1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty exceptional marketing 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: for every property on the Huddle. 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 2: This even cleared to law and Allie Jones. Hell are 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 2: you too, Colot Claire? Eighteen years for Lauren Dickison? Was 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: she mad or was she bad? 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 3: Well? She was found able to stand trial for these 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 3: three letters. She wasn't fund insane, So I think you'd 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 3: have to say, if you're convicted to murder, there is 9 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 3: an element of bad there. But I think mostly this 10 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 3: is a very, very sad situation. There are absolutely no winds. 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 3: There's nothing except lost for everyone, including her. She has 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 3: lost everything and she knows that, presumably that she was 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 3: fittan trial, she is very aware of what she did 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 3: and the facts that we're reader are just appalling. So 15 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 3: for the whole family, for everyone involved. It is just 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 3: the most unbearable sort of thought. What happened to those 17 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 3: three girls and how any of them get on was 18 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:04,919 Speaker 3: normalized after this? Heaven knows? 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, hard thing to bear. What do you reckon, Ellie? 20 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 4: Well? 21 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 3: I agree with Claire. 22 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 4: I mean, we weren't in the court, we didn't hear 23 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 4: all the evidence, and she was found guilty. What I 24 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 4: found really unnerving and concerning last night with some of 25 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 4: the television coverage where you know, we were hearing from 26 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 4: mental health the experts who talked about the terrible place 27 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 4: that Lauren Dickerson must have been in. I think the 28 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 4: husband may have mentioned this as well. So, you know, 29 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 4: I do agree that that you know, a group of 30 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 4: her peers have found her guilty. But why bring in 31 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 4: the mental health issue there? And is this an entirely 32 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 4: fair sentence for a woman who may have been, you know, 33 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 4: a little unhinged or there being a degree of mental 34 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 4: health issues there? And look, I'd love to have a 35 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 4: long discussion on this too, and I would have loved 36 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 4: to have been in the court for all of it, 37 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 4: because I don't think there's an easy answer. But the 38 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 4: bottom line is she was found guilty by a group 39 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 4: of people who heard and saw all the ever, So 40 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 4: you know, what can you do? 41 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: Do you think Ali that they should have should not 42 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: have brought in the mental health element you mean. 43 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 4: In the post reporting? Yeah, well nothing surprises me anymore 44 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 4: actually on how stuff is reported, Heather, But I think 45 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,279 Speaker 4: it's probably something people were thinking. I found it confusing. 46 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 4: I mean, why bring that in when it's obviously something 47 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 4: that didn't play a part in the decision on the center. 48 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 2: Because is it possible Ali that while the court may 49 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: not have found that she had gone into a place 50 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 2: that was I mean, the court didn't find her insane, right, 51 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 2: but it's still possible that postnatal depression, I mean obviously 52 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: was part of it. 53 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: Right. 54 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: Is that not possible? 55 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: Yeah? 56 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 4: But yeah, but we're not psychiatrists or psychologists or mental 57 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 4: health experts. I mean, as Claire said, no one can 58 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 4: imagine what this has done to the family or I mean, 59 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 4: just watching the story with those little girls was my 60 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 4: heart was breaking. And we're not the experts to answer that, 61 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 4: so we kind of have to trust that the people 62 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 4: representing her in court did all that they could do 63 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 4: to address that. 64 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 3: Is it clear? 65 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 2: Maybe just us trying to understand And I say this 66 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 2: as like myself as a woman who is a mother, 67 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 2: Is it us trying to understand how and God's name 68 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: a mother could do this? 69 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 3: Yeah? And I don't think you probably can. And it's 70 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 3: such a dark place to think of being in that 71 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: you would do that and do it twice again after 72 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 3: killing the first child, you would think something would shake 73 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: you away, But we're not conscious, but it really you know, 74 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 3: the mental health issue is a major but mental health 75 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 3: does not excuse murder. But nothing can ever red help 76 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 3: for the loss of those those children and the terrible, 77 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 3: terrible features for everybody has that hanging over your head 78 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 3: in that family. 79 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely, Okay, we'll take a br and come back with 80 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: you guys, and just to cot urge us a little bit, 81 00:03:58,720 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: the huddle. 82 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: With New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty on parallel reach and results. 83 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,839 Speaker 2: Back with the huddle, Ali Jones cleared to law Ali, 84 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: what do you make of the sentencing changes to really 85 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: pull those sentencing judges at a line? 86 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 4: I think parliaments reacting to what the current governments you know, 87 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 4: has said and made very clear and campaigned on the 88 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 4: lack of consequences for violent crime. And you know what 89 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 4: we've still seeing needs addressing. The thing that I think 90 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 4: they're missing here, and to use one of their phrases, 91 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 4: it needs a laser focused effort from the coalition government 92 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 4: is how are they're going to deal with the increase 93 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 4: in prison population? 94 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 3: You know? 95 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 4: And I would have liked to have heard Paul Goldsmith 96 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,559 Speaker 4: respond to that also, how they're dealing with the urgent 97 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 4: need of breaking some of the generational dysfunction that leads 98 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 4: to you know, generations of families continuing to break the law. 99 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 4: I mean that the poverty, the generational issues that poverty cause. 100 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 4: That's what I'd like to see some long term strategy 101 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 4: thinking on. But overall, they're doing what we said they 102 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 4: were going to do, and I think it's about time 103 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 4: that web was brought back into line. 104 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: You're too right clear, are you into it? 105 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 3: I'll start a game header you can share. 106 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: You can cheer for the crimes going to jail. 107 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 3: Le's okay, Well, I'm not charing for crims. I think 108 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 3: that Parliament has to respond to not just the public moves, 109 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 3: but actually the reality of the type of crime that's 110 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 3: being commission and I think that it's a really good thing. 111 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 3: For example, that if your work at your home are 112 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 3: bound up together, like so many dairy owners, that that 113 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 3: becomes a more serious, almost like a home invasion church, 114 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 3: rather than just a standalone charge of ram rating. And 115 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 3: you know, Parliament has set guidelines before, so for those 116 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 3: who criticize the alteration of them, it's not the first 117 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 3: time that Parliament has set guidelines and it's not for 118 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 3: the judiciary to resile from from the laws that have 119 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: made them this country. So lets just hope that have 120 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 3: some effect. But I agree with Ellie, what will you 121 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 3: do when you have a grownd prison population. Clearly you 122 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 3: drop the idea of cumulative sentences for a whole bunch 123 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 3: of things because you just don't have pasty. That's a 124 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: big worry. 125 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 2: How do you feel, Allie about Chris Hopkins saying that 126 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: Winston Peters is courting the kooka vote by having a 127 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 2: problem with Labour's jack up of an inquiry. 128 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 4: Oh, I gripped my stomach and laughed wholeheartedly when I 129 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 4: heard that. Heather, It's nonsense. Absolutely, I do think though 130 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 4: there's a little bit of perhaps Peters and Seymour wanting 131 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 4: to stick it to Labor. You know, I can see 132 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 4: that that would give them great joy. But I think 133 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 4: the question you have to ask is what is a 134 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 4: review going to achieve? Because if it's the point Fingers 135 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 4: and you know, a portion blame, then I see no 136 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 4: point at all if it's to look at the way 137 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 4: that things could perhaps be done better so the next 138 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 4: time this happens, we can do. 139 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: Kelly, You're not the first person to say this on 140 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: the show. Let me ask you this question. Okay, was erebis? 141 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 2: Was that a royal commission and commission of inquiry? 142 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 4: We are from my recollection? 143 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: Was the point of it to point fingers and a 144 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: portion blame? 145 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 4: I think it depends what the terms of reference to. 146 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: But there's value in that, isn't there? I mean there 147 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 2: is no one actually saying you are responsible for this thing? 148 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, but is that the right place to do it? 149 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 2: I mean I would it's yeah. 150 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 3: No. 151 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 4: Look, I think that the operational, the way something is run, 152 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 4: and the people who are employed and the people who 153 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 4: are employe who employ them, that's where the accountability and 154 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 4: the consequences are. I don't see any point in having 155 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 4: a royal commission on something so that you can blame 156 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 4: someone and point fingers. Sure, there's got to be some accountability, 157 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 4: but you make it general and you also highlight what 158 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 4: needs to be done so it doesn't happen again. That's 159 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 4: the value of a review. 160 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: Okay, And what do you think, Claire. 161 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 3: Well, I have a square velatois said next time, because 162 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 3: I think we have to take the chance while it's 163 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 3: still fresh enough to learn for the future. Because this 164 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: mon't be bad pandemic, that is, we all know them 165 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: now and to actually report for historical purposes too what happened. 166 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 3: It's pretty important to know about the lockdowns, the criteria, 167 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 3: the creation of the circled lobby, which was actually a 168 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 3: very unfair lottery, and to avoid that sort of lack 169 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 3: of compassion coming back into the response. You know, for 170 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 3: Inston Peters there is a degree of settling schools here. 171 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 3: You might recall that he was trespassed from Parliament grounds 172 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 3: for two years for going down and speaking to the protesters. Now, 173 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 3: not all of them were not jobs, but some of 174 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 3: them were. But he was conflectly, as it turned out 175 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 3: later because that Treess Bath notice was overturned. It was 176 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 3: with his lights to go and speak to those people. 177 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 3: So I think it's important to know what are the 178 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 3: what are the boundaries of even the Speaker of our 179 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 3: Parliament who imposed that Tess Path notice on members, well 180 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 3: he was a member of Parliament, but on people legitimately 181 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 3: going about their business. I'm reporters for example, did not 182 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 3: go down. There's a lot of there's an awful lot 183 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 3: of information yet to the surface, and I think the 184 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 3: settling of scores is important to Winston Peters. He does 185 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 3: seem to be somebody with an extant like memory. But 186 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 3: I also do think that for the rest of us 187 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 3: it's important kind of. 188 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 2: If I'm completely honest, I feel like I might have 189 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: a few scores to settle as well. I really appreciate it. 190 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: Love talking to the pair of your clutt or Alie Jones. 191 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to 192 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 193 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.