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Speaker 1: The government is still coming under pressure for the decision

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Speaker 1: at the weekend not to recognize a Palestinian state. The

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Speaker 1: Israeli ambassador said the decision SAIDs a very clear message

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Speaker 1: to hum Us. Former Prime Minister Helen Clark says, we're

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Speaker 1: on the wrong side of history. Chris Hopkins is the

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Speaker 1: leader of the Labor Party.

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Speaker 2: Hi, you behire there?

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Speaker 1: Would you have done it?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Absolutely, It's time for New Zealand to take a

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Speaker 2: principled stance and recognize Palestine as our friends in Australia, Canada,

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Speaker 2: the United Kingdom and elsewhere around the world have been doing.

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Speaker 2: Why Ultimately, New Zealand cannot stand by and cannot turn

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Speaker 2: our backs on unfolding in Palestine. It is an unfolding genocide.

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Speaker 2: People are being starved to death. What Israel is doing

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Speaker 2: is totally unacceptable. And not recognizing Palestine simply sending a

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Speaker 2: message to Israel that we are okay with what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: We shouldn't be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but recognizing a Palestinian state, and you know this

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Speaker 1: is not going to stop what Israel's doing, is it.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's being part of an international community that's taking

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Speaker 2: a principled stance. The two state pollution into reality.

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Speaker 1: What's the point in a principled stance when there are

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Speaker 1: things you could actually do to stop it, to stop

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Speaker 1: the war and stop the famine, right putting food in

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Speaker 1: those kids' mouths, punishing Israel with sanctions that would actually

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Speaker 1: make a difference. This is just a symbolic gesture. It

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Speaker 1: makes no difference.

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Speaker 2: We need to do all of those other things as well.

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Speaker 2: The government haven't agreed to sanctions against Israel as our

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Speaker 2: well to the extent that some of our friends around

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Speaker 2: the world have been doing. We need to do that

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Speaker 2: as well. We've got to send a very clear message

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Speaker 2: to Israel that this is not acceptable. I absolutely defended

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Speaker 2: Israel's right to defend itself following those horrific attacks in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three undertaken by hammaf and I continue to

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Speaker 2: defend their right to defend themselves. But this is going

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Speaker 2: way too far.

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Speaker 1: Why didn't you do it when you had the chance?

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Speaker 2: We were going to ultimately we didn't before the election.

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Speaker 2: We had made it clear that we would do so

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Speaker 2: after the election.

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Speaker 1: But why didn't you do it before the election? Loot

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Speaker 1: because that was the weirdest thing. It was weird then

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Speaker 1: and it's weird. Now you stood there and you had

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Speaker 1: a majority. You guys could have done it just like that,

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Speaker 1: but you stood there and said only if you vote us,

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Speaker 1: and will we recognize the state of Palestine.

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Speaker 2: Why. It's something that I had been looking at since

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Speaker 2: I took over from to Sinda as Prime Minister. Ultimately

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Speaker 2: made the decision not to do that, following the Hamaster text, well,

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Speaker 2: following the Humusa texts. I didn't think that that was

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Speaker 2: the right message to send at that time. Why well,

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Speaker 2: because ultimately I don't. I absolutely condemned via text on

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Speaker 2: Israel and it would have.

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Speaker 1: Been seen to be rewarding hermus.

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Speaker 2: Then Ryan, Yeah, and I don't think it would be

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Speaker 2: now it.

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Speaker 1: Would be now they say so, Well, at the.

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Speaker 2: Moment, we're rewarding Israel for doing something which is undoubtedly

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Speaker 2: in violation of an international law. I don't think that's

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Speaker 2: the kind of company that we should be aiming to keep.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Chippie, thanks very much, appreciate you. Ti'm Chris Hepkins,

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Speaker 1: Labor Party leader. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,