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Speaker 1: A violent extremist attack in New Zealand is a realistic possibility.

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Speaker 1: This is according to the sas their latest security report says,

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Speaker 1: We're up against the most challenging national security environment in

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Speaker 1: recent times. Foreign espinage is happening here, likely happening here

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Speaker 1: without us even knowing, targeting sensitive information and critical infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: John Badisby is a Massi University Center of Center for

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Speaker 1: Defense and Security Studies with me this morning, John, Good morning,

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you. Do you find this alarming?

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Speaker 2: I don't know they find it alarming. I think I've

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Speaker 2: often been critical of New Zealand has been a little

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Speaker 2: bit complacent about security issues and that we really do

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Speaker 2: need to face up to the fact that the world

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Speaker 2: is changing and that there are new things happening out

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Speaker 2: there and they're not always good. So we do need

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Speaker 2: to be a lot more aware of the types of

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Speaker 2: security risks that exist. Now, whether I would say it's alarming,

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Speaker 2: I'm not too sure. I think a number of these

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Speaker 2: thinking all of these things are listed in this threat assessment,

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Speaker 2: have been sitting for a sitting with us for quite

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Speaker 2: some time.

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Speaker 1: Now, and there's no I mean, it's the sis. So

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Speaker 1: the how they're going to tell you all their workings

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Speaker 1: and exactly what they're thinking is right and where the

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Speaker 1: threats are and who they are. Is there enough detail

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Speaker 1: to go off for you to be confident in their assessment.

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Speaker 2: I think there's enough contextual detail to be to be

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Speaker 2: confident that, yes, those security risks exist with this type

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Speaker 2: of report. And as you say, there's just they don't

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Speaker 2: give a lot of detail. There is a fair bit

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Speaker 2: of glossy, large, large text in this, so they don't

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Speaker 2: really provide enough evidence to convince me that it's way

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Speaker 2: worse than it was last year. But then they know

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Speaker 2: things we don't, and it's sort of one little advantage

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Speaker 2: they have. It wouldn't surprise me if things have got

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Speaker 2: a little bit worse. The geostrategic situation the Pacific is changing.

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Speaker 2: There's a new contender on the block has been there

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Speaker 2: for a while. That's going to affect how the Pacific

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Speaker 2: is Online extremism, I can't see that it's ever going

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Speaker 2: to reduce year on year. It's just going to be

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Speaker 2: so more common each year, I think, so. I think

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Speaker 2: that's probably there. And espionage, that's something we've been a

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Speaker 2: slip to for a long time. That is happening here,

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Speaker 2: has been happening here on off I think for some time.

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Speaker 1: Is that like, do you mean a tax on infrastructure

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Speaker 1: cyber attacks that kind of thing, or do you mean

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Speaker 1: physical espionage spies?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I would say both. And the actors that

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Speaker 2: are doing the cyber attack can be state based or

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Speaker 2: they can just be malicious actors, right, So that's not

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Speaker 2: becoming a less of a risk ever. And espionage, you know,

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Speaker 2: look right back into the Cold War. If there's a

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Speaker 2: soft option somewhere, there are states contending for influence in

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Speaker 2: geostrategic spaces, then yes, there will be a degree of

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Speaker 2: espionage going on here.

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Speaker 1: John, appreciate your time this morning, John Badisbury, Massive University

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Speaker 1: Center for Defense and Security Studies. For more from Early

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