1 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Business of Tech powered by two Degrees Business. 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: I'm Peter Griffin, and today we're diving into one of 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: the most urgent challenges facing our planet, the massive carbon 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: footprint of concrete. Now, cement which goes into concrete is 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: responsible for around eight percent of global CO two emissions. 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: That's more than the entire aviation industry, so it's huge. 7 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: But change is in the air. My guest, Zorina Bosover, 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: co founder with Matt Kennedy Good of Auckland based startup Neocrete, 9 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: is working on a breakthrough that could dramatically reduce emissions 10 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: from concrete production. Instead of just tweaking the old cement recipe, 11 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: they're leveraging volcanic ash, a material quite plentiful here in 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: New Zealand and which the Romans use for their famously 13 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: durable structures. They're adding a proprietary chemical activator to that 14 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: to replace carbon intensive cement. Now this technology can slash 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: carbon emissions bay up to fifty to sixty percent in 16 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: the lab. According to Neocrete, the goal is to completely 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: eliminate those emissions that currently exist from cement production by 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven in the research setting, and by twenty thirty. 19 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: In real world construction. 20 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: Now, if we're serious about moving to a low emissions economy, 21 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: changing the way we make concrete is one of the 22 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: biggest levers we can pull. Concrete is quite literally the 23 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: foundation of modern life, used in everything from high rises 24 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: to highways. Neocrete just won the inaugural Pineal Innovation Award 25 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: from the Pineal Business Association, which gives them access to 26 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,559 Speaker 1: free advice from ice House Ventures and Outset Ventures, both 27 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: of which are based in Pineal. It comes just as 28 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: Neocrete is about to embark on Series A fundraising, so 29 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: it's really well timed for them. Before we get started, 30 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: I thought when I listened back to the interview, it 31 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: might be useful just to explain the difference between cement 32 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: and concrete, which are not actually the same things. 33 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: Now. 34 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: Cement, often called Portland cement, is a sort of fine 35 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 1: powder that acts as a binder when it's mixed with concrete. Concrete, 36 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 1: on the other hand, is a composite material made by 37 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: combining cement, water, and aggregates like sand and gravel. In 38 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 1: other words, cement is a compound of concrete, but concrete 39 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: is the final product used in construction, so With that 40 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: in mind, here's Zorena Besova on the quest to revolutionize 41 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: construction worldwide with the use of low carbon cement. Sorena, 42 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: welcome to the business of tech. 43 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 2: How are you doing great? 44 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, Peter, really excited to catch 45 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 3: out with you again. 46 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: It is it's been a few years. 47 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: I was actually working at Callahan Innovation doing some work 48 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: on really innovative startups at the time, and that's where I. 49 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: First came across neocrete. 50 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: Probably might have just been before COVID, So it's a 51 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: lot of water under the bridge, a lot of concrete unfortunately, 52 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: has been used since then, and you're still tackling this 53 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 1: big issue and have made some pretty good progress on 54 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: the issue of our concrete use and how carbon intensive. 55 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: It is all over the world. 56 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: I think that the headline figure is still accurate. Around 57 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: eight percent of global CO two emissions come from the 58 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: production of concrete. 59 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: Is that accurate? 60 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, A production of cement of cement, yes, And that 61 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 3: is because to produce cement we use a lot of 62 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 3: fossil fuels and so partly that's the reason why soil 63 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: carbon intensive, and the other part is because the chemistry 64 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: of cement contains to in it, so it is released 65 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 3: during the manufacturing process. 66 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think at the heart of it so 67 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: called clinker, which is an industry term for it. So 68 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: this is at the heart of cement. It involves heating 69 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: limestone to what four hundred and fifty degrees celsius. That's 70 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: pretty hot. So then obviously to maintain that and to 71 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: have big furnaces that are doing that, that's hugely energy intensive, 72 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: isn't it. 73 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 3: It is And basically cement was invented when the humanity 74 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 3: discovered fossil fuels and managed to now achieve those kind 75 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 3: of temperatures and that's like, okay, if we heat it 76 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 3: after these extreme temperatures, then we produce this amazing building 77 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 3: material that can set fast and help us build bridges 78 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 3: and tunnels and high rise buildings. 79 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been incredible. 80 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: The metropolis you see in any countries, cities of ten 81 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: million people or above, wouldn't be possible without this revolution 82 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: in cement and concrete productions. So it's been responsible for 83 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: the advancement of society in the last one hundred years. 84 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: The flip side of that, obviously, is this little problem 85 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: with emissions and CO two emissions in particular, which is 86 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: the real serious one. 87 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: So what's the state of play. I mean, you've got 88 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: neocrete here. 89 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: There are other startups in New Zealand and around the 90 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: world tackling this issue. But in terms of our overall 91 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: approach to emissions, are the big concrete makers making any 92 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: inroads so far? Are there technologies and efficiencies that they've 93 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,559 Speaker 1: been able to introduce into their process to start chipping 94 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: away that eight percent? 95 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: Yet? 96 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 3: Well? Yes, Fortunately there are a lot of initiatives around 97 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 3: the world to tackle the huge problem. It's also a 98 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 3: huge market, so no wonder. There's a lot of competition 99 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 3: around the world, which is a good thing, we believe. 100 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 3: But they're basically three different ways to tackle it. One 101 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 3: is to sweep the fossil fuels heating out for for 102 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 3: those furnaces. For more for less carbon intensive energy sources 103 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 3: or electric furnaces are being introduced. The other way is 104 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 3: to actually capture all the CEO two that gets or 105 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 3: most of the SEER two that gets emitted at the 106 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 3: end of the cemine production process. And lastly is to 107 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 3: actually replace cement with the low carbon materials. And that's 108 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 3: where neocre neucrete technology lies, and there are issues or 109 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 3: big challenges with all three of these approaches. We're trying 110 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 3: to change a huge global industry as very costly and 111 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 3: very slow, and all of them, all of the other 112 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: alternatives require significant capital infrastructure changes, significant investments in it. 113 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 3: Our technology is different because we actually remove or significantly 114 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 3: reduce the need for processing of raw materials and we 115 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 3: turn the raw materials into cement using our activator, which 116 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 3: is an additive that we're basically blend with those raw, 117 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 3: low cost, low carbon materials and turn them into cement 118 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 3: without the need for this bulky, costly and carbon intensive infrastructure. 119 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: Wow. 120 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: Okay, So in terms of the raw materials you're talking 121 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: about there, what are you actually using Because the core 122 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: ingredient in cement, what is it? Typically we talk about 123 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: Portland cement, I think, which is one of the main 124 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: types of cement that is used in construction around the world. 125 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: What's that actually made from? What's the core ingredient there? 126 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: And what are you using as an alternative? 127 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 3: Yes, ament is typically made of limestone, clay and a 128 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: little bit of gypsum. So limestone chemical formula is calcium 129 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 3: SOO three, so it is heated and that furnaces to 130 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 3: extreme temperatures and that's when c R two gets released 131 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 3: and we get calcium oxide that is used for clinker production. 132 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: So we don't use limestone. So we can actually use 133 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 3: limestone as a filler as well, but we basically use 134 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 3: volcanic ash, and this is the material. They're called natural 135 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 3: pozzlans and the name comes from Italy where the Romans 136 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 3: discovered amazing binding properties of those materials and then they 137 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 3: turn them. They use them before cement was invented. That's 138 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 3: what was used previously in concrete and that's what we 139 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 3: mainly used. We can activate it further with our technology 140 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 3: and turn that volcanic ash into a better alternative for cement. 141 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: We can also work with activate waste materials from other 142 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 3: carbon intensive industries like coal production for power plants. It's 143 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 3: called fly ash. There's waste and slag. But they have 144 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 3: been already used in constructions for some time outside of 145 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 3: New Zealand, mainly. 146 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: So when you go to Herculaneum and Pompeii and Italy, 147 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: those beautiful buildings that have been unearthed from the volcanic ash, 148 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: those buildings were actually made from volcanic ash as well. 149 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and you can see how durable they are and 150 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 3: how much longer they stay. And the biggest thing is 151 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 3: because that material being natural and not highly processed, it's 152 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 3: not in conflict with the environment. So modern cemine based 153 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 3: concrete is always in conflict with the environment. So things 154 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 3: like even sea or tow or seawater or any rainwater 155 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: eventually destroys the structure of concrete and then gets to 156 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 3: steel reinforcement and then it can really deteriorate. So pozzolanic concrete, 157 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 3: that's why we're big advocates of that, is actually in 158 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 3: harmony with the environment, and water can actually make it stronger. 159 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 3: So that is the big secret of durability of pozzolanic 160 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 3: or Roman concrete that we're definitely using for our modern technology. 161 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: So you've got that aspect of it, the raw materials, 162 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: how you're processing it. Take us through that if you can. 163 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: What are you doing differently about the processing of it. 164 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 3: So usually to turn the raw materials into something useful 165 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 3: for concrete or like turn it basically cement, it is 166 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 3: a glue that holds all the sand and aggregates together. 167 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 3: So to turn something into the glue, usually the raw 168 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 3: materials are heated to stream temperatures or ground to really 169 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: really fine powder, which we do we use chemistry, so 170 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 3: we produce our really small additive which is edited only 171 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 3: it's three percent of total semontitious material to the volume 172 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 3: of that material, and using chemistry, it actually turns the 173 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 3: raw material that's with low processing material that's only ground 174 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: to a certain particle size, not super fine particle size, 175 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 3: and turns that material into cemine because our particles are 176 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 3: with a very high surface charge that gets transferred to 177 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 3: all the whole volume of the semlititious material. So we 178 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 3: actually activate cement in simltitious materials like volcanic ash without 179 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 3: the need for heat. 180 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: I guess the big advantage we have here is we 181 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: have a lot of volcanic ash. 182 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: Or is it that simple? 183 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: I mean, are there lots of deposits of this that 184 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: are easily mineable and useful for the concrete industry. 185 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 3: Absolutely, they are easily available in New Zealand and around 186 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 3: the world, and they're already being mined and being used 187 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 3: for some low value materials like cat litter for example, 188 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 3: or VA filtering, so they're already being used. So it's 189 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 3: just really hard a specially New Zealand to make use 190 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 3: of them as an alternative to cement because they're not 191 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: highly reactive in New Zealand. Comparatively, they're not very old. 192 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: You've got this chemical additive that you've developed, you know, 193 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: years ago, now that's readily available, You've got the raw materials, 194 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 1: you've got lots of experience now and actually making this concrete. 195 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: In terms of your tests, what is the sort of 196 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: the emission savings that you are seeing now? And you've 197 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: probably been through a few iterations of the technology since 198 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: I spoke to you last, but I think you were 199 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: talking at the time about maybe twenty percent saving and 200 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: emissions from concrete. Have you managed to improve on that? 201 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, that's a very good memory. We can now 202 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 3: get to depending on the material, we can get to 203 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 3: fifty or sixty percent reduction in carbon and concrete and 204 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 3: we're not stopping there. We're on track to completely replace 205 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 3: cement and carbon emissions associated with concrete by twenty twenty seven. 206 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 3: That's in the lab and by probably twenty thirteen in 207 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 3: real life building. 208 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: Well. So it's really advancing in terms of the technology 209 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: and at the efficacy of it. You've also had some 210 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: big wins in terms of sort of showcase buildings or 211 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: concrete structures that you've worked on. Tell us about some 212 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: of those you've been working with Cayanga Aura for instance. 213 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 3: Yes, and that was one of the earlier projects we 214 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 3: had that was worth Kanga Aura and Concrete Tech and 215 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 3: it was a passive house for social housing in south 216 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 3: off in Auckland, South Auckland, and they used neocrete panels 217 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 3: pre cast panels and the cement production from memory was 218 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 3: around twenty five percent And that was a successful project 219 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 3: and at the time, twenty twenty five percent reduction in 220 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 3: cement was quite significant. 221 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's tax payer money ultimately that's going into 222 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: those developments. So if they can scale that up and 223 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: use that across their build program, that's not only emission 224 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: savings but cost savings as well. 225 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. I believe kang Or is the largest developer in 226 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 3: New Zealand, so that would be great that or we 227 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 3: can achieve a bigger scale if that project gets rolled 228 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 3: out or used as an example for the other development. 229 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 230 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: Is there a particular type of construction that your product 231 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: is really suitable for? Is it really sort of buildings 232 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: or would this work for bridges and tunnels and highways. 233 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 3: The good thing is a universal product. It can be 234 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 3: used for anything. We can actually achieve higher savings, carbon 235 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: savings and cost savings for higher grades of concrete, which 236 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 3: are usually typically used for infrastructure projects like tunnels and bridges. 237 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 3: The thing is that until we get to that point, 238 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: they're also associalated with high risk, so that's not where 239 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 3: the customers would want to trial a new product. So 240 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 3: before we get to that point, we would probably til 241 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 3: it or and we have already child it lower risk 242 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 3: project like foundations and slabs and roading, and that's what 243 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 3: we have been doing in the last few years in 244 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 3: New Zealand and overseas. 245 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I guess you know it's a valid concern. 246 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: If you're building a highway like Transmission Galley down here 247 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: in Wellington, that's a multi billion dollar project. If you're 248 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: underlaying that with concrete, you want to make sure that 249 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: concrete is going to last forty or fifty years. So 250 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: building that confidence in the concrete industry that this alternative 251 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: is going to be as durable over the long term, 252 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: that's a big priority for you. 253 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and we're actually not concerned with the durability for 254 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 3: the reasons that we discussed earlier. But he is convincing 255 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 3: the industry that it is safe to use concrete with 256 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 3: significantly less cement. That's a big change in perception. The 257 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 3: whole industry is actually built around the performance of cement. 258 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 3: My dad who is our head of R and D, 259 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 3: he is a scientist and an engineer. He loves cement 260 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 3: and then everything around it. I think it's really hard 261 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 3: to convince engineering community that actually there are better alternative 262 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:06,359 Speaker 3: to semine. 263 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: How are you doing convincing the industry that this is 264 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: a viable alternative. I think you've been working with the 265 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: cement companies here but also internationally. Now you've got partnerships 266 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: as well. 267 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 3: Yes, so we've won a few challenges, international challenges run 268 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 3: by Global Cement and Concrete Association, for example, where we 269 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 3: were selected as one of the four finalists amongst seventy 270 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 3: applicants around the world, and that was to decobnize the 271 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 3: industry using materials just like ours. And we are now 272 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 3: working with a consortium made of global cement manufacturers representing 273 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 3: around thirty percent of global cement market. They're sending us 274 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 3: there or they've already seen us all of their materials 275 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 3: around the world. Pozzolanic Materials mainly natural that are really 276 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 3: hard to activate, and we're doing testing for them to 277 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 3: activate it without technology. 278 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: They obviously want a source of this poslanic material that's 279 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: close to them, so they need to make sure that 280 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: your additive and your process works on the raw materials 281 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: that they have easily accessible. 282 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 3: And yeah, and the exciting finding out of that project 283 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 3: was that the activator that we developed using New Zealand's 284 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 3: volcanic ash was actually applicable to all other different sources 285 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 3: of volcanic ash around the world. So we use the 286 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 3: same exact activator across a multiple materials from around the 287 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 3: world that are otherwise really hard to activate. 288 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: Excellent. 289 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: So it sounds like you're on the cusp really of 290 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: you know what they call the scale up by guests, 291 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: going from startup to having revenue coming in from cement 292 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: makers and that, but actually getting your product out there 293 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: and widely used around the world. 294 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 2: How far into your startup journey are you now? 295 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 3: Well, we're officially no longer pre revenue. So we have 296 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 3: first customer in South East Asia that is a ready 297 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 3: mixed company that runs six ready mix plants, and we're 298 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 3: just seen our second shipment earlier this week. A second 299 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 3: shipping container overseas, and they have been successfully trialing our 300 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 3: product with their waste material because they have a lot 301 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 3: of fly ash. They have a big oil refinery that 302 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 3: is powered by a coal power plant, right, and so 303 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 3: they have a lot of that ungraded, low quality, very 304 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 3: cheap fly ash that otherwise gets dumped by the sea, 305 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 3: and so they really are keen to get rid of it. 306 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: And without our technology they managed to only replace around 307 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 3: five percent of cement with their flyash. With the neocrete activator, 308 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: they are now replacing forty three percent of cement with 309 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 3: three percent activator and forty percent flyish. So not only 310 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 3: we're managing to save se or two from cement, we're 311 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 3: also recycling the waste product that otherwise it's really hard 312 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 3: to recycle. And we're also saving them some costs because 313 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 3: that material is very cheap and it's abundant. 314 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 2: That's incredible. 315 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, it is unfortunately abundant in industrial facilities 316 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: around the world. In China, which is responsible for i 317 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: think fifty percent of cement production, that there's a lot 318 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: of fly ash sort of there. So to be able 319 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: to apply your additive to that as a huge advantage. 320 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 3: It would be a great advantage. We also don't want 321 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 3: to focus too much on recycling the materials. I think 322 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 3: it's a medium term strategy to get rid of that waste. 323 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 3: As long as, like while all those common intensive industries 324 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 3: transition to cleaner ways of generating power or producing steel, I. 325 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: Think that's the way to go. We've got to mitigate 326 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: these emissions. And you know, the whole carbon capture and 327 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: story seeing has been so slow to get moving, it's 328 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: very difficult to scale it up. So I think you're 329 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: on the exact right track in terms of your capital 330 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: journey and that you've raised some money. Are you where 331 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: you at in your sort of fundraising cycle. 332 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 3: Yes, so we are about to start series A raise 333 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 3: and my co founder Matt is going to be leading that. 334 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 3: And yeah, we raised four million US plus some non 335 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 3: deluged funding with from government and other organizations for the 336 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 3: means of grants. So that was set round two years 337 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 3: ago now, almost two years ago now, and yeah, so 338 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 3: we're about to start serious a round and that round 339 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 3: last time was very successful where we were oversubscribed. We 340 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 3: try to fit in like the investors in New Zealand, 341 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 3: but it was led by a big investor from overseas, 342 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 3: wave Maker from Singapore. 343 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: That's great to have that international interest. It seems like 344 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: the capital market for startups is actually pretty healthy. We've 345 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:59,239 Speaker 1: seen three companies It was track Suit, Halter and there 346 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 1: was another one, Project Works in Wellington. Between them raised 347 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: like a couple of hundred million dollars. That was mainly 348 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: down to halt Her. They had a huge raise. But 349 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of international vcs partnering with the 350 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: likes of ice House and at who may have been 351 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: in on previous rounds. So it seems like the appetite 352 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: is there, and particularly in the clean tech space. That 353 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: is an area sort of coming out of deep tech, 354 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,959 Speaker 1: which can take longer and is a bit riskier. But 355 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: we definitely seem to have a growing scene here in 356 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: New Zealand that's attracting capital and interest from overseas. 357 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 3: Yes, but also we still believe that the VC climate 358 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 3: is not perfect toy it. It's not as healthy as 359 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 3: it used to be maybe five six years ago. Also 360 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 3: with the new US administration, there is a focus away 361 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 3: from clean technology and we definitely noticed that. But I 362 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 3: think it's actually to an extent beneficial for companies like 363 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 3: neo creed because maybe obviously all this US competition and 364 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 3: clean technology almost had unlimited amount of funds in terms 365 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 3: of grants. It will be hundreds of millions of dollars 366 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 3: that was giving them a non dilute of funding. And 367 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 3: some of that technology I believe will never work because 368 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 3: it doesn't make sense scientifically. There's a lot of hype 369 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 3: around it. So I think with the reduction in total 370 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 3: volume of available investments, the investments are going to be 371 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 3: more into the technologies that are not that capital intensive 372 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 3: but can bring revenue and return much faster, So people 373 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 3: will be more probably thorough in choosing clean technologies to 374 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 3: invest in. 375 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 2: You talked there. 376 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: About non dilute of funding, so essentially that's government grants 377 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: and there have been under the Biden administration as part 378 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: of his stimulus package post COVID put a lot of 379 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: money into clean text, literally billions of dollars in non 380 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: dilute of meaning that you don't have to give away 381 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: party your shareholding in the company to get that money. 382 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: And Wellington recently the Big Clean Tech conference run by 383 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: Creative HQ. Some great startups were showcasing their work there 384 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: and there were complaints there about we don't have access 385 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: in New Zealand too much in the way of non 386 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: dilute of funding, especially with the demise of Callahan Innovation. 387 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: I guess that's a concern for yourself and people coming 388 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: up behind you in clean tech as well. 389 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 4: Yeah. 390 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And we definitely made the most of those grants 391 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 3: when they were available, and some of the grants are 392 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 3: still available like Oro here for example. We managed to 393 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 3: get that and so we're very grateful that happened, and 394 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: it actually happened in critical time for the company to 395 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 3: be able to prove our technology and before the VCS 396 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 3: would even look at us. So I hope there'll be 397 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 3: some alternatives that will still help startups and that non 398 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: dilute of funding as much as possible. I don't think 399 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 3: we'll ever be able to compete with the US and 400 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 3: you're in terms of you know, government grants, but what 401 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 3: it means it will teach our businesses to probably be 402 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 3: more efficient with the funding that we do get, and 403 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: that will be our competitive advantage because we actually don't 404 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 3: have that unlimited the unlimited resources. 405 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: That's a good point, Max Oorshowsky said last week on 406 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: the episode featuring Zeno astronautics. He was basically saying, when 407 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,239 Speaker 1: vcs look at New Zealand startups, they go, wow, these 408 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: are incredibly lean companies capital efficient. So to some extent, 409 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: you know, that is an advantage. It shouldn't be the 410 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: case that our startups are funded to a lesser extent 411 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: or have to take less for their shareholding. But it's 412 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: definitely a string to our bow. 413 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe it's just a first step really in 414 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 3: the journey. And as you said, than being more efficient 415 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 3: with the funds, then you can survive a few like turmoils, 416 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 3: you know, if anything happens. So I think it teaches 417 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 3: us a valuable lesson that. Yeah, the politics changing and 418 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 3: the move or shift away in some countries from clean 419 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 3: technology and commitments to decarbonizing the industries. The thing is 420 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 3: that our technology is not just clean and green, it 421 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 3: actually is better and more efficient and less costly. So 422 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 3: then we can survive all of those different political ways. 423 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: I think it's a phase we're going through, but we'll 424 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: get back on track. 425 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 2: We'll have to get back on track. 426 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: Look at you know, the summer, the northern hemisphere summer, 427 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: the heat waves are increasing in frequency and intensity. It's 428 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: becoming evident now to so many people that we need 429 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: to do something about CO two emissions. And here we 430 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: have eight percent coming from the production of concrete. And 431 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: there are solutions actually and more easy to apply than 432 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: in some other industries where it's quite tricky. You know, 433 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: aviation fuel, replacing that in a sustainable way is a 434 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: tricky one. But concrete is bigger than the entire aviation 435 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: industry in terms of its carbon footprints, so it's a 436 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:00,959 Speaker 1: no brainer. 437 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 3: And yeah, and I actually believe that decarbonizing industries can 438 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 3: absolutely start with a cement and concrete manufacturing because as 439 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 3: you said, at least it's one product, you know, and 440 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 3: once we replace some me you know, it's going to 441 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 3: be such a massive for a billion tons of cement 442 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 3: get produced every year, so if we replace that, it's 443 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 3: going to be a massive, massive wind for us. All 444 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 3: some countries are mother shifting away. Some countries are not, 445 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 3: like Europe. That's why you're off is our next big market. 446 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 3: That's where're targeting at co founders already there. 447 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: Right, you just won a prize from the Parnell Business Association. 448 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 2: That's really cool. 449 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: And actually, you know, there's a lot of startups clustered 450 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: and Parnell because Callahan is there and there's Outset Ventures 451 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: and that, so that's actually. 452 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 2: A big deal. 453 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: You know, there's some stiff competition in that part of town. 454 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: So you got some i think funding and some mentoring 455 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: from ice House Ventures as on offerers. Well, how are 456 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: you going to take advantage of that? 457 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, we're very happy to have won that award 458 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 3: from a Panel Business Association. We actually brought the whole 459 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 3: team into that final when it was the announcement, so 460 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 3: it was a big event for the whole team. So 461 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 3: we're very grateful to be recognized here in Pinel, in 462 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 3: our home. Every little counts for a startup, So the 463 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 3: free advice we're going to receive from ice House and 464 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 3: Outset is valuable, especially now when we are about to 465 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 3: start raising again. It's probably the best advice we can get. 466 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 3: We can get from the biggest we see in the country, 467 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 3: so that is amazing. And yeah, the whole team was 468 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 3: celebrating because we don't celebrate wins enough and that was 469 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 3: one of those days that. Yeah, we definitely made the 470 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 3: most of it. 471 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like you're on the right track. Good 472 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: luck with the fundraise series A. There's been some good 473 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: ones in New Zealand recently, so I hope that rubs 474 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: off a bit on neo crete as well. 475 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 2: And good luck for particularly for. 476 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: Your spearhead into Europe, where I say there is a 477 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: heck of a lot of opportunities. So good luck and 478 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: thanks for coming on the business of tech. 479 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 3: Great, Thank you very much, Peter. 480 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: So that's Serena from Neocrete on a very worthy mission 481 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: to cut emissions from cement and hopefully they're on the 482 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: cusp of raising the capital that will get them to 483 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: the next level. Now, a few weeks back I came 484 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: across another startup called Rock Extract. It's only been around 485 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: about six months. It's a spin out from what was 486 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: GNS Science, now known as Earth Sciences New Zealand, and 487 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,959 Speaker 1: is founded by doctor Peter Rendall. Rock Extract was one 488 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: of the startups showcased in Creative HQ's Aurora Clean Tech Accelerator. 489 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: They all pitched their technology at an event in Wellington 490 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: I attended. Peter Rendall was there. He's an experimental hydro 491 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: thermal geochemist based in Taupo. He works on geothermal energy 492 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: stuff up there. He didn't go into much detail about 493 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: Rock extracts technology. But here's what he did have to say. 494 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 4: My name is Peter Rendell. I'm a senior scientist at 495 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 4: Genet Science and the founder of rock Extruct. At Rock Extruct, 496 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 4: we develop a completely new type of cement. This is 497 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 4: not a petitive or a supplement, but a completely new material. 498 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 4: Our material have a similar performance, costs and scalability to 499 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 4: normal cement, and it also takes many other boxes which 500 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 4: the industry is looking into. But more importantly, our process 501 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 4: completely removes the need for calcination and by doing that 502 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 4: we can slash carbon emissions by more than ninety percent. 503 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: So clearly a different approach to niocrik being employed by 504 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: doctor Rendall at Rock Extract, and its very early days. 505 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: The company isn't looking to raise capital at the moment, 506 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: but it has been selected as one of the startups 507 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: in the Global Cement and Concrete Associations in a Vandi 508 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: Open challenge where they'll gain access to the labs and 509 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: plants off the world's biggest concrete makers, so that's going 510 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: to be really useful for them. It's great to see 511 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: too promising Kiwi startups with differing approaches to the same 512 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: problem carbon intensive cement production. I wish to find us 513 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: all the greatest success. We really need them to make 514 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: a serious dent, literally in one of the hardest problems around. 515 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: That's all for this week's episode of the Business of Tech. 516 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: Head over to the podcast section at Businessdesk dot co 517 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: dot nz to find the show notes about these companies 518 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: and my weekly tech reading list as well. 519 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for tuning in. 520 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe in 521 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: your favorite podcast app or on iHeartRadio and join us 522 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: next week as we explore more tech driven solutions to 523 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: the world's toughest problems. 524 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 2: I'll catch you then,