1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,160
Speaker 1: A couple of stories in their news today which you

2
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,840
Speaker 1: will you will notice one of them, and I'll just

3
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,000
Speaker 1: read you the first line from this story. Ministry of

4
00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:11,320
Speaker 1: Social Development officials warned their minister that using payment cards

5
00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:16,960
Speaker 1: as a sanction for beneficiaries can be stigmatizing and open

6
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:23,239
Speaker 1: to exploitation. What so, either the poor things will stigmatize them,

7
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,880
Speaker 1: will tarnish their good reputations, or those bludges that will

8
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 1: just exploit the hell out of the cards. You know,

9
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,280
Speaker 1: which is it? Are they bad? Are they good? It

10
00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,879
Speaker 1: just seems a very confused piece of advice from the

11
00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,879
Speaker 1: Ministry for Social Development in my eyes. At least you

12
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:39,880
Speaker 1: know they're going to flog them off these cards on.

13
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,560
Speaker 2: Facebook, sell them or are we tarnishing their good reputations

14
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,480
Speaker 2: by giving them to them in the first place. When

15
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,879
Speaker 2: you design a system, a safety net like this, it

16
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 2: should be done for the dignity and the simplicity of

17
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,520
Speaker 2: those who desperately need it. I think we can all

18
00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:58,160
Speaker 2: agree with that.

19
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,760
Speaker 1: However, you need to have enough hoops and barriers and

20
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,840
Speaker 1: checks and balances for those who would exploit the system.

21
00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 1: We're good people, we're fair minded people, as kiwis, But

22
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,039
Speaker 1: there are dicks among us, who rip systems off, who

23
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,399
Speaker 1: don't look after their kids, who don't use the money

24
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,600
Speaker 1: for the purpose of feeding their families, etc. Those people

25
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,959
Speaker 1: do exist, and treating them with free cash and no

26
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 1: consequences is not going to change that situation, surely not.

27
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,960
Speaker 1: Why would you change when everything is just handed to

28
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,000
Speaker 1: you on a silver platter, and whether that's cash or

29
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,280
Speaker 1: whether it's a card, you're not going to solve that problem.

30
00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 1: So you have to It is a balancing act, but

31
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,720
Speaker 1: you have to design a system that is there for

32
00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,280
Speaker 1: people who need it, but also can't be exploited by

33
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:47,520
Speaker 1: those who would seek to do so.

34
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 2: For more from Early edition with Ryan Bridge, Listen live

35
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,920
Speaker 2: to News Talks it'd be from five am weekdays, or

36
00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 2: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio