1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks be follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,133 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,613 --> 00:00:19,293 Speaker 2: On the back of the horrific news of the mass 4 00:00:19,293 --> 00:00:21,692 Speaker 2: shooting in Bondai Beach, What should you do if you 5 00:00:21,733 --> 00:00:24,813 Speaker 2: find yourself in a mass shooter event? Lance Burdette spent 6 00:00:24,853 --> 00:00:26,893 Speaker 2: twenty two years as a police officer, becoming the League 7 00:00:26,933 --> 00:00:30,092 Speaker 2: crisis Negotiator. He was described as the most qualified and 8 00:00:30,133 --> 00:00:32,853 Speaker 2: highly skilled negotiator within the New Zealand Police, training with 9 00:00:32,853 --> 00:00:36,732 Speaker 2: the elite tactical units of Police, Corrections, Fire, Military and 10 00:00:36,773 --> 00:00:39,533 Speaker 2: the FBI. He also oversaw the protection of the Prime 11 00:00:39,573 --> 00:00:42,492 Speaker 2: Minister and those on the Witness Protection Program, so he 12 00:00:42,533 --> 00:00:45,492 Speaker 2: certainly knows his stuff and Lance Burdette joins us now 13 00:00:45,613 --> 00:00:46,613 Speaker 2: Lance for a good afternoons. 14 00:00:46,653 --> 00:00:50,253 Speaker 3: You good afternoon, guys. There, you going very good. 15 00:00:50,492 --> 00:00:52,572 Speaker 4: What's the very first thing people should do when they 16 00:00:52,653 --> 00:00:56,773 Speaker 4: realize they're involved in an active shooter or terrorist situation? 17 00:00:58,333 --> 00:01:00,893 Speaker 3: Yeah, heaven for the what a terrible situation to be in. 18 00:01:01,973 --> 00:01:04,373 Speaker 3: The first thing is if you happen to be right 19 00:01:04,453 --> 00:01:06,613 Speaker 3: in the center of what's going on, is just drop 20 00:01:06,653 --> 00:01:09,973 Speaker 3: on the floor and whether it know it's outside, drop 21 00:01:09,973 --> 00:01:11,853 Speaker 3: wherever you are just drop on the ground and lie 22 00:01:11,893 --> 00:01:14,693 Speaker 3: as flat as you can. Don't go into a ball 23 00:01:14,773 --> 00:01:16,893 Speaker 3: or because you're a bigger target, so it's as flat 24 00:01:16,893 --> 00:01:20,533 Speaker 3: as you can. And then if you have the opportunity, 25 00:01:20,613 --> 00:01:24,133 Speaker 3: it's called run high tel or some use the it's 26 00:01:24,133 --> 00:01:27,212 Speaker 3: called escape hihtail escapers if you're in a building, so 27 00:01:27,253 --> 00:01:30,813 Speaker 3: the idea is not to hang around, running the opposite 28 00:01:30,813 --> 00:01:35,973 Speaker 3: direction to where the shooting's coming from. That's the best opportunity, 29 00:01:35,973 --> 00:01:37,533 Speaker 3: to be honest, If you lie on the ground for 30 00:01:37,572 --> 00:01:40,373 Speaker 3: too long, the chances are there's a higher risk, So 31 00:01:40,413 --> 00:01:43,133 Speaker 3: you get up and run as far away as you can. 32 00:01:43,173 --> 00:01:45,693 Speaker 3: Now if you can't, like for example, you're in a 33 00:01:45,733 --> 00:01:48,213 Speaker 3: building and you can't get out of the building, there 34 00:01:48,293 --> 00:01:50,373 Speaker 3: is to get into a room and barricade that room, 35 00:01:50,813 --> 00:01:52,773 Speaker 3: and once you're in a safe position, then you call 36 00:01:52,853 --> 00:01:53,333 Speaker 3: for police. 37 00:01:54,213 --> 00:01:57,893 Speaker 4: In crowded situations, is often a long time before people 38 00:01:58,293 --> 00:02:01,053 Speaker 4: you know, I've seen a lot of this footage, horrible, 39 00:02:01,053 --> 00:02:04,253 Speaker 4: horrible footage in my time, and people just don't know 40 00:02:04,293 --> 00:02:06,333 Speaker 4: what's happening for it for a long time. So what 41 00:02:06,413 --> 00:02:10,692 Speaker 4: warning signs should trigger immediate reaction and action rather than hesitation. 42 00:02:12,693 --> 00:02:17,213 Speaker 3: So really it's a there's a technique called the star technique. 43 00:02:17,213 --> 00:02:19,173 Speaker 3: It's one that I recommend and I do in my 44 00:02:19,293 --> 00:02:23,333 Speaker 3: training workshops. You stop what you're doing, you think, act, 45 00:02:23,493 --> 00:02:26,453 Speaker 3: and then review. Now the stop is obviously you stand 46 00:02:26,453 --> 00:02:28,373 Speaker 3: where you are for a moment, and then the only 47 00:02:28,413 --> 00:02:31,253 Speaker 3: way you can think, because you'll be in possibly in 48 00:02:31,293 --> 00:02:36,173 Speaker 3: fight or flight or unknowing what's happened. Just breathe out now. 49 00:02:36,613 --> 00:02:38,613 Speaker 3: If you were to do it right now, if anyone 50 00:02:38,653 --> 00:02:40,333 Speaker 3: listening would do it right now. You breathe out as 51 00:02:40,373 --> 00:02:42,692 Speaker 3: slowly as you can and breathe out fully. All of 52 00:02:42,733 --> 00:02:45,613 Speaker 3: a sudden, you become relaxed. So when we breathe in, 53 00:02:45,733 --> 00:02:47,693 Speaker 3: our heart rate goes up, which looks what we're wired 54 00:02:47,733 --> 00:02:49,532 Speaker 3: to do for fight or flight. Take a big, deep breath, 55 00:02:49,532 --> 00:02:52,412 Speaker 3: and then we'll so the faster you breathe, the faster heart, 56 00:02:52,453 --> 00:02:54,773 Speaker 3: the faster the head. So you breathe out and just 57 00:02:54,813 --> 00:02:56,733 Speaker 3: hold for a moment, and that'll give you the idea 58 00:02:56,773 --> 00:03:01,453 Speaker 3: of something's not right, because it's almost like having been 59 00:03:01,493 --> 00:03:04,293 Speaker 3: in a few situations like this, it's like a dream, 60 00:03:04,453 --> 00:03:07,653 Speaker 3: kind of dream world. You go into. Everything seems unreal, 61 00:03:08,133 --> 00:03:10,053 Speaker 3: and so the idea is to really try and snap 62 00:03:10,053 --> 00:03:13,613 Speaker 3: yourself out of that, so breathing out does that, and 63 00:03:13,653 --> 00:03:17,093 Speaker 3: then once something happens, you can't hang around. The other 64 00:03:17,133 --> 00:03:19,532 Speaker 3: thing humans are trained to do is help each other, 65 00:03:20,053 --> 00:03:23,413 Speaker 3: and I'm afraid to say that's the last thing you 66 00:03:23,453 --> 00:03:26,213 Speaker 3: should be doing. You're better off getting away and being 67 00:03:26,213 --> 00:03:29,733 Speaker 3: able to tell emergency services what's going on once you 68 00:03:29,733 --> 00:03:31,293 Speaker 3: get out to a safe place. 69 00:03:31,453 --> 00:03:33,253 Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting in the last twenty four hours, so 70 00:03:33,293 --> 00:03:36,573 Speaker 4: we've seen this hero at BONDI taking down this evil 71 00:03:36,573 --> 00:03:40,293 Speaker 4: man and he's being rightly lauded as a hero. So when, 72 00:03:40,453 --> 00:03:43,373 Speaker 4: if ever, is fighting back the right option. 73 00:03:44,773 --> 00:03:47,493 Speaker 3: So when you're trapped or when you happen to be 74 00:03:47,653 --> 00:03:50,133 Speaker 3: close to the situation, if you think you're able to 75 00:03:50,173 --> 00:03:54,893 Speaker 3: do it, the idea is to grab the weapon, not 76 00:03:54,973 --> 00:03:58,813 Speaker 3: the person. So don't grab the person, grab the weapon 77 00:03:58,853 --> 00:04:00,493 Speaker 3: and then you can steer it into the ground and 78 00:04:00,573 --> 00:04:03,253 Speaker 3: just scream out for and scream as loud and you 79 00:04:03,293 --> 00:04:06,733 Speaker 3: know it a horrible word you can think of, so 80 00:04:06,773 --> 00:04:09,493 Speaker 3: that somebody will come and help you. So you grab 81 00:04:09,573 --> 00:04:10,253 Speaker 3: it down to the ground. 82 00:04:10,293 --> 00:04:12,653 Speaker 4: You grab the weapon, not the person. That's interesting because 83 00:04:12,653 --> 00:04:15,493 Speaker 4: he jumped around the shoulders and he did get shot, 84 00:04:15,613 --> 00:04:17,613 Speaker 4: but I think he's going to be all right. But 85 00:04:18,213 --> 00:04:20,013 Speaker 4: you say, just grab the weapon. 86 00:04:20,973 --> 00:04:23,253 Speaker 3: Well, that's the weapons the danger. So if you can 87 00:04:23,253 --> 00:04:25,973 Speaker 3: grab that and push it down to the ground and 88 00:04:26,013 --> 00:04:28,373 Speaker 3: then force the person backwards and just keep pushing them 89 00:04:28,373 --> 00:04:30,973 Speaker 3: backwards and they'll trip up, that's the idea of it. 90 00:04:30,973 --> 00:04:33,333 Speaker 3: But look, it's easy to say, hard to do, right. 91 00:04:33,573 --> 00:04:37,493 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So what about people who they might know 92 00:04:37,613 --> 00:04:40,733 Speaker 2: this technique or this situation and they feel that they 93 00:04:40,733 --> 00:04:42,853 Speaker 2: can do the breathing and get a handle on the 94 00:04:42,893 --> 00:04:45,173 Speaker 2: situation more than others around them because it is such 95 00:04:45,173 --> 00:04:48,973 Speaker 2: a panicked, terrifying situation to be in. Would they be 96 00:04:49,173 --> 00:04:52,213 Speaker 2: better to try and direct people out the escape or 97 00:04:52,253 --> 00:04:54,453 Speaker 2: to try and do what they can to make it 98 00:04:54,493 --> 00:04:56,653 Speaker 2: easy for other people Or that's the wrong advice. Even 99 00:04:56,653 --> 00:04:59,093 Speaker 2: if you can keep your head clear, the advice still 100 00:04:59,133 --> 00:05:01,173 Speaker 2: should be to get yourself out. You need to focus 101 00:05:01,173 --> 00:05:01,733 Speaker 2: on yourself. 102 00:05:03,013 --> 00:05:05,733 Speaker 3: Well, I think if you're if you're trained in some way, 103 00:05:05,773 --> 00:05:10,133 Speaker 3: then you go along with your training. Now, any emergency services, 104 00:05:10,533 --> 00:05:13,133 Speaker 3: not just police, are trained to run to the danger, 105 00:05:13,293 --> 00:05:15,413 Speaker 3: not run away from it. And so if you have 106 00:05:15,533 --> 00:05:17,893 Speaker 3: that sort of experience, or you're in security industry, then 107 00:05:18,173 --> 00:05:20,413 Speaker 3: by all means, if you feel that you're able to 108 00:05:20,413 --> 00:05:23,293 Speaker 3: help and feel that you're able in control, then then 109 00:05:23,373 --> 00:05:25,733 Speaker 3: please do get involved as much as you can, and 110 00:05:25,733 --> 00:05:27,853 Speaker 3: that is by getting as many people away as possible 111 00:05:27,893 --> 00:05:30,293 Speaker 3: to reduce the likelihood of casualty. 112 00:05:30,773 --> 00:05:35,573 Speaker 4: Now, of course these are chaotic situations when police arrive. 113 00:05:36,373 --> 00:05:38,853 Speaker 4: So how should people behave when police do turn up 114 00:05:38,893 --> 00:05:41,573 Speaker 4: to avoid being mistaken for a threat, because we've all 115 00:05:41,733 --> 00:05:44,213 Speaker 4: seen that happen with something The police don't know what's 116 00:05:44,253 --> 00:05:47,653 Speaker 4: going on then, and they can be through collateral damage. 117 00:05:49,213 --> 00:05:52,773 Speaker 3: It's never run towards police. It's just to stand where 118 00:05:52,813 --> 00:05:55,893 Speaker 3: you are or just again lie down on the ground. 119 00:05:56,693 --> 00:05:59,053 Speaker 3: The chances are when police arrive they don't know who 120 00:05:59,293 --> 00:06:01,693 Speaker 3: is the threat and who isn't, and if you're running 121 00:06:01,733 --> 00:06:04,893 Speaker 3: towards them, you can get hurt, particularly if they can't 122 00:06:04,933 --> 00:06:07,533 Speaker 3: see your hands. So the idea is to stand where 123 00:06:07,573 --> 00:06:10,173 Speaker 3: you are, not run towards them, and let the police 124 00:06:10,213 --> 00:06:12,773 Speaker 3: come towards you, drop on the ground, lie as flat 125 00:06:12,773 --> 00:06:15,133 Speaker 3: as you can, and if you can, put your lock 126 00:06:15,173 --> 00:06:17,493 Speaker 3: your hands in behind your head so that they can 127 00:06:17,533 --> 00:06:20,013 Speaker 3: see that your hands are locked and that you have 128 00:06:20,133 --> 00:06:23,373 Speaker 3: no weapon and they will feel safe. And what they'll 129 00:06:23,413 --> 00:06:26,733 Speaker 3: do is, in most occasions they just tend to arrest everything, 130 00:06:28,253 --> 00:06:30,773 Speaker 3: not so much arrest, but detain everybody, and so you 131 00:06:30,893 --> 00:06:33,093 Speaker 3: might put you in place to cuffs, ye, and then 132 00:06:33,413 --> 00:06:36,773 Speaker 3: work out who's the wrong, the workout what's happened yet. 133 00:06:37,013 --> 00:06:40,053 Speaker 4: Yep, we're talking about Lance Bertett, who's spent twenty two 134 00:06:40,133 --> 00:06:43,253 Speaker 4: years as a police officer becoming lead crisis negotiator. Now, 135 00:06:43,333 --> 00:06:45,933 Speaker 4: it's an incredibly rare event these kind of things in 136 00:06:45,973 --> 00:06:47,893 Speaker 4: a country like New Zealand. I mean, it does happen, 137 00:06:47,933 --> 00:06:49,573 Speaker 4: but they are rare. How much time should kee we 138 00:06:49,613 --> 00:06:52,373 Speaker 4: spend worrying about this kind of thing compared to other 139 00:06:52,453 --> 00:06:53,973 Speaker 4: threats and everyday life. 140 00:06:55,133 --> 00:06:57,413 Speaker 3: Look, you've got a much higher chance of having a 141 00:06:57,453 --> 00:06:59,493 Speaker 3: serious motor accent than you do. You're having me anything 142 00:06:59,493 --> 00:07:02,213 Speaker 3: else happening to you, So you know, focusing on what 143 00:07:02,293 --> 00:07:06,213 Speaker 3: you can control. These things are highly unlikely, as you say, 144 00:07:06,253 --> 00:07:09,533 Speaker 3: but they do happen on occasion. It really is about 145 00:07:09,653 --> 00:07:12,173 Speaker 3: just thinking about what am I going to do? So 146 00:07:12,573 --> 00:07:16,653 Speaker 3: and I just three things I talk about as stop 147 00:07:16,893 --> 00:07:19,773 Speaker 3: breathe out, and then you think yourself, should I stay 148 00:07:19,853 --> 00:07:21,493 Speaker 3: or should I leave? And that's the only thing that 149 00:07:21,533 --> 00:07:24,213 Speaker 3: you should ever do in every situation. And I make 150 00:07:24,253 --> 00:07:25,773 Speaker 3: a joke about should I stay or should I go, 151 00:07:26,013 --> 00:07:29,413 Speaker 3: so you stand still, breathe out? Am I going to 152 00:07:29,413 --> 00:07:31,733 Speaker 3: stay here? Am I going to leave? That first decision? 153 00:07:31,773 --> 00:07:34,893 Speaker 3: And every single emergency situations it doesn't change. 154 00:07:35,053 --> 00:07:37,613 Speaker 4: And speaking of breathing, on another issue, you've got a 155 00:07:37,613 --> 00:07:40,853 Speaker 4: fantastic book, Anxiety as a Worry, and there's a lot 156 00:07:40,893 --> 00:07:43,213 Speaker 4: of stuff in that about breathing that I personally found 157 00:07:43,293 --> 00:07:45,333 Speaker 4: very helpful. So you're a great New Zealander. 158 00:07:45,453 --> 00:07:48,493 Speaker 3: Great, thank you, Oh, thank you very much, very kind. 159 00:07:49,333 --> 00:07:51,973 Speaker 2: It's great, great to have you on the program as always, Lance, 160 00:07:52,133 --> 00:07:54,773 Speaker 2: thank you very much for your expertise, and you have 161 00:07:54,813 --> 00:07:56,733 Speaker 2: a good Christmas and New Year and we'll catch up 162 00:07:56,773 --> 00:07:59,293 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six. That is Lance Burdette. He was 163 00:07:59,333 --> 00:08:01,213 Speaker 2: a police officer for twenty two years. He became the 164 00:08:01,293 --> 00:08:05,853 Speaker 2: lead crisis negotiator, So some very timely advice there. Thank 165 00:08:05,893 --> 00:08:06,693 Speaker 2: you very much. 166 00:08:07,213 --> 00:08:10,133 Speaker 1: For more from News Talk B listen live on air 167 00:08:10,333 --> 00:08:13,013 Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you 168 00:08:13,093 --> 00:08:15,533 Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.