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Speaker 1: You better get out of the way, because the stampede

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Speaker 1: of New Zealand is leaving the country rolls on in

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Speaker 1: record numbers. Fifty six thousand left the country in the

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Speaker 1: year to April, which beats the previous record, which we

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Speaker 1: thought was bad enough. Mark Smiths nay As by economists

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Speaker 1: back with us, Mark.

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Speaker 2: Morning, Good morning, Mike.

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Speaker 1: The bigger picture on immigration, we're still getting nick gains.

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Speaker 1: The neck gains are slowing. Are we getting the balance

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Speaker 1: about right? Do you have any view on that or not?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're moving closer. As you said, the net and

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Speaker 2: flow at the moment is still one hundred thousand people,

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Speaker 2: which is absolutely massive historically, But the numbers of arrivals

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Speaker 2: are certainly slow and the numbers of departures are picking

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Speaker 2: up as well. So we are moving in the right direction,

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Speaker 2: but still still a way to go yet.

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Speaker 1: Reason I asked the question is Hayes had a survey yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Twenty five percent of employers are saying, look, it's worse

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Speaker 1: than last year in terms of skills gaps in the

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Speaker 1: labor market. Are you seeing that? Is that your view

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Speaker 1: of what's going on?

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Speaker 2: I think, anecdotally is the case. If you look at

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Speaker 2: an average age of people leaving it's thirty three. Average

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Speaker 2: age of people coming in this twenty nine, So they

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Speaker 2: could well be a bit of a mismatch. But between

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Speaker 2: who's coming and who's leaving, New Zealand's productivity record is

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Speaker 2: not great and this will only exacerbate that as well.

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Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, so as far as the number of kiwis

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Speaker 1: leaving the country is this, I mean, this is not economics,

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Speaker 1: it's just per is this getting embarrassing? There is something

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Speaker 1: wrong with us?

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Speaker 2: It tends to happen sort of every decord or so

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Speaker 2: we saw a similar sort of dynamic and it sort

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Speaker 2: of you know, ten years ago, twenty years ago, tends

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Speaker 2: to happen. Really, it's reflectible what's happening offshore as well.

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Speaker 2: If you look at the opportunities for New Zealander, is

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Speaker 2: you know, it's probably better across the ditch. I mean

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Speaker 2: Australia on the point rate at around four percent is

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Speaker 2: below hours at four and a half and higher wages

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Speaker 2: on offer lower living costs that it's pretty clear for

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Speaker 2: from a New Zealand's point of view, where they should

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Speaker 2: probably be coming.

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Speaker 1: When you say lower living costs, here's what I know

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Speaker 1: about Australia at the moment. I looked at the Hayes

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Speaker 1: salary business yesterday. Yes, generally if you go to Sydney

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Speaker 1: you can earn more money and a whole variety of

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Speaker 1: different jobs, but not a lot, and then you've got rent,

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Speaker 1: and rent, as far as I can work out in

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Speaker 1: Australia is a nightmare. And that's before you buy a house,

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Speaker 1: which is also a nightmare. Is it really that good

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Speaker 1: or do we just have in mind Australia's berg. It's sunny,

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Speaker 1: so we might as well go.

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Speaker 2: No, Yeah, you're certainly correct, I mean in terms of

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Speaker 2: relative to incomes. But you're right, I mean it depends.

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Speaker 2: We do go some places obviously where there is very

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Speaker 2: very cute skill childrens in Australia. You know, New Zealander's

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Speaker 2: you know, obviously they're very attractive for Kere. He's there,

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Speaker 2: but other places are quite different. It's very very similar.

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Speaker 1: To the New Zealand and do you think people will

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Speaker 1: come back? So, as we sit here fretting about all

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Speaker 1: the young people of the do they eventually when they

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Speaker 1: get married, want to have kids, raise their kids, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: still decide New Zealand's okay?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's hopefully the case in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: New Zealand doesn't really offer you know, it's probably not

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Speaker 2: the biggest, the best place in the world for salaries,

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Speaker 2: but the lifestyle in New Zealand is certainly second to none,

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Speaker 2: and that's a mat magnet for New Zealand's good stuff.

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Speaker 1: Make appreciate your expertise as always make Smith asp economist

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Speaker 1: with the smiling but for more from News Talks ed

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