundreds of kilometers range.

47
00:02:28,733 --> 00:02:31,013
Speaker 3: Drones's not kind of been planned for a long time,

48
00:02:31,093 --> 00:02:34,333
Speaker 3: and I think they're primarily surveillance drones. Makes a lot

49
00:02:34,333 --> 00:02:36,333
Speaker 3: of sense. You know, there are a lot of circumstances

50
00:02:36,373 --> 00:02:40,573
Speaker 3: where you can send out a surveillance drone rather than

51
00:02:40,613 --> 00:02:43,132
Speaker 3: an expense of P eight with eleven crew.

52
00:02:44,093 --> 00:02:46,973
Speaker 4: Now, speaking of the all this, there's a lot of

53
00:02:47,213 --> 00:02:53,133
Speaker 4: mentions of uncrude you know, uncrewed aerial systems and such.

54
00:02:53,252 --> 00:02:55,573
Speaker 4: Do you see a defense force in New Zealand that

55
00:02:55,733 --> 00:02:58,773
Speaker 4: has less humans in it in the future.

56
00:02:59,773 --> 00:03:04,293
Speaker 3: No, All uncrude systems need a fair bit of human management.

57
00:03:04,333 --> 00:03:09,013
Speaker 3: In fact, you know there are for instance, take the

58
00:03:08,453 --> 00:03:12,813
Speaker 3: the seaborne vi aerial surveillance stro over the sea. You know

59
00:03:12,893 --> 00:03:14,613
Speaker 3: you're going to have a crew of sort of three

60
00:03:14,733 --> 00:03:18,012
Speaker 3: or four minimum to sort of operate that system. It's

61
00:03:18,053 --> 00:03:21,813
Speaker 3: got to be constantly supervised, it's got to be programmed.

62
00:03:22,013 --> 00:03:23,613
Speaker 3: It's got to be able to look at targets of

63
00:03:24,653 --> 00:03:27,213
Speaker 3: items of opportunity to be a fishing feet or something

64
00:03:27,293 --> 00:03:32,093
Speaker 3: like that. So uncrewed systems means no people on the

65
00:03:32,133 --> 00:03:35,813
Speaker 3: platform doesn't mean to say no people on the system.

66
00:03:36,173 --> 00:03:37,813
Speaker 4: So what do you say to this text. We're getting

67
00:03:37,813 --> 00:03:41,813
Speaker 4: a few things like this through. This is an evil chat.

68
00:03:41,933 --> 00:03:46,493
Speaker 4: The army is evil, the military is subscribed tape take sorry,

69
00:03:46,573 --> 00:03:52,133
Speaker 4: sub subscribed state murder and sick to say we need

70
00:03:52,173 --> 00:03:53,973
Speaker 4: a military at all.

71
00:03:54,093 --> 00:03:56,493
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I don't buy that. If you think of

72
00:03:56,653 --> 00:03:59,573
Speaker 3: the well, you think of what we did in ease

73
00:03:59,613 --> 00:04:04,053
Speaker 3: Temil twenty five years ago and really for the following

74
00:04:04,053 --> 00:04:07,573
Speaker 3: ten years. We helped that nation and the people of

75
00:04:07,613 --> 00:04:11,533
Speaker 3: that nation have their freedom and their rights. Without us

76
00:04:11,573 --> 00:04:14,773
Speaker 3: being there a long with the Australians, that would not

77
00:04:14,813 --> 00:04:20,013
Speaker 3: have happened. It took Australia and New Zealand to provide

78
00:04:20,053 --> 00:04:24,493
Speaker 3: the security to enable that to happen. You've had the

79
00:04:24,573 --> 00:04:30,333
Speaker 3: miners all over the world. You've had people supervising the

80
00:04:30,333 --> 00:04:34,293
Speaker 3: peace treaty between Egypt and Israel. So the New Zealand

81
00:04:34,613 --> 00:04:38,173
Speaker 3: military is primarily involved about peacekeeping more than anything else.

82
00:04:38,933 --> 00:04:42,173
Speaker 2: Doctor Matt, it's been fascinating getting your analysis. Really appreciate

83
00:04:42,213 --> 00:04:46,133
Speaker 2: your time this afternoon. No trouble that is former Minister

84
00:04:46,173 --> 00:04:47,053
Speaker 2: of Defense Wayne Matt.

85
00:04:47,053 --> 00:04:49,773
Speaker 1: We are for more from News Talks a b Listen

86
00:04:49,853 --> 00:04:52,813
Speaker 1: live on air or online and keep our shows with

87
00:04:52,933 --> 00:04:56,093
Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio,