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Speaker 1: Kielder.

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Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Over the

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Speaker 2: next week, big sporting gambles years in the making are

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Speaker 2: about to have their payoff. On Saturday, Auckland FC, our

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Speaker 2: newest A League football team, will play their debut game

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Speaker 2: against the Brisbane Raw and then on Monday, Rising Formula

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Speaker 2: One star Liam Lawson makes his debut as a full

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Speaker 2: time driver for Red Bull at the US Grand Prix.

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Speaker 2: It's an exciting time for Kiwi Sport and shows the

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Speaker 2: changing potential of where we can succeed today. On the

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Speaker 2: Front Page we dig into these exciting developments with News

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Speaker 2: Talk ZB Sport news director Clay Wilson and senior sports

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Speaker 2: reporter and podcast host Elliott Smith. Elliott New Zealand isn't

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Speaker 2: the sort of country where you typically have more than

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Speaker 2: one team in an Australian league.

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Speaker 1: Right, so why was Auckland DEFC even created money?

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Speaker 3: Money is basically it for the A League and a

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Speaker 3: very attractive proposition given by Bill Foley and his investment

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Speaker 3: team to get an expansion team. A league has not

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Speaker 3: been shy about wanting to expand and wanting to increase

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Speaker 3: their reach around Australia but also in New Zealand. And

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Speaker 3: Bill Foley has got the kind of pockets, the billionaire

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Speaker 3: pockets that can serve as the A League and set

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Speaker 3: up a team in Auckland. So it all comes back

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Speaker 3: to the Dolls and what they're able to do and

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Speaker 3: for the A League it opens up Auckland as a

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Speaker 3: commercial market to the A League. Now Wellington has trucked

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Speaker 3: along the Phoenix themselves pretty well without any sort of

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Speaker 3: silverware success. But what Auckland does big commercial market, it's

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Speaker 3: where a lot of the New Zealand businesses are headquartered

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Speaker 3: and opens up that commercial market more so than what

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Speaker 3: Wellington's able to do.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned, yeah, he's an American billionaire.

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Speaker 2: Does he have any any connections to New Zealand, Like,

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Speaker 2: is he one of those people that owns a giant

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Speaker 2: farm in the White and Upper somewhere?

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Speaker 3: He owns a winery? Yeah, several, at least one, quite

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Speaker 3: a few wineries. So he's connected their regular visitor to

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Speaker 3: New Zealand and so he's had that connection. He's talked

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Speaker 3: a bit about building a stadium, so he seems like

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Speaker 3: he's in this for the long time rather than just

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Speaker 3: a short while, which is a positive if you don't

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Speaker 3: want just a head and run investor that's going to

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Speaker 3: pull their money out after two years when things go awry.

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Speaker 3: He seems like he's in it for the long haul.

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Speaker 4: This is an exciting time to be involved with football

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Speaker 4: in Oakland. You know, we're going to create pathways for

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Speaker 4: young boys and girls to not only play football at

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Speaker 4: a professional level as them mature, but I also have

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Speaker 4: a pathway to go to the Scottish Premier League, to

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Speaker 4: go to the League One in France, to go perhaps

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Speaker 4: to the Premier League with AFC Bournemers. And we're proud

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Speaker 4: of this plan that we've put together and that we're

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Speaker 4: about to implement. That's what Auckland FC is all about.

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Speaker 4: It's about creating these pathways, about being entertaining and about

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Speaker 4: being part of the community.

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Speaker 1: What are their chances really.

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Speaker 3: They've got a pretty good roster, but sometimes in the

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Speaker 3: A league that doesn't mean very much at all. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: a good roster gets you in mid table, sometimes it

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Speaker 3: gets you towards the top of the table, and sometimes

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Speaker 3: it gets you right down the bottom. I guess that

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Speaker 3: the proof will be as the season goes on, how

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Speaker 3: they build and how they come together as a team.

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Speaker 3: They've got the right parts. They've got a lot of

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Speaker 3: exciting players from both New Zealand, former internationals and current internationals,

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Speaker 3: and also some from abroad as well, so I think

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Speaker 3: it's a pretty good mix. And what it has shown

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Speaker 3: is that there is enough players to go around when

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Speaker 3: you're adding some international players, some All Whites returning home

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Speaker 3: that across the All Whites Storrycross Aalkland and the Wellington Phoenix,

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Speaker 3: there are enough to have two professional sides in New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: Whether they can sustain it commercially and fan wise, I

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Speaker 3: think is the big question around it, because football is

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Speaker 3: not the kind of sport in New Zealand that it

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Speaker 3: is abroad. The Wellington Phoenix have had a good backing

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Speaker 3: from their city and from others around the country for

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Speaker 3: some time, but whether it's enough to be commercially sustainable

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Speaker 3: as a fan driven enterprise, I think the jury is

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Speaker 3: still out. There's gonna be a lot of hype around

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Speaker 3: this first game this weekend, around the first derby's but

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Speaker 3: as the season goes on, will those fans continue to

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Speaker 3: show up, Will they show up again in round twenty.

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Speaker 3: Will they show up again in round one twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: five to twenty six. That's the real question for me

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Speaker 3: whether it can be sustained.

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Speaker 2: Well, what does the arrival of Auckland FC actually mean

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Speaker 2: for the Wellington Phoenix. Are they happy about having a

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Speaker 2: new local team to compete against?

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Speaker 1: Not particularly.

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Speaker 3: I don't think though, because it cuts off their commercial

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Speaker 3: opportunities to an extent as well, that they can't go

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Speaker 3: up to all Aukland. It will go to big businesses

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Speaker 3: and go we're the only football team. If you want

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Speaker 3: to tap into football in this country, you have to

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Speaker 3: go to the Wellington Phoenix and have to be sponsored

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Speaker 3: or part of our sponsorship team. So that cuts off

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Speaker 3: the point of difference to an extent. And now there's two,

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Speaker 3: so that is an issue for them that they've got

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Speaker 3: to try and figure out. They've had Auckland as a

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Speaker 3: semi base or a second base for a few years

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Speaker 3: now and they've taken games to Eden Park very successfully

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Speaker 3: got some decent crowds there. They can't really do that anymore.

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Speaker 3: We can't go up to the home base of where

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Speaker 3: another team is based now, so they have to look

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Speaker 3: at christ Church and other markets to try and extend

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Speaker 3: their reach around there. So I think they'll enjoy the

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Speaker 3: derby games, but whether they actually enjoy the presence of

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Speaker 3: a second New Zealand team in the A League, I'm

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Speaker 3: not entirely sure. I think the jury's out for the

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Speaker 3: Phoenix in that one.

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Speaker 1: Clay, have you got your kit ready?

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Speaker 5: No, but I have got tickets for a game because

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Speaker 5: I would like to get along early on and see

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Speaker 5: what it's all about. And I think early on you

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Speaker 5: are going to see this first game is going to

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Speaker 5: be pretty close to sold out, if not sold out,

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Speaker 5: because of the hype around it being the first game,

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Speaker 5: and you want us to get on board with that

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Speaker 5: early and see what it's what it's all about in football,

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Speaker 5: of course as a fans sport, and the fans themselves

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Speaker 5: have known for being such great supporters. You know, we've

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Speaker 5: seen what the small contingent comparatively to other football clubs

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Speaker 5: around the world at the Phoenix, the Yellow Fever. You know,

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Speaker 5: they can make a lot of noise and make a

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Speaker 5: great atmosphere and that in that stadium down there in Wellington.

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Speaker 5: So I think what we will get, you know, a

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Speaker 5: great atmosphere early on and mount Smart of course, the

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Speaker 5: Home of the Warriors is renowned for that kind of thing.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, we'll get along and see what it's all about.

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Speaker 5: But it will be so dependent on how they go

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Speaker 5: results wise, because as Elliott says, it's all very well

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Speaker 5: first game, these first derby's with the Phoenix, but as

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Speaker 5: the season goes on, if the results aren't coming then,

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Speaker 5: as with any sport, fans are going to dwindle slightly

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Speaker 5: and that's when the struggles are going to come on.

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Speaker 5: So get in there early and let's see like they've

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Speaker 5: got They've got, they've got a roster to do it,

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Speaker 5: but whether they can in their first season just remains

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Speaker 5: to be seen.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's going to be ultimately a good thing

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Speaker 2: for football in New Zealand right to have more pathways

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Speaker 2: into a professional sporting career. I mean, rugby is our

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Speaker 2: national sport, but I think football is really popular with

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Speaker 2: kids at the moment.

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Speaker 5: Clay right, well, football quite a long time ago, and

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Speaker 5: Elliott will correct me if I'm wrong here, but at

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Speaker 5: a junior level went past rugby in terms of numbers,

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Speaker 5: not necessarily at a youth or secondary school level, and

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Speaker 5: that may have changed since, but the likes of football

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Speaker 5: and basketball were really boomed in the last ten to

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Speaker 5: fifteen twenty years. So those players of course now are

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Speaker 5: coming through to be young adults, teenagers, players that want

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Speaker 5: to perhaps or are talented enough to move into the

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Speaker 5: professional ranks. Of course, if there's only one professional team here,

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Speaker 5: you only have one option. Now they instead of maybe

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Speaker 5: ten spots on a roster for one team, you have

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Speaker 5: twenty or twenty five spots that those talented young New

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Speaker 5: Zealand players have the ability to go into. So yeah,

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Speaker 5: of course that's a good thing. Whether the Phoenix are

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Speaker 5: so stoked about that because now there's competition for that

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Speaker 5: young talent coming through and you know, of course that

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Speaker 5: young talent is good for them in a way. You

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Speaker 5: don't pay a lot for it either, so you know,

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Speaker 5: you keep a bit of money in the coffers to

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Speaker 5: go splash abroad. But definitely for those young players coming

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Speaker 5: through a good thing to have that extra team as

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Speaker 5: a pathway to the next step to Europe, to the

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Speaker 5: United States, to these kind of other markets.

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Speaker 1: Well, there have been talks for ages about a second

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Speaker 1: New Zealand based NRL team, Hey Elliott, if Auckland FC

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Speaker 1: is a success, could that inspire more double ups of

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Speaker 1: teams in the years to comet.

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Speaker 3: Possibly. Yeah, either think there'll be a close eye or

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Speaker 3: an eye have been kept on it by the NRL

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Speaker 3: as to how this rivalry develops. And I think the

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Speaker 3: NRAL are keen to get that point where they can

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Speaker 3: have a second New Zealand team. There's a bit of

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Speaker 3: water to go under the bridge, but rivalry is so

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Speaker 3: key in sport at the moment and always has been.

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Speaker 3: But you can sell TV deals on the back of that,

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Speaker 3: commercial deals, various things on that, and I think they'll

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Speaker 3: be looking to see whether two teams are sustainable in

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Speaker 3: the market. So I think there'll be a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a test case for the A League, which is

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Speaker 3: with AUDUISPEICCT smaller in terms of reach and interest and

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Speaker 3: the NRL is on both sides of the Tasman But

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Speaker 3: if they can prove it can be done at the

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Speaker 3: A League level, then it'll give the NRAL some idea

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Speaker 3: as to whether the Warriors can be joined by Saya

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Speaker 3: South Island team. And there's I think three competing beds

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Speaker 3: or ideas and they've all got various ideas as to

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Speaker 3: how it should be approached. You and twenty thirty has

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Speaker 3: sort of been airmarked as a possible entry date for

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Speaker 3: a South Island based team. But I think there will

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Speaker 3: be some signs as to whether it's commercially sustainable, fans

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Speaker 3: sustainable from these A League teams over the next few years,

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Speaker 3: because if it flops like previous A League previous teams

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Speaker 3: in Auckland have done, and the National Soccer League as

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Speaker 3: it was called in the earliest ration of the A

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Speaker 3: League that the Knights were in the competition for a

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Speaker 3: wee bed and the Kings before then. So I think

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Speaker 3: there's going to be some signs there. For Pete of

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Speaker 3: Landy's in the NROL, they go, hey, this is actually workable.

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Speaker 3: There is an untapped market in New Zealand where we

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Speaker 3: can put some more sport on and create some more teams.

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Speaker 3: So as I said at the top, it's all about

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Speaker 3: money and if they can prove it can be done,

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Speaker 3: then I think there'll be some real interest around that.

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Speaker 2: Now onto another sporting event I guess to watch out

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Speaker 2: for this weekend onto Liam Lawson Clay.

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Speaker 1: This has been years in the making, hasn't it. I

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Speaker 1: feel like we've been talking about him returning to Formula

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Speaker 1: one for donkeys years. So why is now the time frame?

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Speaker 5: Well, it's been a bit of a I don't know

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Speaker 5: if saga is the right word, but that's sort of

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Speaker 5: how it's felt, especially in the last kind of six

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Speaker 5: to twelve months. Of course, he made that replacement stint

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Speaker 5: last year when Daniel Ricardo got injured and he did

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Speaker 5: so so well in those five races that the expectation

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Speaker 5: was that he was going to get a full time

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Speaker 5: drive for this year. That of course never eventuated and

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Speaker 5: he had to step back into that reserve role. But

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Speaker 5: really this is something that Liam Lawson has probably been

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Speaker 5: working towards on the verge of for the last four

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Speaker 5: five years really. Of course, you know, starting out and

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Speaker 5: his younger years back here, but then went to Europe

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Speaker 5: I think about sixteen or seventeen years old with the

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Speaker 5: backing of a large number of kind of motorsport enthusiasts

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Speaker 5: here in New Zealand and then has worked his way

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Speaker 5: to this point and really in the last kind of

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Speaker 5: a few months. You know, Formula one is a cutthroat business.

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Speaker 5: As always, generally what happens is that someone has to

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Speaker 5: not perform for you to perform, and Liam's spoken about

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Speaker 5: this already this week and Daniel Ricardo was brought into

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Speaker 5: that second seat at Racing Balls, which is the second

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Speaker 5: team for Red Bull there effectively their junior team, to

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Speaker 5: see if he could rediscover that form he had early

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Speaker 5: in his career and get back to that Red Bull

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Speaker 5: main team that of course never eventuated, and they've decided

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Speaker 5: to bring Liam in. And I think the timing of

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Speaker 5: this is really telling as to what Liam's future looks

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Speaker 5: like next year because they haven't confirmed a deal, but

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Speaker 5: we're going to see over this next six races what

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Speaker 5: he's going to do, and then they're going to make

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Speaker 5: a decision, I think off the back of that, you.

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Speaker 6: Know, it's it's the six rounds left of the season,

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Speaker 6: so I've come in at a difficult time. It's going

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Speaker 6: to be a very challenging point obviously. You know, all

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Speaker 6: these guys have done three quarters of a season now,

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Speaker 6: so I have to try and try and compete with

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Speaker 6: that now at tracks that I haven't done as well,

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Speaker 6: so it's going to be challenging. I've spoken to my parents,

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Speaker 6: I've spoken to everybody that's that's been behind me on

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Speaker 6: this journey, and it's very very special. But we don't

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Speaker 6: have much time to really let this say, can we

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Speaker 6: get get right to work?

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Speaker 2: Well, there must be so much pressure on him to deliver,

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Speaker 2: given how long he's waited for this, and the fact

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Speaker 2: that he's replacing Daniel Ricardo.

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Speaker 5: Well, we saw what he could do last year stepping

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Speaker 5: in at much shorter notice, and he did very well.

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Speaker 5: He clearly is someone who can adapt very quickly, has

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Speaker 5: the skills, he has the talent. So I think you

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Speaker 5: know he's coming into it this time having already gone

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Speaker 5: through that and show and proven that he's a driver

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Speaker 5: that I can get into a Formula one car pretty

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Speaker 5: quickly and get up to speed with the rest of

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Speaker 5: the field. The difference this time, however, is that last

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Speaker 5: time there was real not I mean, he won't agree

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Speaker 5: with this, but the perception was there wasn't that much

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Speaker 5: pressure on him because he was born in so late notice,

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Speaker 5: he was only in there as an injury replacement. It

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Speaker 5: was like, well, let's see what he does. We're not

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Speaker 5: really expecting anything of him. But as I've already alluded to,

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Speaker 5: these last six races this time around are really a

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Speaker 5: test case for what Liam's going to be doing next year,

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Speaker 5: and so that there really is pressure on to perform

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Speaker 5: and perform well if he wants to ensure that he

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Speaker 5: a gets a full time drive with Racing Bulls that

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Speaker 5: second team, but there's a lot of talk about whether

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Speaker 5: he might even be in contention for the proper Red

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Speaker 5: Bull team and that seat alongside Max Forsteppin because his

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Speaker 5: pressure on Sergio Pirezho's the second driver there. So you know,

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of opportunity here for Liam and of

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Speaker 5: course with that comes pressure. But you know he said

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Speaker 5: multiple times and even again this week that anytime you

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Speaker 5: step into a Formula One car you know it could

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Speaker 5: be your last because it's such a cutthroat competition industry.

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Speaker 5: The pressure is there regardless, but definitely this time around

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Speaker 5: different than it was last year.

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Speaker 1: What will success actually look like for him?

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Speaker 5: Well, the problem this weekend for Liam is that he's

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Speaker 5: inherited a grid penalty for the US Grand Prix, which

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Speaker 5: has come from Daniel Ricardo via the team because the

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Speaker 5: teams had to replace the engine in the car, and

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Speaker 5: how the rules work, you've only get so many engines

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Speaker 5: for the season, so he wherever he qualifies, he's going

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Speaker 5: to be ten places back from that and chances are

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Speaker 5: you know for a car that are like he's going

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Speaker 5: to be driving, getting into the top ten is a

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Speaker 5: really really good effort. Chances are he's going to be

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Speaker 5: starting at the back of the field, so perhaps that

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Speaker 5: brings expectation down a little bit, but they so closely

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Speaker 5: monitor everything these drivers do. It's not like he's not

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Speaker 5: under scrutiny because he's starting at the back of the field.

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Speaker 5: If that's the case, if he starts at the back,

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Speaker 5: if he can work his way, say inside the top fifteen,

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Speaker 5: maybe just outside the points the top ten drivers in

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Speaker 5: each race score points, then that would be a really

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Speaker 5: great effort. Because you have to remember in Formula one

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Speaker 5: not all things are equal when it comes to cars,

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Speaker 5: and that racing Bulls car has had its struggles this year.

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Speaker 1: Elliott will you but you'll be watching his something else

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Speaker 1: this weekend.

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Speaker 3: Right, I'll be watching the MPC semifinals Chelsea. I'm looking

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Speaker 3: forward to this Wellington and Waikato and on Saturday night

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Speaker 3: before that, they have plenty Canterbury on Saturday afternoon. A

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Speaker 3: couple of upsets last week in the NPC. It's been

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Speaker 3: a great competition the NPC this year. It's revitalized a

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Speaker 3: little bit around provincial rugby, so or a couple of

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Speaker 3: upsets in the quarter finals, and you're to have these

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Speaker 3: semi finals on a week out from the All Black

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Speaker 3: starting the End of View Tour. Very very exciting looking

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Speaker 3: forward to that.

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Speaker 1: And you'll be looking forward to the All Blacks obviously absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Yes. They start next weekend in Yokohama against Japan, so

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Speaker 3: it starts a really tough five tiss schedule for them.

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Speaker 3: So Japan first, then over to England to play at Twickenham, Ireland,

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Speaker 3: after that France, so three big tests and three weeks

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Speaker 3: and then they finish off the End of View Tour

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Speaker 3: against Italy and Chubrun. And by that point in the

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Speaker 3: season we'll get a read, I think on how this

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Speaker 3: All Blacks team is tracking under Scott Robinson for the

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Speaker 3: first year.

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Speaker 2: Both of you have been covering sport for most of

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Speaker 2: your careers. Are you excited by the fact we're able

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Speaker 2: to talk about some different sports.

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Speaker 1: It's not just rugby or sailing anymore. We're actually seeing

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Speaker 1: some excitement and some movement in different fields.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think that's the way society has kind of gone right.

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Speaker 5: It's allowed more sports to flourish at a junior level

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Speaker 5: and that's now coming through to a senior an elite level.

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Speaker 5: And you know, Elliott might have a slightly different viewpoint.

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Speaker 5: You know, he's obviously our voice of rugby and our

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Speaker 5: rugby commentator and is heavily involved with that. But us

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Speaker 5: in the sports team, you know, we're in the job

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Speaker 5: because we love sport, not just one sport. So for

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Speaker 5: us to be able to come in on any given

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Speaker 5: day and have one of fifteen twenty twenty five sports

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Speaker 5: to talk about as great and quite often some of

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Speaker 5: the best stories, some of the best interviews, some of

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Speaker 5: the best moments in terms of your job, come in

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Speaker 5: these in these minor sports when you least expect it.

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Speaker 5: So you know, the personalities of people are perhaps a

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Speaker 5: little bit more out there those kinds of things. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's great. It's great to have such variety now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it is, and wasn't the case. You know, I

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Speaker 3: think back fifteen twenty years ago, maybe you got a

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Speaker 3: couple of NBA games a week on ESPN. Now you

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Speaker 3: can pretty much watch them all over streaming and then

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Speaker 3: peace heaps on the ESPN. NFL Major League Baseball Formula One.

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Speaker 3: You know, used to be buried in the middle of

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Speaker 3: the knife. You didn't get up and watch it, that

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Speaker 3: was your chance. Now you can see highlights and various things.

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Speaker 3: So what it has done is level the playing field.

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Speaker 3: And that's the challenge for sports like rugby that have

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Speaker 3: had this stranglehold on New Zealand culture for so long

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Speaker 3: is to keep pace with these sports if they want

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Speaker 3: to still be the sport of choice for New Zealand

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Speaker 3: going forward. And I think that's it's a really interesting topic,

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Speaker 3: but it's liveled the playing field in terms of what

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Speaker 3: sports people are interested in.

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Speaker 1: Plan Elliott, thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, no worries.

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Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You

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Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

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Speaker 2: at enzed Herald dot co dot nz. The Front Page

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Speaker 2: is produced by Ethan Seales. Dan Goodwin is the sound engineer.

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Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio

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Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow

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Speaker 1: For another look behind the headlines.