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Speaker 1: Altogether do to see Ellen.

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Speaker 2: Now the government's coppying it over a late change they

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Speaker 2: made to the gang patch ban. The change will make

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Speaker 2: it illegal for gang members who repeatedly break the rules

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Speaker 2: around the patch ban from even having these patches in

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Speaker 2: their homes. Chris Macklin is the convener of the Law

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Speaker 2: Society's Criminal Law Committee and with us. Now, Hey, Chris Kelder,

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Speaker 2: how are you henn Well? Thank you mate? Primarily, what's

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Speaker 2: your problem? Is it the late change without consultation or

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Speaker 2: is it the change itself.

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Speaker 1: Look, what we wanted to alert people to was the

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Speaker 1: late change. But the lateness is of particular concern because

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Speaker 1: it's substantive, creates a new offense and gives some quite

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Speaker 1: in truth of search powers. It's the fit of thing

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Speaker 1: you'd normally expect consultation to be undertaken on.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So it's a bit of both. Okay. So on

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Speaker 2: the change itself, I mean, I have concerns like you

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Speaker 2: do about going into people's homes and you have to

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Speaker 2: have a pretty high threshold for that. But is it

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Speaker 2: not a case of just going to essentially seize the

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Speaker 2: patches when somebody is repeatedly breaking the law?

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Speaker 1: Look, I have to accept that that would, don't know

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Speaker 1: that be the intense to the draft of But this

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Speaker 1: is precisely why you need the attention that usually comes

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Speaker 1: with consultation, because on its face, it's just a search power.

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Speaker 1: And look, if somebody really is out to defy the

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Speaker 1: patch band and wants to hold on to there and

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Speaker 1: thinking here, no matter what, then that search is going

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Speaker 1: to have to be more than just look at what's

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Speaker 1: on the wall kind of thing. And no one seems

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Speaker 1: to have paid attention to that. So they're reaching into

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Speaker 1: homes as a pretty big concern. And it's exactly for

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Speaker 1: that reason you'd expect that it would have been consulted

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Speaker 1: on rather than put it in a last sort of

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Speaker 1: late amendments.

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Speaker 2: And what would you like the government to do now,

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Speaker 2: given that they have done this without consultation.

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Speaker 1: Well, the Law Society has written an open letter, which

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Speaker 1: no doubt you've seen, just requesting the amendment be withdrawn.

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Speaker 1: And so I guess that's the first thing. And if

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Speaker 1: they can't do that, then it's back to the legislation

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Speaker 1: or back to Select Committee for consultation on it. And

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Speaker 1: as a final point, the Law Society said, look, if

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Speaker 1: you're going to do. If you're not going to do

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Speaker 1: any of those things, then take out the search power

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Speaker 1: and have us think about the timing that you've currently

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Speaker 1: got in there, because I'm not going to try and

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Speaker 1: get my head around I've just got off a late flight, unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: But my recollection is there's a technical issue with the

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Speaker 1: way that the repeater sending is described as dating from

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Speaker 1: conviction as opposed to from the hearing itself. And that's

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Speaker 1: kind of a lovely lawyer's point, but it's not like

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Speaker 1: it's going to move the needle very much. But it's

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Speaker 1: the sort of thing you dine out before you enacted

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Speaker 1: legislation normally, so that it all works as intended.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, Chris, thank you. Always appreciate your time. That's

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Speaker 2: Chris Macklin of the Law Society.

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