Speaker 1: You're listening to the Resident Builder podcast with Peter Wolfcamp
Speaker 1: from news Talks at by Meta twice God once, but
Speaker 1: maybe call Pete first. Peter wolf Camp, The Resident Builder
Speaker 1: News Talk said by.
Speaker 2: The House Sizzoro, even when it's dark, even when the
Speaker 2: grass is overgrown in.
Speaker 3: The yard, even when the dog is too old to bar,
Speaker 3: and when you're sitting at the table trying not to
Speaker 3: start scissor.
Speaker 4: Home, even when we are benn.
Speaker 5: Even when you're there.
Speaker 2: House sizzor Home, even when those ghost when you go
Speaker 2: around from the ones you love, your move scream, bolting pains,
Speaker 2: appeel in front of the world.
Speaker 3: Locals vestible when they're gone, leaving them, even when we'll
Speaker 3: be even when you're in there alone.
Speaker 5: Well, very very good morning, and welcome along to the
Speaker 5: Resident Builder on Sunday. You're with me Pete wolf Camp,
Speaker 5: the Resident Builder, and we are here to talk about building. Surprise, surprise.
Speaker 5: We are going to talk about all of the myriad
Speaker 5: elements involved in building and construction, whether that's the planning,
Speaker 5: the thinking, or the doing, the actual hands on or
Speaker 5: the legislative framework that allows us to build. In fact,
Speaker 5: I just of open emails and I've been having sort
Speaker 5: of an ongoing discussion with a gentleman who emailed the
Speaker 5: other day saying, hey, look, I think that you can
Speaker 5: actually change the size of windows under Schedule one of
Speaker 5: the Building Act. I'm disagreeing, and so anyway, that's an
Speaker 5: ongoing sort of intellectual I guess it is theoretical discussion
Speaker 5: around what's included and Schedule one of the Building Act
Speaker 5: in terms of work that you could do without necessarily
Speaker 5: requiring it consent. So we can talk about that sort
Speaker 5: of side of things, the legislation, the rules and regulations,
Speaker 5: how you stay on the right side of compliance, because
Speaker 5: certainly when you stray off that, it becomes it's just
Speaker 5: murky territory. It's a quagmire out there. If you stay
Speaker 5: on the path, it's all good. If you wander off,
Speaker 5: it'll take you places you don't want to go, and
Speaker 5: it'll take you a long time to get back to
Speaker 5: the path. In fact, during the course of the week,
Speaker 5: just by the Bye, I was reading through a LIMB
Speaker 5: report for a property, and the main reason that I
Speaker 5: read through them is that I'm looking for information about
Speaker 5: building consents that were issued and whether or not they've
Speaker 5: been signed off and have been issued a code Compliance
Speaker 5: Certificate at the end of it. And typically for all
Speaker 5: of the ones that I've read, and it would be
Speaker 5: a reasonable number nowadays, it will talk about a building consent,
Speaker 5: it'll give a rough description of the work, extension, alterations,
Speaker 5: new garage, et cetera, et cetera, and then it will
Speaker 5: say either CCC issued or no CCC issued. And the
Speaker 5: other day I read one that said CCC declined and
Speaker 5: it was note ten and it talked about determinations which
Speaker 5: are either with the Building Content Authority, the BCA, or
Speaker 5: with the Ministry of Housing and Construction which has now
Speaker 5: gone it's all part of mb now And I was like, well,
Speaker 5: that's really intriguing. So somewhere along the line Council have
Speaker 5: refused to issue ACCC as a result of a determination,
Speaker 5: so obviously there was an argument there. That's what I'm
Speaker 5: saying about the legislation. Or we can get into the
Speaker 5: practical stuff. What do you choose, what do you need,
Speaker 5: what do you use and when do you use it?
Speaker 5: And also in terms of tradespeople and contracting and getting
Speaker 5: the right people to do the right job at the
Speaker 5: right time and for the right price. We can talk
Speaker 5: about all of these sorts of things. So if you've
Speaker 5: got a project that you're undertaking, perhaps you've got a
Speaker 5: project that you're thinking about doing in the some stage
Speaker 5: in the future, or perhaps you've got a project that
Speaker 5: you've got stuck into and it's not quite going the
Speaker 5: way that you thought it would go. Well, all of
Speaker 5: these things within building, construction, renovating, altering. Maybe you're looking
Speaker 5: to make a really good house and you want to
Speaker 5: know how to go about that. We can talk about
Speaker 5: all these things on the program this morning. So eight
Speaker 5: hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. The
Speaker 5: texts are up and running. It's nine two nine two
Speaker 5: is zbzb from your mobile phone. And if you'd like
Speaker 5: to see anym well, you are more than welcome. It's
Speaker 5: Pete at newstooks headb dot co dot nz. So like
Speaker 5: Gary has taken the opportunity to email, if you'd like
Speaker 5: to email, like I say, it's Pete at newstooks headb
Speaker 5: dot co dot en zaid, now I trust you've had
Speaker 5: a good week. Suddenly I don't know whether it's just me,
Speaker 5: but suddenly we've gone from summer. Gosh, I'm leaving the
Speaker 5: windows open at night, hoping that it's not going to
Speaker 5: be twenty five degrees in the bedroom at night. That
Speaker 5: sort of thing too. I was doing some stuff in
Speaker 5: the kitchen, thinking, oh, I'm just going to close the window.
Speaker 5: It's got a bit chilly. All of a sudden, I
Speaker 5: came into the city yesterday to do a little session
Speaker 5: with Tim Beveridge and Anna Burns Francis on the radio,
Speaker 5: and suddenly there's leaves on the you know, all the
Speaker 5: big plane trees around the edge of Victoria Park. The
Speaker 5: wind's blowing, it's dropping the leaves. Suddenly it's autumnal out there,
Speaker 5: which is lovely into I mean, I think the weather's fantastic.
Speaker 5: I'd love to have a little more rain, but it's beautiful.
Speaker 5: But also it sort of signals that time where if
Speaker 5: you've thought like I have right, I've got these jobs,
Speaker 5: I'm going to get them done over summer, suddenly you're thinking,
Speaker 5: I don't have that many days left, right, the weather's
Speaker 5: going to turn, it's going to get cold. Maybe I
Speaker 5: can't start as earlier, I can't paint as late in
Speaker 5: the day. So if there's some projects that you want
Speaker 5: to get out of the way before autumn really kicks
Speaker 5: in and before winter sets in we can talk about
Speaker 5: those as well, but right now the opportunity is all yours.
Speaker 5: Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
Speaker 5: We're going to chat to a builder a little bit
Speaker 5: later on about using jaframe, which is really cool. Also,
Speaker 5: I have had the opportunity of having a fairly lengthy discussion,
Speaker 5: thankfully with Professor David Welch Welsh rather, who is a
Speaker 5: professor of audiology at the Auckland University, so essentially a
Speaker 5: scientist who spent his life looking at audiology, hearing and
Speaker 5: in particular hearing loss. It's a little bit, I'll be
Speaker 5: really honest, it's a bit of a crusade for me,
Speaker 5: and it took me a while to find someone who
Speaker 5: could speak really honestly around hearing loss and the need
Speaker 5: for hearing protection. So I've had that discussion with him.
Speaker 5: He's going to join us just after eight o'clock this morning,
Speaker 5: after eight to thirty. Of course, we're into the garden
Speaker 5: with the delightful and effervescent red cline Pass, doctor ridclin
Speaker 5: Pass after eight thirty this morning, talking gardening and all
Speaker 5: things entomololgical. So looking forward to that as well, but
Speaker 5: right now it's your opportunity. What's on your mind? What
Speaker 5: would you like to talk about? What concerns you? Troubles
Speaker 5: you keeps you awake at night when it comes to
Speaker 5: building and construction. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
Speaker 5: is the number to call. And a very good morning
Speaker 5: to you, Lisa.
Speaker 6: How are you paying?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm very well in yourself.
Speaker 6: Good thank you.
Speaker 7: Hi.
Speaker 8: Am.
Speaker 9: So I've got a bit of an interesting one for you.
Speaker 9: About eleven years ago, I purchased a house, you know,
Speaker 9: like one of those I said a pronounce.
Speaker 4: For being leaky buildings.
Speaker 9: But I got a building report done on it and
Speaker 9: it was perfectly sound at the time, and had my
Speaker 9: lawyer chip this title and the real estate agent.
Speaker 6: You know, the.
Speaker 9: The checked it out thoroughly as well. And when I
Speaker 9: went to sell it three years later, the agent pulled
Speaker 9: a limb and it had no cc on it that
Speaker 9: anyone everyone had overlooked and fluted myself because I didn't
Speaker 9: pull a limb when.
Speaker 8: I purchased it.
Speaker 9: So got on breakfast. So looking into looking into you know,
Speaker 9: the whole situation further. What happened was it built on
Speaker 9: in a sheared driveway, where I don't own the driveway.
Speaker 9: I've just got legal access to the driveway, and the
Speaker 9: same building company, A One Builders, built two houses on
Speaker 9: that driveway and the only thing that wasn't signed off
Speaker 9: on my property were the piles that wanted piles.
Speaker 4: That have not shifted.
Speaker 9: It's fully healthy homes Compliant had had the piles have
Speaker 9: not shifted, And as far as the council is concerned,
Speaker 9: I has to. It has to be apt to building
Speaker 9: code of today, not you know, the odd years ago when.
Speaker 10: It was built.
Speaker 9: So I get that, but I'm just a little bit
Speaker 9: perplexed because I ended up beinging in touch with the
Speaker 9: solicitor who did a big project was towering houses at
Speaker 9: the crossing that were put I don't know if you
Speaker 9: heard about that, that there was a big drama, whether
Speaker 9: it made the news over and over again. I spoke
Speaker 9: to that barrister. His opinion, I receiveral phone walls and
Speaker 9: lots of digging around, and either I'm saying, no, it's
Speaker 9: not our problem because read the disclaimer on the report
Speaker 9: indicators that what I should be doing is just getting
Speaker 9: rid of it just to sell us right. So I
Speaker 9: am in the process now of renovating that house with
Speaker 9: my partner and we're just going to turn it into
Speaker 9: a rental. Do you think a that's a good idea?
Speaker 7: Am I?
Speaker 4: Legally?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Well okay, okay, so just excuse me, sorry, craky, Hey, sorry,
Speaker 5: I'm just just at the end of that bloody cold
Speaker 5: that's been hanging around all week. Peacht it's really good
Speaker 5: looked in peacht I'll put that on the list.
Speaker 9: Yeah, lovely.
Speaker 5: I mean, Hindsight's is twenty twenty. But I'm surprised that
Speaker 5: something as straightforward as reading the limb when you purchase
Speaker 5: the house eleven years ago, and we're not talking the
Speaker 5: dark past when these things didn't exist, right, that no
Speaker 5: one realized that, hey, building consent such and such never
Speaker 5: got sea and I presume that the building consent for
Speaker 5: the original work was done. Is the house older than
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety one when was the house itself built?
Speaker 9: It is just older than nineteen ninety one and everything
Speaker 9: out of the building.
Speaker 5: The reason that that's really really important is that around
Speaker 5: ninety ninety one is when the Building Act changed and
Speaker 5: we had the introduction of essentially a different framework. We
Speaker 5: went from building permits to building consents, building consents require
Speaker 5: a CCC to be issued to complete them. Building permits don't, right,
Speaker 5: So it just wasn't part of the legislation, So you
Speaker 5: can't be expected to get a CCC for something that
Speaker 5: had a building permit. So I just wonder whether, and
Speaker 5: I'm sure sure your lawyers have already checked this, but
Speaker 5: you'd need to go back and look at the detail
Speaker 5: and go did this building get a building permit or
Speaker 5: did it get a building consent? Is it pre nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety one or post nineteen ninety one, in which case
Speaker 5: it's irrelevant. Right, Well, it's highly relevant because you don't
Speaker 5: need one. So but let's say it's post nineteen ninety
Speaker 5: one and there is a building consent that never got
Speaker 5: its CCC, and you're now trying to get the CCC.
Speaker 5: That is going to be a reasonably challenging process, right
Speaker 5: So if but at the same time, if what you've
Speaker 5: done is identify the fact that the only thing that
Speaker 5: was not signed off was the house piles, you could
Speaker 5: potentially have a building survey or an engineer come do
Speaker 5: an investigation, determine that it's compliant, and then that would
Speaker 5: give you a pathway to two compliance and then the
Speaker 5: other thing that you know, it's a really interesting one
Speaker 5: and I haven't dug down to the bottom of this yet,
Speaker 5: but there someone sent me a ruling from the district
Speaker 5: court about a year ago where a landlord had a
Speaker 5: property that they were renting obviously that didn't have a CCC.
Speaker 5: The tenant took them to the tenancy tribunal to say,
Speaker 5: you're not supposed to rent a property. If you've got
Speaker 5: a house that you're renting and it's had work that
Speaker 5: required a CCC and you don't have one, you shouldn't
Speaker 5: be renting that house out.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 5: I think this has got quite wide ranging impacts, right
Speaker 5: because I respect but I've seen the ruling from the
Speaker 5: district court. I think it was actually in told wrong.
Speaker 5: So you know, in terms of you saying, well, look,
Speaker 5: we're just going to renovate it and rent it out,
Speaker 5: that might not be that straightforward either.
Speaker 9: Because it's really the story does have a bit more
Speaker 9: to it and both ends of the house needs to
Speaker 9: be reclared because of water proofing issues.
Speaker 5: Okay, well that requires a building consumer.
Speaker 6: Yeah, d and I never got one.
Speaker 5: I did lights a lot, okay, right, you've got a load. Anyway,
Speaker 5: It's not going to be simple. And look when we
Speaker 5: talk about sail and purchase and having a CCC and not,
Speaker 5: you can sell a building without a CCC right. So
Speaker 5: there's as a as an individual, I know, for developers
Speaker 5: or people in the trade. If you've built a house
Speaker 5: and you want to sell it. So if I'm if
Speaker 5: I do a speaky right as a as a licensed
Speaker 5: building practitioner, I can't sell it without a CCC because
Speaker 5: that's a requirement. If I'm a homeowner like you and
Speaker 5: I do some work on the property and I didn't
Speaker 5: get it, I didn't get it signed off or whatever,
Speaker 5: I can still sell the house without a CCC. But
Speaker 5: people will take that as a reason to beat you
Speaker 5: down on price. Basically is how I'd say.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and that number and as total on a market
Speaker 9: is about two hundred thousand dollars less basically land value.
Speaker 5: Essentially the house becomes a liability and you're just selling
Speaker 5: the land. Yeah, And part of that is someone it's
Speaker 5: an opportunity for someone else to go through the compliance pathway,
Speaker 5: take the risk and get the capital gain on that,
Speaker 5: or you decide that you're going to do it yourself
Speaker 5: and spend time and effort and probably a reasonable amount
Speaker 5: of money getting the building compliant in order to keep
Speaker 5: your value and the property. Yeah, but you know it
Speaker 5: in there is that intrigue around what date was the
Speaker 5: actual construction? When was the Huntrey five? Okay, then you're
Speaker 5: well within the criteria. It needs a CCCS. You take
Speaker 5: care all the best. Then eight hundred eighty ten eighty
Speaker 5: is the number to call. We can talk legislation, we
Speaker 5: can talk the practical stuff as well. If you've got
Speaker 5: a project on that you would like to talk about,
Speaker 5: call us now. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is
Speaker 5: that number to call. Got some interviews lined up for
Speaker 5: a little bit later on the show, so now it's
Speaker 5: a perfect time to call, and a couple of great
Speaker 5: texts as well. I'm going to have to think about
Speaker 5: this for a moment, morning, Pete. In the current economic climate,
Speaker 5: what would you expect to play as an hourly rate
Speaker 5: for a tradesman carpenter. I'm not asking what you think
Speaker 5: they're worth. I mean, in good times they're all worth
Speaker 5: a million dollars an hour. So when times aren't good,
Speaker 5: what would be realistic? And then they put out a number,
Speaker 5: We'll come back and look at that straight after the.
Speaker 1: Break doing other house storting the garden, asked Pete for
Speaker 1: a hand. It's a resident builder with Peter Wolfcap call
Speaker 1: eight hundred newstalks.
Speaker 5: The'd be, Yeah, your news talks, they'd be. The lines
Speaker 5: are open. The number to call eight hundred and eighty
Speaker 5: ten eighty twenty six minutes, almost twenty seven minutes after
Speaker 5: six give us a call because we've got some spare
Speaker 5: lines and it's it's going to get a little bit
Speaker 5: busy later in the show. So just before the break,
Speaker 5: this text came through morning Peak. In the current economic climate,
Speaker 5: what would you expect to pay hourly for a tradesman carpenter?
Speaker 5: I'm not asking what you think that they're worth, And
Speaker 5: then he goes on to explain, I mean, in good times,
Speaker 5: they're all worth a million dollars an hour. So when
Speaker 5: times aren't good, what would be a realistic rate dot
Speaker 5: dot dot thirty five dollars an hour. No, I mean, look,
Speaker 5: I'm sort of there's so many variables right with this,
Speaker 5: But my experience at the moment is typically like, even
Speaker 5: if I'm running a job and I'm getting guys in
Speaker 5: to do the work for me or with me, then
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, you charge out rates for someone
Speaker 5: who is self employed. So if you're ringing up and
Speaker 5: you're saying to an LBP trades person, so I qualified
Speaker 5: trades person, Hey, look, I need you to come around
Speaker 5: and we're going to knock the deck down and rebuild it. Right,
Speaker 5: So they're going to turn up. They are LBP, they've
Speaker 5: got all the year, they're going to work in accordance
Speaker 5: with the legislation. They're self employed. Maybe they bring with
Speaker 5: them one other person. I mean, you've got to be
Speaker 5: talking sixty seventy dollars an hour for the lead trades person,
Speaker 5: and they're probably going to charge out there, let's say,
Speaker 5: young fella at I don't know forty five fifty bucks
Speaker 5: an how they might be paying them twenty five thirty.
Speaker 5: It just it's so variable at the moment. And then
Speaker 5: I mean, I think I made this comment actually last
Speaker 5: week or the week before, and people piled in on
Speaker 5: the texts in terms of you know, when times are tight,
Speaker 5: do you do the consumers expect that hourly rates will drop.
Speaker 5: The really challenging thing from that, from the other side
Speaker 5: of it as a tradesperson, as a business owner, is
Speaker 5: that in many cases, your costs don't drop right. You're
Speaker 5: still paying your accountant, you're still paying your subscriptions, you've
Speaker 5: still got your insurance to cover. It's still at your
Speaker 5: vehicle insurance to cover. You've still got the replacement of
Speaker 5: tools and equipment, you've still got your LVP rates to pay,
Speaker 5: and all the rest of it. So I guess in
Speaker 5: good times you can. And scarcity we're talking about it yesterday.
Speaker 5: You know, in scarcity, obviously rates there's pressure on rates,
Speaker 5: and rates tend to go up, and when times are
Speaker 5: right now, it's not that busy to be fair, so
Speaker 5: we'd expect rates to go down. But I mean thirty
Speaker 5: five bucks an hour. If I was in that situation,
Speaker 5: if I was ringing and I was looking for someone
Speaker 5: who essentially was going to control the job, who was
Speaker 5: fully qualified, I know that wouldn't cut it. If I
Speaker 5: was running a gang of guys and I was looking
Speaker 5: for let's say, labor only carpenters, that all I required
Speaker 5: of them is that they rock up every morning at
Speaker 5: seven point thirty and they work till five. They've got
Speaker 5: their basic kit, they don't have to run the job,
Speaker 5: they don't have to supervise anything. Then maybe those rates
Speaker 5: still seems a little bit like to be fair. Certainly
Speaker 5: a couple of years ago, you'd struggle to find someone
Speaker 5: to come and work for you labor only if that
Speaker 5: was the rates you were paying. But look, in the end,
Speaker 5: all of these things are up for negotiation, right, And
Speaker 5: I've always thought too, there's a bit of a difference
Speaker 5: between let's say, getting someone to come for a relatively
Speaker 5: short job. This has always been the argument as to
Speaker 5: why rates for plumbers and electricians and so on are higher.
Speaker 5: Sometimes it's around qualification. Sometimes it's around the fact that
Speaker 5: they are not spending a long time on a job.
Speaker 5: Whereas you know, if you're doing an extens to your
Speaker 5: house and you've got an hourly rate for your carpenter,
Speaker 5: they might be there for four months, right, So for
Speaker 5: that person every day every week for four months, I
Speaker 5: know I've got work. So you go, okay, well, maybe
Speaker 5: I can shave an hour or two off my hourly
Speaker 5: rate because I know that I'm getting paid for forty
Speaker 5: forty five, maybe even fifty hours a week for the
Speaker 5: next six weeks or eight weeks, ten weeks, twelve weeks,
Speaker 5: whatever it's going to be. That's how I've always run it. Oh,
Speaker 5: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty Another quick one. Actually,
Speaker 5: this is a really interesting one. I got schooled on
Speaker 5: this a little while ago as well. What size deposit
Speaker 5: should I give on a twenty nine thousand dollars roofing job?
Speaker 5: Very good question. I have been fairly critical around and
Speaker 5: cautious around tradespeople builders in particular asking for large deposits
Speaker 5: on jobs, whether it's a small job or a large job,
Speaker 5: particularly in that media size thing. So again, let's go
Speaker 5: back to the deck thing. So you've got a deck
Speaker 5: that you need rebuilding. It's worth about twenty five thousand dollars.
Speaker 5: And the builder says, yeah, I can start next week,
Speaker 5: but I need a twelve and a half thousand dollars
Speaker 5: deposit on a twenty five thousand dollar job. I would
Speaker 5: be suspicious of that, right, I can't see any reason. Well,
Speaker 5: I can see a number of reasons why they might
Speaker 5: want a deposit like that. None of them are particularly good,
Speaker 5: to be blunt, And this came up when I was
Speaker 5: doing a panel discussion, and I said, look, I'm really
Speaker 5: suspicious of sort of hefty deposits for trades people. And
Speaker 5: a roofer rang up and said, okay, let me tell
Speaker 5: you the way that it goes with roofing. So I've
Speaker 5: got a project at the moment where I'm going to
Speaker 5: need to do a reroof on behalf of the client.
Speaker 5: So if I contact a roofer and say can you
Speaker 5: give me a price on that, they come back. Let's
Speaker 5: pick a figure out of the air, twenty grand. It
Speaker 5: won't be twenty grand, it'll be more than that. But
Speaker 5: let's say it's twenty grand, and I go, okay, that's reasonable.
Speaker 5: You're a good trades person, right, what's the chances are
Speaker 5: there going to say ten grand? And the reason that
Speaker 5: they will, and this is what the ruf HA said
Speaker 5: to me, is that as soon as the job's accept it.
Speaker 5: So let's say I'm the client, rufer comes, I've chosen
Speaker 5: color and profile and a date, and so that rufer
Speaker 5: then goes to the manufacturer, the person who's actually going
Speaker 5: to run the iron, and places the order. Now let's
Speaker 5: say I decide Shivers actually works not looking that great,
Speaker 5: I'm not too sure about spending twenty k. I'm going
Speaker 5: to ring them in two or three weeks time and
Speaker 5: just go, look, I'm really sorry, but I'm going to
Speaker 5: have to cancel the job. Where I'm going to have
Speaker 5: to do that, at which time the roof is already
Speaker 5: put in an order for the materials, which is a
Speaker 5: significant probably more than half of the cost of the
Speaker 5: job to the manufacturer. The manufacturer is still going to
Speaker 5: want to get paid. So in that situation, RUF is
Speaker 5: in particular, I fully understand a significant deposit given that
Speaker 5: that's the process, right, you know more than that, And
Speaker 5: I think you'd want to see materials on site and
Speaker 5: google dodgy builders and what you'll see a typical motors
Speaker 5: app operandi. Let's say for dodgy builders, dodgey trades. People
Speaker 5: rock up, big story, big deposit, and then you never
Speaker 5: see them again, or they come and do lousy work
Speaker 5: and that sort of thing. There's a couple of concrete
Speaker 5: contractors that are always in the news doing exactly that.
Speaker 5: So I think it is independent or it's dependent on
Speaker 5: what trade you've got and what the nature of the
Speaker 5: job is. But I don't think big jobs, but roofing,
Speaker 5: I completely understand why they would ask for a significant
Speaker 5: deposit prior to the work being done for those reasons. Right,
Speaker 5: Very good morning to you, Sela Celia.
Speaker 11: Hello, So, look we've got a MDF desktop. That's gott yes,
Speaker 11: but you know water damage I guess is look for
Speaker 11: the bubbly and we're just wondering what's the best way
Speaker 11: to deal with that. We want to repaint it.
Speaker 5: You're going to paint it. You're not trying to keep
Speaker 5: a clear finish on it or something like that. Okay,
Speaker 5: To be fair, you've got to be realistic about how
Speaker 5: good it's ever going to be. So if it's got
Speaker 5: water damage. But okay, but we want to and is
Speaker 5: it for is it an md IF core to like
Speaker 5: a malamine top or something like that.
Speaker 12: I'm not sure because somebody's painted over it was justly
Speaker 12: flat paint. Okay, all right, breasts all through the painting.
Speaker 5: Oh gorgeous sounds better and better.
Speaker 11: It's not a sound and solid so yeah, okay.
Speaker 5: Look, I would probably just hit it as hard as
Speaker 5: I can with a sander, ideally a belt sander or
Speaker 5: a random orbital quite coarse, like really rip into it
Speaker 5: and sand. What what will happen is where you've got
Speaker 5: the water damage, it will it's all lumpy and and
Speaker 5: so on. So you just want to sand that back
Speaker 5: as which as you possibly can. Then I would saturate
Speaker 5: the surface with. In fact with MDF, what they recommend
Speaker 5: is water born like quick dry so razine quick dry primer. Okay,
Speaker 5: that's a that will then bring up that will hold
Speaker 5: all of the fibers together.
Speaker 13: A little bit worried about sand.
Speaker 5: That again until you've got a smooth surface, So there
Speaker 5: might be a couple of applications of sanding primer. Then
Speaker 5: once you've got the surface, and again you've got to
Speaker 5: be realistic about what the look that you're going to achieve.
Speaker 5: Sand it back hard, primate, sand it again, primate. Once
Speaker 5: it's looking reasonably stable and flat, then you can do
Speaker 5: your top coat over that. And I if it's going
Speaker 5: to be a surface that you're going to use, like
Speaker 5: for a work desk or something like that, I would
Speaker 5: probably look at using some of the water born enamels
Speaker 5: that'll give you just a bit more durable than an acrylic.
Speaker 12: Basically holding those fibers to give were worried about. We're
Speaker 12: thinking about putting on the pets as well.
Speaker 5: No, probably limited success with that. I think just send
Speaker 5: it back really really hard for seala and then just
Speaker 5: use quick dry.
Speaker 13: Already, all the very best to you.
Speaker 5: Take care Sela. By way, there I'm just thinking I've
Speaker 5: I've built in some cabinet try shelving in my workshop
Speaker 5: at home, and I used actually I used tryboard as
Speaker 5: the top as well, like thirty two milfak tryboard from
Speaker 5: J and L. And then because I just wanted to
Speaker 5: make it a little bit more durable, I ended up
Speaker 5: coating it and putting a raisine. It was luster gral,
Speaker 5: which is the water borne enamel over the top. And
Speaker 5: that's got to be the better part of Shivers seven
Speaker 5: eight years ago. And it's to be fair, it's remarkable
Speaker 5: how well it's it's held up. So you know, in
Speaker 5: this case the tryboard, which has an MDF layer on it,
Speaker 5: plus a couple of good thick coats and paint over
Speaker 5: the top in a workshop environment's lasted quite well. O.
Speaker 5: Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to
Speaker 5: call John. Good morning to you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Hi, Pete, I'm really inmbrerassed in it. But about
Speaker 6: your talking about that other lady, Yes up to nineteen
Speaker 6: ninety one. Are you saying you don't have to get
Speaker 6: a CCC yet?
Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, it's probably slightly more nuanced than that. But
Speaker 5: if you look through like if you grab a Limb
Speaker 5: report for example, and it's on an older building, nineteen
Speaker 5: fifties building, and it might have a building permit was
Speaker 5: issued in nineteen fifty for the construction of a one
Speaker 5: hundred square meter three bedroom home, and will it will
Speaker 5: list the building list, the building permit number, and then
Speaker 5: it will note no CCC. And then when you read
Speaker 5: the notes further down, it'll say pre nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 5: basically CCC's didn't exist, so therefore it doesn't have one.
Speaker 5: And so around nineteen ninety one there was a change
Speaker 5: to the Building Act. We saw the we went from
Speaker 5: building permits to building consents. Building consents typically ended up
Speaker 5: requiring a CCC.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm aware of that. No, it was just I
Speaker 6: think it's a pretty important thing for some people to
Speaker 6: know with an older how that you don't need to
Speaker 6: get a CP have Yeah, find.
Speaker 5: Out Yeah, and look to be fair, I was a
Speaker 5: little bit surprised that Lisa, who purchased the house eleven
Speaker 5: years ago, which is not dim dark past, right, that
Speaker 5: that wasn't really obvious to whoever was doing the conveyancing.
Speaker 5: Hey are you aware that right now? And given the
Speaker 5: house was built nineteen ninety five in eleven years ago,
Speaker 5: twenty fourteen. We were very well aware of the risks
Speaker 5: of certain types of construction that were built around that time.
Speaker 5: So again I'm a little bit surprised that nobody picked
Speaker 5: it up at the time. But that's called come that
Speaker 5: when you're sitting there right now with a building that doesn't.
Speaker 6: When we built a lot of houses in the sixties,
Speaker 6: when I was during my time, sure there was that was. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you hardly saw a building, and well they knew that
Speaker 6: they always turn up at least once, but they knew
Speaker 6: who were the good builders and who weren't, and they
Speaker 6: focused more of their time on the ones that are
Speaker 6: not so good. And those houses will do it another
Speaker 6: one hundred years if they were left just the way
Speaker 6: they were when we all built them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, look, and it's hard to argue with
Speaker 5: the fact that many of those buildings are tremendously robust,
Speaker 5: right relatively simple structures, so you know, not terribly complicated roofs,
Speaker 5: nice big eaves to give protection to the joinery, you know,
Speaker 5: the critical part of the envelope. Simple cladding. It was
Speaker 5: I mean, most of what you would have done in
Speaker 5: the nineteen sixties would have been either brick or weatherboards
Speaker 5: A correct, Yeah, so you know, not terribly complex buildings,
Speaker 5: simple structures designed to endure. I guess the challenge with
Speaker 5: them now is that also when you were building in
Speaker 5: the nineteen sixties, insulation would have been you wouldn't have
Speaker 5: touched a piece of insulation until sometime in the late
Speaker 5: nineteen seventies. I'm guessing correct. Yeah, So you know, in
Speaker 5: terms of how they perform and how they work in
Speaker 5: terms of heating and so on, that's where we've got
Speaker 5: challenges with these old buildings. But they're often really good
Speaker 5: candidates for a deep retrofit. In fact, a family member
Speaker 5: bought one a couple of years ago, stripped out all
Speaker 5: of the lining, added insulation, put insulation in the ceilings,
Speaker 5: actually pulled out the old timber joinery and used uPVC
Speaker 5: inserts that came with double glazing. It's turned into right,
Speaker 5: because of the inherent stability or security in the house.
Speaker 5: With those modern upgrades, they've ended up with a really,
Speaker 5: really good, robust house.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they would say, because our parents built a
Speaker 6: brand new house in nineteen fifty five, right, and living
Speaker 6: in the living room on a really windy day, you
Speaker 6: could the lino sort of floated a little bit.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a good way of describing them, isn't it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there was no insulation anywhere.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so and.
Speaker 6: Because the wind went everywhere and they were never wet.
Speaker 6: Just so that's that's probably the biggest thing I think.
Speaker 5: You know, I'm in an old villa as well, so
Speaker 5: I think the way that we often described these older
Speaker 5: houses is drafty but dry. Right, So if the water
Speaker 5: did get in, you know, let's say there was a
Speaker 5: flashing that wasn't done particularly well, or the scriber had
Speaker 5: got a gap around it and water got driven and
Speaker 5: behind there, the fact that every time the wind blew
Speaker 5: it whistled all the way through the building just allowed
Speaker 5: them to dry out. And without oversimplifying it, it's probably
Speaker 5: true to say that one of the issues we had
Speaker 5: during the leaky building crisis where we had direct fixed
Speaker 5: fiber cements straight onto the studs, is that once the
Speaker 5: water got through the fiber cement, it got trapped in
Speaker 5: there between the building wrap and the and the timber
Speaker 5: framing couldn't dry out, no airflow through it, and so
Speaker 5: decay sets.
Speaker 6: Them and the other in. Yeah, we built a lot
Speaker 6: of woolsheds as well right, and of course they were
Speaker 6: built with feet and I drive fast them every so
Speaker 6: often and they're as good as the day that we
Speaker 6: built them.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, And again, look that's that thing. If you've
Speaker 5: got something, if it's untreated timber, if it's exposed to
Speaker 5: the elements. But every time, you know, inevitably, if it rains,
Speaker 5: you've got sun the next day, right, so it dries
Speaker 5: out and that's what stops their timber structures rotting. Basically,
Speaker 5: nice to reminisce with you, John, Thank you very much
Speaker 5: for that. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the
Speaker 5: number to call, coming up sixteen minutes away from seven.
Speaker 5: If you've got a question of a building nature, give
Speaker 5: us a call right now, Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 1: Whether you're paty with ceiling, fixing with fens, or wondering
Speaker 1: how to fix that hole in the wall, give feedl
Speaker 1: Wolf Gaffer call on eight hundred eighty ten eighty, the
Speaker 1: resident builder on News Dog ZB.
Speaker 5: Yeah, when News Talk SB, we've got a time for
Speaker 5: some calls. Absolutely, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is that
Speaker 5: number to call. Now's a really good time to call. Actually,
Speaker 5: eight hundred eighty ten eighty then number to call. A
Speaker 5: couple of other texts with regard to deposits. It's obviously
Speaker 5: I'll be happy to take some calls on this. So
Speaker 5: the initial text would be was about what size deposit
Speaker 5: should I give it a twenty nine thousand dollars roofing job. Look,
Speaker 5: I think if you've done your due diligence, you think
Speaker 5: that you've got a good contractor who's reliable. Ideally, if
Speaker 5: you're talking roofing, you've got someone who's a member of
Speaker 5: the Roofing Association, because that'll give you some protection if
Speaker 5: things don't go well and you're due to start, there's
Speaker 5: a reasonable timeline. That's the other thing with deposits, you know,
Speaker 5: I don't think it's a great idea to give to
Speaker 5: set down a deposit for a job that might start
Speaker 5: in six months time. There's always a counter to these things.
Speaker 5: A couple of years back, when things were really really busy,
Speaker 5: I know a building contractor who is very very good,
Speaker 5: does outstanding work and is in high demand, and so
Speaker 5: people were coming to him and his firm going hey,
Speaker 5: we've got this big renovation, we'd like you to do it,
Speaker 5: and he'd go, well, look I'm not free or my
Speaker 5: guys aren't free for seven or eight months, will you wait?
Speaker 5: And the person say, yeah, that'll be fine, that'll be fine,
Speaker 5: And so he'd put it in the diary for seven
Speaker 5: eight months in the future, and then possibly things change
Speaker 5: and the person would go, oh, no, look, I'm not
Speaker 5: going to go ahead with it. So when things were
Speaker 5: really but he would take a deposit as a sign
Speaker 5: of good faith that the person wanted to go ahead,
Speaker 5: and he would guarantee that he could start in seven
Speaker 5: or eight months time, which is really really interesting. Now,
Speaker 5: what's different about that is that that deposit would go
Speaker 5: into a trust account with the lawyers. It was completely transparent.
Speaker 5: It didn't go into And this is the concern that
Speaker 5: people are often asking for deposits because they owe somebody
Speaker 5: else money. They're going to take your money and pay
Speaker 5: somebody out their bills to somebody else. That's the concern
Speaker 5: around the deposits. So timing is everything and another here's
Speaker 5: the text and response to this. This is good Pete.
Speaker 5: As a painting contractor, I think asking for a deposit
Speaker 5: is a two way relationship. Yes, there are materials, et
Speaker 5: cetera to purchase, but I also think it's a test
Speaker 5: to see whether the money's available. I generally ask for
Speaker 5: anywhere between thirty three and forty percent, depending on the
Speaker 5: material content. I'd also say that twenty twenty five years
Speaker 5: ago Aldham asks for one. Now I wouldn't start a
Speaker 5: job worth more than one thousand dollars without one from Jason.
Speaker 5: Thanks very much for your text, Jackson, I completely understand
Speaker 5: that point of view. I w eight hundred eighty ten eighty,
Speaker 5: will short break, then we'll talked to Mike if you'd
Speaker 5: like to join us. I eight hundred eighty ten eighty
Speaker 5: the number squeaky door or squeaky floor.
Speaker 1: Get the right advice from Peter Wolfcare, the resident builder
Speaker 1: on news Talks MB.
Speaker 5: Intriguing discussions, and undoubtedly be a few more texts on
Speaker 5: this around. You know, deposits and so on and again,
Speaker 5: you know reliable trades people, trustworthy trades people and businesses. No,
Speaker 5: I mean kitchen manufacturers, for example, fifty percent deposit before
Speaker 5: they start making the kitchen. That's not unreasonable, I don't think.
Speaker 5: And certainly when I had the last couple of kitchens done,
Speaker 5: that's fine. You know I'll pay that. And here's another
Speaker 5: quick text just before we go to Mike Pete. Having
Speaker 5: a good relationship with the local services is really important.
Speaker 5: So recent reroof and spouting fifty three thousand dollars job,
Speaker 5: no deposit report required, paid the full invoice of the
Speaker 5: day it turned up later on. Needed a small job done,
Speaker 5: usually a two week wait. They were there that afternoon.
Speaker 5: Look one hundred percent, Nick, I thoroughly agree with you.
Speaker 5: And the best way to get a good relationship with
Speaker 5: your trade is if they've done the job, and let's
Speaker 5: say they put on their invoice paying seven days or
Speaker 5: fourteen days. If you've got the money paid the next day,
Speaker 5: you know that's the way to build up a good relationship.
Speaker 5: One hundred percent agree with you, Nick, Thank you, Mike,
Speaker 5: Good morning.
Speaker 7: Good morning.
Speaker 14: Got a nineteen fifty house with plaster board ceilings.
Speaker 5: Plaster or fibrous plasters.
Speaker 7: Fibrous plaster, yep, yep.
Speaker 14: And I was talking to a guy that made them
Speaker 14: one day at one more and he said, he said,
Speaker 14: ye're only good for about fifty years.
Speaker 7: Thanks mate.
Speaker 5: Anyway, Yeah, yes, sir.
Speaker 15: And the way I've got one the lounge I got
Speaker 15: done recently where the painters cracking and crazy and and
Speaker 15: coming away a little bit, and I've got one of
Speaker 15: the bedroom doing the same but to a large extent.
Speaker 7: Now, the guys came into one of the.
Speaker 14: Lounge and what they did they stripped away the with
Speaker 14: a scarce and knife, the you know places in question.
Speaker 14: They filled that with the contract further and in a
Speaker 14: coat of what was it of three and one prep
Speaker 14: for prep paint and then two coats of de Luxe
Speaker 14: semi you know flat paint. Now the one the one
Speaker 14: in the bedroom, which is a little bit whereas that
Speaker 14: a few more areas of that would that would that
Speaker 14: be a good fix?
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, look, if it's worked in the other area,
Speaker 5: then there's no reason.
Speaker 14: Worked it was only done a week ago, or.
Speaker 5: Look, I probably I would use different products, right. So
Speaker 5: if it was me and I've done some stuff on
Speaker 5: firerus plasta thorough clean scrape back any loose material with
Speaker 5: plaster surfaces, particularly old plaster surfaces surfaces, I really like
Speaker 5: to use pigmented seala and it probably an oil based one.
Speaker 5: There is now a water borne one as well, but
Speaker 5: an oil based pigmented seala. And what that does typically
Speaker 5: is it binds all of the old coatings together with
Speaker 5: the substrate so it seems to penetrate and lock everything together.
Speaker 5: Once I've done a pigmented seala, that's when I apply
Speaker 5: any stopping or filling to that surface. Then I do
Speaker 5: pigmented seala over the top of that again, and then
Speaker 5: you can carry on with your acrylic top coats like
Speaker 5: a ceiling flat or something like that. So that would
Speaker 5: be my approach to it and my experience. That's all worked,
Speaker 5: so give that a go as well. But what the
Speaker 5: other guys did works, then stick with that too, So
Speaker 5: you've got some options back after.
Speaker 1: The break helping you get those DIY projects done right.
Speaker 1: The resident builder with peta Wolfcat call OH eight hundred
Speaker 1: eighty ten eighty Youth Talk ZB Well.
Speaker 5: A very good morning, welcome back to the program. Oh
Speaker 5: eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
Speaker 5: No mucking around this morning. If you've got a question,
Speaker 5: give me a call right now on eight hundred eighty
Speaker 5: ten eighty. It could be about compliance, could be about materials,
Speaker 5: it could be about tips and tricks. We've been talking
Speaker 5: a little bit about deposits, which is always always an
Speaker 5: intriguing one, you know, and it seems to be we've
Speaker 5: had a couple of different opinions coming in through the
Speaker 5: text machine. So someone asking, look, what's a reasonable deposit
Speaker 5: to pay for a roofing contract. Let's say, so if
Speaker 5: you're doing a reroof and you've accepted a price, and
Speaker 5: then the contractor says, in this instance it was a
Speaker 5: twenty nine thousand dollars job, sounds reasonable, and then the
Speaker 5: contractor is asking for a fifty percent deposit? Is that
Speaker 5: reasonable in that instance?
Speaker 7: It is.
Speaker 5: I've always been, and I've been quite open about this,
Speaker 5: fairly critical of contractors asking for significant deposits, particularly for jobs,
Speaker 5: you know, carpentry jobs. I don't see why I would
Speaker 5: typically at this the beginning of a contract, like literally
Speaker 5: the week before we'd start, ask for a deposit. Let's
Speaker 5: say that allowed me to cover the guy's wages or
Speaker 5: the guy's contract for the first two weeks until I
Speaker 5: put in a first progress payment, that sort of thing.
Speaker 5: But you know, asking for hefty deposits for building work
Speaker 5: and other types of construction work. I think if you
Speaker 5: google you know, dodgy builder, dodgy contractor dodgy concrete layer,
Speaker 5: inevitably in there there will be a story about, you know,
Speaker 5: they came, they tooked a big story and then they
Speaker 5: asked for a hefty deposit, and then we didn't see
Speaker 5: them for weeks, and when they did turn up they
Speaker 5: did a little bit of work. In some cases, you know,
Speaker 5: there's just countless stories. It's depressing and disheartening to read them.
Speaker 5: To be blunt online about you know, people that have
Speaker 5: spent tens of thousands of dollars with contractors who have
Speaker 5: done very little work. The work that they have done
Speaker 5: is very poor, and yet they keep their hand out
Speaker 5: for more money, more money, Oh, I need a bit
Speaker 5: more money to get that job. Or it's never a
Speaker 5: surprise when you look at a job that's gone badly
Speaker 5: that there weren't warning signs much earlier on. Anyway, we
Speaker 5: can talk about that, or we can be a little
Speaker 5: bit more up lightened and enthusiastic around engaging with contractors
Speaker 5: and talk about jobs that you might like to get done.
Speaker 5: Oh eight hundred and eighty ten, and I love that
Speaker 5: text actually just before the news. Having a good relationship
Speaker 5: with the local services is really important. So for example,
Speaker 5: in this instance required a reroof it was a fifty
Speaker 5: three thousand dollars job, no deposit required. They paid the
Speaker 5: full invoice the day that it turned up later on.
Speaker 5: Needed a small job done normally there's weight I phoned.
Speaker 5: They were there that afternoon. That's what you get as
Speaker 5: a client if you look after your contractors as well.
Speaker 5: So paying promptly, even paying ahead of time is just
Speaker 5: that generates so much goodwill. If they've done the job,
Speaker 5: pay the bill, simple as that. Oh, eight hundred and
Speaker 5: eighty ten eighty the number to call ten minutes after seven.
Speaker 5: A little bit later on, we're going to catch up
Speaker 5: with a fairly young guy running a crew doing some
Speaker 5: beautiful building work outside of Blenham using the J and
Speaker 5: L Jay frames. Will have a bit of a catch
Speaker 5: up with him. And then I've had the opportunity to
Speaker 5: prepare an interview with Professor David Welch from the University
Speaker 5: of Auckland. He is a professor of audiology particularly and
Speaker 5: his specialty is around hearing loss, causes of it, and
Speaker 5: the impact of hearing loss. And I have said on
Speaker 5: a couple of occasions over the last little while that
Speaker 5: you know, I've got a real concern around how trades
Speaker 5: people protect their ears and protect their hearing and whether
Speaker 5: or not certain types of sort of modern devices for
Speaker 5: want of a better phrase, are actually effective in terms
Speaker 5: of their hearing loss. And I'd made a certain number
Speaker 5: of assumptions. Interestingly enough, during the course of the interview,
Speaker 5: I found that maybe I hadn't quite got it right.
Speaker 5: So surprise, surprise, I might have been wrong on something,
Speaker 5: but well, not quite wrong. My concerns were overstated. Anyway,
Speaker 5: That interview coming up for you just after the eight
Speaker 5: o'clock break. But right now it's an opportunity to talk
Speaker 5: all things building in construction, So now's a great time
Speaker 5: to call. The lines are open. The number is eight
Speaker 5: hundred eighty ten.
Speaker 1: Eighty measure twice God was but maybe call Pete first
Speaker 1: video all care the resident builder.
Speaker 7: News talk said by a.
Speaker 5: News talk said, b If you've got a comment that
Speaker 5: you'd like to make, or a question you would like
Speaker 5: to ask, the number to call is eight hundred eighty
Speaker 5: ten eighty. Couple of other quick texts, Hey Pete, any
Speaker 5: good point is about replacing a couple of weather boards
Speaker 5: on a house hints or things to watch out for. Look,
Speaker 5: the really great thing is that weather boards. The beauty
Speaker 5: of them is that they are replaceable and repairable and
Speaker 5: in a relatively straightforward way. So typically what I would
Speaker 5: be doing is trying to find the stud on either
Speaker 5: side of the rotten area. You can use a multi tool,
Speaker 5: for example, and cut. You have an option of either
Speaker 5: cutting in the center of the stud and then removing
Speaker 5: the board. In that way, you've got something to fix
Speaker 5: the board onto the replacement board onto, or you can
Speaker 5: cut alongside the stud and if you can get in there,
Speaker 5: fix another piece of timber to the side of the stud.
Speaker 5: That really only works if you're talking about something that
Speaker 5: doesn't have building paper on it. Inevitably to get the
Speaker 5: board out, because there'll be a part of the board
Speaker 5: that laps up underneath the board above it. You will
Speaker 5: end up having to make a cut through that board
Speaker 5: in some way, in which case you can either pay
Speaker 5: actually repair that with a SOAKA. You know, if you're
Speaker 5: thinking that you're going to be doing like an extensive
Speaker 5: number of weather boards, that's permissible replacing let's say, an
Speaker 5: entire elevation of your house, one side of a house
Speaker 5: that inevitably would require a building consent. But yeah, weather boards.
Speaker 5: One of the beauties of them is that they are
Speaker 5: able to be repairable, and that's I suppose the challenge
Speaker 5: let's say with other types of cladding systems, is sometimes
Speaker 5: they're not as easily repairable. Everything's repaarable, just not always
Speaker 5: as easily. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the
Speaker 5: number to call Brett. Good morning to you.
Speaker 10: Yeah, good a mate. Hey, A bit of a question. Sure,
Speaker 10: I've got a client with a building next door to them,
Speaker 10: and I've stuck some overflows in their internal gutters. Every
Speaker 10: time it really rains, my client's buildings getting flooded out,
Speaker 10: then there seems to be coming out. We've spoken to
Speaker 10: the council about it. May reckon when they're overflows, but
Speaker 10: to me, overflows shouldn't be spilling out water with you know,
Speaker 10: unless they really need to.
Speaker 5: Yeah, for regular rainfall, you wouldn't expect the overflow to
Speaker 5: be utilized, right The stormwater system or the drainage system
Speaker 5: should be able to cope with what is regular rainfall, right,
Speaker 5: so anywhere up to about forty millimeters per hour, which
Speaker 5: is actually oh maybe no, that's too much, fifteen to
Speaker 5: twenty milimeters per hour. So yeah, if you're seeing I mean,
Speaker 5: I don't disagree with them in the sense that an
Speaker 5: overflow is designed to allow water to escape the system
Speaker 5: when the system is inundated, rather than sort of create
Speaker 5: back pressure and push the water back inside the building envelope. Right,
Speaker 5: So particularly if it's you know, this is the beauty
Speaker 5: of external spouting, right, if it becomes overwhelmed, it just
Speaker 5: flows over the front edge of the spouting and you
Speaker 5: can see it. Whereas if you've got something that's inside
Speaker 5: a parapet, and so you've got an internal you've got
Speaker 5: a sump in there. If that gets overwhelmed and it
Speaker 5: overflows and goes back inside the building, that's bad.
Speaker 10: Well, this is what's happening because the building next door
Speaker 10: is two stories and our buildings on a single story.
Speaker 10: So all the water is coming straight down the wall
Speaker 10: and into the our client's building.
Speaker 5: And these are obviously commercial buildings, so they're butted together.
Speaker 7: Yep.
Speaker 10: Good, Like they're not allowing us access to get up
Speaker 10: onto their roof to make sure that it's not low
Speaker 10: enough to sort.
Speaker 5: Of is the overflow. Like often with parapets, you might
Speaker 5: have let's say internal drainage then a connection to the
Speaker 5: outside and the rain heads on the outside, or you've
Speaker 5: got internal spouting or internal gutter formed up and a sump.
Speaker 10: There's no rain heads either, Renge, I must have something
Speaker 10: that somewhere along the line.
Speaker 16: Yeah, I mean, how do you go about, you know,
Speaker 16: having that discussion, because well, actually know, the interesting thing is,
Speaker 16: and this is where the Property Act comes into play.
Speaker 5: So the Property Act is very much about ensuring that
Speaker 5: and this is about stormwater, right that disposal of storm
Speaker 5: water shouldn't cause a nuisance. So even though it's an overflow,
Speaker 5: it should ultimately still be controlled.
Speaker 10: Yeah, well I've never done this before these overflows are installed.
Speaker 10: These overflows have only been installed last year.
Speaker 5: I maybe you do need to go to a lawyer
Speaker 5: and just get an opinion from them. They'll they'll be
Speaker 5: able to show that concise part of the Act and go. Actually,
Speaker 5: even even an overflow still needs to be controlled because
Speaker 5: effect like, if you think about a situation where maybe
Speaker 5: a residential section, you might have a met or so
Speaker 5: between properties right or to the boundary, so that if
Speaker 5: water overflows and then it overflows on the ground, the
Speaker 5: overland flow path might take it to the neighbor. But
Speaker 5: that's but even that generally needs to be controlled. In
Speaker 5: your instance, where you've got two buildings abutting each other,
Speaker 5: the overflow immediately falls onto your land, but its origin
Speaker 5: is your neighbor's property. Therefore, you could make the argument, well, actually,
Speaker 5: even though it's an overflow, you still need to control it.
Speaker 5: So maybe they end up adding a downpipe to the
Speaker 5: overflow that acts in such a way that if it
Speaker 5: was blocked, it would still overflow, but generally the discharge
Speaker 5: is controlled and directed back onto their property.
Speaker 10: Well, we basically told them to do that, yeah, and
Speaker 10: hook it up to the stormwater drains precisely, but because
Speaker 10: we've done it through the council, or the council's agreed,
Speaker 10: but we've been through the council and they have said, well,
Speaker 10: it's an overflow, so we're going to send a drone
Speaker 10: up there probably today. Yeah, how high is off the
Speaker 10: bottom of the gun and it's basically an outlet?
Speaker 5: Well you know, yes, that's right, Yeah, that's right. What
Speaker 5: you don't want is that what they've done is they've
Speaker 5: they've not bothered to do an outlet properly, and they're
Speaker 5: calling it an overflow, but in fact it's just the outlet.
Speaker 10: Just an outlet, yeah, covered here asis, So it's not getting.
Speaker 5: Wet, absolutely, I tell you that, just because I find
Speaker 5: this especially now that we're you know, in terms of
Speaker 5: storm water, we're under real pressure, right, pardon the punt,
Speaker 5: in terms of controlling it, and in terms of trying
Speaker 5: to build in such a way that we allow for
Speaker 5: these extreme weather events which are seemingly more and more common.
Speaker 5: I was at a building the other day, large commercial building,
Speaker 5: retail actually, and you know, big one hundred and fifty
Speaker 5: milllion down pipe came down off the roof one of
Speaker 5: several interesting just before it entered or hit the ground
Speaker 5: right and entered their sort of in ground stormwater system,
Speaker 5: they had obviously cut the pipe and inserted effectively an
Speaker 5: upside down y junction or a y and an elbow.
Speaker 5: So you imagine a situation where the pipes in the
Speaker 5: ground are at capacity, and typically what you'll see then
Speaker 5: is the pipes in the ground are at capacity, overwhelmed,
Speaker 5: and the water will back up through the downpipe, and
Speaker 5: then the water that's coming into the downpipe at the
Speaker 5: top has got nowhere to go, so it overflows the spouting,
Speaker 5: or it overwhelms the spouting goes back inside the building.
Speaker 5: So what this system allowed for is that in most
Speaker 5: weather events, the water will just go down the downpipe
Speaker 5: and into the storm water. But in the event that
Speaker 5: the stormwater in the ground is overwhelmed and it starts
Speaker 5: to fill up the pipe, it'll simply spill out the
Speaker 5: side and onto the ground. It was a really nifty
Speaker 5: sort of thing. And I looked at that and thought, gee,
Speaker 5: that's some smart thinking. And I haven't seen it everywhere,
Speaker 5: but I just thought, gosh, that's quite clever. Quite like that.
Speaker 10: Yeah, because I have that problem with you, because I
Speaker 10: do a lot of maintenance on commercial buildings and here
Speaker 10: we have that sort of quite a few times. Was
Speaker 10: where we are like all our landers built on bloody seed,
Speaker 10: you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, sure land, And it's one of those ones where
Speaker 5: you know, in ninety nine percent of the time you
Speaker 5: would never need that facility, but being really practical, you'd go,
Speaker 5: we all know that sometimes in heavy rain, the actual
Speaker 5: council the infrastructure is overwhelmed, right, So rather than backing
Speaker 5: up all the way up the downs pipe and spilling
Speaker 5: out the top, it just allows it to flood onto
Speaker 5: the ground.
Speaker 17: Not not a.
Speaker 5: Perfect solution, but better than having your downpipes overwhelmed and
Speaker 5: water getting back inside the building. Yeah.
Speaker 10: Well cheaper too, really, Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well that's right.
Speaker 14: That's right above a box.
Speaker 5: Or something like that. Absolutely, mate, good luck with that,
Speaker 5: Good luck with the drone today, jeers, all of this,
Speaker 5: all of this, it is a challenge, isn't it. Oh
Speaker 5: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty the number to call Patty.
Speaker 5: You've got some thoughts.
Speaker 13: Oh my words, yes, oh my launch into it.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I knew your brother Frank.
Speaker 5: Okay, don't worry. He's still around, by the way.
Speaker 13: But yeah, oh ship, yeah, well none of us are
Speaker 13: that old.
Speaker 4: Track him down. They he was a good Russia good yeah,
Speaker 4: and yeah, I've been through the metal, the councils and
Speaker 4: all that sort of stuff. I won't go on about it,
Speaker 4: but the subde at the moment, I'm sixty six, I'm
Speaker 4: halfway to one hundred and thirty two. Yep, So I
Speaker 4: want to used to sorry, get into the concrete ten yes,
Speaker 4: and can you give me a reasonable explanation you're understanding
Speaker 4: why the price is massively high on buying it from
Speaker 4: the actual I was going to say, breweries.
Speaker 5: I like have rates to be fair, I haven't bought
Speaker 5: a truckload of concrete or a couple of cube for
Speaker 5: a little while, but rates were typically somewhere around two
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty three hundred bucks a cube. Have they
Speaker 5: rushed rocked up from there?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 5: So what would you be paying for, say twenty MPa
Speaker 5: or seventeen standard concrete twenty milchip seventeen point five MPa.
Speaker 4: Slightly more than that, but I guess it depends where
Speaker 4: you are.
Speaker 5: Yes, Yes, scarcity will have an issue.
Speaker 4: Scarcity well in.
Speaker 5: Terms of, you know, if it's remote, or if the
Speaker 5: truck's got to travel a long way, those sorts of things.
Speaker 5: Surely that will have a bit of an impact.
Speaker 4: You know, that's dame right, they say in the States.
Speaker 4: But the you know, is the price of the calcium
Speaker 4: that are adding to the concrete.
Speaker 5: I'm just thinking most of the elements you need to
Speaker 5: make concrete are actually local, aren't they. So aggregate sand
Speaker 5: and we make cement in New Zealand as well, So
Speaker 5: there's not a lot. There's not a huge impact on
Speaker 5: the importation of goods. Bearing in mind that I think
Speaker 5: it's north of ninety percent of New Zealand building products
Speaker 5: have an element that is from overseas, whether it's the
Speaker 5: entire element or a component of an element that we
Speaker 5: were Plasterboard for example, we import gypsum, right, plenty of
Speaker 5: paper here, plenty of water, but we import the gypsum cement.
Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure we manufacture here. I look into that,
Speaker 5: but yeah, we do.
Speaker 4: And it used to be in Golden Bay.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and what's.
Speaker 4: Yeah this The question is how come the concrete companies
Speaker 4: can charge that much more than what they used to?
Speaker 4: Is there any look?
Speaker 5: I think a lot of rates have have got The
Speaker 5: hard thing is rates often for materials. In some cases
Speaker 5: services are quick to rise. So rates went up, you know,
Speaker 5: post COVID when things were booming, and sometimes they're a
Speaker 5: little bit slow to come back down. Other things have
Speaker 5: moved around. I remember having a conversation with Endy from
Speaker 5: construction costs consultants. So they measure their quantity surveys. They
Speaker 5: measure building costs all the time. So pre COVID square
Speaker 5: meter rate on blockwork, for example, was about four hundred
Speaker 5: and forty bucks a square meter. Post COVID, it rocked
Speaker 5: up to about eight hundred and then by now we've
Speaker 5: seen it drop back down to around the same rate,
Speaker 5: so it's almost gone back to normal, let's say in
Speaker 5: inverted commas. But whether or not you know, prices for
Speaker 5: materials have come back. I think they have in general,
Speaker 5: and also I think with concrete it depends a little
Speaker 5: bit on the quantity that you're purchasing and how often
Speaker 5: you're purchasing. You know, if you're ordering a truck every day,
Speaker 5: your rate's going to be better than if you, you know,
Speaker 5: randomly ring up once a year and go, oh, they
Speaker 5: need a truck a concrete. So I don't have a
Speaker 5: magical answer to all of that, petty, but I'll pass
Speaker 5: on your regards to my brother. I appreciate that. Oh,
Speaker 5: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty the number to call Graham.
Speaker 5: Good morning to you.
Speaker 7: Oh, yes, Graham.
Speaker 17: Here, I've got a report of property. It's got an
Speaker 17: old Acadian nineteen eighty one brick house on it. Now
Speaker 17: we've had a couple of leaks in this in the
Speaker 17: roof sine, and it's got the de gramatic tiles on it.
Speaker 7: Yep.
Speaker 17: The plumber recons it's probably be mess to get rid
Speaker 17: of the tiles and just rebruf it. Yep. So there's
Speaker 17: a few issues of that, because if we don't put
Speaker 17: tiles back on, then apparent we have to do a
Speaker 17: bit of building work to get long run.
Speaker 7: Or corrogated iron on.
Speaker 17: Yes, yeah, so I'm thinking, funny, that's got good long givity,
Speaker 17: low maintenance.
Speaker 7: Where do you go?
Speaker 5: I think Unfortunately, one of the issues with like the
Speaker 5: press metal tile, whether it's dechromastic or another brand, is
Speaker 5: I reckon. Most of the cause for leaks is people
Speaker 5: walking around on the roof who don't know what they're doing,
Speaker 5: and so you know they're in and of themselves. They're
Speaker 5: actually a pretty durable roof. But all of the damage
Speaker 5: that I've ever seen, and almost all of the leaks
Speaker 5: that I've ever seen, have come from people who I
Speaker 5: don't know, maybe go out to put the sky area on,
Speaker 5: not blaming sky, or need to do some maintenance, or
Speaker 5: you know two story house you walk around up there
Speaker 5: to do the painting.
Speaker 17: Yes, it's also got the internal guvering.
Speaker 5: Ah as an concealed spouting behind concealed spouting behind metal facia. Correct, right, okay, um,
Speaker 5: and they're not great, right, that's not great. I'll tell
Speaker 5: you what now, knowing that, knowing that you've got the
Speaker 5: old might be class facier, it might be another version,
Speaker 5: but that concealed spouting behind a metal facier, I think
Speaker 5: I would be inclined to if you can bite the
Speaker 5: bullet and sort out both problems at once, right, So yes,
Speaker 5: you're right. If you take off the old press metal tile,
Speaker 5: they typically are laid down on a baton, which is
Speaker 5: like a basically a tuber one batten. Right, And so
Speaker 5: you really shouldn't fix roofing iron to that. You need perlins.
Speaker 5: The perlins need to be at about nine hundred centers
Speaker 5: eight nine hundred centers and the peerlins will be seventy
Speaker 5: five x fifty. So what happens then is your roof
Speaker 5: gets higher, and sometimes you can end up with the
Speaker 5: roof being if you're going to go long run, and
Speaker 5: that's probably where I would head. You end up with
Speaker 5: that being higher than you're spouting, particularly if you've got
Speaker 5: the concealed spouting. But the concealed spouting is a problem,
Speaker 5: so I would rip that off at the same time,
Speaker 5: do the reroof do new external facia with or faciit
Speaker 5: with an external gutter running around it. I went and
Speaker 5: had a look at a job the other day which
Speaker 5: was concrete tile roof with that internal spouting. I went
Speaker 5: to Custom Spouting and Facia. They did a sort of
Speaker 5: off the plan estimate they've got a clip system which
Speaker 5: essentially removes the old one, installs a new metal facia
Speaker 5: and exterior spouting, and it was it was actually pretty
Speaker 5: reasonable to swap that over. But you know, all up,
Speaker 5: you're probably talking about I don't know, twenty five thousand dollars,
Speaker 5: thirty thousand dollars exercise.
Speaker 17: Oh, that actually sounds reasonable compared to some of the
Speaker 17: prices I've heard.
Speaker 5: So look, you know, I don't know the size of it.
Speaker 5: I don't know whether you need.
Speaker 4: It each protection terms of square meters.
Speaker 5: Okay, then it's going to be way more than that, unfortunately.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, but look, it will provide you with an
Speaker 5: opportunity to For example, if it's a nineteen ninety one house,
Speaker 5: there won't be a lot of insulation, or the insulation
Speaker 5: that was installed in it will probably have sagged, so
Speaker 5: perfect opportunity. If you're stripping the roof off, you could
Speaker 5: upgrade the insulation.
Speaker 17: Well, start it all started, because we've got a it's
Speaker 17: actually nineteen eighty one, and it's got a white textured
Speaker 17: ceiling which has got a spesto. The job started.
Speaker 7: We've had to get.
Speaker 17: The best us removed, yes, and then the guys come
Speaker 17: and look at this beestus is going by the way,
Speaker 17: do you know your ceilings sagging? Yep, and I got
Speaker 17: water leaks and then the job sort of got bigger
Speaker 17: and bigger.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and to be fair, I work Safe issued a notice.
Speaker 5: Actually it's going back about four or five years now
Speaker 5: even longer, actually a around the need to have that
Speaker 5: type of roofing tile assessed for whether or not it
Speaker 5: contains asbestos as well. And unfortunately, well fortunately in terms
Speaker 5: of health and safety, unfortunately in terms of dollars, if
Speaker 5: for example, that roofing has got asbestos, then your removal
Speaker 5: costs go from maybe a grand or two to possibly
Speaker 5: as much as fifteen to sixteen thousand dollars based on
Speaker 5: a job that I was aware of recently. So you know,
Speaker 5: the costs could continue to extend and balloon out. You
Speaker 5: really do need to get that roofing tested if you're
Speaker 5: going to remove it.
Speaker 7: Yep.
Speaker 17: Okay, And really, as fad longevity goes, we're probably looking
Speaker 17: at say like a long round with an external like
Speaker 17: a custom said custom spouting or yeah, I.
Speaker 5: Mean that's a firm that I know has they've developed
Speaker 5: because this is such a common problem, they have developed
Speaker 5: a system that allows them to come in remove the
Speaker 5: existing one and replace it. And so if you worked,
Speaker 5: if they worked in with RUFA, they'll come up with
Speaker 5: a really good solution for you. Awesome, all the very best,
Speaker 5: But it sounds like it's a little bit of a
Speaker 5: bigger job than you might have expected. It happens break yeah,
Speaker 5: absolutely good on you. All the very best. Thanks grem
Speaker 5: take care your news. Talk z'd b if you'd like
Speaker 5: to join us. We've got time for your calls. Oh
Speaker 5: eight hundred eighty ten eighty is that number to call?
Speaker 5: Interesting one just on the previous Our first caller in
Speaker 5: the hour, Bret talking about this situation where commercial buildings
Speaker 5: are budding each other overflows causing damage to the adjoining property.
Speaker 5: Someone has said, look, it's a case of trespass of water.
Speaker 5: He needs legal advice. I'm not sure if trespassing water
Speaker 5: is a thing, but I get the point. I think
Speaker 5: there is an obligation on a property owner to control
Speaker 5: stormwater on their property. You can't allow it to become
Speaker 5: a nuisance for somebody else in the built environment. This
Speaker 5: is the difference, because I remember having this discussion around
Speaker 5: farms for example. You know, if you're a farmer at
Speaker 5: the bottom of the hill and your neighbors at the
Speaker 5: top of the hill and you cop their water. Nothing
Speaker 5: you can do about that, right, it's natural environment. In
Speaker 5: a residential situation, an urban environment, that's where you can say, hey,
Speaker 5: you need to control your stormwater. I don't expect to
Speaker 5: cop your stormwater in the event of heavy rain. Back
Speaker 5: after the.
Speaker 1: Break doing of the house storting the guard and asked
Speaker 1: Pete for a hand the resident builder with Peter WILFCAP
Speaker 1: call eighty us dogs Vy.
Speaker 5: Today we're talking with Rhon Maturo from RCM Construction based
Speaker 5: in Blenheim. Now, Rihon's going to give us a bit
Speaker 5: of a rundown of his experience was with the jframe.
Speaker 5: Thanks for joining us this morning. What's the biggest surprise
Speaker 5: for you when you started working with jayframe? Perhaps you know,
Speaker 5: compared to conventional timber framing.
Speaker 3: Ye.
Speaker 18: I was actually quite a surprised how straight and not
Speaker 18: twist the jframe was, yep, compared to traditional framing.
Speaker 5: And in terms of being on site like you've started
Speaker 5: using it, are you noticing difference in terms of speed, durability,
Speaker 5: ease of use?
Speaker 14: Definitely.
Speaker 18: Jaframes definitely helped with speed, right, especially when it comes
Speaker 18: to straightening the frames and preparing for internal and external linings.
Speaker 5: Now, in terms of the jframe your workflow, have you
Speaker 5: noticed like that, given that you don't have to straighten everything,
Speaker 5: does that make you more efficient?
Speaker 17: Definitely?
Speaker 18: Yeah, yeah, And there's also a massive cost in savings
Speaker 18: and labor the.
Speaker 7: Client, right, just because of the quality of the jframe.
Speaker 5: And you know, we're all in the building trade, we're
Speaker 5: all starting to talk about sustainability. How does that fit
Speaker 5: into your environmental approach?
Speaker 7: I touched on earlier, how how straight jframe was? Yes, twisted,
Speaker 7: so yes, you get to use a bit.
Speaker 18: More of a full lengths there's no waste, right, minimized
Speaker 18: the environmental impact.
Speaker 5: And that's really important because we've all driven past skips
Speaker 5: full of off cuts of timber and you know the
Speaker 5: twisted but so you don't have to get rid of yep,
Speaker 5: that's because they basically aren't any Hey. Now, the guys
Speaker 5: at J and L tell me that you're on a
Speaker 5: pretty big build at the moment. Where's that and how's
Speaker 5: it going?
Speaker 17: It's where mold we're here.
Speaker 18: Yes, I'm currently on a massive seven hundred square met
Speaker 18: architecture bood. Wow, it's we've got some great clients that
Speaker 18: we're working for them. We've sort of been here in
Speaker 18: now ten months and preparing for linings, which is which
Speaker 18: is a great for progress. Yes, definitely because of J frawn,
Speaker 18: Like it's sort of minimized just labor and productivity through.
Speaker 10: The roof because of how straight the product is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I guess if you're doing really big walls
Speaker 5: and really long walls, that really counts.
Speaker 7: Doesn't it. Definitely?
Speaker 6: Definitely.
Speaker 5: Hey, if people want to see your work at ROSM Construction,
Speaker 5: what's the best way to get hold of you?
Speaker 18: Contact us on rhon Arism Construction dot brilliant.
Speaker 5: Hey, appreciate you taking the time to chat about the
Speaker 5: jframe and all the best for the lining coming up.
Speaker 5: Take care zby quick text as well, just before we
Speaker 5: chat with Allen morning Peek. Consent for fireplaces. I have
Speaker 5: a freestanding fluid gas burner that was installed twenty years
Speaker 5: ago and it replaced a wood burning fireplace, so it
Speaker 5: uses the original chimney with a separate flu up the
Speaker 5: middle of the existing chimney. I want to take out
Speaker 5: the gas burner and put in a new wood burning
Speaker 5: fireplace back in and use the original chimney. Would I
Speaker 5: need to have that consented? Short answer, yes, So it's
Speaker 5: really clear. Fireplaces, whether they're wood burning or gas, always
Speaker 5: require a building consent, so not often you get simple answers.
Speaker 5: But that's a simple one. Fireplaces consent most definitely replacing it.
Speaker 5: I don't think is considered like for like, I think
Speaker 5: you need a building consent for that, rightio, Where are
Speaker 5: we at? A very good morning to actually Polly? First? Hello,
Speaker 5: how are you?
Speaker 19: I'm very well?
Speaker 4: Thank you?
Speaker 7: Good?
Speaker 5: Now what's going on?
Speaker 9: Well?
Speaker 19: My questions are if I say I'm eighteen nine, which
Speaker 19: means that although I'm elderly, I'm not stupid. Do you
Speaker 19: know what I mean?
Speaker 5: I know exactly what you mean. My mum's ninety two,
Speaker 5: and I would never make that assumption.
Speaker 19: But I've had some getting my place ashvelters, my friend
Speaker 19: redoing it so it's nice and smart, you know, tidy,
Speaker 19: so I may as well have the pleasure out of
Speaker 19: it before I die. Sure, yeah, okay, I won't go
Speaker 19: into all that. So I've had two huge trees which
Speaker 19: need to be taken down, Yes, one for the ashveltin too,
Speaker 19: for the safety of the house, very near the house.
Speaker 19: What happens if I m asked to pay under the
Speaker 19: table if some damage is done for my sewage pipes
Speaker 19: or the house or the people who are dealing with
Speaker 19: the trees, right.
Speaker 5: I would say it's going no, not in the slightest Well, yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean, look, there's obviously the whole thing around. I've
Speaker 5: always been very clear that paying a contractor in cash
Speaker 5: is actually okay. Right. However, often when those payments are made,
Speaker 5: it's because the contractor, as a business owner, is not
Speaker 5: declaring their income. Right, so it's evasion, which is a crime.
Speaker 5: So well, that's in some ways ultimately not your responsibility.
Speaker 5: But if you know that that's what's happening, I guess
Speaker 5: you've got a moral responsibility to go do I want
Speaker 5: to engage with that? The other thing is typically cash jobs,
Speaker 5: there's no receipt, right, there's no contract, there's no assurances
Speaker 5: and so on. So if there was a problem, how
Speaker 5: would you then go about getting redressed from the contractor
Speaker 5: for the work? Chances are they're not going to be
Speaker 5: insured and they're not going to tell you who they're
Speaker 5: insurer is, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I guess,
Speaker 5: you know, the benefit of working with a legitimate contractor
Speaker 5: who presents themselves, can show you their insurance certificate, gives
Speaker 5: you a receipt for the work. Has got a company
Speaker 5: that is not going to go under in two days time.
Speaker 5: There's some upside to that, isn't there?
Speaker 19: Yes, so I shake the risk.
Speaker 7: Yes, it would all be.
Speaker 19: Yes, right, all my family are away right responsibility, which
Speaker 19: I'm used to doing, I've done. Okay, well, thank you
Speaker 19: for that. You've just you know, but they're nice people,
Speaker 19: you see, and I hope I'm real that's my neck name.
Speaker 19: So it's people won't be able to.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's one of those things.
Speaker 4: I guess like that.
Speaker 5: It all it's all good until it's not. And then
Speaker 5: when it's not good, where do you go to after that?
Speaker 5: And maybe the job will go swimmingly and there won't
Speaker 5: be an issue, and the trees will come out in
Speaker 5: the ashveld will go down, it'll all be beautiful. But
Speaker 5: if that's not the case, then it's it's going to
Speaker 5: be really hard to get any sort of redress, isn't it.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, thank you for that.
Speaker 8: Good luck telling me what I know.
Speaker 5: Program that's very kind thank you very much all this bothery,
Speaker 5: just on the payments thing, because it's been a bit
Speaker 5: of a theme on the show today. Hey Pete, can
Speaker 5: I suggest a solution to protect good people from bad
Speaker 5: customers and likewise protect people from cowboys. Is that the
Speaker 5: government to establish a scene similar to tenancy bonds. For example,
Speaker 5: I need my driveway contracted good substitute there with ashfelt
Speaker 5: quote at fifteen grand, I put fifteen grand into a
Speaker 5: bond that's released to the contractor upon completion of the job.
Speaker 5: Under that scheme, there'd be a tribunal to claim against
Speaker 5: poor workmanship, etc. Just just the thought love you show
Speaker 5: from Paul. The last thing I want is another government
Speaker 5: department and more bureaucracy. Right interestingly enough that similar schemes
Speaker 5: do exist, And a couple of years ago I met
Speaker 5: a guy who is now running a company called I Promise,
Speaker 5: and it's essentially an scrow service. So if I'm the
Speaker 5: client and I engage a builder, let's say to do
Speaker 5: an extension, we agree that the value of the work
Speaker 5: is two hundred thousand dollars. That sum is placed into escrow,
Speaker 5: placed into a trust account, and if I accept an invoice,
Speaker 5: the money is released to the contractor, so the contractor
Speaker 5: has surety that hey, the client's got the money, and
Speaker 5: because you can see it in the account, and then
Speaker 5: I have some control that I'm only paying out when
Speaker 5: I'm satisfied that the work has been done to a
Speaker 5: suitable standard. And there are a couple of different schemes
Speaker 5: like that. So yeah, over a longer contract, there are
Speaker 5: ways of protecting yourself. They're out there right now as well.
Speaker 5: But look, the idea of the government becoming involved in this.
Speaker 5: In fact, interestingly enough, and someone mentioned this, Mike from
Speaker 5: a spy property was in as a guest actually just
Speaker 5: after I was here yesterday afternoon talking and we had
Speaker 5: a brief chat talking about bonds and that sort of thing. Look,
Speaker 5: even tendency services running the bond scheme is not terribly
Speaker 5: efficient at the moment. Apparently it's going to be upgraded. Yeah,
Speaker 5: the government having more and more influence or say, I'm
Speaker 5: not a big fan, to be fair. Eleven minutes away
Speaker 5: from eight o'clock, will take a short break. We'll talk
Speaker 5: to Allen in just a moment if you'd like to
Speaker 5: join us. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
Speaker 5: number whether.
Speaker 1: You're painting the ceiling, fixing the fens, or wondering how
Speaker 1: to fix that hole in the wall. Do you have
Speaker 1: Peter wolf Cap call on ten eighty the resident builder
Speaker 1: on News dogs B.
Speaker 5: Just a heads up as well after eight o'clock, so
Speaker 5: between eight and eight thirty an interview with doctor David Welch,
Speaker 5: who is the Associate Professor of Audiology at Auckland University,
Speaker 5: actually at the Faculty of Medical and Health Science. So
Speaker 5: his whole research is around audiology obviously, around hearing and
Speaker 5: hearing protection and the impact of hearing loss as well.
Speaker 5: So I sat down with him and we've had a
Speaker 5: bit of a chat and we've got that coming up
Speaker 5: for you straight after the eight o'clock news. Allen, A
Speaker 5: very good morning to you.
Speaker 13: Well, okay, I'm doing all right yourself.
Speaker 8: Yeah, all right, it's surviving.
Speaker 5: Good.
Speaker 8: What's I was up on me roof. I'm cleaning my
Speaker 8: house down, painting it awesome, and in the spouting I
Speaker 8: found some twenty mil screws. Twenty mil I thought, my god,
Speaker 8: how is my roof hanging on?
Speaker 13: Well?
Speaker 5: I wonder, as were you sure that they were actual
Speaker 5: roofing screws like a Hicks head.
Speaker 8: Yes, there are hicks head that been put in with
Speaker 8: a you know, a battery reatny drill thing, but they
Speaker 8: were done in the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 7: I had this.
Speaker 8: Roof put on. I'm wondering, if I've been there.
Speaker 5: For that long, possibly, what's roof in?
Speaker 16: Do you have?
Speaker 5: Ellen, what's your roof? Long run?
Speaker 8: It's long run nine corrugate. Yeah, they did the complainte
Speaker 8: to me about the removed timber and it was so
Speaker 8: hard to screw into.
Speaker 5: I wonder where whether what you've found in your archaeological
Speaker 5: survey of spouting is in fact if let's say they've
Speaker 5: hit remove peerlins and the screw has sheared off right
Speaker 5: as it's been wound in, and so the top part
Speaker 5: of it has broken off, and that.
Speaker 8: No, no, no, no, that's the whole crew. It's got
Speaker 8: weird all the way, streight all away, and then there's
Speaker 8: a yeah, yeah that goes in.
Speaker 5: Let's hope that that's not what they've fixed your roof
Speaker 5: down with. Because typically bottom of the t off the
Speaker 5: top of the ridge on a bit of corrugates about
Speaker 5: nineteen millimeters. So if you put a twenty milimeter screw
Speaker 5: in there with a little neoprene washers. If it touches
Speaker 5: the timber, that'll be good. But it's certainly not holding.
Speaker 8: Is its De're right, it's been there for since the
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety So I'm going to take a screw wither.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was going to say, get up there with
Speaker 5: a driver and pull a couple of screws out and
Speaker 5: see what the story is. Look, I mean for shimmers
Speaker 5: at least the last fifteen years or so, probably a
Speaker 5: little bit longer. Typically we have done roofing with screws, right,
Speaker 5: and there's a specific type of roofing screw. It'll have
Speaker 5: a heck's head on it. It'll have a little near
Speaker 5: prene washer underneath it. It'll have a counter thread close
Speaker 5: to the head. Then you'll have a little bit of
Speaker 5: a smooth shank, and then it'll have the standard thread
Speaker 5: and often a drill point so that rather than having
Speaker 5: to pre drill your sheets, you can, and it's a
Speaker 5: good idea to do it. You can actually drill through
Speaker 5: the sheet with the drill bit on the end of
Speaker 5: the screw, and then it'll tie itself into the peerlin
Speaker 5: and then the counter thread pushes the iron up hard
Speaker 5: against the underside of the flange of the heck's head
Speaker 5: right and seals against the washer and whether you depending
Speaker 5: on what type of perlins, what type of iron, and
Speaker 5: all the rest of it, you'll have different links screws.
Speaker 5: But that's the standard process.
Speaker 8: Ah okay, yeah, roofing screws. Yeah, it's just ordinary color steel.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah. So if it's color steel, it's a standard profile.
Speaker 5: It'll be maybe a sixty five mil screw, for example,
Speaker 5: but it's certainly not going to be a twenty mil screw.
Speaker 10: Good grief.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I can understand being a little bit distressed also,
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, look, good trades people. You shouldn't
Speaker 5: leave all your stuff in the spouting. Clean down the roof,
Speaker 5: get rid of all the swarth. Make sure you don't
Speaker 5: just sweep it into the spouting too. That's not a
Speaker 5: great sign. Good with that, and please be safe when
Speaker 5: you're up on the roof. Righty oh, we've got new
Speaker 5: sport and weather. Our interview with doctor David Welch after
Speaker 5: the eight o'clock break as red climb pass at eight thirty.
Speaker 1: Squeaky door or squeaky floor Get the right advice from
Speaker 1: Peter Wolfgaev, the resident builder on Newstalk semb.
Speaker 5: Looking forward to my conversation with doctor David Welch in
Speaker 5: just a moment. He is Associate professor of Audiology at
Speaker 5: Auckland University, and I wanted to reach out and talk
Speaker 5: about essentially hearing protection, hearing loss and more. I wanted
Speaker 5: to raise a couple of questions around people perhaps using
Speaker 5: like the noise canceling earbuds and that for hearing protection,
Speaker 5: which I had some questions about. So it's a bit
Speaker 5: of a deep dive into hearing. It's a bit of
Speaker 5: a personal thing for me. I think that it's trying
Speaker 5: to get young guys on site to be blunt, to
Speaker 5: put their bloody EMUs on. It seems to be really,
Speaker 5: really hard. But I think you might just have had
Speaker 5: bit of an epiphany there if you're listening to this
Speaker 5: in the next little while, some good information about that
Speaker 5: about hearing loss. We've got a root climb passed at
Speaker 5: eight thirty as well. A couple of people have texted
Speaker 5: and just regard to Allen's comments before the news about
Speaker 5: finding his little twenty mil screws in the spouting, so
Speaker 5: they might be flashing or gutta strap screws. Let's hope so,
Speaker 5: and someone else has just said, hey, look, lazy rufer
Speaker 5: probably just dumped a couple of short screws and when
Speaker 5: they fell out of his belt while he was up
Speaker 5: on the roof. Maybe, but I suspect that they are
Speaker 5: flashing screws. Let's hope that's the simple answer. And then gosh,
Speaker 5: this could be a whole topic for another day. I'm
Speaker 5: planning to do a wall reshuffle in my house, including
Speaker 5: a new kitchen and bathroom. Do you have any tips
Speaker 5: or advice on keeping it on the cheaper side? I
Speaker 5: could invite comment on that. We should say I'll keep
Speaker 5: that one for next week. I think that'll be a
Speaker 5: purla of a discussion for next week. How you know,
Speaker 5: if you're tradesperson and you hear a client go, how
Speaker 5: can we do it cheaper? It's maybe a sign that
Speaker 5: you go, is this the job for me? Actually? Great
Speaker 5: discussions about deposits and payments today on the show as well.
Speaker 5: Maybe well we can make that a bit of a
Speaker 5: topic in a couple of weeks time as well. Right, oh,
Speaker 5: it is coming up nine minutes after eight here at
Speaker 5: news Talk said beat back after.
Speaker 1: The break, helping you get those DIY projects done right.
Speaker 1: The resident builder with Peter Wolfcat Call OH eight eight
Speaker 1: Youth Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 5: Is Professor David Welch from the Auckland University, who is
Speaker 5: a specialist in hearing and audiology, and it's been a
Speaker 5: big concern of mine for a number of years that
Speaker 5: perhaps we don't take hearing protection as serious as we should.
Speaker 5: So it's my great pleasure to have a chance to
Speaker 5: chat with you this morning. David, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 5: Before we begin, can you just give us a bit
Speaker 5: of a background as to your work and what you're
Speaker 5: involved with at the moment.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Hi, Pete, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 20: It's really good to talk about this kind of stuff
Speaker 20: and I'm glad to hear you've been thinking about it.
Speaker 5: Sure.
Speaker 20: So I'm a scientist, I suppose I work in the
Speaker 20: audiology department at the University of Auckland and my interests
Speaker 20: are in noise very broadly. So I do work on
Speaker 20: the kind of noise that you're talking about, the kind
Speaker 20: of damages people's hearing and how we can protect ourselves
Speaker 20: and that kind of thing, but I'm also interested in
Speaker 20: the effects of noise on our health more broadly, so
Speaker 20: the stress effects of noise that does things that stopping
Speaker 20: people sleeping, and just the noise around us at all
Speaker 20: times that causes trouble. So yeah, pretty broad interest, really sure.
Speaker 5: I mean, look, it's obviously a massive field. So in
Speaker 5: terms of if you're out for a walk, right and
Speaker 5: you walk past a building site and you see a
Speaker 5: bunch of trades people there and they're using power tools
Speaker 5: and rotary hammer drills and grinders and that sort of thing,
Speaker 5: and maybe one or two of them have got hearing
Speaker 5: protection on, maybe some don't. Do you get a sense
Speaker 5: of I want to come and talk to you guys
Speaker 5: about this.
Speaker 7: Yes, sometimes I do.
Speaker 5: Oh, really fantastical.
Speaker 7: Well i'd feel bad if I didn't.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 20: Sure, people don't have to do as they say, but
Speaker 20: you know, I'll say things to people because I know
Speaker 20: how terribly impactful it can be if you lose your
Speaker 20: hearing and it's just not necessary. You know, we've got
Speaker 20: good ways of protecting hearing now, and if you're using
Speaker 20: tools like that, the sound is you know, it's at
Speaker 20: a level that will really damage your ears.
Speaker 7: So it is.
Speaker 20: It's a sad thing to see. And I get it
Speaker 20: that not everybody wants to wear it. It's uncomfortable sometimes
Speaker 20: and all of that. It's a to me, it's a
Speaker 20: trade off scenario, right, minor inconvenience right now for a
Speaker 20: quality of life in a few years time which will
Speaker 20: be much much higher.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, just in terms of like, there is obviously a
Speaker 5: level at which noise becomes damaging to our hearing. So
Speaker 5: for our listeners, how would you describe that a conversation
Speaker 5: damaging to our hearing? At what disaboue rating do we
Speaker 5: need to be concerned?
Speaker 20: Yeah, look, that's a really good question and we don't
Speaker 20: have an absolutely clear answer on that one. Legally, in
Speaker 20: New Zealand, in workplaces, if you're working for eight hours,
Speaker 20: it makes them exposure before your employer has to take
Speaker 20: action as eighty five deff adults before they have to
Speaker 20: provide you with hearing protection. But we know that over
Speaker 20: time that level of noise exposure will cause harm to
Speaker 20: some people, right And one of the problems is that
Speaker 20: people are more or less vulnerable to it, and there's
Speaker 20: no way of telling. You know, when you're say you're
Speaker 20: thirty and you're working on your building site and the
Speaker 20: other person next to you is the same age, one
Speaker 20: of you might start to develop hearing loss at a
Speaker 20: significant level, you know where you're really struggling in normal
Speaker 20: conversations in say twenty years. The other one it might
Speaker 20: take you longer, it might take thirty years. And you
Speaker 20: don't know who. You don't know which one of those
Speaker 20: two people you are at the time, so it's just
Speaker 20: a it's a mystery unfortunately. So there for the best
Speaker 20: answer is to protect yourself.
Speaker 5: So two people exposed to the same amount of noise
Speaker 5: for a similar period of time will have over time
Speaker 5: different reactions, or their hearing will be affected in different ways.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5: Wow, in terms of you know what we know about
Speaker 5: hearing loss, how much hearing loss, let's say in older age,
Speaker 5: can be contributed to exposure to excessive noise either in
Speaker 5: the workplace sor at home earlier in their lives.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, yeah, I think it's so.
Speaker 20: When they're born, we're born with a finite number of
Speaker 20: sensory cells in our ears, approximately sixteen thousand in each ear,
Speaker 20: and they're called up inside the cochlear and one of
Speaker 20: the effects of nornies exposure is to kill these cells.
Speaker 7: Basically, it overworks them.
Speaker 20: So you've got this little gull telling your brain I'm
Speaker 20: hearing something. I'm hearing something, and that action causes the
Speaker 20: cell ultimately to work itself to death and die. And
Speaker 20: so when you lose one, you're down to you know,
Speaker 20: from you, say, sixteen thousand, it's approximate numbers from your
Speaker 20: sixteen thousand down to fifteen nine hundred ninety nine. You
Speaker 20: probably aren't going to notice that the next day, Right,
Speaker 20: it's one.
Speaker 7: Dead cell out of a whole lot.
Speaker 20: But gradually you chip them away, and so as you
Speaker 20: get a bit older, you might start noticing it. And
Speaker 20: then when you when aging kicks in, which actually it
Speaker 20: starts from a round about age thirty, we're not from
Speaker 20: it thirty.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just a distant memory for.
Speaker 20: Me, but anyway, but yeah, even from a thirty our age,
Speaker 20: age is starting to cause loss of hearing. And so
Speaker 20: when that overlays on top of the cells that have
Speaker 20: been lost due to noise exposure, that obviously accelerates the process.
Speaker 7: And if you've lost.
Speaker 20: A lot of hearing in your younger years because of noise,
Speaker 20: the age related hearing loss will impact you much faster. Right,
Speaker 20: working on an already damaged system.
Speaker 5: I have to say I've never actually had it described
Speaker 5: in that manner that you've got a I've sort of
Speaker 5: got this image of knocking down pins in a bowling alley. Right,
Speaker 5: If you've got sixteen thousand of them out there and
Speaker 5: you're bowling down and you knock out ten and then
Speaker 5: you knock out another, you know, no one's putting them
Speaker 5: back up again. That's it. They're gone.
Speaker 20: Yep, yeah, they can't. That's well, you think about areas
Speaker 20: compared to the rest of our body. It doesn't heal right,
Speaker 20: the system is such that it's everything's very delicately balanced,
Speaker 20: and so in order to very quickly get rid of
Speaker 20: the damaged cells, which the air needs to do to
Speaker 20: make sure it can function normally, that part of the
Speaker 20: air scars over and so there's no way that a
Speaker 20: new hair cell can can sort of grow in its place.
Speaker 20: Some other species can do that. Frogs can do it,
Speaker 20: Birds can do it where they can redifferentiate supporting cells
Speaker 20: to turn into sensory cells.
Speaker 7: After they've lost the sensory cell.
Speaker 20: But unfortunately mammals including humans, can't do that.
Speaker 5: In terms of protecting our ears in a high noise environment,
Speaker 5: and that might be people working at home using you know,
Speaker 5: mowing the lawns, or using a chainsaw, or doing some
Speaker 5: work in the workshop, or sanding down the house, those
Speaker 5: sorts of things. My own opinion, based just on my
Speaker 5: own experience, is that hearing protection should be ear muffs,
Speaker 5: right like a covering over the years, one of the things.
Speaker 5: And I have no scientific background as to why I
Speaker 5: believe this, but I see increasing numbers of trades people
Speaker 5: using essentially in ear earphones that are noise canceling as
Speaker 5: hearing protection, and I'll just be blunt, I'm not convinced
Speaker 5: that they offer hearing protection in a conventional sense. Is
Speaker 5: there any research on this? What do we know about
Speaker 5: the impact of noise canceling in the ear earbuds versus
Speaker 5: ear muffs.
Speaker 20: Well, look, I think you've hit on a really interesting area,
Speaker 20: and it's one that I'll freely admit I don't know
Speaker 20: the answer to. I don't think anybody does, but I'm
Speaker 20: more than happy to discuss it.
Speaker 5: Sure, So.
Speaker 7: You mentioned a muffs.
Speaker 5: The ear defenders great big cans that sit over urears
Speaker 5: and just they block out as much sound as possible.
Speaker 20: Yeah, Yeah, that's right. And they do it through sort
Speaker 20: of two main mechanisms. One is they've got that hard
Speaker 20: out of shell, yes, that acts as a barrier to
Speaker 20: the sound. And then they've also got the padding inside yep,
Speaker 20: that absorbs some of the sound that comes through the shell,
Speaker 20: and so they protect areas really quite well. Ear plugs
Speaker 20: are also good, so you know the same sort of
Speaker 20: thing that you do. Put them into your ear canal
Speaker 20: and they basically seal off the air canal. And whether
Speaker 20: it's those foam ones which if you roll them up
Speaker 20: and push them deeply into your canal they work really
Speaker 20: really well, or they're the kind of plastic flanged ones, yes,
Speaker 20: pushing as well. So all of those things work, and
Speaker 20: they're designed for protecting people's hearing the high sound level environments,
Speaker 20: and so the manufacturers of those things have to go
Speaker 20: through quite quite rigorous testing procedures with all their product
Speaker 20: and that's where we get the rating system that we use,
Speaker 20: which is based on I think called the.
Speaker 7: Slc AT, which is they get people to fit the.
Speaker 20: Air muscle the air plugs and actually test how much
Speaker 20: protection they're getting from them. So there's a really good
Speaker 20: set of processes around that. Getting on to your point
Speaker 20: about noise canceling air buds.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, different, Sorry, do you have an opinion.
Speaker 20: My opinion, you know, as a scientist, in my opinion
Speaker 20: is I don't know. I can't As a sciences I
Speaker 20: can't say. So I suppose what I'd advise people is
Speaker 20: to just be careful and you know, stick with the
Speaker 20: the stuff that we know to be safe. But look,
Speaker 20: I think that might be a bit too conservative, because
Speaker 20: it is perfectly possible that those little air buds could
Speaker 20: be effective. And I'll tell you what what I know,
Speaker 20: which is the it has been a starts. I'm aware
Speaker 20: one scientific study done, and it was done a few
Speaker 20: years ago, maybe four or five years ago, where they
Speaker 20: actually tested out some of those devices. And one of
Speaker 20: the problems with this is, of course there are hundreds
Speaker 20: of them right each you know, Headshone company a few
Speaker 20: different models and they change every year and all that stuff.
Speaker 20: So they tested the ones that were around there, and
Speaker 20: some of them did seem to work. The point of
Speaker 20: having something that sits in your ecinal if.
Speaker 7: It feels in all those sort of little.
Speaker 20: Rubber mushroom things that grip this grip the sides of
Speaker 20: the ear canal wall, it does actually present quite an
Speaker 20: effective barrier to the incoming sound. So can help it
Speaker 20: can be light wearing a pair of air plugs. I
Speaker 20: used to have something. They've broken there, but I used
Speaker 20: to have some that were literally ear plugs on the
Speaker 20: ends of the speakers, so they were like earbuds with
Speaker 20: ear plugs built into them. Yes, and you could swop.
Speaker 7: The air plug part.
Speaker 20: They wore out, unfortunately, the electronic bit side. So it
Speaker 20: is possible to get ones that are designed these were
Speaker 20: a three M when I think that I had. Yep,
Speaker 20: you can get ones that are designed as earbuds that
Speaker 20: have an occluding effect that block the incoming sound. But
Speaker 20: you're talking about the ones that are more designed as
Speaker 20: noise canceling, so they'll use electronic active cancelation of the
Speaker 20: incoming sound by generating a waveform that's one hundred and
Speaker 20: ninety degrees out of phase with the incoming sound. They're
Speaker 20: canceling the sound itself right in an active manner rather
Speaker 20: than a passive blocking manner. And you know that does
Speaker 20: as we know, when we listen to it, you can't
Speaker 20: hear the sound, and so being unable to hear the
Speaker 20: sound is a pretty good clue that it's not damaging areas.
Speaker 20: If it doesn't sound loud, chances are it's at a
Speaker 20: level that isn't damaging areas too much. However, sometimes sound
Speaker 20: will be blocked out in some frequencies, so it sounds muffled,
Speaker 20: but not in other frequencies that get in and cause
Speaker 20: the damage. And so you can't always trust your perception
Speaker 20: on that one. And that's why I'm being a bit
Speaker 20: cagy sure in terms of answering you, Well, they might
Speaker 20: well protect, but they also might not, depending on right
Speaker 20: how well they're designed.
Speaker 5: And I guess there are a relatively new innovation and
Speaker 5: so maybe we haven't. And you know, out of respect
Speaker 5: to the producers and manufacturers of them, they probably don't
Speaker 5: intend them or they may not intend them to be
Speaker 5: used in an industrial or high noise environment for hearing protection,
Speaker 5: you know, in accordance with health and safety guidelines for example.
Speaker 5: Whereas you know, if we go back to earlier in
Speaker 5: the conversation we're talking about, if I go and I
Speaker 5: buy a set of you know, muff tech ear muffs
Speaker 5: or three m ear muffs or peltors or something like that,
Speaker 5: you know, I can look on the box and it
Speaker 5: will tell me what they've been tested to.
Speaker 20: Yes, yes, and they're independently tested as well, but it's
Speaker 20: not just the company saying these are good. It's that
Speaker 20: it's it's been separately tested by experts.
Speaker 5: And there's an objective standard to that.
Speaker 7: That's right. Yes. The other issue to bring up, we're
Speaker 7: thing to music on the website. Of course, not only does.
Speaker 20: Noise cancelation and the occlusion of your can i'll prevent
Speaker 20: noise coming in, but also the sound of the music
Speaker 20: makes it hard to hear other things, like they're saying, hey,
Speaker 20: watch out, there's something about to run into you. Yeah,
Speaker 20: so there's another danger there as well, which isn't so
Speaker 20: much hearing but is also real.
Speaker 5: Certainly, I'm aware of some sites where, you know, site
Speaker 5: foreman or health and safety people have said to people
Speaker 5: working on the site, I'm sorry, you just can't wear
Speaker 5: that type of hearing protection. If you're have then got
Speaker 5: like I've got bluetooth, you must. And so I'll listen
Speaker 5: to a podcast and those sorts of things. I'll listen
Speaker 5: to the show while I'm working with them. But I'd
Speaker 5: like to think that I have it down at a
Speaker 5: level one that it's not causing hearing loss because I'm
Speaker 5: blasting music into my ears under and also that I'm
Speaker 5: still aware of my surroundings because it's a high risk environment, right,
Speaker 5: you do need to be able to be alerted.
Speaker 20: Yeah, yeah, And you raise a good point there about
Speaker 20: the blasting the music at such a high level the
Speaker 20: mass as your harm. So that's the other side of
Speaker 20: the flip side of the noise canceling headphones, which is
Speaker 20: of course because they do reduce the external sound level
Speaker 20: coming into your ear, so it doesn't tend to drown
Speaker 20: out your music.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 20: People do tend to listen to their music at lower
Speaker 20: levels through them, so that's a good thing in the
Speaker 20: terms of one of the things we're worried about is
Speaker 20: that the prevalence of earbuds might mean that people are
Speaker 20: damaging their ears from that through industrial or toolofs or whatever.
Speaker 5: Oh look, it's just such a fascinating field. And I
Speaker 5: just in terms of, you know, if you were to
Speaker 5: offer up some general advice, and I like you really
Speaker 5: a comment. You know, there are older ear muffs and
Speaker 5: that sort of thing were often uncomfortable. The padding wasn't great,
Speaker 5: the fit wasn't particularly good, they were heavy or they
Speaker 5: were bulky, and so on the ones that I wear,
Speaker 5: you know, I find them quite comfortable. I've got some
Speaker 5: that are much bigger for high, really high noise environments,
Speaker 5: others that are a little bit more SLIMLW those sorts
Speaker 5: of things. So I just I just find it. If
Speaker 5: you were just to add, you know, if you wanted
Speaker 5: to say to someone you're starting out life in the trade,
Speaker 5: what do you do with your ears? What would you say?
Speaker 20: Okay, well, I'd say you protect them because of that
Speaker 20: issue that once they get damaged, they don't get fixed.
Speaker 7: So you've got what you've.
Speaker 20: Got, and if you let them get exposed to too
Speaker 20: much noise, it'll it'll go. And of course the other
Speaker 20: exposures you've got to noise, you know, you're the things
Speaker 20: you do for fun, listening to music, going to concerts,
Speaker 20: or going out dancing or whatever else you like to
Speaker 20: do that will also cause you damage, you know, a
Speaker 20: nightcap one hundred decimals. You've also got to factor all
Speaker 20: that stuff in, and so the more you can do
Speaker 20: to protect your ears from sound that isn't very nice
Speaker 20: to listen to. Let's be honest, no one enjoys listening.
Speaker 20: I don't enjoy listening to the sound of powertools. That's
Speaker 20: not a presence kind of sound, so you may as
Speaker 20: well just cut it out as you possibly can and
Speaker 20: protect her from it. Your idea, and you know, to me,
Speaker 20: I really like that if you if it's a safe
Speaker 20: environment to be listening to some music, getting things that
Speaker 20: are designed for the purpose Bluetooth must so that there
Speaker 20: they are, you know how much they're protecting you, and
Speaker 20: you can still listen to the music through them. I
Speaker 20: mean that seems to be a best of both worlds
Speaker 20: kind of scenari to me, So that'd be one piece
Speaker 20: of advice. The other thing you can do is to
Speaker 20: find out what your sound levels are. Everyone's got a smartphone.
Speaker 20: I mean I've got an iPhones. I've got an app
Speaker 20: from that runs on that which is the American equivalent
Speaker 20: of work SOACES called niosh. It's in io S National
Speaker 20: Institutes of Occupational Safety and Health, and it made a
Speaker 20: nice sound level meter app is pretty accurate. It can
Speaker 20: be calibrated but on an iPhone because the systems are
Speaker 20: the same across all the phones, they can just the
Speaker 20: basic form of it is, you know, pretty much accurate.
Speaker 20: I've tested against proper sound level meters and you can
Speaker 20: measure the sound level around you, so to give you
Speaker 20: an idea.
Speaker 7: Of what what what your actual exposure is.
Speaker 20: And if it's you know, and if it's in the
Speaker 20: low eighties, you know, I'd say, well, you might be
Speaker 20: okay where you're noise canceling headphones, and it's probably okay.
Speaker 20: If it's getting up above that, then I'd say, well
Speaker 20: you may as well, you know, put your arms on
Speaker 20: or put.
Speaker 7: Your proper airplugs.
Speaker 20: Then yeah, and that way you know you're being protected
Speaker 20: and so you can sort of use your common sense
Speaker 20: a bit more once you've got the information to go on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess you know. That for me takes me
Speaker 5: back to your original one of your earlier comments around
Speaker 5: We've got about sixteen thousand of these individual cells and
Speaker 5: each year, right, and once they're gone, they're gone. Right,
Speaker 5: They're not growing back. We're not frogs, we're not birds.
Speaker 5: And I just look at that now, and I do
Speaker 5: genuinely hope that someone listening to this, who's thinking do
Speaker 5: I put my headphones on today? Do I put my
Speaker 5: hearing protection on? Listens to that and goes, I've got
Speaker 5: one chance to save my years. I'm going to take
Speaker 5: that chance. Yeah, Yeah, fantastic. Professor David Welsh. Thank you
Speaker 5: so much for your time. I've really enjoyed the conversation
Speaker 5: and I think this is just some fantastic information and
Speaker 5: I really appreciate it.
Speaker 7: Oh, cheers, Peter. It's a great pleasure.
Speaker 5: Pleasure take care. News Talks ed b rdio from one
Speaker 5: from one doctor to another. Doctor Rudd Climb Past is
Speaker 5: with us in just a moment. If you've got a
Speaker 5: gardening question, call us right now. Oh eight hundred eighty ten.
Speaker 1: Eighty good measure twice God once, but maybe call Pete first.
Speaker 1: Peter Wolfcamp, The Resident Builder, News Talks EDB. For more
Speaker 1: from the Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp, listen live to
Speaker 1: News Talks EDB on Sunday mornings from Sex, or follow
Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.