WEBVTT - Full Show Podcast: 09 March 2025 0:00:06.815 --> 0:00:10.655 You're listening to the Resident Builder podcast with Peter Wolfcamp 0:00:10.855 --> 0:00:15.015 from news Talks at by Meta twice God once, but 0:00:15.295 --> 0:00:18.495 maybe call Pete first. Peter wolf Camp, The Resident Builder 0:00:18.655 --> 0:00:19.735 News Talk said by. 0:00:22.575 --> 0:00:28.375 The House Sizzoro, even when it's dark, even when the 0:00:28.455 --> 0:00:30.055 grass is overgrown in. 0:00:30.015 --> 0:00:35.335 The yard, even when the dog is too old to bar, 0:00:37.055 --> 0:00:40.055 and when you're sitting at the table trying not to 0:00:40.215 --> 0:00:43.455 start scissor. 0:00:43.175 --> 0:00:47.775 Home, even when we are benn. 0:00:48.015 --> 0:00:49.615 Even when you're there. 0:01:01.615 --> 0:01:07.055 House sizzor Home, even when those ghost when you go 0:01:07.295 --> 0:01:13.135 around from the ones you love, your move scream, bolting pains, 0:01:13.135 --> 0:01:14.695 appeel in front of the world. 0:01:16.455 --> 0:01:24.695 Locals vestible when they're gone, leaving them, even when we'll 0:01:25.055 --> 0:01:29.015 be even when you're in there alone. 0:01:39.255 --> 0:01:41.775 Well, very very good morning, and welcome along to the 0:01:41.775 --> 0:01:44.615 Resident Builder on Sunday. You're with me Pete wolf Camp, 0:01:44.655 --> 0:01:49.095 the Resident Builder, and we are here to talk about building. Surprise, surprise. 0:01:49.455 --> 0:01:52.055 We are going to talk about all of the myriad 0:01:52.735 --> 0:01:57.255 elements involved in building and construction, whether that's the planning, 0:01:57.295 --> 0:02:01.495 the thinking, or the doing, the actual hands on or 0:02:01.535 --> 0:02:05.415 the legislative framework that allows us to build. In fact, 0:02:05.415 --> 0:02:08.495 I just of open emails and I've been having sort 0:02:08.495 --> 0:02:10.975 of an ongoing discussion with a gentleman who emailed the 0:02:11.015 --> 0:02:14.175 other day saying, hey, look, I think that you can 0:02:14.215 --> 0:02:17.175 actually change the size of windows under Schedule one of 0:02:17.255 --> 0:02:21.375 the Building Act. I'm disagreeing, and so anyway, that's an 0:02:21.415 --> 0:02:26.095 ongoing sort of intellectual I guess it is theoretical discussion 0:02:26.175 --> 0:02:28.695 around what's included and Schedule one of the Building Act 0:02:29.695 --> 0:02:32.415 in terms of work that you could do without necessarily 0:02:32.455 --> 0:02:35.975 requiring it consent. So we can talk about that sort 0:02:35.975 --> 0:02:39.335 of side of things, the legislation, the rules and regulations, 0:02:39.375 --> 0:02:43.255 how you stay on the right side of compliance, because 0:02:43.295 --> 0:02:47.815 certainly when you stray off that, it becomes it's just 0:02:48.015 --> 0:02:50.895 murky territory. It's a quagmire out there. If you stay 0:02:50.895 --> 0:02:53.495 on the path, it's all good. If you wander off, 0:02:53.575 --> 0:02:55.935 it'll take you places you don't want to go, and 0:02:56.015 --> 0:02:57.775 it'll take you a long time to get back to 0:02:57.815 --> 0:03:00.495 the path. In fact, during the course of the week, 0:03:00.575 --> 0:03:03.695 just by the Bye, I was reading through a LIMB 0:03:03.815 --> 0:03:07.895 report for a property, and the main reason that I 0:03:07.975 --> 0:03:11.375 read through them is that I'm looking for information about 0:03:11.495 --> 0:03:14.815 building consents that were issued and whether or not they've 0:03:14.855 --> 0:03:18.415 been signed off and have been issued a code Compliance 0:03:18.455 --> 0:03:21.415 Certificate at the end of it. And typically for all 0:03:21.495 --> 0:03:23.415 of the ones that I've read, and it would be 0:03:23.455 --> 0:03:27.535 a reasonable number nowadays, it will talk about a building consent, 0:03:27.775 --> 0:03:31.535 it'll give a rough description of the work, extension, alterations, 0:03:31.695 --> 0:03:34.015 new garage, et cetera, et cetera, and then it will 0:03:34.015 --> 0:03:38.415 say either CCC issued or no CCC issued. And the 0:03:38.415 --> 0:03:41.975 other day I read one that said CCC declined and 0:03:42.015 --> 0:03:45.135 it was note ten and it talked about determinations which 0:03:45.135 --> 0:03:49.295 are either with the Building Content Authority, the BCA, or 0:03:49.495 --> 0:03:54.215 with the Ministry of Housing and Construction which has now 0:03:54.215 --> 0:03:56.455 gone it's all part of mb now And I was like, well, 0:03:56.455 --> 0:03:59.455 that's really intriguing. So somewhere along the line Council have 0:03:59.575 --> 0:04:03.895 refused to issue ACCC as a result of a determination, 0:04:03.975 --> 0:04:07.295 so obviously there was an argument there. That's what I'm 0:04:07.295 --> 0:04:09.455 saying about the legislation. Or we can get into the 0:04:09.455 --> 0:04:12.375 practical stuff. What do you choose, what do you need, 0:04:13.015 --> 0:04:15.335 what do you use and when do you use it? 0:04:15.735 --> 0:04:21.175 And also in terms of tradespeople and contracting and getting 0:04:21.335 --> 0:04:23.535 the right people to do the right job at the 0:04:23.615 --> 0:04:26.255 right time and for the right price. We can talk 0:04:26.255 --> 0:04:28.735 about all of these sorts of things. So if you've 0:04:28.775 --> 0:04:31.975 got a project that you're undertaking, perhaps you've got a 0:04:32.775 --> 0:04:36.375 project that you're thinking about doing in the some stage 0:04:36.415 --> 0:04:38.255 in the future, or perhaps you've got a project that 0:04:38.735 --> 0:04:41.135 you've got stuck into and it's not quite going the 0:04:41.135 --> 0:04:43.215 way that you thought it would go. Well, all of 0:04:43.255 --> 0:04:48.215 these things within building, construction, renovating, altering. Maybe you're looking 0:04:48.255 --> 0:04:51.495 to make a really good house and you want to 0:04:51.535 --> 0:04:54.455 know how to go about that. We can talk about 0:04:54.495 --> 0:04:56.855 all these things on the program this morning. So eight 0:04:56.975 --> 0:04:59.415 hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. The 0:04:59.495 --> 0:05:02.975 texts are up and running. It's nine two nine two 0:05:03.095 --> 0:05:05.695 is zbzb from your mobile phone. And if you'd like 0:05:05.735 --> 0:05:08.015 to see anym well, you are more than welcome. It's 0:05:08.495 --> 0:05:13.175 Pete at newstooks headb dot co dot nz. So like 0:05:13.415 --> 0:05:15.415 Gary has taken the opportunity to email, if you'd like 0:05:15.455 --> 0:05:17.695 to email, like I say, it's Pete at newstooks headb 0:05:17.855 --> 0:05:20.975 dot co dot en zaid, now I trust you've had 0:05:21.015 --> 0:05:23.495 a good week. Suddenly I don't know whether it's just me, 0:05:23.615 --> 0:05:26.735 but suddenly we've gone from summer. Gosh, I'm leaving the 0:05:26.735 --> 0:05:28.975 windows open at night, hoping that it's not going to 0:05:29.015 --> 0:05:31.135 be twenty five degrees in the bedroom at night. That 0:05:31.215 --> 0:05:33.615 sort of thing too. I was doing some stuff in 0:05:33.655 --> 0:05:35.895 the kitchen, thinking, oh, I'm just going to close the window. 0:05:35.935 --> 0:05:38.455 It's got a bit chilly. All of a sudden, I 0:05:38.495 --> 0:05:40.935 came into the city yesterday to do a little session 0:05:40.975 --> 0:05:44.655 with Tim Beveridge and Anna Burns Francis on the radio, 0:05:45.095 --> 0:05:48.375 and suddenly there's leaves on the you know, all the 0:05:48.375 --> 0:05:51.495 big plane trees around the edge of Victoria Park. The 0:05:51.495 --> 0:05:55.215 wind's blowing, it's dropping the leaves. Suddenly it's autumnal out there, 0:05:55.295 --> 0:05:58.055 which is lovely into I mean, I think the weather's fantastic. 0:05:58.095 --> 0:06:00.215 I'd love to have a little more rain, but it's beautiful. 0:06:00.495 --> 0:06:04.015 But also it sort of signals that time where if 0:06:04.055 --> 0:06:07.695 you've thought like I have right, I've got these jobs, 0:06:07.735 --> 0:06:10.615 I'm going to get them done over summer, suddenly you're thinking, 0:06:10.815 --> 0:06:13.135 I don't have that many days left, right, the weather's 0:06:13.135 --> 0:06:16.015 going to turn, it's going to get cold. Maybe I 0:06:16.055 --> 0:06:18.135 can't start as earlier, I can't paint as late in 0:06:18.175 --> 0:06:20.175 the day. So if there's some projects that you want 0:06:20.215 --> 0:06:24.535 to get out of the way before autumn really kicks 0:06:24.535 --> 0:06:27.935 in and before winter sets in we can talk about 0:06:27.935 --> 0:06:31.495 those as well, but right now the opportunity is all yours. 0:06:31.695 --> 0:06:34.295 Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call. 0:06:34.495 --> 0:06:36.655 We're going to chat to a builder a little bit 0:06:36.735 --> 0:06:40.415 later on about using jaframe, which is really cool. Also, 0:06:40.655 --> 0:06:44.495 I have had the opportunity of having a fairly lengthy discussion, 0:06:44.575 --> 0:06:49.895 thankfully with Professor David Welch Welsh rather, who is a 0:06:50.375 --> 0:06:53.935 professor of audiology at the Auckland University, so essentially a 0:06:53.975 --> 0:06:58.375 scientist who spent his life looking at audiology, hearing and 0:06:58.415 --> 0:07:02.655 in particular hearing loss. It's a little bit, I'll be 0:07:02.735 --> 0:07:04.655 really honest, it's a bit of a crusade for me, 0:07:06.095 --> 0:07:09.655 and it took me a while to find someone who 0:07:09.695 --> 0:07:14.655 could speak really honestly around hearing loss and the need 0:07:14.735 --> 0:07:18.255 for hearing protection. So I've had that discussion with him. 0:07:18.575 --> 0:07:21.055 He's going to join us just after eight o'clock this morning, 0:07:21.415 --> 0:07:23.855 after eight to thirty. Of course, we're into the garden 0:07:23.975 --> 0:07:28.295 with the delightful and effervescent red cline Pass, doctor ridclin 0:07:28.375 --> 0:07:32.055 Pass after eight thirty this morning, talking gardening and all 0:07:32.175 --> 0:07:35.855 things entomololgical. So looking forward to that as well, but 0:07:35.935 --> 0:07:38.455 right now it's your opportunity. What's on your mind? What 0:07:38.455 --> 0:07:41.335 would you like to talk about? What concerns you? Troubles 0:07:41.375 --> 0:07:43.935 you keeps you awake at night when it comes to 0:07:44.055 --> 0:07:47.375 building and construction. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty 0:07:47.655 --> 0:07:50.095 is the number to call. And a very good morning 0:07:50.095 --> 0:07:50.695 to you, Lisa. 0:07:51.815 --> 0:07:52.495 How are you paying? 0:07:52.575 --> 0:07:53.855 Yeah, I'm very well in yourself. 0:07:54.655 --> 0:07:55.375 Good thank you. 0:07:56.095 --> 0:07:56.215 Hi. 0:07:56.335 --> 0:07:56.535 Am. 0:07:56.575 --> 0:07:58.695 So I've got a bit of an interesting one for you. 0:07:59.295 --> 0:08:03.935 About eleven years ago, I purchased a house, you know, 0:08:04.135 --> 0:08:08.495 like one of those I said a pronounce. 0:08:08.015 --> 0:08:09.455 For being leaky buildings. 0:08:10.535 --> 0:08:13.055 But I got a building report done on it and 0:08:13.095 --> 0:08:17.015 it was perfectly sound at the time, and had my 0:08:17.135 --> 0:08:20.815 lawyer chip this title and the real estate agent. 0:08:20.575 --> 0:08:21.095 You know, the. 0:08:22.735 --> 0:08:26.415 The checked it out thoroughly as well. And when I 0:08:26.455 --> 0:08:30.775 went to sell it three years later, the agent pulled 0:08:30.815 --> 0:08:33.495 a limb and it had no cc on it that 0:08:33.975 --> 0:08:38.415 anyone everyone had overlooked and fluted myself because I didn't 0:08:38.455 --> 0:08:40.295 pull a limb when. 0:08:40.175 --> 0:08:41.055 I purchased it. 0:08:41.295 --> 0:08:50.335 So got on breakfast. So looking into looking into you know, 0:08:50.415 --> 0:08:55.535 the whole situation further. What happened was it built on 0:08:55.695 --> 0:08:59.775 in a sheared driveway, where I don't own the driveway. 0:08:59.815 --> 0:09:03.575 I've just got legal access to the driveway, and the 0:09:03.655 --> 0:09:08.655 same building company, A One Builders, built two houses on 0:09:08.695 --> 0:09:12.975 that driveway and the only thing that wasn't signed off 0:09:13.015 --> 0:09:17.695 on my property were the piles that wanted piles. 0:09:16.655 --> 0:09:17.815 That have not shifted. 0:09:18.415 --> 0:09:23.055 It's fully healthy homes Compliant had had the piles have 0:09:23.215 --> 0:09:28.935 not shifted, And as far as the council is concerned, 0:09:29.575 --> 0:09:33.335 I has to. It has to be apt to building 0:09:33.415 --> 0:09:37.255 code of today, not you know, the odd years ago when. 0:09:37.095 --> 0:09:37.815 It was built. 0:09:38.295 --> 0:09:42.935 So I get that, but I'm just a little bit 0:09:43.295 --> 0:09:46.295 perplexed because I ended up beinging in touch with the 0:09:46.415 --> 0:09:53.935 solicitor who did a big project was towering houses at 0:09:53.935 --> 0:09:57.455 the crossing that were put I don't know if you 0:09:57.495 --> 0:09:59.535 heard about that, that there was a big drama, whether 0:09:59.615 --> 0:10:02.815 it made the news over and over again. I spoke 0:10:02.895 --> 0:10:08.095 to that barrister. His opinion, I receiveral phone walls and 0:10:08.175 --> 0:10:10.735 lots of digging around, and either I'm saying, no, it's 0:10:10.775 --> 0:10:14.175 not our problem because read the disclaimer on the report 0:10:16.815 --> 0:10:20.375 indicators that what I should be doing is just getting 0:10:20.455 --> 0:10:23.895 rid of it just to sell us right. So I 0:10:23.935 --> 0:10:27.295 am in the process now of renovating that house with 0:10:27.415 --> 0:10:29.855 my partner and we're just going to turn it into 0:10:29.895 --> 0:10:35.175 a rental. Do you think a that's a good idea? 0:10:35.895 --> 0:10:36.215 Am I? 0:10:36.335 --> 0:10:36.775 Legally? 0:10:37.695 --> 0:10:46.055 Yeah? Well okay, okay, so just excuse me, sorry, craky, Hey, sorry, 0:10:46.055 --> 0:10:47.975 I'm just just at the end of that bloody cold 0:10:48.015 --> 0:10:53.055 that's been hanging around all week. Peacht it's really good 0:10:53.175 --> 0:10:55.095 looked in peacht I'll put that on the list. 0:10:55.895 --> 0:10:56.535 Yeah, lovely. 0:10:56.695 --> 0:11:00.335 I mean, Hindsight's is twenty twenty. But I'm surprised that 0:11:00.535 --> 0:11:04.295 something as straightforward as reading the limb when you purchase 0:11:04.375 --> 0:11:06.095 the house eleven years ago, and we're not talking the 0:11:06.495 --> 0:11:10.295 dark past when these things didn't exist, right, that no 0:11:10.375 --> 0:11:14.215 one realized that, hey, building consent such and such never 0:11:14.375 --> 0:11:16.695 got sea and I presume that the building consent for 0:11:16.735 --> 0:11:20.295 the original work was done. Is the house older than 0:11:20.735 --> 0:11:25.655 nineteen ninety one when was the house itself built? 0:11:26.375 --> 0:11:31.095 It is just older than nineteen ninety one and everything 0:11:31.135 --> 0:11:32.215 out of the building. 0:11:33.095 --> 0:11:36.335 The reason that that's really really important is that around 0:11:36.375 --> 0:11:38.935 ninety ninety one is when the Building Act changed and 0:11:38.975 --> 0:11:43.375 we had the introduction of essentially a different framework. We 0:11:43.455 --> 0:11:47.775 went from building permits to building consents, building consents require 0:11:48.575 --> 0:11:53.735 a CCC to be issued to complete them. Building permits don't, right, 0:11:54.135 --> 0:11:57.495 So it just wasn't part of the legislation, So you 0:11:57.535 --> 0:12:01.895 can't be expected to get a CCC for something that 0:12:02.055 --> 0:12:05.895 had a building permit. So I just wonder whether, and 0:12:05.935 --> 0:12:08.095 I'm sure sure your lawyers have already checked this, but 0:12:08.135 --> 0:12:10.495 you'd need to go back and look at the detail 0:12:10.535 --> 0:12:14.335 and go did this building get a building permit or 0:12:14.375 --> 0:12:17.295 did it get a building consent? Is it pre nineteen 0:12:17.375 --> 0:12:21.775 ninety one or post nineteen ninety one, in which case 0:12:23.415 --> 0:12:27.215 it's irrelevant. Right, Well, it's highly relevant because you don't 0:12:27.255 --> 0:12:31.095 need one. So but let's say it's post nineteen ninety 0:12:31.095 --> 0:12:34.375 one and there is a building consent that never got 0:12:34.615 --> 0:12:37.735 its CCC, and you're now trying to get the CCC. 0:12:38.615 --> 0:12:42.055 That is going to be a reasonably challenging process, right 0:12:42.135 --> 0:12:44.935 So if but at the same time, if what you've 0:12:44.975 --> 0:12:47.295 done is identify the fact that the only thing that 0:12:47.455 --> 0:12:51.215 was not signed off was the house piles, you could 0:12:51.255 --> 0:12:54.775 potentially have a building survey or an engineer come do 0:12:54.815 --> 0:12:59.415 an investigation, determine that it's compliant, and then that would 0:12:59.455 --> 0:13:05.575 give you a pathway to two compliance and then the 0:13:05.735 --> 0:13:09.655 other thing that you know, it's a really interesting one 0:13:09.655 --> 0:13:12.535 and I haven't dug down to the bottom of this yet, 0:13:12.535 --> 0:13:15.935 but there someone sent me a ruling from the district 0:13:15.935 --> 0:13:21.495 court about a year ago where a landlord had a 0:13:21.495 --> 0:13:27.735 property that they were renting obviously that didn't have a CCC. 0:13:28.695 --> 0:13:33.415 The tenant took them to the tenancy tribunal to say, 0:13:33.615 --> 0:13:36.575 you're not supposed to rent a property. If you've got 0:13:36.575 --> 0:13:40.015 a house that you're renting and it's had work that 0:13:40.095 --> 0:13:42.895 required a CCC and you don't have one, you shouldn't 0:13:42.935 --> 0:13:44.135 be renting that house out. 0:13:44.255 --> 0:13:44.455 Now. 0:13:44.815 --> 0:13:48.735 I think this has got quite wide ranging impacts, right 0:13:49.095 --> 0:13:52.855 because I respect but I've seen the ruling from the 0:13:52.895 --> 0:13:55.055 district court. I think it was actually in told wrong. 0:13:56.135 --> 0:13:58.295 So you know, in terms of you saying, well, look, 0:13:58.295 --> 0:14:00.335 we're just going to renovate it and rent it out, 0:14:01.415 --> 0:14:03.815 that might not be that straightforward either. 0:14:04.735 --> 0:14:08.455 Because it's really the story does have a bit more 0:14:08.495 --> 0:14:11.295 to it and both ends of the house needs to 0:14:11.375 --> 0:14:14.815 be reclared because of water proofing issues. 0:14:15.335 --> 0:14:17.695 Okay, well that requires a building consumer. 0:14:18.175 --> 0:14:20.255 Yeah, d and I never got one. 0:14:20.295 --> 0:14:27.655 I did lights a lot, okay, right, you've got a load. Anyway, 0:14:28.215 --> 0:14:32.095 It's not going to be simple. And look when we 0:14:32.135 --> 0:14:35.015 talk about sail and purchase and having a CCC and not, 0:14:35.455 --> 0:14:38.175 you can sell a building without a CCC right. So 0:14:38.215 --> 0:14:45.015 there's as a as an individual, I know, for developers 0:14:45.055 --> 0:14:47.455 or people in the trade. If you've built a house 0:14:47.615 --> 0:14:49.975 and you want to sell it. So if I'm if 0:14:50.015 --> 0:14:52.215 I do a speaky right as a as a licensed 0:14:52.215 --> 0:14:55.775 building practitioner, I can't sell it without a CCC because 0:14:55.775 --> 0:14:59.135 that's a requirement. If I'm a homeowner like you and 0:14:59.215 --> 0:15:00.975 I do some work on the property and I didn't 0:15:01.015 --> 0:15:03.335 get it, I didn't get it signed off or whatever, 0:15:03.615 --> 0:15:06.455 I can still sell the house without a CCC. But 0:15:07.375 --> 0:15:10.695 people will take that as a reason to beat you 0:15:10.735 --> 0:15:12.775 down on price. Basically is how I'd say. 0:15:12.855 --> 0:15:17.495 Yeah, and that number and as total on a market 0:15:17.855 --> 0:15:25.735 is about two hundred thousand dollars less basically land value. 0:15:25.935 --> 0:15:29.055 Essentially the house becomes a liability and you're just selling 0:15:29.055 --> 0:15:34.055 the land. Yeah, And part of that is someone it's 0:15:34.055 --> 0:15:36.895 an opportunity for someone else to go through the compliance pathway, 0:15:36.975 --> 0:15:39.415 take the risk and get the capital gain on that, 0:15:40.255 --> 0:15:42.815 or you decide that you're going to do it yourself 0:15:43.015 --> 0:15:49.015 and spend time and effort and probably a reasonable amount 0:15:49.055 --> 0:15:52.695 of money getting the building compliant in order to keep 0:15:52.735 --> 0:15:57.055 your value and the property. Yeah, but you know it 0:15:57.855 --> 0:16:01.055 in there is that intrigue around what date was the 0:16:01.055 --> 0:16:08.015 actual construction? When was the Huntrey five? Okay, then you're 0:16:08.055 --> 0:16:14.815 well within the criteria. It needs a CCCS. You take 0:16:14.855 --> 0:16:18.415 care all the best. Then eight hundred eighty ten eighty 0:16:18.535 --> 0:16:20.335 is the number to call. We can talk legislation, we 0:16:20.375 --> 0:16:22.535 can talk the practical stuff as well. If you've got 0:16:22.535 --> 0:16:24.615 a project on that you would like to talk about, 0:16:24.655 --> 0:16:27.255 call us now. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is 0:16:27.295 --> 0:16:29.335 that number to call. Got some interviews lined up for 0:16:29.335 --> 0:16:30.855 a little bit later on the show, so now it's 0:16:30.895 --> 0:16:33.895 a perfect time to call, and a couple of great 0:16:34.015 --> 0:16:36.295 texts as well. I'm going to have to think about 0:16:36.295 --> 0:16:41.655 this for a moment, morning, Pete. In the current economic climate, 0:16:41.695 --> 0:16:44.575 what would you expect to play as an hourly rate 0:16:44.695 --> 0:16:48.255 for a tradesman carpenter. I'm not asking what you think 0:16:48.295 --> 0:16:50.935 they're worth. I mean, in good times they're all worth 0:16:50.935 --> 0:16:53.775 a million dollars an hour. So when times aren't good, 0:16:54.015 --> 0:16:56.535 what would be realistic? And then they put out a number, 0:16:56.775 --> 0:16:58.575 We'll come back and look at that straight after the. 0:16:58.495 --> 0:17:02.015 Break doing other house storting the garden, asked Pete for 0:17:02.055 --> 0:17:05.255 a hand. It's a resident builder with Peter Wolfcap call 0:17:05.495 --> 0:17:07.615 eight hundred newstalks. 0:17:07.615 --> 0:17:09.815 The'd be, Yeah, your news talks, they'd be. The lines 0:17:09.855 --> 0:17:12.135 are open. The number to call eight hundred and eighty 0:17:12.415 --> 0:17:16.255 ten eighty twenty six minutes, almost twenty seven minutes after 0:17:16.375 --> 0:17:18.655 six give us a call because we've got some spare 0:17:18.735 --> 0:17:20.855 lines and it's it's going to get a little bit 0:17:20.855 --> 0:17:24.415 busy later in the show. So just before the break, 0:17:24.575 --> 0:17:29.455 this text came through morning Peak. In the current economic climate, 0:17:29.495 --> 0:17:32.815 what would you expect to pay hourly for a tradesman carpenter? 0:17:33.135 --> 0:17:35.815 I'm not asking what you think that they're worth, And 0:17:35.855 --> 0:17:38.535 then he goes on to explain, I mean, in good times, 0:17:38.575 --> 0:17:40.735 they're all worth a million dollars an hour. So when 0:17:40.775 --> 0:17:44.095 times aren't good, what would be a realistic rate dot 0:17:44.135 --> 0:17:50.415 dot dot thirty five dollars an hour. No, I mean, look, 0:17:50.455 --> 0:17:56.295 I'm sort of there's so many variables right with this, 0:17:56.455 --> 0:18:00.975 But my experience at the moment is typically like, even 0:18:01.015 --> 0:18:05.575 if I'm running a job and I'm getting guys in 0:18:05.655 --> 0:18:09.895 to do the work for me or with me, then 0:18:10.255 --> 0:18:13.815 you know, I mean, you charge out rates for someone 0:18:13.815 --> 0:18:16.695 who is self employed. So if you're ringing up and 0:18:16.735 --> 0:18:21.895 you're saying to an LBP trades person, so I qualified 0:18:21.935 --> 0:18:24.455 trades person, Hey, look, I need you to come around 0:18:24.615 --> 0:18:28.895 and we're going to knock the deck down and rebuild it. Right, 0:18:28.935 --> 0:18:31.375 So they're going to turn up. They are LBP, they've 0:18:31.375 --> 0:18:34.255 got all the year, they're going to work in accordance 0:18:34.255 --> 0:18:37.335 with the legislation. They're self employed. Maybe they bring with 0:18:37.415 --> 0:18:40.975 them one other person. I mean, you've got to be 0:18:41.015 --> 0:18:46.215 talking sixty seventy dollars an hour for the lead trades person, 0:18:46.615 --> 0:18:51.095 and they're probably going to charge out there, let's say, 0:18:51.135 --> 0:18:53.895 young fella at I don't know forty five fifty bucks 0:18:53.935 --> 0:18:57.295 an how they might be paying them twenty five thirty. 0:18:57.935 --> 0:19:02.495 It just it's so variable at the moment. And then 0:19:02.735 --> 0:19:05.135 I mean, I think I made this comment actually last 0:19:05.175 --> 0:19:08.215 week or the week before, and people piled in on 0:19:08.255 --> 0:19:11.215 the texts in terms of you know, when times are tight, 0:19:11.455 --> 0:19:15.775 do you do the consumers expect that hourly rates will drop. 0:19:16.535 --> 0:19:18.775 The really challenging thing from that, from the other side 0:19:18.815 --> 0:19:21.455 of it as a tradesperson, as a business owner, is 0:19:21.495 --> 0:19:25.215 that in many cases, your costs don't drop right. You're 0:19:25.335 --> 0:19:28.135 still paying your accountant, you're still paying your subscriptions, you've 0:19:28.175 --> 0:19:30.415 still got your insurance to cover. It's still at your 0:19:30.455 --> 0:19:33.015 vehicle insurance to cover. You've still got the replacement of 0:19:33.055 --> 0:19:35.855 tools and equipment, you've still got your LVP rates to pay, 0:19:35.895 --> 0:19:39.295 and all the rest of it. So I guess in 0:19:39.495 --> 0:19:44.695 good times you can. And scarcity we're talking about it yesterday. 0:19:45.495 --> 0:19:48.615 You know, in scarcity, obviously rates there's pressure on rates, 0:19:48.615 --> 0:19:51.895 and rates tend to go up, and when times are 0:19:52.415 --> 0:19:55.535 right now, it's not that busy to be fair, so 0:19:55.615 --> 0:19:57.575 we'd expect rates to go down. But I mean thirty 0:19:57.575 --> 0:20:00.375 five bucks an hour. If I was in that situation, 0:20:00.415 --> 0:20:02.255 if I was ringing and I was looking for someone 0:20:02.255 --> 0:20:05.535 who essentially was going to control the job, who was 0:20:05.575 --> 0:20:09.535 fully qualified, I know that wouldn't cut it. If I 0:20:09.735 --> 0:20:12.655 was running a gang of guys and I was looking 0:20:12.695 --> 0:20:15.775 for let's say, labor only carpenters, that all I required 0:20:15.775 --> 0:20:19.015 of them is that they rock up every morning at 0:20:19.015 --> 0:20:21.255 seven point thirty and they work till five. They've got 0:20:21.255 --> 0:20:24.175 their basic kit, they don't have to run the job, 0:20:24.215 --> 0:20:28.215 they don't have to supervise anything. Then maybe those rates 0:20:28.215 --> 0:20:31.855 still seems a little bit like to be fair. Certainly 0:20:32.055 --> 0:20:34.895 a couple of years ago, you'd struggle to find someone 0:20:34.935 --> 0:20:37.895 to come and work for you labor only if that 0:20:37.975 --> 0:20:40.175 was the rates you were paying. But look, in the end, 0:20:40.415 --> 0:20:42.935 all of these things are up for negotiation, right, And 0:20:43.015 --> 0:20:44.775 I've always thought too, there's a bit of a difference 0:20:44.815 --> 0:20:48.455 between let's say, getting someone to come for a relatively 0:20:48.735 --> 0:20:52.855 short job. This has always been the argument as to 0:20:52.895 --> 0:20:58.015 why rates for plumbers and electricians and so on are higher. 0:20:58.135 --> 0:21:01.215 Sometimes it's around qualification. Sometimes it's around the fact that 0:21:01.255 --> 0:21:04.055 they are not spending a long time on a job. 0:21:04.095 --> 0:21:07.615 Whereas you know, if you're doing an extens to your 0:21:07.655 --> 0:21:09.575 house and you've got an hourly rate for your carpenter, 0:21:09.895 --> 0:21:12.655 they might be there for four months, right, So for 0:21:12.775 --> 0:21:17.535 that person every day every week for four months, I 0:21:17.535 --> 0:21:20.855 know I've got work. So you go, okay, well, maybe 0:21:20.895 --> 0:21:23.655 I can shave an hour or two off my hourly 0:21:23.735 --> 0:21:27.215 rate because I know that I'm getting paid for forty 0:21:27.335 --> 0:21:29.775 forty five, maybe even fifty hours a week for the 0:21:29.815 --> 0:21:33.255 next six weeks or eight weeks, ten weeks, twelve weeks, 0:21:33.255 --> 0:21:35.975 whatever it's going to be. That's how I've always run it. Oh, 0:21:36.055 --> 0:21:38.335 eight hundred and eighty ten eighty Another quick one. Actually, 0:21:38.335 --> 0:21:40.415 this is a really interesting one. I got schooled on 0:21:40.495 --> 0:21:43.535 this a little while ago as well. What size deposit 0:21:43.575 --> 0:21:47.055 should I give on a twenty nine thousand dollars roofing job? 0:21:48.255 --> 0:21:53.415 Very good question. I have been fairly critical around and 0:21:53.975 --> 0:22:00.415 cautious around tradespeople builders in particular asking for large deposits 0:22:01.255 --> 0:22:04.655 on jobs, whether it's a small job or a large job, 0:22:05.295 --> 0:22:08.055 particularly in that media size thing. So again, let's go 0:22:08.135 --> 0:22:10.015 back to the deck thing. So you've got a deck 0:22:10.055 --> 0:22:13.575 that you need rebuilding. It's worth about twenty five thousand dollars. 0:22:13.895 --> 0:22:15.935 And the builder says, yeah, I can start next week, 0:22:15.975 --> 0:22:18.415 but I need a twelve and a half thousand dollars 0:22:18.655 --> 0:22:21.775 deposit on a twenty five thousand dollar job. I would 0:22:21.815 --> 0:22:26.855 be suspicious of that, right, I can't see any reason. Well, 0:22:26.855 --> 0:22:28.415 I can see a number of reasons why they might 0:22:28.455 --> 0:22:31.135 want a deposit like that. None of them are particularly good, 0:22:31.135 --> 0:22:34.295 to be blunt, And this came up when I was 0:22:34.295 --> 0:22:37.095 doing a panel discussion, and I said, look, I'm really 0:22:37.135 --> 0:22:40.655 suspicious of sort of hefty deposits for trades people. And 0:22:40.695 --> 0:22:42.895 a roofer rang up and said, okay, let me tell 0:22:42.935 --> 0:22:47.895 you the way that it goes with roofing. So I've 0:22:47.895 --> 0:22:49.695 got a project at the moment where I'm going to 0:22:49.775 --> 0:22:51.975 need to do a reroof on behalf of the client. 0:22:52.135 --> 0:22:54.735 So if I contact a roofer and say can you 0:22:54.775 --> 0:22:56.655 give me a price on that, they come back. Let's 0:22:56.895 --> 0:22:59.455 pick a figure out of the air, twenty grand. It 0:22:59.495 --> 0:23:01.055 won't be twenty grand, it'll be more than that. But 0:23:01.135 --> 0:23:04.135 let's say it's twenty grand, and I go, okay, that's reasonable. 0:23:04.535 --> 0:23:07.215 You're a good trades person, right, what's the chances are 0:23:07.295 --> 0:23:09.535 there going to say ten grand? And the reason that 0:23:09.575 --> 0:23:11.215 they will, and this is what the ruf HA said 0:23:11.215 --> 0:23:14.855 to me, is that as soon as the job's accept it. 0:23:14.935 --> 0:23:18.415 So let's say I'm the client, rufer comes, I've chosen 0:23:18.815 --> 0:23:22.535 color and profile and a date, and so that rufer 0:23:22.575 --> 0:23:25.935 then goes to the manufacturer, the person who's actually going 0:23:26.015 --> 0:23:29.055