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Speaker 1: So with America hitting paus on the military aid for

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Speaker 1: the war, the question now is at the end of

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Speaker 1: Americans involvement or a technic to get the mineral deal

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Speaker 1: signed off key based foreign policy and security animals. Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Rushton with This Morning, Good Morning. Has Zelynsky caved when

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Speaker 1: he sees, you know, the bold leadership of Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: and were ready to go on minerals. Was this a

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Speaker 1: tectic in its wood?

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Speaker 2: I think it is a tactic. I wouldn't say that

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Speaker 2: he's caved because the Ukrainians were always prepared to sign

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Speaker 2: this minerals deal. They would have signed it, you know,

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Speaker 2: in the White House a few days ago. But obviously

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Speaker 2: there was that unfortunate confrontation largely initiated by j. D.

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Speaker 2: Vance and Donald Trump, and then Zelensky was asked to leave.

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Speaker 2: But you know, now he's kind of expressing regret for

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Speaker 2: what happened, and I think, to be honest, that's genuine.

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Speaker 2: Everyone in the Ukrainian government regrets what's happened, and he's

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Speaker 2: prepared to sign this deal and attempt to rebuild a

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Speaker 2: relationship with the White House.

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Speaker 1: Is there a realization that without America, Ukraine's finish.

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Speaker 2: I know, and to be honest, that's not actually true.

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Speaker 2: If you know, America is incredibly important. But right now

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Speaker 2: Ukraine provides around about forty to fifty percent of its

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Speaker 2: you know, war material production, and then you have the

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Speaker 2: Europeans and the Americans that provide around about twenty five

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Speaker 2: percent each. So without America it would be tough. But

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Speaker 2: there are you know, there are things that Ukrainians can do.

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Speaker 2: There's obviously things that Europeans can do, and also obviously

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Speaker 2: New Zealand, Australia, Japan, Ukraine's other allies outside of Europe

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Speaker 2: to kind of to fill that gap that that America

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Speaker 2: will leave. It will be a big gap, but you

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Speaker 2: know it is possible for those countries to replace what

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Speaker 2: America provides.

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Speaker 1: What what bendor Lyne was talking about iban night, the

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Speaker 1: one in our money one and a half trillion dollars

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Speaker 1: in loans and in other words Europe stepping up? Is

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Speaker 1: that real or is that just panic and panicked talk?

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Speaker 2: So look, I think there is panic here, There's there's

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Speaker 2: panic everywhere, especially in London at the moment, which is

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Speaker 2: trying to you know, kissed on one. A lot of

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Speaker 2: plaudits for handling Trump. But then you know, he really

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Speaker 2: now has to cash in those that relationship that he

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Speaker 2: managed to build, because at the moment, it does seem

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Speaker 2: like America is on the verge of ending the trans

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Speaker 2: Atlantic Alliance, which has served European and global security generally

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Speaker 2: pretty well for the last you know, since the Second

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Speaker 2: World War, and there is panic. I think you're asking

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Speaker 2: a lot of proposals. Generally, what happens is some of

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Speaker 2: these proposals move forward, some of them don't for various reasons.

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Speaker 2: But I think there is there is a serious understanding

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Speaker 2: that europe will have to spend money, have to step up,

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Speaker 2: you know, have to take their security seriously.

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Speaker 1: Now, this is why I can't understand, Jimmy. I can't

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Speaker 1: work out what Trump's trying to do. Is Trump trying

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Speaker 1: to do just a business deal, He's not interested in war.

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Speaker 1: Let's get to the table, let's get a ceasefire, and

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Speaker 1: let's get this done. Or is Trump doing Russia's bidding

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Speaker 1: and you sign the minerals deal, so America gets a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of stuff, Russia gets some land, and he's

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Speaker 1: out of there.

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Speaker 2: It's really difficult to kind of ascribe strategic thinking to

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump. He seems to be very very reactionary. He's

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Speaker 2: very transactional. I think, you know, he made these big

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Speaker 2: promises that he could end this war and they would

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Speaker 2: be really, really easy, and I suspect that he's found that, actually,

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Speaker 2: you know, the Russians song could give an inch, and

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Speaker 2: he believes that he can more effectively threaten Ukraine to

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Speaker 2: agree to unfavorable terms, then he can threaten the Russians

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Speaker 2: to agree to unfavorable terms. And I think that's what's happening.

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Speaker 2: The problem is that the Americans really have overestimated their

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Speaker 2: power and they don't really understand the situation on the front,

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Speaker 2: which is not catastrophic for Ukraine really at all. The

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Speaker 2: Russians are looking pretty ragged currently, and you know, he

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Speaker 2: seems to be overplaying his hand. You know, he likes

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Speaker 2: these poker references. He said, Zelensky has no no cars

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Speaker 2: and play. Well, actually they do. And you know, if

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Speaker 2: he wants to end this war, Ukraine has to agree

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Speaker 2: to that as well, not just Russia.

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Speaker 1: What's it like in keeb at the moment.

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Speaker 2: It's to be honest, it's not that bad. We've been

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Speaker 2: having quite heavy air raids for the last month. Or

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Speaker 2: so a lot of these shahis, which are these Iranian

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Speaker 2: supplied Kamikazi drones. But in the last couple of days

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Speaker 2: it's been relatively quiet. You know, we've got power. The

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Speaker 2: Ukrainian air defenses and the Ukrainian electricity guys have been

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Speaker 2: absolutely amazing. We haven't really had any power cuts this

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Speaker 2: winter compared to the last couple of years where we

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Speaker 2: had days aout power at times. So you know, again

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Speaker 2: the situation on the home front here is relatively stable.

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Speaker 2: I was on the front lines about two and a

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Speaker 2: half weeks ago speaking to some guys in th the

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Speaker 2: Sort Brigade, which is one of the Ukrainian military's premiere units,

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Speaker 2: and their morale is very, very high. They're inflicting severe

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Speaker 2: casualties on the Russians, and you know that they're even

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Speaker 2: making advances in some places along the front, as we

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Speaker 2: went to Rets for example, and they're inflicting staggering losses

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Speaker 2: on the Russians. So the idea that this is all

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Speaker 2: kind of a one sided war and that Russia is

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Speaker 2: just pushing forward and you know, the Ukrainians have not

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Speaker 2: going to ans, it's just not true, to be honest.

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Speaker 1: All right, Jimmy will stay in touch. Appreciate Jimmy Rushton,

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Speaker 1: who's in key for us this morning.

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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