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Speaker 1: So Europe on the brink jade advance rolls into town,

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Speaker 1: gives them a few home truths. The talks as regards

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Speaker 1: peace and Ukraine appear to possibly involve Europe, possibly not so.

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Speaker 1: The emergency Summitt hillbb A night, former BBC Foreign correspondent

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Speaker 1: Paul Woodsbeck, whether that's Paul, good morning, good morning. You've

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Speaker 1: seen a lot. Is this history in the making.

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Speaker 2: Well, if history has a lot of panic and scrambling

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Speaker 2: and trying to make yourself relevant, then yes, this is

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Speaker 2: Europe completely alarmed by President Trump telephoning the Russian lead

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Speaker 2: of Vladimir Putin, apparently without consulting European allies. And you

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Speaker 2: said in your introduction, will Europe be involved in the talks? Well,

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Speaker 2: apparently they won't, but certainly not as they are getting

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Speaker 2: underway in Saudi Arabia. Now, what's happening in Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 2: is much wider than just a Ukraine piece effort. This

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Speaker 2: is about the US resetting its relations with Russia. But

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Speaker 2: Europeans are worried that this will have huge implications, not

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Speaker 2: just for Ukraine but for European security. They're trying to

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Speaker 2: make themselves relevant. We'll have to see what they come up.

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Speaker 1: The JD Van's comments the other day, the fear within,

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Speaker 1: the problems within, did he have a point?

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Speaker 2: I suppose it depends where you stand on theseues of

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Speaker 2: free speech in a range of European countries, Britain, Germany.

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Speaker 2: He was making a point about Europe's worries over Ukraine. Well,

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Speaker 2: hang on a minute. He's saying, the enemy is really

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Speaker 2: within and it's your own weakness. So these are the

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Speaker 2: kind of almost trolleying comments that President Trump succeeds in making.

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Speaker 2: Very well, it's an attempt to throw the board up

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Speaker 2: in the air and reset the pieces. But certainly doing that,

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Speaker 2: it's very hard to distinguish what is a negotiating tactic

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Speaker 2: on the behalf of the US government and what is

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Speaker 2: a really heartfelt position. But certainly it's having an effect.

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Speaker 2: That's why they're meeting in Paris.

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Speaker 1: Now, does this potentially in bolden Europe and NATO to go.

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Speaker 1: We've been caught badly out here. We need for the

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Speaker 1: future to do something more substantive than what we've been

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Speaker 1: doing or not.

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Speaker 2: Well. The Poonish leaders said that that the countries of Europe,

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Speaker 2: and I suppose that the UK as well UK's geographically

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Speaker 2: in Europe still but not politically. In Europe they will

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Speaker 2: go up there defense spending. But President Zelenski, for instance,

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Speaker 2: says it would take two hundred thousand troops to police

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Speaker 2: the fifteen hundred mile front line if there was a

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Speaker 2: peace agreement. And by the way, the Ukrainians say they

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Speaker 2: can be no peace agreement without them, and they're not

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Speaker 2: at the table. In Saudi Arabia, the former head of

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Speaker 2: the British Army, Lord Dana, says it would take one

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand. Well, Britain's got a pretty hollow army now

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Speaker 2: of seventy six thousand, and Britain, along with France, they're

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Speaker 2: the most effective armies in Europe. Where are these hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand or two hundred thousand going to come from? I

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Speaker 2: saw one estimate from one analyst saying that three brigades

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Speaker 2: or fifteen thousands all that Europe could come up with.

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Speaker 2: And then if Europe does send these troops, is America

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Speaker 2: going to backstop? That is this essentially NATO membership for

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Speaker 2: Ukraine and all but name. These are all questions which

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Speaker 2: I think show the huge mountain the Europeans have to climb.

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Speaker 2: But at the moment, they're just scrambling to become relevant

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Speaker 2: by offering something.

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Speaker 1: Paul, good to have you on the program as always

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Speaker 1: appreciate your time for the BBC Foreign Correspondent, Paul would.

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Speaker 2: It's for more from the My Asking Breakfast.

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